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Re: [thewire] atonal rap/hip-hop

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  • Manuel Cabrera
    Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama and sound art, but have
    Message 1 of 20 , May 5, 2002
      Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama and sound art, but have been discovering things quite slowly. It began with an obsession with good radio drama, which has led me a few other things like Miranda July (whom I
      now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken word, not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any recommendations of good spoken word and sound art using words would be greatly appreciated.


      manuel cabrera

      Fractured Music wrote:

      > Check out the cLOUDDEAD collective. Very odd and very esoteric on Mush records. Web site is www.dirtyloop.com. They may have their own website as well but I'm not sure.Some of the members have had solo stuff as well. Dose One, of cLOUDDEAD has released some very odd poetry backed very dark dissonant noise.
      >
      > -Varjak
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Manuel Cabrera
      > To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 12:30 AM
      > Subject: [thewire] atonal rap/hip-hop
      >
      > An esoteric request: does anyone know of any atonal hip-hop/rap out in
      > the greater musical universe? this is an absolutely serious request. thanks
      > in advance,
      >
      > semiote
      >
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    • Fractured Music
      Check out the cLOUDDEAD collective. Very odd and very esoteric on Mush records. Web site is www.dirtyloop.com. They may have their own website as well but I m
      Message 2 of 20 , May 5, 2002
        Check out the cLOUDDEAD collective. Very odd and very esoteric on Mush records. Web site is www.dirtyloop.com. They may have their own website as well but I'm not sure.Some of the members have had solo stuff as well. Dose One, of cLOUDDEAD has released some very odd poetry backed very dark dissonant noise.

        -Varjak
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Manuel Cabrera
        To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 12:30 AM
        Subject: [thewire] atonal rap/hip-hop


        An esoteric request: does anyone know of any atonal hip-hop/rap out in
        the greater musical universe? this is an absolutely serious request. thanks
        in advance,


        semiote


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      • Jason Witherspoon
        ... Check out Carl Hancock Rux, Mike Ladd, Ursula Rucker, Mystic, Saul Williams, et al.-- -- Jason Witherspoon ICQ #62837760
        Message 3 of 20 , May 5, 2002
          At 3:32 PM -0700 5/5/02, Manuel Cabrera wrote:
          > Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am
          >interested in things that straddle the line between spoken
          >word/drama and sound art, but have been discovering things quite
          >slowly. It began with an obsession with good radio drama, which has
          >led me a few other things like Miranda July (whom I
          >now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken
          >word, not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any
          >recommendations of good spoken word and sound art using words would
          >be greatly appreciated.
          >
          >
          > manuel cabrera

          Check out Carl Hancock Rux, Mike Ladd, Ursula Rucker, Mystic, Saul
          Williams, et al.--
          --


          Jason Witherspoon
          ICQ #62837760

          ---------
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        • M. Pathos
          atonal: Applied to a style of composition in which there is no conscious reference to any scale or tonic. (Simpson and Weiner (1991), The Compact Oxford
          Message 4 of 20 , May 5, 2002
            atonal: Applied to a style of composition in which there is no conscious
            reference to any scale or tonic.
            (Simpson and Weiner (1991), The Compact Oxford English Dictionary -- Second
            Edition. Clarendon Press: London)

            As the majority of rappers and hip-hop producers are unschooled in
            traditions which impart cognizance of tonal or scalar structures, most
            hip-hop is "atonal": there is "no conscious reference to any scale or
            tonic".

            But you're probably just looking for stuff that sounds especially fucked-up.
            If this is the case, I recommend Techno Animal's "the brotherhood of the
            bomb" or any album by the Ice collective (especially "bad blood"). If you
            want more pop sounds, try anything on the quality Definitive Jux label. If
            you want mediocrity masquerading as profundity, try cLOUDDEAD.

            _________________________________________________________________
            Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
          • ninplant@xs4all.nl
            ... i recommend black sifichi - Tick on Noise Museum - The black Dog + Black Sifichi = Unsavory Products on Hydrogen Dukebox Sensational heavyweighter on
            Message 5 of 20 , May 6, 2002
              >At 3:32 PM -0700 5/5/02, Manuel Cabrera wrote:
              > > Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am
              > >interested in things that straddle the line between spoken
              > >word/drama and sound art, but have been discovering things quite
              > >slowly. It began with an obsession with good radio drama, which has
              > >led me a few other things like Miranda July (whom I
              > >now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken
              > >word, not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any
              > >recommendations of good spoken word and sound art using words would
              > >be greatly appreciated.
              > >
              > >
              > > manuel cabrera

              i recommend
              black sifichi
              - "Tick" on Noise Museum
              - "The black Dog + Black Sifichi = Unsavory Products" on Hydrogen Dukebox

              Sensational "heavyweighter" on Word Sound
              kathy acker with hal willner "redoing childhood" on kill rock stars
              edwin torres "holy Kid" on kill rock stars
              roberto valenza "musical secretions" on buddhaville
              brion gysin "self portrait jumping" on made to measure

              there are many more i could recommend but these are off the top of
              what's left of my head.

              bart / wreck this mess / am*dam
            • Dr Joel Blaiberg
              Another shout out here for cLOUDDEAD and almost anything involving Dose One. Check out the Boom Bip & Dose One - Circle album (soon to be re-released in the UK
              Message 6 of 20 , May 6, 2002
                Another shout out here for cLOUDDEAD and almost anything involving Dose
                One. Check out the Boom Bip & Dose One - Circle album (soon to be
                re-released in the UK on Leaf) and the Rope Ladder 12 album on Mush.
                Also, for french speakers, I've found the latest TTC - Ceci N'Est Pas Un
                Disque album to be quite intriguing...

                Joel

                P.S. For a copy of my latest CDs for sale list drop me an e-mail....

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Manuel Cabrera [mailto:semiote@...]
                Sent: 05 May 2002 23:32
                To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [thewire] atonal rap/hip-hop


                Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am
                interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama
                and sound art, but have been discovering things quite slowly. It began
                with an obsession with good radio drama, which has led me a few other
                things like Miranda July (whom I
                now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken word,
                not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any recommendations of good
                spoken word and sound art using words would be greatly appreciated.


                manuel cabrera

                Fractured Music wrote:

                > Check out the cLOUDDEAD collective. Very odd and very esoteric on Mush
                records. Web site is www.dirtyloop.com. They may have their own website
                as well but I'm not sure.Some of the members have had solo stuff as
                well. Dose One, of cLOUDDEAD has released some very odd poetry backed
                very dark dissonant noise.
                >
                > -Varjak
              • stevolende
                ... interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama and sound art, I was reminded of Lee ranaldo s solo stuff earlier this week I ve
                Message 7 of 20 , May 6, 2002
                  --- In thewire@y..., Manuel Cabrera <semiote@e...> wrote:
                  > Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am
                  interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama
                  and sound art,



                  I was reminded of Lee ranaldo's solo stuff earlier this week
                  I've heard some good beatniky readings over guitar noise from him.

                  what reminded me of him was the tracks on the 2 versions of the Dylan
                  uNcut tribute cds
                  one has the version of sitting on the Fence by Thurston, Kim and Epic
                  which I think was specially done for a Dylan compi 15 or so years
                  back (this disc's blurb says its exclusive to this disc)

                  the other disc has a sopolo Lee track -i'm not sure what only that
                  its a dylan cover.

                  But I do recall a ccd I had way back with Lee doing spoken word about
                  recording with the Jajouka in their Morroccan village.
                  Unfortunately thats now long gone.
                  as is the other industrial compi I had with his solo stuff on.
                  imagine 'In The Kingdsom #41'(or whatever the number) from Sonic
                  youth's Evol without the rest of Sonic Youth
                  Stevo
                  Np Embryonic Journey Jefferson Airplane
                • pm.carey@utoronto.ca
                  ... Ha!!! ;-) Still wondering why everyone loves Anticon/cDEAD/Dose et al soooo much. They have moments, but ... -Patrick NP: Edgard Varèse - Complete
                  Message 8 of 20 , May 6, 2002
                    * "M. Pathos" <mpathos@...>:
                    >If you want mediocrity masquerading as profundity, try cLOUDDEAD.

                    Ha!!! ;-) Still wondering why everyone loves Anticon/cDEAD/Dose
                    et al soooo much. They have moments, but ...


                    -Patrick


                    NP: Edgard Varèse - "Complete Works"
                  • gradyfinklemyer
                    What happened to your big dramatic exit? ... am ... has ... would
                    Message 9 of 20 , May 6, 2002
                      What happened to your big dramatic exit?

                      --- In thewire@y..., Jason Witherspoon <arzachel@s...> wrote:
                      > At 3:32 PM -0700 5/5/02, Manuel Cabrera wrote:
                      > > Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I
                      am
                      > >interested in things that straddle the line between spoken
                      > >word/drama and sound art, but have been discovering things quite
                      > >slowly. It began with an obsession with good radio drama, which
                      has
                      > >led me a few other things like Miranda July (whom I
                      > >now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken
                      > >word, not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any
                      > >recommendations of good spoken word and sound art using words
                      would
                      > >be greatly appreciated.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > manuel cabrera
                      >
                      > Check out Carl Hancock Rux, Mike Ladd, Ursula Rucker, Mystic, Saul
                      > Williams, et al.--
                      > --
                      >
                      >
                      > Jason Witherspoon
                      > ICQ #62837760
                      >
                      > ---------
                      > --- ---
                      > ----O----
                      > ---------
                      > --- ---
                      > ---------
                    • gradyfinklemyer
                      Yeah, most of it ain t tonal, cause they ain t schooled in nuthin . If youse guys aks me, it s all atonal, and none of it weren t never no good. Thas juss my
                      Message 10 of 20 , May 6, 2002
                        Yeah, most of it ain't tonal, cause they ain't schooled in nuthin'.
                        If youse guys aks me, it's all atonal, and none of it weren't never
                        no good. Thas juss my 'pinion, howevah!

                        --- In thewire@y..., "M. Pathos" <mpathos@h...> wrote:
                        > atonal: Applied to a style of composition in which there is no
                        conscious
                        > reference to any scale or tonic.
                        > (Simpson and Weiner (1991), The Compact Oxford English Dictionary --
                        Second
                        > Edition. Clarendon Press: London)
                        >
                        > As the majority of rappers and hip-hop producers are unschooled in
                        > traditions which impart cognizance of tonal or scalar structures,
                        most
                        > hip-hop is "atonal": there is "no conscious reference to any scale
                        or
                        > tonic".
                        >
                        > But you're probably just looking for stuff that sounds especially
                        fucked-up.
                        > If this is the case, I recommend Techno Animal's "the brotherhood
                        of the
                        > bomb" or any album by the Ice collective (especially "bad blood").
                        If you
                        > want more pop sounds, try anything on the quality Definitive Jux
                        label. If
                        > you want mediocrity masquerading as profundity, try cLOUDDEAD.
                        >
                        > _________________________________________________________________
                        > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
                        http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
                      • Jason Witherspoon
                        ... I just *knew* a big, greasy Ralph2391311 would plop out the minute I opened my mouth. Bugged that I m back, Ralph? -- Jason Witherspoon ICQ #62837760
                        Message 11 of 20 , May 6, 2002
                          At 1:44 AM +0000 5/7/02, gradyfinklemyer wrote:
                          > What happened to your big dramatic exit?

                          I just *knew* a big, greasy Ralph2391311 would plop out the minute I
                          opened my mouth. Bugged that I'm back, Ralph?
                          --


                          Jason Witherspoon
                          ICQ #62837760

                          ---------
                          --- ---
                          ----O----
                          ---------
                          --- ---
                          ---------
                        • reddye6
                          ... Intermedium Records is a great place to jump in for contemporary radio drama, though most of it is in German (except for the great, great Beckett release
                          Message 12 of 20 , May 6, 2002
                            >In general, I am interested in things that
                            >straddle the line between spoken word/drama
                            >and sound art

                            Intermedium Records is a great place to jump in for contemporary radio
                            drama, though most of it is in German (except for the great, great
                            Beckett release "... the whole thing's coming out of the dark"). Then
                            there's the radio dramas of Ammer and Einheit, the latest one being
                            "Crashing Aeroplanes." I also like the soundtracks to Derek Jarman's
                            films, which often include a healthy portion of dialogue.

                            Other spoken word releases that stand out for me, off the top of my
                            head, include Steven Jesse Bernstein's "Prison" (great voice, kind of
                            like a young Burroughs) and Jeff Noon/David Toop's "Needle in the
                            Groove," and I'd even throw in Current 93's "I Have A Special Plan For
                            This World."

                            A place to dig through a goldmine of sound poetry/spoken word mp3s is
                            at www.ubu.com. There's a ton: Beckett, Burroughs, Artaud, Giorno
                            Poetry Systems stuff. Just go there.
                            Mike
                          • gradyfinklemyer
                            Yo G, I couldn t care less whether you stay or go. It s been kinda lackin on the hip hop tip since you left. It s been kinda lackin on the humour tip since
                            Message 13 of 20 , May 6, 2002
                              Yo G, I couldn't care less whether you stay or go. It's been kinda
                              lackin' on the hip hop tip since you left. It's been kinda lackin' on
                              the humour tip since ralph left.

                              --- In thewire@y..., Jason Witherspoon <arzachel@s...> wrote:
                              > At 1:44 AM +0000 5/7/02, gradyfinklemyer wrote:
                              > > What happened to your big dramatic exit?
                              >
                              > I just *knew* a big, greasy Ralph2391311 would plop out the minute
                              I
                              > opened my mouth. Bugged that I'm back, Ralph?
                              > --
                              >
                              >
                              > Jason Witherspoon
                              > ICQ #62837760
                              >
                              > ---------
                              > --- ---
                              > ----O----
                              > ---------
                              > --- ---
                              > ---------
                            • gradyfinklemyer
                              I recommend Pierre Henry s Fragments Pour Artaud, which is bumpin in my crib right now. Great mix of spoken word and out sonics. Too bad I don t speak frog.
                              Message 14 of 20 , May 6, 2002
                                I recommend Pierre Henry's Fragments Pour Artaud, which is bumpin'
                                in my crib right now. Great mix of spoken word and out sonics. Too
                                bad I don't speak frog. Oh well, it adds nice atmosfear to the
                                sonical proceedings. Also worth a shout out is Pierre Henry's
                                Apocalypse de Jean. And if any of you gangstas is lookin' to get the
                                box sets that have come out, Dusty Groove gots em' for about $35!
                                Whee!

                                --- In thewire@y..., "reddye6" <reddye6@a...> wrote:
                                > >In general, I am interested in things that
                                > >straddle the line between spoken word/drama
                                > >and sound art
                                >
                                > Intermedium Records is a great place to jump in for contemporary
                                radio
                                > drama, though most of it is in German (except for the great, great
                                > Beckett release "... the whole thing's coming out of the dark").
                                Then
                                > there's the radio dramas of Ammer and Einheit, the latest one being
                                > "Crashing Aeroplanes." I also like the soundtracks to Derek
                                Jarman's
                                > films, which often include a healthy portion of dialogue.
                                >
                                > Other spoken word releases that stand out for me, off the top of my
                                > head, include Steven Jesse Bernstein's "Prison" (great voice, kind
                                of
                                > like a young Burroughs) and Jeff Noon/David Toop's "Needle in the
                                > Groove," and I'd even throw in Current 93's "I Have A Special Plan
                                For
                                > This World."
                                >
                                > A place to dig through a goldmine of sound poetry/spoken word mp3s
                                is
                                > at www.ubu.com. There's a ton: Beckett, Burroughs, Artaud, Giorno
                                > Poetry Systems stuff. Just go there.
                                > Mike
                              • M. Pathos
                                I guess what bugs me about those groups, and disappoints me about rap/hip-hop in general, is its mistaken emphasis: wordplay by itself isn t enough; while
                                Message 15 of 20 , May 7, 2002
                                  I guess what bugs me about those groups, and disappoints me about
                                  rap/hip-hop in general, is its mistaken emphasis: wordplay by itself isn't
                                  enough; while concentrating on spitting the most preposterous permutations
                                  of polysyllables, most rappers forget the need to actually have something
                                  worth saying. "Rap" could be a wonderful form for telling stories.
                                  Continuously hearing about how rich, or broke, the rapper is, is not enough.
                                  >
                                  >

                                  Ha!!! ;-) Still wondering why everyone loves Anticon/cDEAD/Dose
                                  et al soooo much. They have moments, but ...


                                  -Patrick


                                  NP: Edgard Var�se - "Complete Works"






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                                • M. Pathos
                                  Thanks to whoever posted the address. This is a fantastic site for sound poetry and spoken word! Not really rap , though. . . .
                                  Message 16 of 20 , May 7, 2002
                                    Thanks to whoever posted the <www.ubu.com> address. This is a fantastic site
                                    for sound poetry and spoken word! Not really "rap", though. . . .

                                    _________________________________________________________________
                                    Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
                                  • manny@telerama.com
                                    Those who adore Miranda July are worshiping an emperor with no clothes. She has a lot less substance than Laurie Anderson did in her heyday. I saw July s
                                    Message 17 of 20 , May 8, 2002
                                      Those who "adore" Miranda July are worshiping an emperor with no clothes.
                                      She has a lot less substance than Laurie Anderson did in her heyday.
                                      I saw July's show - the hype was 80% undeserved, there was nothing to it.
                                      What a big waste of the over $3000 which she got.
                                      Simply repeating the words "Whitney Biennial" over and over again does
                                      not make something interesting (though, you'd think it would).
                                      Oh, she can make boring electronic melodies and respond to a bunch of dots
                                      on a prerecorded video tape. How late 70s.
                                    • Manuel Cabrera
                                      i ve never seen her perform live--only heard her albums, which i love, and seen one of her short films. this isn t her work, but the short film collection I
                                      Message 18 of 20 , May 8, 2002
                                        i've never seen her perform live--only heard her albums, which i love, and
                                        seen one of her short films. this isn't her work, but the short film
                                        collection "I Saw Bones," with works culled from the Big miss Moviola project,
                                        has some gems in it. I'm not very familiar with Laurie Anderson's work
                                        (except for a couple of tracks I've heard from her), but I'll be sure to check
                                        it out. In any case, I don't worship her: I simply enjoy what I've heard and
                                        seen of her work.

                                        mandel

                                        manny@... wrote:

                                        > Those who "adore" Miranda July are worshiping an emperor with no clothes.
                                        > She has a lot less substance than Laurie Anderson did in her heyday.
                                        > I saw July's show - the hype was 80% undeserved, there was nothing to it.
                                        > What a big waste of the over $3000 which she got.
                                        > Simply repeating the words "Whitney Biennial" over and over again does
                                        > not make something interesting (though, you'd think it would).
                                        > Oh, she can make boring electronic melodies and respond to a bunch of dots
                                        > on a prerecorded video tape. How late 70s.
                                        >
                                        >
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