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[thewire] Re: year end list

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  • ninplant@xs4all.nl
    Since i have the suspicion that everyone just deletes my posted playlists [plug: you shouldn t necessarily just dump them. i try to do extensive reviews or
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 6, 2002
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      Since i have the suspicion that everyone just deletes my posted
      playlists [plug: you shouldn't necessarily just dump them. i try to
      do extensive reviews or interviews etc. so its not just a list] here
      is my year-end list as supplied to a Dutch music trade jrnl for their
      annual vote tally...

      i also judge a disc by listenability [i.e., how often i go back to it
      on headphones or when guests are over] vs surprising inventiveness of
      sound vs transgressive energy vs the otherness-obscurity factor...

      bart / wreck this mess-amsterdam

      If you'd like to know more [or less!] about any of the below. don't
      hesitate to ask off-list.

      1. "Matrix" > Ryoji Ikeda [Touch]
      2. "Sah? / 5_24" > Indopepsychics vs Robert Henke [Progressive Form]
      3. "Staedtizism" > Various Artists [~scape]
      4. "Dub this Net: Altered Connection 1" > Various Artists [Hypertunez]
      5. "Select Cuts from Blood & Fire: Chapter Two" > Various Artists [Echo Beach]
      6. "Bip Hop Generation vols. 1-4" > Various Artists [Bip Hop / Bleep]
      7. "Shallow & Profound" > Yonderboi [Ugar]
      8. "King Jammy Meets Dry & Heavy in the Jaws of the Tiger" > King
      Jammy vs Dry & Heavy [BSI]
      9. "Your Favourite London Sounds" > compiled by Peter Cusack [London
      Musician's Collective]
      10. "Julie B. Bonnie" > Julie B. Bonnie [Island]

      -----

      11. "Three the Hard Way" > DJ Scud vs Bombardier vs Nitro [Cross Fade
      Entertainment]
      12. "I Love Serge: Electronica Gainsbourg" > Various Artists [Universal]
      13. "Bit Streams" > Various Artists [JdK / Whitney Museum]
      14. "Claire de Terre" > Robert Normandeau [Empreintes Digitales]
      15. "Pole R" > Pole [~scape]
      16. "The City's Collapsing [But Not Tonight]" > Zorn [Lux Nigra]
      17. "Don't Dolby the Bedroom Composers" > Morphine Boutique [tete-a-tete]
      18. "L'Autre Nuit" > Phil Von & the Gnawa Musicians of Fes [Prikosnovenie]
      19. "Skandinavian" > Penumbra [Iris Light]
      20. "Electronomicon" > Pitch Black [Kog]
      21. "State of the Union 200.1" > Various Artists [EMF]
      22. "Famous Aspect" > Various Artists [Mille Plateaux]
      23. "Ten Thousand Shades of Blue" > Richard Lainhart [XI Records]
      24. "My Life in the Gush of Boasts" > Scott Marshall [Paniculture]
      25. "Handle With Care" > EZ3kiel [Jarring Effects]
      26. "We Are Your Friends" > Die Trip Computer Die [Alcohol]
      27. "Orange Noise" > Maschinenschlosser [Dbelltime]


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Vincent Bergeron
      I agree for Le Tigre which previous record was better and even there quiet a record of few listens only. But, Missy E made some real creative hip-hop. All
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 6, 2002
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        I agree for Le Tigre which previous record was better and even there quiet a record of few listens only.

        But, Missy E made some real creative hip-hop. All right, there's a load of creative hip-hop lately, but it's certainly not crap because it sell well. This pro-underground attitude is no better than the opposite. I think the record deserve to be in this top, not that high though...
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: ralph2319311
        To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 7:59 PM
        Subject: [thewire] year end list


        ...Missy "F"in Elliot-#8?? Jay zzzzzz??? Le tigre?? Shite, Shite,
        Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite...Cannibal Bollocks?? Give me an "F"in
        break pu-leeeze!!!! Every year the quality of the year end list seems
        to sink lower and lower and things start to get more and more
        commercial. People...we don't have to go out of our way to prove how
        open minded we are by pretending to like worthless cack. How many of
        you are actually going to be listening to the Missy E record a few
        years from now? It's disposable tripe on par with Britney, etc. And I
        really doubt all of you Missy E lovers out there would be so into her
        if Ian Pinprick didn't write her up in the rag. He should have saved
        that review for Uncut instead of The Wire.


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        -------Vincent Bergeron-------
        vincent.bergeron2@...
        ------------------------------
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Gary Atkins
        Bart- Dismiss your suspicion. Yours is one of the only playlists that I do pay attention to...and learn from. Please continue. Gary ...
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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          Bart-
          Dismiss your suspicion. Yours is one of the only playlists that I do pay
          attention to...and learn from. Please continue.

          Gary


          >From: ninplant@...
          >Reply-To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
          >To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: [thewire] Re: year end list
          >Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 13:23:19 +0100
          >
          >Since i have the suspicion that everyone just deletes my posted
          >playlists [plug: you shouldn't necessarily just dump them. i try to
          >do extensive reviews or interviews etc. so its not just a list] here
          >is my year-end list as supplied to a Dutch music trade jrnl for their
          >annual vote tally...
          >
          >i also judge a disc by listenability [i.e., how often i go back to it
          >on headphones or when guests are over] vs surprising inventiveness of
          >sound vs transgressive energy vs the otherness-obscurity factor...
          >
          >bart / wreck this mess-amsterdam
          >
          >

          _________________________________________________________________
          Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
        • Simon Smith
          sorry ... you (in the vous sense) are often men of impeccable taste, but in this case you re just wrong (though I suspect we ve been here before). the Missy
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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            sorry ... you (in the 'vous' sense) are often men of impeccable taste, but
            in this case you're just wrong (though I suspect we've been here before).
            the Missy E album is one of the weirdest commercial hit records in a long
            time and is well worthy of top-ending the list. I'm not even going to bother
            responding to the idea that some of us only like it because of Penman's
            review ... it was a route throught hip-hop to jazz that got me into a lot of
            wire stuff in the first place.

            And I really can't see how anyone can talk about 'commercial' music, and
            then express an interest in Electralene, who have made a great record, but
            are hardly ground-breaking (ditto Low, Will Oldham etc ... all good, but not
            really cutting edge).

            Without wishing to drag up an old argument, the only obvious difference
            between the not-very-cutting-edge Missy and Jay Z and the
            not-very-cutting-edge Electralene and Will Oldham (obviously there are
            stylistic differences, but that didn't appear to be your complaint, given
            that you all seem to have wide-ranging tastes) is one of skin colour and
            obviously that's NOT what you're basing your judgement on (no sarcasm
            intended, honestly!!!) So what IS the problem?


            >From: "A.S. Van Dorston" <anthony@...>
            >Reply-To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
            >To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [thewire] year end list
            >Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 20:41:52 -0600
            >
            >Actually I believe Simon Reynolds wrote the Missy E review for Uncut,
            >another longtime Wire writer. He also gave the Jay-Z album five
            >stars. Strange innit. To take the edge off their snobbery, they figure
            >'Black music' has another "otherness" that it's still cool, so that they
            >don't focus entirely on white, uptight avant gaaarde.
            >
            >
            >I believe there should be variety, but Missy and Jay-Z aren't necessarily
            >the best choices. There's gotta be some balance between the disposable fun
            >stuff and the experimental pish posh that one rarely listens to but looks
            >pretty on your shelf.
            >
            >What would you vote for?
            >
            >At 12:59 AM 1/6/02 +0000, you wrote:
            > >...Missy "F"in Elliot-#8?? Jay zzzzzz??? Le tigre?? Shite, Shite,
            > >Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite...Cannibal Bollocks?? Give me an "F"in
            > >break pu-leeeze!!!! Every year the quality of the year end list seems
            > >to sink lower and lower and things start to get more and more
            > >commercial. People...we don't have to go out of our way to prove how
            > >open minded we are by pretending to like worthless cack. How many of
            > >you are actually going to be listening to the Missy E record a few
            > >years from now? It's disposable tripe on par with Britney, etc. And I
            > >really doubt all of you Missy E lovers out there would be so into her
            > >if Ian Pinprick didn't write her up in the rag. He should have saved
            > >that review for Uncut instead of The Wire.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > >TheWire List Info Page: [getting there]
            > >
            > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            >Fast 'n' Bulbous Music Webzine
            >www.fastnbulbous.com
            >



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          • Marc Weidenbaum
            In a word: ditto. I haven t even read the review in question, but I ve been loving that Get Ur Freak On single, and the whole album. Man, pick up the CD
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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              In a word: ditto. I haven't even read the review in question, but I've been
              loving that "Get Ur Freak On" single, and the whole album. Man, pick up the
              CD single and check out the instrumental version. It's splendidly jittery,
              with these weird silent gaps at the start and this kooky B-movie vibe
              toward the end. It's only "mainstream" in retrospect -- i.e., because it's
              popular. There isn't much on pop radio that resembles it.

              At 11:55 PM 1/7/02 +0000, Simon Smith wrote:
              >sorry ... you (in the 'vous' sense) are often men of impeccable taste, but
              >in this case you're just wrong (though I suspect we've been here before).
              >the Missy E album is one of the weirdest commercial hit records in a long
              >time and is well worthy of top-ending the list. I'm not even going to bother
              >responding to the idea that some of us only like it because of Penman's
              >review ... it was a route throught hip-hop to jazz that got me into a lot of
              >wire stuff in the first place.
              >
              >And I really can't see how anyone can talk about 'commercial' music, and
              >then express an interest in Electralene, who have made a great record, but
              >are hardly ground-breaking (ditto Low, Will Oldham etc ... all good, but not
              >really cutting edge).
              >
              >Without wishing to drag up an old argument, the only obvious difference
              >between the not-very-cutting-edge Missy and Jay Z and the
              >not-very-cutting-edge Electralene and Will Oldham (obviously there are
              >stylistic differences, but that didn't appear to be your complaint, given
              >that you all seem to have wide-ranging tastes) is one of skin colour and
              >obviously that's NOT what you're basing your judgement on (no sarcasm
              >intended, honestly!!!) So what IS the problem?


              - - -
              Marc Weidenbaum
              www.disquiet.com
            • A.S. Van Dorston
              Listen to the entire Missy Elliott album and it s not as consistent as Supa Dupa Fly, but better than her second album. I think it was good -- I ranked it
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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                Listen to the entire Missy Elliott album and it's not as consistent as Supa
                Dupa Fly, but better than her second album. I think it was good -- I
                ranked it about 81 in my list. I think my original question was, is it
                possible that Miss E, Jay-Z and Cannibal Ox were near the top of the lists
                because they were the few token black artists, so they carried extra weight
                in some minds? Let's say if those albums hovered just below a critic's top
                10 or 20, they might be accused of having homogenous taste. So perhaps the
                ranking gets inflated for the sake of "balance." Or perhaps not. Why not
                put N*E*R*D at the top -- is it possible they aren't "black" enough,
                because their album represents a synthesis with rock music, which is
                considered "white," despite the valiant efforts of Hendrix, Isley Bros,
                Funkadelic, Bad Brains and now Black Jack Johnson Project, to reclaim it?

                Just questions, not any sort of theory.

                By the way, Black Jack Johnson Project is on tour now, playing on Wed. at
                Metro in Chicago. It's Mos Def (Black Star), Bernie Worrell (P-Funk), Will
                Calhoun (Living Colour), Dr. Know (Bad Brains) and Doug Wimbish. Teach
                those punkass rap-rockers how it's done.

                Fast 'n' Bulbous Review
                N*E*R*D, In Search Of . . . [U.S. Version] (Virgin) 10-
                N*E*R*D, In Search Of . . . [UK Version] (Virgin) 9+

                "No-one Ever Really Dies," says ultra slick hip hop producers Pharrell
                Williams and Chad Hugo, a.k.a. The Neptunes, a.k.a. N*E*R*D, they're just
                reborn into a hot rock band. Those expecting the same bouncy mainstream
                production that made big hits for Kelis, Jay-Z, Mystikal, Beenie Man and
                Ludacris will be surprised by the visceral, dirty feel of this music.
                Virgin released In Search Of last year against the band's wishes. The
                domestic version is quite a bit different. Listening to the two
                side-by-side, track-for-track, I can see how N*E*R*D would be pissed. It
                sounds like the UK version is a demo. A very polished demo, but two
                dimensional when compared to the fullness of the US version. The awkward
                skits were taken out and the song lengths tightened. Most importantly, they
                replace the stiff, dated drum machine with a real drummer. Many tracks that
                recalled early 80s electro, now sound fresher. And they swing. And they
                rock. Hell, sometimes they destroy. The new and improved N*E*R*D sounds
                both looser and tighter, with a harder overall mix. Besides the lame skits,
                nothing is missed from the previous version. All the cool samples and synth
                lines are intact. The end result is a stunning album that updates the
                spirit of Sly & The Family Stone, The Isley Brothers, George Clinton's
                Parliament-Funkadelic, Curtis Mayfield and Prince's more rockist moments,
                without plundering them for musical ideas. They also strive to bring back
                the lyrical weight of prime seventies Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder, with
                their own brand of Buddhist-B-boy social consciousness. While it's tough to
                top the masters, N*E*R*D comes close. "Lapdance" is a not-quite successful
                metaphor for politicians as 'ho's, but the intensity of the music brings it
                up a level, rivaling the urgency of Public Enemy circa 1989. A delicate
                Duke Ellington "Caravan" synth melody during the chorus is a brilliant
                touch. "Things Are Getting Better" recalls the sunny, sing-songy hip hop of
                A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul and The Jungle Brothers. The rapping is
                nimble and witty, the synth lines fat and heavy, and the rhythm funky as
                hell. I look forward to the extended dance mix. In the sarcastically
                chivalrous "Brain" ("I just love your brain"), they take a choppy rhythm
                guitar line similar to the recent P. Diddy single and space and drag the
                chorus like a psychedelic garage nugget. The new version adds some prime
                scratching near the end. "Provider" is one of the few tracks that don't
                differ too much from the original version. It's a blues ballad that tells a
                dealer's tale in the tradition of Curtis Mayfield's Superfly. With a couple
                new wave breaks, the song is moving. "Truth Or Dare" vastly improves the
                old version by adding heavy staccato strings used like a guitar symphony
                adding much needed dramatic effect. "Tape You" gives a new meaning to home
                taping, when the singer's come on is to ask her to let him watch her kick
                it all night, to a slinky, sexy, rubbery rhythm, of course. "Baby Doll"
                adds an awesome, heavy bassline to the lightly loping reggae-ish synth
                lines. "Am I High," which was originally a sleepy, stoned groove, added a
                harder funk edge. "Rock Star" takes on the collective egos of N*E*R*D's
                music biz peers and completely shreds them to pieces. The power of the
                original version is magnified by a savage Bad Brains-like guitar and drums
                riff, following the introduction, "Fuckin' posers!" "Bobby James" is yet
                another peak, a first-person narrative junkie blues about a 17 year-old in
                a downward spiral. It avoids cliché and schmaltz by focusing on believable,
                realistic details, carried by an elegiac high-pitched chorus that truly
                rivals Curtis Mayfield. The album closes on another uplifting note with
                "Stay Together," complete with the best use of snare drums since U2's
                "Sunday Bloody Sunday." The song builds and holds an ecstatic level with
                yelps, Beatles harmonies and keyboards, and then winds down to a single
                voice. In an era when pop artists say and mean nothing, N*E*R*D raises the
                bar. Even when measured against heavyweight classics of the past, In Search
                Of . . . is a massive album.

                At 06:22 PM 1/7/02 -0600, you wrote:
                >In a word: ditto. I haven't even read the review in question, but I've been
                >loving that "Get Ur Freak On" single, and the whole album. Man, pick up the
                >CD single and check out the instrumental version. It's splendidly jittery,
                >with these weird silent gaps at the start and this kooky B-movie vibe
                >toward the end. It's only "mainstream" in retrospect -- i.e., because it's
                >popular. There isn't much on pop radio that resembles it.
                >
                >At 11:55 PM 1/7/02 +0000, Simon Smith wrote:
                >
                > >Without wishing to drag up an old argument, the only obvious difference
                > >between the not-very-cutting-edge Missy and Jay Z and the
                > >not-very-cutting-edge Electralene and Will Oldham (obviously there are
                > >stylistic differences, but that didn't appear to be your complaint, given
                > >that you all seem to have wide-ranging tastes) is one of skin colour and
                > >obviously that's NOT what you're basing your judgement on (no sarcasm
                > >intended, honestly!!!) So what IS the problem?



                Fast 'n' Bulbous Music Webzine
                www.fastnbulbous.com


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Marc Weidenbaum
                N.E.R.D. s In Search Of is a great record. It didn t come out in the U.S. yet, I don t think, aside from the Lapdance single. It s due out later this month
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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                  N.E.R.D.'s 'In Search Of' is a great record. It didn't come out in the U.S.
                  yet, I don't think, aside from the "Lapdance" single. It's due out later
                  this month or early next.

                  Marc

                  At 07:38 PM 1/7/02 -0600, A.S. Van Dorston wrote:
                  >Listen to the entire Missy Elliott album and it's not as consistent as Supa
                  >Dupa Fly, but better than her second album. I think it was good -- I
                  >ranked it about 81 in my list. I think my original question was, is it
                  >possible that Miss E, Jay-Z and Cannibal Ox were near the top of the lists
                  >because they were the few token black artists, so they carried extra weight
                  >in some minds? Let's say if those albums hovered just below a critic's top
                  >10 or 20, they might be accused of having homogenous taste. So perhaps the
                  >ranking gets inflated for the sake of "balance." Or perhaps not. Why not
                  >put N*E*R*D at the top -- is it possible they aren't "black" enough,
                  >because their album represents a synthesis with rock music, which is
                  >considered "white," despite the valiant efforts of Hendrix, Isley Bros,
                  >Funkadelic, Bad Brains and now Black Jack Johnson Project, to reclaim it?
                  >
                  >Just questions, not any sort of theory.
                  >
                  >...

                  - - -
                  Marc Weidenbaum
                  www.disquiet.com
                • A.S. Van Dorston
                  It came out in UK and made the lists of The Wire, NME, MOJO and possibly Uncut and Q, but usually not as high up as Missy or Jay-Z. You ll be happy to know the
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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                    It came out in UK and made the lists of The Wire, NME, MOJO and possibly
                    Uncut and Q, but usually not as high up as Missy or Jay-Z.

                    You'll be happy to know the U.S. version is far superior to the UK version
                    (see review in original post, or www.fastnbulbous.com/nerd_in.htm)

                    Tony

                    At 08:02 PM 1/7/02 -0600, you wrote:
                    >N.E.R.D.'s 'In Search Of' is a great record. It didn't come out in the U.S.
                    >yet, I don't think, aside from the "Lapdance" single. It's due out later
                    >this month or early next.
                    >
                    >Marc
                    >
                    >At 07:38 PM 1/7/02 -0600, A.S. Van Dorston wrote:
                    > >Listen to the entire Missy Elliott album and it's not as consistent as Supa
                    > >Dupa Fly, but better than her second album. I think it was good -- I
                    > >ranked it about 81 in my list. I think my original question was, is it
                    > >possible that Miss E, Jay-Z and Cannibal Ox were near the top of the lists
                    > >because they were the few token black artists, so they carried extra weight
                    > >in some minds? Let's say if those albums hovered just below a critic's top
                    > >10 or 20, they might be accused of having homogenous taste. So perhaps the
                    > >ranking gets inflated for the sake of "balance." Or perhaps not. Why not
                    > >put N*E*R*D at the top -- is it possible they aren't "black" enough,
                    > >because their album represents a synthesis with rock music, which is
                    > >considered "white," despite the valiant efforts of Hendrix, Isley Bros,
                    > >Funkadelic, Bad Brains and now Black Jack Johnson Project, to reclaim it?
                    > >
                    > >Just questions, not any sort of theory.
                    > >
                    > >...
                    >
                    > - - -
                    >Marc Weidenbaum
                    >www.disquiet.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >TheWire List Info Page: [getting there]
                    >
                    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                    Fast 'n' Bulbous Music Webzine
                    www.fastnbulbous.com
                  • Vincent Bergeron
                    ... not ... I think very little records are groundbreaking. Few records this year, that s the thing. The Acid Mothers Temple by example are nice wall of
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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                      >
                      > And I really can't see how anyone can talk about 'commercial' music, and
                      > then express an interest in Electralene, who have made a great record, but
                      > are hardly ground-breaking (ditto Low, Will Oldham etc ... all good, but
                      not
                      > really cutting edge).
                      >

                      I think very little records are groundbreaking. Few records this year,
                      that's the thing. The Acid Mothers Temple by example are nice wall of
                      sounds, but nothing new under the sun , Glenn Branca, Sonic Youth, My Bloody
                      Valentine, old psychedelic...

                      -------Vincent Bergeron-------
                      vincent.bergeron2@...
                      ------------------------------
                      http://www.altmuziq.cjb.net
                      http://www.mp3.com/Vincent
                      http://www.mp3.com/collageseries
                      http://vincentbergeron.cjb.net/index.htm
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