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atonal rap/hip-hop

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  • Manuel Cabrera
    An esoteric request: does anyone know of any atonal hip-hop/rap out in the greater musical universe? this is an absolutely serious request. thanks in advance,
    Message 1 of 20 , May 4, 2002
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      An esoteric request: does anyone know of any atonal hip-hop/rap out in
      the greater musical universe? this is an absolutely serious request. thanks
      in advance,


      semiote
    • stevolende
      ... out in ... request. thanks ... dunno if the Lumberjacks of New Kingdom fame would answer that description exactly though I think they might apparently they
      Message 2 of 20 , May 5, 2002
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        --- In thewire@y..., Manuel Cabrera <semiote@e...> wrote:
        > An esoteric request: does anyone know of any atonal hip-hop/rap
        out in
        > the greater musical universe? this is an absolutely serious
        request. thanks
        > in advance,
        >
        >
        > semiote

        dunno if the Lumberjacks of New Kingdom fame would answer that
        description exactly
        though I think they might
        apparently they used to go to great pains to dirty up their sound.
        They are also one of the crw that remixed God on 'Appeal To HUman
        greed'
        thinking of whom Kevin Martin ex front of God has done some things in
        that territory solo hasn't he
        +with Justin Broadrick
        Techno Animal etc etc
        Stevo
        Np Doors In Concert Light My Fire
      • Manuel Cabrera
        Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama and sound art, but have
        Message 3 of 20 , May 5, 2002
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          Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama and sound art, but have been discovering things quite slowly. It began with an obsession with good radio drama, which has led me a few other things like Miranda July (whom I
          now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken word, not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any recommendations of good spoken word and sound art using words would be greatly appreciated.


          manuel cabrera

          Fractured Music wrote:

          > Check out the cLOUDDEAD collective. Very odd and very esoteric on Mush records. Web site is www.dirtyloop.com. They may have their own website as well but I'm not sure.Some of the members have had solo stuff as well. Dose One, of cLOUDDEAD has released some very odd poetry backed very dark dissonant noise.
          >
          > -Varjak
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Manuel Cabrera
          > To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 12:30 AM
          > Subject: [thewire] atonal rap/hip-hop
          >
          > An esoteric request: does anyone know of any atonal hip-hop/rap out in
          > the greater musical universe? this is an absolutely serious request. thanks
          > in advance,
          >
          > semiote
          >
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        • Fractured Music
          Check out the cLOUDDEAD collective. Very odd and very esoteric on Mush records. Web site is www.dirtyloop.com. They may have their own website as well but I m
          Message 4 of 20 , May 5, 2002
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            Check out the cLOUDDEAD collective. Very odd and very esoteric on Mush records. Web site is www.dirtyloop.com. They may have their own website as well but I'm not sure.Some of the members have had solo stuff as well. Dose One, of cLOUDDEAD has released some very odd poetry backed very dark dissonant noise.

            -Varjak
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Manuel Cabrera
            To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 12:30 AM
            Subject: [thewire] atonal rap/hip-hop


            An esoteric request: does anyone know of any atonal hip-hop/rap out in
            the greater musical universe? this is an absolutely serious request. thanks
            in advance,


            semiote


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          • Jason Witherspoon
            ... Check out Carl Hancock Rux, Mike Ladd, Ursula Rucker, Mystic, Saul Williams, et al.-- -- Jason Witherspoon ICQ #62837760
            Message 5 of 20 , May 5, 2002
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              At 3:32 PM -0700 5/5/02, Manuel Cabrera wrote:
              > Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am
              >interested in things that straddle the line between spoken
              >word/drama and sound art, but have been discovering things quite
              >slowly. It began with an obsession with good radio drama, which has
              >led me a few other things like Miranda July (whom I
              >now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken
              >word, not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any
              >recommendations of good spoken word and sound art using words would
              >be greatly appreciated.
              >
              >
              > manuel cabrera

              Check out Carl Hancock Rux, Mike Ladd, Ursula Rucker, Mystic, Saul
              Williams, et al.--
              --


              Jason Witherspoon
              ICQ #62837760

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            • M. Pathos
              atonal: Applied to a style of composition in which there is no conscious reference to any scale or tonic. (Simpson and Weiner (1991), The Compact Oxford
              Message 6 of 20 , May 5, 2002
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                atonal: Applied to a style of composition in which there is no conscious
                reference to any scale or tonic.
                (Simpson and Weiner (1991), The Compact Oxford English Dictionary -- Second
                Edition. Clarendon Press: London)

                As the majority of rappers and hip-hop producers are unschooled in
                traditions which impart cognizance of tonal or scalar structures, most
                hip-hop is "atonal": there is "no conscious reference to any scale or
                tonic".

                But you're probably just looking for stuff that sounds especially fucked-up.
                If this is the case, I recommend Techno Animal's "the brotherhood of the
                bomb" or any album by the Ice collective (especially "bad blood"). If you
                want more pop sounds, try anything on the quality Definitive Jux label. If
                you want mediocrity masquerading as profundity, try cLOUDDEAD.

                _________________________________________________________________
                Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
              • ninplant@xs4all.nl
                ... i recommend black sifichi - Tick on Noise Museum - The black Dog + Black Sifichi = Unsavory Products on Hydrogen Dukebox Sensational heavyweighter on
                Message 7 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                  >At 3:32 PM -0700 5/5/02, Manuel Cabrera wrote:
                  > > Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am
                  > >interested in things that straddle the line between spoken
                  > >word/drama and sound art, but have been discovering things quite
                  > >slowly. It began with an obsession with good radio drama, which has
                  > >led me a few other things like Miranda July (whom I
                  > >now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken
                  > >word, not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any
                  > >recommendations of good spoken word and sound art using words would
                  > >be greatly appreciated.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > manuel cabrera

                  i recommend
                  black sifichi
                  - "Tick" on Noise Museum
                  - "The black Dog + Black Sifichi = Unsavory Products" on Hydrogen Dukebox

                  Sensational "heavyweighter" on Word Sound
                  kathy acker with hal willner "redoing childhood" on kill rock stars
                  edwin torres "holy Kid" on kill rock stars
                  roberto valenza "musical secretions" on buddhaville
                  brion gysin "self portrait jumping" on made to measure

                  there are many more i could recommend but these are off the top of
                  what's left of my head.

                  bart / wreck this mess / am*dam
                • Dr Joel Blaiberg
                  Another shout out here for cLOUDDEAD and almost anything involving Dose One. Check out the Boom Bip & Dose One - Circle album (soon to be re-released in the UK
                  Message 8 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                    Another shout out here for cLOUDDEAD and almost anything involving Dose
                    One. Check out the Boom Bip & Dose One - Circle album (soon to be
                    re-released in the UK on Leaf) and the Rope Ladder 12 album on Mush.
                    Also, for french speakers, I've found the latest TTC - Ceci N'Est Pas Un
                    Disque album to be quite intriguing...

                    Joel

                    P.S. For a copy of my latest CDs for sale list drop me an e-mail....

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Manuel Cabrera [mailto:semiote@...]
                    Sent: 05 May 2002 23:32
                    To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [thewire] atonal rap/hip-hop


                    Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am
                    interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama
                    and sound art, but have been discovering things quite slowly. It began
                    with an obsession with good radio drama, which has led me a few other
                    things like Miranda July (whom I
                    now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken word,
                    not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any recommendations of good
                    spoken word and sound art using words would be greatly appreciated.


                    manuel cabrera

                    Fractured Music wrote:

                    > Check out the cLOUDDEAD collective. Very odd and very esoteric on Mush
                    records. Web site is www.dirtyloop.com. They may have their own website
                    as well but I'm not sure.Some of the members have had solo stuff as
                    well. Dose One, of cLOUDDEAD has released some very odd poetry backed
                    very dark dissonant noise.
                    >
                    > -Varjak
                  • stevolende
                    ... interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama and sound art, I was reminded of Lee ranaldo s solo stuff earlier this week I ve
                    Message 9 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                      --- In thewire@y..., Manuel Cabrera <semiote@e...> wrote:
                      > Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am
                      interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama
                      and sound art,



                      I was reminded of Lee ranaldo's solo stuff earlier this week
                      I've heard some good beatniky readings over guitar noise from him.

                      what reminded me of him was the tracks on the 2 versions of the Dylan
                      uNcut tribute cds
                      one has the version of sitting on the Fence by Thurston, Kim and Epic
                      which I think was specially done for a Dylan compi 15 or so years
                      back (this disc's blurb says its exclusive to this disc)

                      the other disc has a sopolo Lee track -i'm not sure what only that
                      its a dylan cover.

                      But I do recall a ccd I had way back with Lee doing spoken word about
                      recording with the Jajouka in their Morroccan village.
                      Unfortunately thats now long gone.
                      as is the other industrial compi I had with his solo stuff on.
                      imagine 'In The Kingdsom #41'(or whatever the number) from Sonic
                      youth's Evol without the rest of Sonic Youth
                      Stevo
                      Np Embryonic Journey Jefferson Airplane
                    • pm.carey@utoronto.ca
                      ... Ha!!! ;-) Still wondering why everyone loves Anticon/cDEAD/Dose et al soooo much. They have moments, but ... -Patrick NP: Edgard Varèse - Complete
                      Message 10 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                        * "M. Pathos" <mpathos@...>:
                        >If you want mediocrity masquerading as profundity, try cLOUDDEAD.

                        Ha!!! ;-) Still wondering why everyone loves Anticon/cDEAD/Dose
                        et al soooo much. They have moments, but ...


                        -Patrick


                        NP: Edgard Varèse - "Complete Works"
                      • gradyfinklemyer
                        What happened to your big dramatic exit? ... am ... has ... would
                        Message 11 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                          What happened to your big dramatic exit?

                          --- In thewire@y..., Jason Witherspoon <arzachel@s...> wrote:
                          > At 3:32 PM -0700 5/5/02, Manuel Cabrera wrote:
                          > > Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I
                          am
                          > >interested in things that straddle the line between spoken
                          > >word/drama and sound art, but have been discovering things quite
                          > >slowly. It began with an obsession with good radio drama, which
                          has
                          > >led me a few other things like Miranda July (whom I
                          > >now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken
                          > >word, not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any
                          > >recommendations of good spoken word and sound art using words
                          would
                          > >be greatly appreciated.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > manuel cabrera
                          >
                          > Check out Carl Hancock Rux, Mike Ladd, Ursula Rucker, Mystic, Saul
                          > Williams, et al.--
                          > --
                          >
                          >
                          > Jason Witherspoon
                          > ICQ #62837760
                          >
                          > ---------
                          > --- ---
                          > ----O----
                          > ---------
                          > --- ---
                          > ---------
                        • gradyfinklemyer
                          Yeah, most of it ain t tonal, cause they ain t schooled in nuthin . If youse guys aks me, it s all atonal, and none of it weren t never no good. Thas juss my
                          Message 12 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                            Yeah, most of it ain't tonal, cause they ain't schooled in nuthin'.
                            If youse guys aks me, it's all atonal, and none of it weren't never
                            no good. Thas juss my 'pinion, howevah!

                            --- In thewire@y..., "M. Pathos" <mpathos@h...> wrote:
                            > atonal: Applied to a style of composition in which there is no
                            conscious
                            > reference to any scale or tonic.
                            > (Simpson and Weiner (1991), The Compact Oxford English Dictionary --
                            Second
                            > Edition. Clarendon Press: London)
                            >
                            > As the majority of rappers and hip-hop producers are unschooled in
                            > traditions which impart cognizance of tonal or scalar structures,
                            most
                            > hip-hop is "atonal": there is "no conscious reference to any scale
                            or
                            > tonic".
                            >
                            > But you're probably just looking for stuff that sounds especially
                            fucked-up.
                            > If this is the case, I recommend Techno Animal's "the brotherhood
                            of the
                            > bomb" or any album by the Ice collective (especially "bad blood").
                            If you
                            > want more pop sounds, try anything on the quality Definitive Jux
                            label. If
                            > you want mediocrity masquerading as profundity, try cLOUDDEAD.
                            >
                            > _________________________________________________________________
                            > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
                            http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
                          • Jason Witherspoon
                            ... I just *knew* a big, greasy Ralph2391311 would plop out the minute I opened my mouth. Bugged that I m back, Ralph? -- Jason Witherspoon ICQ #62837760
                            Message 13 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                              At 1:44 AM +0000 5/7/02, gradyfinklemyer wrote:
                              > What happened to your big dramatic exit?

                              I just *knew* a big, greasy Ralph2391311 would plop out the minute I
                              opened my mouth. Bugged that I'm back, Ralph?
                              --


                              Jason Witherspoon
                              ICQ #62837760

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                              ----O----
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                            • reddye6
                              ... Intermedium Records is a great place to jump in for contemporary radio drama, though most of it is in German (except for the great, great Beckett release
                              Message 14 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                                >In general, I am interested in things that
                                >straddle the line between spoken word/drama
                                >and sound art

                                Intermedium Records is a great place to jump in for contemporary radio
                                drama, though most of it is in German (except for the great, great
                                Beckett release "... the whole thing's coming out of the dark"). Then
                                there's the radio dramas of Ammer and Einheit, the latest one being
                                "Crashing Aeroplanes." I also like the soundtracks to Derek Jarman's
                                films, which often include a healthy portion of dialogue.

                                Other spoken word releases that stand out for me, off the top of my
                                head, include Steven Jesse Bernstein's "Prison" (great voice, kind of
                                like a young Burroughs) and Jeff Noon/David Toop's "Needle in the
                                Groove," and I'd even throw in Current 93's "I Have A Special Plan For
                                This World."

                                A place to dig through a goldmine of sound poetry/spoken word mp3s is
                                at www.ubu.com. There's a ton: Beckett, Burroughs, Artaud, Giorno
                                Poetry Systems stuff. Just go there.
                                Mike
                              • gradyfinklemyer
                                Yo G, I couldn t care less whether you stay or go. It s been kinda lackin on the hip hop tip since you left. It s been kinda lackin on the humour tip since
                                Message 15 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                                  Yo G, I couldn't care less whether you stay or go. It's been kinda
                                  lackin' on the hip hop tip since you left. It's been kinda lackin' on
                                  the humour tip since ralph left.

                                  --- In thewire@y..., Jason Witherspoon <arzachel@s...> wrote:
                                  > At 1:44 AM +0000 5/7/02, gradyfinklemyer wrote:
                                  > > What happened to your big dramatic exit?
                                  >
                                  > I just *knew* a big, greasy Ralph2391311 would plop out the minute
                                  I
                                  > opened my mouth. Bugged that I'm back, Ralph?
                                  > --
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Jason Witherspoon
                                  > ICQ #62837760
                                  >
                                  > ---------
                                  > --- ---
                                  > ----O----
                                  > ---------
                                  > --- ---
                                  > ---------
                                • gradyfinklemyer
                                  I recommend Pierre Henry s Fragments Pour Artaud, which is bumpin in my crib right now. Great mix of spoken word and out sonics. Too bad I don t speak frog.
                                  Message 16 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                                    I recommend Pierre Henry's Fragments Pour Artaud, which is bumpin'
                                    in my crib right now. Great mix of spoken word and out sonics. Too
                                    bad I don't speak frog. Oh well, it adds nice atmosfear to the
                                    sonical proceedings. Also worth a shout out is Pierre Henry's
                                    Apocalypse de Jean. And if any of you gangstas is lookin' to get the
                                    box sets that have come out, Dusty Groove gots em' for about $35!
                                    Whee!

                                    --- In thewire@y..., "reddye6" <reddye6@a...> wrote:
                                    > >In general, I am interested in things that
                                    > >straddle the line between spoken word/drama
                                    > >and sound art
                                    >
                                    > Intermedium Records is a great place to jump in for contemporary
                                    radio
                                    > drama, though most of it is in German (except for the great, great
                                    > Beckett release "... the whole thing's coming out of the dark").
                                    Then
                                    > there's the radio dramas of Ammer and Einheit, the latest one being
                                    > "Crashing Aeroplanes." I also like the soundtracks to Derek
                                    Jarman's
                                    > films, which often include a healthy portion of dialogue.
                                    >
                                    > Other spoken word releases that stand out for me, off the top of my
                                    > head, include Steven Jesse Bernstein's "Prison" (great voice, kind
                                    of
                                    > like a young Burroughs) and Jeff Noon/David Toop's "Needle in the
                                    > Groove," and I'd even throw in Current 93's "I Have A Special Plan
                                    For
                                    > This World."
                                    >
                                    > A place to dig through a goldmine of sound poetry/spoken word mp3s
                                    is
                                    > at www.ubu.com. There's a ton: Beckett, Burroughs, Artaud, Giorno
                                    > Poetry Systems stuff. Just go there.
                                    > Mike
                                  • M. Pathos
                                    I guess what bugs me about those groups, and disappoints me about rap/hip-hop in general, is its mistaken emphasis: wordplay by itself isn t enough; while
                                    Message 17 of 20 , May 7, 2002
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                                      I guess what bugs me about those groups, and disappoints me about
                                      rap/hip-hop in general, is its mistaken emphasis: wordplay by itself isn't
                                      enough; while concentrating on spitting the most preposterous permutations
                                      of polysyllables, most rappers forget the need to actually have something
                                      worth saying. "Rap" could be a wonderful form for telling stories.
                                      Continuously hearing about how rich, or broke, the rapper is, is not enough.
                                      >
                                      >

                                      Ha!!! ;-) Still wondering why everyone loves Anticon/cDEAD/Dose
                                      et al soooo much. They have moments, but ...


                                      -Patrick


                                      NP: Edgard Var�se - "Complete Works"






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                                    • M. Pathos
                                      Thanks to whoever posted the address. This is a fantastic site for sound poetry and spoken word! Not really rap , though. . . .
                                      Message 18 of 20 , May 7, 2002
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                                        Thanks to whoever posted the <www.ubu.com> address. This is a fantastic site
                                        for sound poetry and spoken word! Not really "rap", though. . . .

                                        _________________________________________________________________
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                                      • manny@telerama.com
                                        Those who adore Miranda July are worshiping an emperor with no clothes. She has a lot less substance than Laurie Anderson did in her heyday. I saw July s
                                        Message 19 of 20 , May 8, 2002
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                                          Those who "adore" Miranda July are worshiping an emperor with no clothes.
                                          She has a lot less substance than Laurie Anderson did in her heyday.
                                          I saw July's show - the hype was 80% undeserved, there was nothing to it.
                                          What a big waste of the over $3000 which she got.
                                          Simply repeating the words "Whitney Biennial" over and over again does
                                          not make something interesting (though, you'd think it would).
                                          Oh, she can make boring electronic melodies and respond to a bunch of dots
                                          on a prerecorded video tape. How late 70s.
                                        • Manuel Cabrera
                                          i ve never seen her perform live--only heard her albums, which i love, and seen one of her short films. this isn t her work, but the short film collection I
                                          Message 20 of 20 , May 8, 2002
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                                            i've never seen her perform live--only heard her albums, which i love, and
                                            seen one of her short films. this isn't her work, but the short film
                                            collection "I Saw Bones," with works culled from the Big miss Moviola project,
                                            has some gems in it. I'm not very familiar with Laurie Anderson's work
                                            (except for a couple of tracks I've heard from her), but I'll be sure to check
                                            it out. In any case, I don't worship her: I simply enjoy what I've heard and
                                            seen of her work.

                                            mandel

                                            manny@... wrote:

                                            > Those who "adore" Miranda July are worshiping an emperor with no clothes.
                                            > She has a lot less substance than Laurie Anderson did in her heyday.
                                            > I saw July's show - the hype was 80% undeserved, there was nothing to it.
                                            > What a big waste of the over $3000 which she got.
                                            > Simply repeating the words "Whitney Biennial" over and over again does
                                            > not make something interesting (though, you'd think it would).
                                            > Oh, she can make boring electronic melodies and respond to a bunch of dots
                                            > on a prerecorded video tape. How late 70s.
                                            >
                                            >
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