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Re: year end list

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  • ralph2319311
    Ian Penman writes for Uncut also, and I meant he should have put the Missy E review in that magazine instead of The Wire. Speaking of reviews Uncut blows. 4
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 5, 2002
      Ian Penman writes for Uncut also, and I meant he should have put
      the Missy E "review" in that magazine instead of The Wire. Speaking
      of reviews Uncut blows. 4 stars for Hall and Oates, 2 stars for Syd
      Barrett. Yah, uh-huh. I agree with your comment about "otherness".
      The Wire ritually disses English Psychedlic music. In the last three
      issues they dismissed,with a sneer, the Nuggets II box, the Mojo Acid
      drops box, and the British Psychedelic compilation. I don't think
      they even listened to the entire sets. They stated almost everyone on
      the Nuggets II box was a careerist, except for a few of the Japanese
      bands. Yeah, one forty five release, then disappearing is sure
      careerism. But the shambly Japanese cack which is a poor imitation of
      the British/American psych rates highly because of the sense
      of "other" the reviewer gets from it. Not everything on the
      compilations is great, but there is some FUN stuff to listen to, and
      for fun listening, I'll take it any day of the week over Missy E or
      some such bog-standard product foisted on a guillible public. I
      wonder how long it will be before the used bins are overflowing with
      Missy E's latest opus? And why can't experimental music be fun
      also? --- In thewire@y..., "A.S. Van Dorston" <anthony@f...> wrote:
      > Actually I believe Simon Reynolds wrote the Missy E review for
      Uncut,
      > another longtime Wire writer. He also gave the Jay-Z album five
      > stars. Strange innit. To take the edge off their snobbery, they
      figure
      > 'Black music' has another "otherness" that it's still cool, so that
      they
      > don't focus entirely on white, uptight avant gaaarde.
      >
      >
      > I believe there should be variety, but Missy and Jay-Z aren't
      necessarily
      > the best choices. There's gotta be some balance between the
      disposable fun
      > stuff and the experimental pish posh that one rarely listens to but
      looks
      > pretty on your shelf.
      >
      > What would you vote for?
      >
      > At 12:59 AM 1/6/02 +0000, you wrote:
      > >...Missy "F"in Elliot-#8?? Jay zzzzzz??? Le tigre?? Shite, Shite,
      > >Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite...Cannibal Bollocks?? Give me an "F"in
      > >break pu-leeeze!!!! Every year the quality of the year end list
      seems
      > >to sink lower and lower and things start to get more and more
      > >commercial. People...we don't have to go out of our way to prove
      how
      > >open minded we are by pretending to like worthless cack. How many
      of
      > >you are actually going to be listening to the Missy E record a few
      > >years from now? It's disposable tripe on par with Britney, etc.
      And I
      > >really doubt all of you Missy E lovers out there would be so into
      her
      > >if Ian Pinprick didn't write her up in the rag. He should have
      saved
      > >that review for Uncut instead of The Wire.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@y...
      > >
      > >TheWire List Info Page: [getting there]
      > >
      > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
      > Fast 'n' Bulbous Music Webzine
      > www.fastnbulbous.com
    • Rob Thornton
      ... First of all, you re assuming that Wire readers learned about her from the magazine, Ralph, and that isn t so. I heard the Missy E singles on the radio (in
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 5, 2002
        On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, ralph2319311 wrote:

        > How many of you are actually going to be listening to the Missy E
        > record a few years from now? It's disposable tripe on par with Britney,
        > etc. And I really doubt all of you Missy E lovers out there would be so
        > into her if Ian Pinprick didn't write her up in the rag.

        First of all, you're assuming that Wire readers learned about her from the
        magazine, Ralph, and that isn't so. I heard the Missy E singles on the
        radio (in the US) and never read the Wire article.

        Next, I think you're quite wrong about Missy E and her producer
        Timbaland--her songs are quite Wire-worthy! Innovative & twisted
        funk riddims, neat sound textures, you've heard my bit before. If lyrics
        were the only thing that counted, lots of '60s psychedelic rock
        would be right out, right?

        And finally, I must confess my sins to Ralph: I'm an American honky who
        enjoys black music. One day, my Anglo-Saxon purity [smirk] withered away
        somehow and I discovered a love for rap, R&B, funk, jazz, the "blues"
        (you know, the stuff that was a big influence on rock & roll), and so on.

        Unfortunately for the British National Front, the Christian Identity
        folks, and the rest of "the race," I'm not planning to recover my lost
        purity, wherever and whatever it is.

        you can wag your tail/but i ain't gonna feed you no more,

        rob t.
      • ninplant@xs4all.nl
        Since i have the suspicion that everyone just deletes my posted playlists [plug: you shouldn t necessarily just dump them. i try to do extensive reviews or
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 6, 2002
          Since i have the suspicion that everyone just deletes my posted
          playlists [plug: you shouldn't necessarily just dump them. i try to
          do extensive reviews or interviews etc. so its not just a list] here
          is my year-end list as supplied to a Dutch music trade jrnl for their
          annual vote tally...

          i also judge a disc by listenability [i.e., how often i go back to it
          on headphones or when guests are over] vs surprising inventiveness of
          sound vs transgressive energy vs the otherness-obscurity factor...

          bart / wreck this mess-amsterdam

          If you'd like to know more [or less!] about any of the below. don't
          hesitate to ask off-list.

          1. "Matrix" > Ryoji Ikeda [Touch]
          2. "Sah? / 5_24" > Indopepsychics vs Robert Henke [Progressive Form]
          3. "Staedtizism" > Various Artists [~scape]
          4. "Dub this Net: Altered Connection 1" > Various Artists [Hypertunez]
          5. "Select Cuts from Blood & Fire: Chapter Two" > Various Artists [Echo Beach]
          6. "Bip Hop Generation vols. 1-4" > Various Artists [Bip Hop / Bleep]
          7. "Shallow & Profound" > Yonderboi [Ugar]
          8. "King Jammy Meets Dry & Heavy in the Jaws of the Tiger" > King
          Jammy vs Dry & Heavy [BSI]
          9. "Your Favourite London Sounds" > compiled by Peter Cusack [London
          Musician's Collective]
          10. "Julie B. Bonnie" > Julie B. Bonnie [Island]

          -----

          11. "Three the Hard Way" > DJ Scud vs Bombardier vs Nitro [Cross Fade
          Entertainment]
          12. "I Love Serge: Electronica Gainsbourg" > Various Artists [Universal]
          13. "Bit Streams" > Various Artists [JdK / Whitney Museum]
          14. "Claire de Terre" > Robert Normandeau [Empreintes Digitales]
          15. "Pole R" > Pole [~scape]
          16. "The City's Collapsing [But Not Tonight]" > Zorn [Lux Nigra]
          17. "Don't Dolby the Bedroom Composers" > Morphine Boutique [tete-a-tete]
          18. "L'Autre Nuit" > Phil Von & the Gnawa Musicians of Fes [Prikosnovenie]
          19. "Skandinavian" > Penumbra [Iris Light]
          20. "Electronomicon" > Pitch Black [Kog]
          21. "State of the Union 200.1" > Various Artists [EMF]
          22. "Famous Aspect" > Various Artists [Mille Plateaux]
          23. "Ten Thousand Shades of Blue" > Richard Lainhart [XI Records]
          24. "My Life in the Gush of Boasts" > Scott Marshall [Paniculture]
          25. "Handle With Care" > EZ3kiel [Jarring Effects]
          26. "We Are Your Friends" > Die Trip Computer Die [Alcohol]
          27. "Orange Noise" > Maschinenschlosser [Dbelltime]


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Vincent Bergeron
          I agree for Le Tigre which previous record was better and even there quiet a record of few listens only. But, Missy E made some real creative hip-hop. All
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 6, 2002
            I agree for Le Tigre which previous record was better and even there quiet a record of few listens only.

            But, Missy E made some real creative hip-hop. All right, there's a load of creative hip-hop lately, but it's certainly not crap because it sell well. This pro-underground attitude is no better than the opposite. I think the record deserve to be in this top, not that high though...
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: ralph2319311
            To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 7:59 PM
            Subject: [thewire] year end list


            ...Missy "F"in Elliot-#8?? Jay zzzzzz??? Le tigre?? Shite, Shite,
            Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite...Cannibal Bollocks?? Give me an "F"in
            break pu-leeeze!!!! Every year the quality of the year end list seems
            to sink lower and lower and things start to get more and more
            commercial. People...we don't have to go out of our way to prove how
            open minded we are by pretending to like worthless cack. How many of
            you are actually going to be listening to the Missy E record a few
            years from now? It's disposable tripe on par with Britney, etc. And I
            really doubt all of you Missy E lovers out there would be so into her
            if Ian Pinprick didn't write her up in the rag. He should have saved
            that review for Uncut instead of The Wire.


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            ------------------------------
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Gary Atkins
            Bart- Dismiss your suspicion. Yours is one of the only playlists that I do pay attention to...and learn from. Please continue. Gary ...
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
              Bart-
              Dismiss your suspicion. Yours is one of the only playlists that I do pay
              attention to...and learn from. Please continue.

              Gary


              >From: ninplant@...
              >Reply-To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
              >To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: [thewire] Re: year end list
              >Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 13:23:19 +0100
              >
              >Since i have the suspicion that everyone just deletes my posted
              >playlists [plug: you shouldn't necessarily just dump them. i try to
              >do extensive reviews or interviews etc. so its not just a list] here
              >is my year-end list as supplied to a Dutch music trade jrnl for their
              >annual vote tally...
              >
              >i also judge a disc by listenability [i.e., how often i go back to it
              >on headphones or when guests are over] vs surprising inventiveness of
              >sound vs transgressive energy vs the otherness-obscurity factor...
              >
              >bart / wreck this mess-amsterdam
              >
              >

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            • Simon Smith
              sorry ... you (in the vous sense) are often men of impeccable taste, but in this case you re just wrong (though I suspect we ve been here before). the Missy
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
                sorry ... you (in the 'vous' sense) are often men of impeccable taste, but
                in this case you're just wrong (though I suspect we've been here before).
                the Missy E album is one of the weirdest commercial hit records in a long
                time and is well worthy of top-ending the list. I'm not even going to bother
                responding to the idea that some of us only like it because of Penman's
                review ... it was a route throught hip-hop to jazz that got me into a lot of
                wire stuff in the first place.

                And I really can't see how anyone can talk about 'commercial' music, and
                then express an interest in Electralene, who have made a great record, but
                are hardly ground-breaking (ditto Low, Will Oldham etc ... all good, but not
                really cutting edge).

                Without wishing to drag up an old argument, the only obvious difference
                between the not-very-cutting-edge Missy and Jay Z and the
                not-very-cutting-edge Electralene and Will Oldham (obviously there are
                stylistic differences, but that didn't appear to be your complaint, given
                that you all seem to have wide-ranging tastes) is one of skin colour and
                obviously that's NOT what you're basing your judgement on (no sarcasm
                intended, honestly!!!) So what IS the problem?


                >From: "A.S. Van Dorston" <anthony@...>
                >Reply-To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                >To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [thewire] year end list
                >Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 20:41:52 -0600
                >
                >Actually I believe Simon Reynolds wrote the Missy E review for Uncut,
                >another longtime Wire writer. He also gave the Jay-Z album five
                >stars. Strange innit. To take the edge off their snobbery, they figure
                >'Black music' has another "otherness" that it's still cool, so that they
                >don't focus entirely on white, uptight avant gaaarde.
                >
                >
                >I believe there should be variety, but Missy and Jay-Z aren't necessarily
                >the best choices. There's gotta be some balance between the disposable fun
                >stuff and the experimental pish posh that one rarely listens to but looks
                >pretty on your shelf.
                >
                >What would you vote for?
                >
                >At 12:59 AM 1/6/02 +0000, you wrote:
                > >...Missy "F"in Elliot-#8?? Jay zzzzzz??? Le tigre?? Shite, Shite,
                > >Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite...Cannibal Bollocks?? Give me an "F"in
                > >break pu-leeeze!!!! Every year the quality of the year end list seems
                > >to sink lower and lower and things start to get more and more
                > >commercial. People...we don't have to go out of our way to prove how
                > >open minded we are by pretending to like worthless cack. How many of
                > >you are actually going to be listening to the Missy E record a few
                > >years from now? It's disposable tripe on par with Britney, etc. And I
                > >really doubt all of you Missy E lovers out there would be so into her
                > >if Ian Pinprick didn't write her up in the rag. He should have saved
                > >that review for Uncut instead of The Wire.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > >TheWire List Info Page: [getting there]
                > >
                > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
                >Fast 'n' Bulbous Music Webzine
                >www.fastnbulbous.com
                >



                _________________________________________________________________
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              • Marc Weidenbaum
                In a word: ditto. I haven t even read the review in question, but I ve been loving that Get Ur Freak On single, and the whole album. Man, pick up the CD
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
                  In a word: ditto. I haven't even read the review in question, but I've been
                  loving that "Get Ur Freak On" single, and the whole album. Man, pick up the
                  CD single and check out the instrumental version. It's splendidly jittery,
                  with these weird silent gaps at the start and this kooky B-movie vibe
                  toward the end. It's only "mainstream" in retrospect -- i.e., because it's
                  popular. There isn't much on pop radio that resembles it.

                  At 11:55 PM 1/7/02 +0000, Simon Smith wrote:
                  >sorry ... you (in the 'vous' sense) are often men of impeccable taste, but
                  >in this case you're just wrong (though I suspect we've been here before).
                  >the Missy E album is one of the weirdest commercial hit records in a long
                  >time and is well worthy of top-ending the list. I'm not even going to bother
                  >responding to the idea that some of us only like it because of Penman's
                  >review ... it was a route throught hip-hop to jazz that got me into a lot of
                  >wire stuff in the first place.
                  >
                  >And I really can't see how anyone can talk about 'commercial' music, and
                  >then express an interest in Electralene, who have made a great record, but
                  >are hardly ground-breaking (ditto Low, Will Oldham etc ... all good, but not
                  >really cutting edge).
                  >
                  >Without wishing to drag up an old argument, the only obvious difference
                  >between the not-very-cutting-edge Missy and Jay Z and the
                  >not-very-cutting-edge Electralene and Will Oldham (obviously there are
                  >stylistic differences, but that didn't appear to be your complaint, given
                  >that you all seem to have wide-ranging tastes) is one of skin colour and
                  >obviously that's NOT what you're basing your judgement on (no sarcasm
                  >intended, honestly!!!) So what IS the problem?


                  - - -
                  Marc Weidenbaum
                  www.disquiet.com
                • A.S. Van Dorston
                  Listen to the entire Missy Elliott album and it s not as consistent as Supa Dupa Fly, but better than her second album. I think it was good -- I ranked it
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
                    Listen to the entire Missy Elliott album and it's not as consistent as Supa
                    Dupa Fly, but better than her second album. I think it was good -- I
                    ranked it about 81 in my list. I think my original question was, is it
                    possible that Miss E, Jay-Z and Cannibal Ox were near the top of the lists
                    because they were the few token black artists, so they carried extra weight
                    in some minds? Let's say if those albums hovered just below a critic's top
                    10 or 20, they might be accused of having homogenous taste. So perhaps the
                    ranking gets inflated for the sake of "balance." Or perhaps not. Why not
                    put N*E*R*D at the top -- is it possible they aren't "black" enough,
                    because their album represents a synthesis with rock music, which is
                    considered "white," despite the valiant efforts of Hendrix, Isley Bros,
                    Funkadelic, Bad Brains and now Black Jack Johnson Project, to reclaim it?

                    Just questions, not any sort of theory.

                    By the way, Black Jack Johnson Project is on tour now, playing on Wed. at
                    Metro in Chicago. It's Mos Def (Black Star), Bernie Worrell (P-Funk), Will
                    Calhoun (Living Colour), Dr. Know (Bad Brains) and Doug Wimbish. Teach
                    those punkass rap-rockers how it's done.

                    Fast 'n' Bulbous Review
                    N*E*R*D, In Search Of . . . [U.S. Version] (Virgin) 10-
                    N*E*R*D, In Search Of . . . [UK Version] (Virgin) 9+

                    "No-one Ever Really Dies," says ultra slick hip hop producers Pharrell
                    Williams and Chad Hugo, a.k.a. The Neptunes, a.k.a. N*E*R*D, they're just
                    reborn into a hot rock band. Those expecting the same bouncy mainstream
                    production that made big hits for Kelis, Jay-Z, Mystikal, Beenie Man and
                    Ludacris will be surprised by the visceral, dirty feel of this music.
                    Virgin released In Search Of last year against the band's wishes. The
                    domestic version is quite a bit different. Listening to the two
                    side-by-side, track-for-track, I can see how N*E*R*D would be pissed. It
                    sounds like the UK version is a demo. A very polished demo, but two
                    dimensional when compared to the fullness of the US version. The awkward
                    skits were taken out and the song lengths tightened. Most importantly, they
                    replace the stiff, dated drum machine with a real drummer. Many tracks that
                    recalled early 80s electro, now sound fresher. And they swing. And they
                    rock. Hell, sometimes they destroy. The new and improved N*E*R*D sounds
                    both looser and tighter, with a harder overall mix. Besides the lame skits,
                    nothing is missed from the previous version. All the cool samples and synth
                    lines are intact. The end result is a stunning album that updates the
                    spirit of Sly & The Family Stone, The Isley Brothers, George Clinton's
                    Parliament-Funkadelic, Curtis Mayfield and Prince's more rockist moments,
                    without plundering them for musical ideas. They also strive to bring back
                    the lyrical weight of prime seventies Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder, with
                    their own brand of Buddhist-B-boy social consciousness. While it's tough to
                    top the masters, N*E*R*D comes close. "Lapdance" is a not-quite successful
                    metaphor for politicians as 'ho's, but the intensity of the music brings it
                    up a level, rivaling the urgency of Public Enemy circa 1989. A delicate
                    Duke Ellington "Caravan" synth melody during the chorus is a brilliant
                    touch. "Things Are Getting Better" recalls the sunny, sing-songy hip hop of
                    A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul and The Jungle Brothers. The rapping is
                    nimble and witty, the synth lines fat and heavy, and the rhythm funky as
                    hell. I look forward to the extended dance mix. In the sarcastically
                    chivalrous "Brain" ("I just love your brain"), they take a choppy rhythm
                    guitar line similar to the recent P. Diddy single and space and drag the
                    chorus like a psychedelic garage nugget. The new version adds some prime
                    scratching near the end. "Provider" is one of the few tracks that don't
                    differ too much from the original version. It's a blues ballad that tells a
                    dealer's tale in the tradition of Curtis Mayfield's Superfly. With a couple
                    new wave breaks, the song is moving. "Truth Or Dare" vastly improves the
                    old version by adding heavy staccato strings used like a guitar symphony
                    adding much needed dramatic effect. "Tape You" gives a new meaning to home
                    taping, when the singer's come on is to ask her to let him watch her kick
                    it all night, to a slinky, sexy, rubbery rhythm, of course. "Baby Doll"
                    adds an awesome, heavy bassline to the lightly loping reggae-ish synth
                    lines. "Am I High," which was originally a sleepy, stoned groove, added a
                    harder funk edge. "Rock Star" takes on the collective egos of N*E*R*D's
                    music biz peers and completely shreds them to pieces. The power of the
                    original version is magnified by a savage Bad Brains-like guitar and drums
                    riff, following the introduction, "Fuckin' posers!" "Bobby James" is yet
                    another peak, a first-person narrative junkie blues about a 17 year-old in
                    a downward spiral. It avoids cliché and schmaltz by focusing on believable,
                    realistic details, carried by an elegiac high-pitched chorus that truly
                    rivals Curtis Mayfield. The album closes on another uplifting note with
                    "Stay Together," complete with the best use of snare drums since U2's
                    "Sunday Bloody Sunday." The song builds and holds an ecstatic level with
                    yelps, Beatles harmonies and keyboards, and then winds down to a single
                    voice. In an era when pop artists say and mean nothing, N*E*R*D raises the
                    bar. Even when measured against heavyweight classics of the past, In Search
                    Of . . . is a massive album.

                    At 06:22 PM 1/7/02 -0600, you wrote:
                    >In a word: ditto. I haven't even read the review in question, but I've been
                    >loving that "Get Ur Freak On" single, and the whole album. Man, pick up the
                    >CD single and check out the instrumental version. It's splendidly jittery,
                    >with these weird silent gaps at the start and this kooky B-movie vibe
                    >toward the end. It's only "mainstream" in retrospect -- i.e., because it's
                    >popular. There isn't much on pop radio that resembles it.
                    >
                    >At 11:55 PM 1/7/02 +0000, Simon Smith wrote:
                    >
                    > >Without wishing to drag up an old argument, the only obvious difference
                    > >between the not-very-cutting-edge Missy and Jay Z and the
                    > >not-very-cutting-edge Electralene and Will Oldham (obviously there are
                    > >stylistic differences, but that didn't appear to be your complaint, given
                    > >that you all seem to have wide-ranging tastes) is one of skin colour and
                    > >obviously that's NOT what you're basing your judgement on (no sarcasm
                    > >intended, honestly!!!) So what IS the problem?



                    Fast 'n' Bulbous Music Webzine
                    www.fastnbulbous.com


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Marc Weidenbaum
                    N.E.R.D. s In Search Of is a great record. It didn t come out in the U.S. yet, I don t think, aside from the Lapdance single. It s due out later this month
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
                      N.E.R.D.'s 'In Search Of' is a great record. It didn't come out in the U.S.
                      yet, I don't think, aside from the "Lapdance" single. It's due out later
                      this month or early next.

                      Marc

                      At 07:38 PM 1/7/02 -0600, A.S. Van Dorston wrote:
                      >Listen to the entire Missy Elliott album and it's not as consistent as Supa
                      >Dupa Fly, but better than her second album. I think it was good -- I
                      >ranked it about 81 in my list. I think my original question was, is it
                      >possible that Miss E, Jay-Z and Cannibal Ox were near the top of the lists
                      >because they were the few token black artists, so they carried extra weight
                      >in some minds? Let's say if those albums hovered just below a critic's top
                      >10 or 20, they might be accused of having homogenous taste. So perhaps the
                      >ranking gets inflated for the sake of "balance." Or perhaps not. Why not
                      >put N*E*R*D at the top -- is it possible they aren't "black" enough,
                      >because their album represents a synthesis with rock music, which is
                      >considered "white," despite the valiant efforts of Hendrix, Isley Bros,
                      >Funkadelic, Bad Brains and now Black Jack Johnson Project, to reclaim it?
                      >
                      >Just questions, not any sort of theory.
                      >
                      >...

                      - - -
                      Marc Weidenbaum
                      www.disquiet.com
                    • A.S. Van Dorston
                      It came out in UK and made the lists of The Wire, NME, MOJO and possibly Uncut and Q, but usually not as high up as Missy or Jay-Z. You ll be happy to know the
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
                        It came out in UK and made the lists of The Wire, NME, MOJO and possibly
                        Uncut and Q, but usually not as high up as Missy or Jay-Z.

                        You'll be happy to know the U.S. version is far superior to the UK version
                        (see review in original post, or www.fastnbulbous.com/nerd_in.htm)

                        Tony

                        At 08:02 PM 1/7/02 -0600, you wrote:
                        >N.E.R.D.'s 'In Search Of' is a great record. It didn't come out in the U.S.
                        >yet, I don't think, aside from the "Lapdance" single. It's due out later
                        >this month or early next.
                        >
                        >Marc
                        >
                        >At 07:38 PM 1/7/02 -0600, A.S. Van Dorston wrote:
                        > >Listen to the entire Missy Elliott album and it's not as consistent as Supa
                        > >Dupa Fly, but better than her second album. I think it was good -- I
                        > >ranked it about 81 in my list. I think my original question was, is it
                        > >possible that Miss E, Jay-Z and Cannibal Ox were near the top of the lists
                        > >because they were the few token black artists, so they carried extra weight
                        > >in some minds? Let's say if those albums hovered just below a critic's top
                        > >10 or 20, they might be accused of having homogenous taste. So perhaps the
                        > >ranking gets inflated for the sake of "balance." Or perhaps not. Why not
                        > >put N*E*R*D at the top -- is it possible they aren't "black" enough,
                        > >because their album represents a synthesis with rock music, which is
                        > >considered "white," despite the valiant efforts of Hendrix, Isley Bros,
                        > >Funkadelic, Bad Brains and now Black Jack Johnson Project, to reclaim it?
                        > >
                        > >Just questions, not any sort of theory.
                        > >
                        > >...
                        >
                        > - - -
                        >Marc Weidenbaum
                        >www.disquiet.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                      • Vincent Bergeron
                        ... not ... I think very little records are groundbreaking. Few records this year, that s the thing. The Acid Mothers Temple by example are nice wall of
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
                          >
                          > And I really can't see how anyone can talk about 'commercial' music, and
                          > then express an interest in Electralene, who have made a great record, but
                          > are hardly ground-breaking (ditto Low, Will Oldham etc ... all good, but
                          not
                          > really cutting edge).
                          >

                          I think very little records are groundbreaking. Few records this year,
                          that's the thing. The Acid Mothers Temple by example are nice wall of
                          sounds, but nothing new under the sun , Glenn Branca, Sonic Youth, My Bloody
                          Valentine, old psychedelic...

                          -------Vincent Bergeron-------
                          vincent.bergeron2@...
                          ------------------------------
                          http://www.altmuziq.cjb.net
                          http://www.mp3.com/Vincent
                          http://www.mp3.com/collageseries
                          http://vincentbergeron.cjb.net/index.htm
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