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year end list

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  • ralph2319311
    ...Missy F in Elliot-#8?? Jay zzzzzz??? Le tigre?? Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite...Cannibal Bollocks?? Give me an F in break pu-leeeze!!!! Every
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 5, 2002
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      ...Missy "F"in Elliot-#8?? Jay zzzzzz??? Le tigre?? Shite, Shite,
      Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite...Cannibal Bollocks?? Give me an "F"in
      break pu-leeeze!!!! Every year the quality of the year end list seems
      to sink lower and lower and things start to get more and more
      commercial. People...we don't have to go out of our way to prove how
      open minded we are by pretending to like worthless cack. How many of
      you are actually going to be listening to the Missy E record a few
      years from now? It's disposable tripe on par with Britney, etc. And I
      really doubt all of you Missy E lovers out there would be so into her
      if Ian Pinprick didn't write her up in the rag. He should have saved
      that review for Uncut instead of The Wire.
    • A.S. Van Dorston
      Actually I believe Simon Reynolds wrote the Missy E review for Uncut, another longtime Wire writer. He also gave the Jay-Z album five stars. Strange innit.
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 5, 2002
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        Actually I believe Simon Reynolds wrote the Missy E review for Uncut,
        another longtime Wire writer. He also gave the Jay-Z album five
        stars. Strange innit. To take the edge off their snobbery, they figure
        'Black music' has another "otherness" that it's still cool, so that they
        don't focus entirely on white, uptight avant gaaarde.


        I believe there should be variety, but Missy and Jay-Z aren't necessarily
        the best choices. There's gotta be some balance between the disposable fun
        stuff and the experimental pish posh that one rarely listens to but looks
        pretty on your shelf.

        What would you vote for?

        At 12:59 AM 1/6/02 +0000, you wrote:
        >...Missy "F"in Elliot-#8?? Jay zzzzzz??? Le tigre?? Shite, Shite,
        >Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite...Cannibal Bollocks?? Give me an "F"in
        >break pu-leeeze!!!! Every year the quality of the year end list seems
        >to sink lower and lower and things start to get more and more
        >commercial. People...we don't have to go out of our way to prove how
        >open minded we are by pretending to like worthless cack. How many of
        >you are actually going to be listening to the Missy E record a few
        >years from now? It's disposable tripe on par with Britney, etc. And I
        >really doubt all of you Missy E lovers out there would be so into her
        >if Ian Pinprick didn't write her up in the rag. He should have saved
        >that review for Uncut instead of The Wire.
        >
        >
        >
        >UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >TheWire List Info Page: [getting there]
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



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        www.fastnbulbous.com
      • ralph2319311
        Ian Penman writes for Uncut also, and I meant he should have put the Missy E review in that magazine instead of The Wire. Speaking of reviews Uncut blows. 4
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 5, 2002
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          Ian Penman writes for Uncut also, and I meant he should have put
          the Missy E "review" in that magazine instead of The Wire. Speaking
          of reviews Uncut blows. 4 stars for Hall and Oates, 2 stars for Syd
          Barrett. Yah, uh-huh. I agree with your comment about "otherness".
          The Wire ritually disses English Psychedlic music. In the last three
          issues they dismissed,with a sneer, the Nuggets II box, the Mojo Acid
          drops box, and the British Psychedelic compilation. I don't think
          they even listened to the entire sets. They stated almost everyone on
          the Nuggets II box was a careerist, except for a few of the Japanese
          bands. Yeah, one forty five release, then disappearing is sure
          careerism. But the shambly Japanese cack which is a poor imitation of
          the British/American psych rates highly because of the sense
          of "other" the reviewer gets from it. Not everything on the
          compilations is great, but there is some FUN stuff to listen to, and
          for fun listening, I'll take it any day of the week over Missy E or
          some such bog-standard product foisted on a guillible public. I
          wonder how long it will be before the used bins are overflowing with
          Missy E's latest opus? And why can't experimental music be fun
          also? --- In thewire@y..., "A.S. Van Dorston" <anthony@f...> wrote:
          > Actually I believe Simon Reynolds wrote the Missy E review for
          Uncut,
          > another longtime Wire writer. He also gave the Jay-Z album five
          > stars. Strange innit. To take the edge off their snobbery, they
          figure
          > 'Black music' has another "otherness" that it's still cool, so that
          they
          > don't focus entirely on white, uptight avant gaaarde.
          >
          >
          > I believe there should be variety, but Missy and Jay-Z aren't
          necessarily
          > the best choices. There's gotta be some balance between the
          disposable fun
          > stuff and the experimental pish posh that one rarely listens to but
          looks
          > pretty on your shelf.
          >
          > What would you vote for?
          >
          > At 12:59 AM 1/6/02 +0000, you wrote:
          > >...Missy "F"in Elliot-#8?? Jay zzzzzz??? Le tigre?? Shite, Shite,
          > >Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite...Cannibal Bollocks?? Give me an "F"in
          > >break pu-leeeze!!!! Every year the quality of the year end list
          seems
          > >to sink lower and lower and things start to get more and more
          > >commercial. People...we don't have to go out of our way to prove
          how
          > >open minded we are by pretending to like worthless cack. How many
          of
          > >you are actually going to be listening to the Missy E record a few
          > >years from now? It's disposable tripe on par with Britney, etc.
          And I
          > >really doubt all of you Missy E lovers out there would be so into
          her
          > >if Ian Pinprick didn't write her up in the rag. He should have
          saved
          > >that review for Uncut instead of The Wire.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@y...
          > >
          > >TheWire List Info Page: [getting there]
          > >
          > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          > Fast 'n' Bulbous Music Webzine
          > www.fastnbulbous.com
        • Rob Thornton
          ... First of all, you re assuming that Wire readers learned about her from the magazine, Ralph, and that isn t so. I heard the Missy E singles on the radio (in
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 5, 2002
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            On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, ralph2319311 wrote:

            > How many of you are actually going to be listening to the Missy E
            > record a few years from now? It's disposable tripe on par with Britney,
            > etc. And I really doubt all of you Missy E lovers out there would be so
            > into her if Ian Pinprick didn't write her up in the rag.

            First of all, you're assuming that Wire readers learned about her from the
            magazine, Ralph, and that isn't so. I heard the Missy E singles on the
            radio (in the US) and never read the Wire article.

            Next, I think you're quite wrong about Missy E and her producer
            Timbaland--her songs are quite Wire-worthy! Innovative & twisted
            funk riddims, neat sound textures, you've heard my bit before. If lyrics
            were the only thing that counted, lots of '60s psychedelic rock
            would be right out, right?

            And finally, I must confess my sins to Ralph: I'm an American honky who
            enjoys black music. One day, my Anglo-Saxon purity [smirk] withered away
            somehow and I discovered a love for rap, R&B, funk, jazz, the "blues"
            (you know, the stuff that was a big influence on rock & roll), and so on.

            Unfortunately for the British National Front, the Christian Identity
            folks, and the rest of "the race," I'm not planning to recover my lost
            purity, wherever and whatever it is.

            you can wag your tail/but i ain't gonna feed you no more,

            rob t.
          • ninplant@xs4all.nl
            Since i have the suspicion that everyone just deletes my posted playlists [plug: you shouldn t necessarily just dump them. i try to do extensive reviews or
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 6, 2002
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              Since i have the suspicion that everyone just deletes my posted
              playlists [plug: you shouldn't necessarily just dump them. i try to
              do extensive reviews or interviews etc. so its not just a list] here
              is my year-end list as supplied to a Dutch music trade jrnl for their
              annual vote tally...

              i also judge a disc by listenability [i.e., how often i go back to it
              on headphones or when guests are over] vs surprising inventiveness of
              sound vs transgressive energy vs the otherness-obscurity factor...

              bart / wreck this mess-amsterdam

              If you'd like to know more [or less!] about any of the below. don't
              hesitate to ask off-list.

              1. "Matrix" > Ryoji Ikeda [Touch]
              2. "Sah? / 5_24" > Indopepsychics vs Robert Henke [Progressive Form]
              3. "Staedtizism" > Various Artists [~scape]
              4. "Dub this Net: Altered Connection 1" > Various Artists [Hypertunez]
              5. "Select Cuts from Blood & Fire: Chapter Two" > Various Artists [Echo Beach]
              6. "Bip Hop Generation vols. 1-4" > Various Artists [Bip Hop / Bleep]
              7. "Shallow & Profound" > Yonderboi [Ugar]
              8. "King Jammy Meets Dry & Heavy in the Jaws of the Tiger" > King
              Jammy vs Dry & Heavy [BSI]
              9. "Your Favourite London Sounds" > compiled by Peter Cusack [London
              Musician's Collective]
              10. "Julie B. Bonnie" > Julie B. Bonnie [Island]

              -----

              11. "Three the Hard Way" > DJ Scud vs Bombardier vs Nitro [Cross Fade
              Entertainment]
              12. "I Love Serge: Electronica Gainsbourg" > Various Artists [Universal]
              13. "Bit Streams" > Various Artists [JdK / Whitney Museum]
              14. "Claire de Terre" > Robert Normandeau [Empreintes Digitales]
              15. "Pole R" > Pole [~scape]
              16. "The City's Collapsing [But Not Tonight]" > Zorn [Lux Nigra]
              17. "Don't Dolby the Bedroom Composers" > Morphine Boutique [tete-a-tete]
              18. "L'Autre Nuit" > Phil Von & the Gnawa Musicians of Fes [Prikosnovenie]
              19. "Skandinavian" > Penumbra [Iris Light]
              20. "Electronomicon" > Pitch Black [Kog]
              21. "State of the Union 200.1" > Various Artists [EMF]
              22. "Famous Aspect" > Various Artists [Mille Plateaux]
              23. "Ten Thousand Shades of Blue" > Richard Lainhart [XI Records]
              24. "My Life in the Gush of Boasts" > Scott Marshall [Paniculture]
              25. "Handle With Care" > EZ3kiel [Jarring Effects]
              26. "We Are Your Friends" > Die Trip Computer Die [Alcohol]
              27. "Orange Noise" > Maschinenschlosser [Dbelltime]


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Vincent Bergeron
              I agree for Le Tigre which previous record was better and even there quiet a record of few listens only. But, Missy E made some real creative hip-hop. All
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 6, 2002
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                I agree for Le Tigre which previous record was better and even there quiet a record of few listens only.

                But, Missy E made some real creative hip-hop. All right, there's a load of creative hip-hop lately, but it's certainly not crap because it sell well. This pro-underground attitude is no better than the opposite. I think the record deserve to be in this top, not that high though...
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: ralph2319311
                To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 7:59 PM
                Subject: [thewire] year end list


                ...Missy "F"in Elliot-#8?? Jay zzzzzz??? Le tigre?? Shite, Shite,
                Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite...Cannibal Bollocks?? Give me an "F"in
                break pu-leeeze!!!! Every year the quality of the year end list seems
                to sink lower and lower and things start to get more and more
                commercial. People...we don't have to go out of our way to prove how
                open minded we are by pretending to like worthless cack. How many of
                you are actually going to be listening to the Missy E record a few
                years from now? It's disposable tripe on par with Britney, etc. And I
                really doubt all of you Missy E lovers out there would be so into her
                if Ian Pinprick didn't write her up in the rag. He should have saved
                that review for Uncut instead of The Wire.


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                -------Vincent Bergeron-------
                vincent.bergeron2@...
                ------------------------------
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Gary Atkins
                Bart- Dismiss your suspicion. Yours is one of the only playlists that I do pay attention to...and learn from. Please continue. Gary ...
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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                  Bart-
                  Dismiss your suspicion. Yours is one of the only playlists that I do pay
                  attention to...and learn from. Please continue.

                  Gary


                  >From: ninplant@...
                  >Reply-To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: [thewire] Re: year end list
                  >Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 13:23:19 +0100
                  >
                  >Since i have the suspicion that everyone just deletes my posted
                  >playlists [plug: you shouldn't necessarily just dump them. i try to
                  >do extensive reviews or interviews etc. so its not just a list] here
                  >is my year-end list as supplied to a Dutch music trade jrnl for their
                  >annual vote tally...
                  >
                  >i also judge a disc by listenability [i.e., how often i go back to it
                  >on headphones or when guests are over] vs surprising inventiveness of
                  >sound vs transgressive energy vs the otherness-obscurity factor...
                  >
                  >bart / wreck this mess-amsterdam
                  >
                  >

                  _________________________________________________________________
                  Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
                • Simon Smith
                  sorry ... you (in the vous sense) are often men of impeccable taste, but in this case you re just wrong (though I suspect we ve been here before). the Missy
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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                    sorry ... you (in the 'vous' sense) are often men of impeccable taste, but
                    in this case you're just wrong (though I suspect we've been here before).
                    the Missy E album is one of the weirdest commercial hit records in a long
                    time and is well worthy of top-ending the list. I'm not even going to bother
                    responding to the idea that some of us only like it because of Penman's
                    review ... it was a route throught hip-hop to jazz that got me into a lot of
                    wire stuff in the first place.

                    And I really can't see how anyone can talk about 'commercial' music, and
                    then express an interest in Electralene, who have made a great record, but
                    are hardly ground-breaking (ditto Low, Will Oldham etc ... all good, but not
                    really cutting edge).

                    Without wishing to drag up an old argument, the only obvious difference
                    between the not-very-cutting-edge Missy and Jay Z and the
                    not-very-cutting-edge Electralene and Will Oldham (obviously there are
                    stylistic differences, but that didn't appear to be your complaint, given
                    that you all seem to have wide-ranging tastes) is one of skin colour and
                    obviously that's NOT what you're basing your judgement on (no sarcasm
                    intended, honestly!!!) So what IS the problem?


                    >From: "A.S. Van Dorston" <anthony@...>
                    >Reply-To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: Re: [thewire] year end list
                    >Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 20:41:52 -0600
                    >
                    >Actually I believe Simon Reynolds wrote the Missy E review for Uncut,
                    >another longtime Wire writer. He also gave the Jay-Z album five
                    >stars. Strange innit. To take the edge off their snobbery, they figure
                    >'Black music' has another "otherness" that it's still cool, so that they
                    >don't focus entirely on white, uptight avant gaaarde.
                    >
                    >
                    >I believe there should be variety, but Missy and Jay-Z aren't necessarily
                    >the best choices. There's gotta be some balance between the disposable fun
                    >stuff and the experimental pish posh that one rarely listens to but looks
                    >pretty on your shelf.
                    >
                    >What would you vote for?
                    >
                    >At 12:59 AM 1/6/02 +0000, you wrote:
                    > >...Missy "F"in Elliot-#8?? Jay zzzzzz??? Le tigre?? Shite, Shite,
                    > >Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite...Cannibal Bollocks?? Give me an "F"in
                    > >break pu-leeeze!!!! Every year the quality of the year end list seems
                    > >to sink lower and lower and things start to get more and more
                    > >commercial. People...we don't have to go out of our way to prove how
                    > >open minded we are by pretending to like worthless cack. How many of
                    > >you are actually going to be listening to the Missy E record a few
                    > >years from now? It's disposable tripe on par with Britney, etc. And I
                    > >really doubt all of you Missy E lovers out there would be so into her
                    > >if Ian Pinprick didn't write her up in the rag. He should have saved
                    > >that review for Uncut instead of The Wire.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > >TheWire List Info Page: [getting there]
                    > >
                    > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Fast 'n' Bulbous Music Webzine
                    >www.fastnbulbous.com
                    >



                    _________________________________________________________________
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                  • Marc Weidenbaum
                    In a word: ditto. I haven t even read the review in question, but I ve been loving that Get Ur Freak On single, and the whole album. Man, pick up the CD
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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                      In a word: ditto. I haven't even read the review in question, but I've been
                      loving that "Get Ur Freak On" single, and the whole album. Man, pick up the
                      CD single and check out the instrumental version. It's splendidly jittery,
                      with these weird silent gaps at the start and this kooky B-movie vibe
                      toward the end. It's only "mainstream" in retrospect -- i.e., because it's
                      popular. There isn't much on pop radio that resembles it.

                      At 11:55 PM 1/7/02 +0000, Simon Smith wrote:
                      >sorry ... you (in the 'vous' sense) are often men of impeccable taste, but
                      >in this case you're just wrong (though I suspect we've been here before).
                      >the Missy E album is one of the weirdest commercial hit records in a long
                      >time and is well worthy of top-ending the list. I'm not even going to bother
                      >responding to the idea that some of us only like it because of Penman's
                      >review ... it was a route throught hip-hop to jazz that got me into a lot of
                      >wire stuff in the first place.
                      >
                      >And I really can't see how anyone can talk about 'commercial' music, and
                      >then express an interest in Electralene, who have made a great record, but
                      >are hardly ground-breaking (ditto Low, Will Oldham etc ... all good, but not
                      >really cutting edge).
                      >
                      >Without wishing to drag up an old argument, the only obvious difference
                      >between the not-very-cutting-edge Missy and Jay Z and the
                      >not-very-cutting-edge Electralene and Will Oldham (obviously there are
                      >stylistic differences, but that didn't appear to be your complaint, given
                      >that you all seem to have wide-ranging tastes) is one of skin colour and
                      >obviously that's NOT what you're basing your judgement on (no sarcasm
                      >intended, honestly!!!) So what IS the problem?


                      - - -
                      Marc Weidenbaum
                      www.disquiet.com
                    • A.S. Van Dorston
                      Listen to the entire Missy Elliott album and it s not as consistent as Supa Dupa Fly, but better than her second album. I think it was good -- I ranked it
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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                        Listen to the entire Missy Elliott album and it's not as consistent as Supa
                        Dupa Fly, but better than her second album. I think it was good -- I
                        ranked it about 81 in my list. I think my original question was, is it
                        possible that Miss E, Jay-Z and Cannibal Ox were near the top of the lists
                        because they were the few token black artists, so they carried extra weight
                        in some minds? Let's say if those albums hovered just below a critic's top
                        10 or 20, they might be accused of having homogenous taste. So perhaps the
                        ranking gets inflated for the sake of "balance." Or perhaps not. Why not
                        put N*E*R*D at the top -- is it possible they aren't "black" enough,
                        because their album represents a synthesis with rock music, which is
                        considered "white," despite the valiant efforts of Hendrix, Isley Bros,
                        Funkadelic, Bad Brains and now Black Jack Johnson Project, to reclaim it?

                        Just questions, not any sort of theory.

                        By the way, Black Jack Johnson Project is on tour now, playing on Wed. at
                        Metro in Chicago. It's Mos Def (Black Star), Bernie Worrell (P-Funk), Will
                        Calhoun (Living Colour), Dr. Know (Bad Brains) and Doug Wimbish. Teach
                        those punkass rap-rockers how it's done.

                        Fast 'n' Bulbous Review
                        N*E*R*D, In Search Of . . . [U.S. Version] (Virgin) 10-
                        N*E*R*D, In Search Of . . . [UK Version] (Virgin) 9+

                        "No-one Ever Really Dies," says ultra slick hip hop producers Pharrell
                        Williams and Chad Hugo, a.k.a. The Neptunes, a.k.a. N*E*R*D, they're just
                        reborn into a hot rock band. Those expecting the same bouncy mainstream
                        production that made big hits for Kelis, Jay-Z, Mystikal, Beenie Man and
                        Ludacris will be surprised by the visceral, dirty feel of this music.
                        Virgin released In Search Of last year against the band's wishes. The
                        domestic version is quite a bit different. Listening to the two
                        side-by-side, track-for-track, I can see how N*E*R*D would be pissed. It
                        sounds like the UK version is a demo. A very polished demo, but two
                        dimensional when compared to the fullness of the US version. The awkward
                        skits were taken out and the song lengths tightened. Most importantly, they
                        replace the stiff, dated drum machine with a real drummer. Many tracks that
                        recalled early 80s electro, now sound fresher. And they swing. And they
                        rock. Hell, sometimes they destroy. The new and improved N*E*R*D sounds
                        both looser and tighter, with a harder overall mix. Besides the lame skits,
                        nothing is missed from the previous version. All the cool samples and synth
                        lines are intact. The end result is a stunning album that updates the
                        spirit of Sly & The Family Stone, The Isley Brothers, George Clinton's
                        Parliament-Funkadelic, Curtis Mayfield and Prince's more rockist moments,
                        without plundering them for musical ideas. They also strive to bring back
                        the lyrical weight of prime seventies Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder, with
                        their own brand of Buddhist-B-boy social consciousness. While it's tough to
                        top the masters, N*E*R*D comes close. "Lapdance" is a not-quite successful
                        metaphor for politicians as 'ho's, but the intensity of the music brings it
                        up a level, rivaling the urgency of Public Enemy circa 1989. A delicate
                        Duke Ellington "Caravan" synth melody during the chorus is a brilliant
                        touch. "Things Are Getting Better" recalls the sunny, sing-songy hip hop of
                        A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul and The Jungle Brothers. The rapping is
                        nimble and witty, the synth lines fat and heavy, and the rhythm funky as
                        hell. I look forward to the extended dance mix. In the sarcastically
                        chivalrous "Brain" ("I just love your brain"), they take a choppy rhythm
                        guitar line similar to the recent P. Diddy single and space and drag the
                        chorus like a psychedelic garage nugget. The new version adds some prime
                        scratching near the end. "Provider" is one of the few tracks that don't
                        differ too much from the original version. It's a blues ballad that tells a
                        dealer's tale in the tradition of Curtis Mayfield's Superfly. With a couple
                        new wave breaks, the song is moving. "Truth Or Dare" vastly improves the
                        old version by adding heavy staccato strings used like a guitar symphony
                        adding much needed dramatic effect. "Tape You" gives a new meaning to home
                        taping, when the singer's come on is to ask her to let him watch her kick
                        it all night, to a slinky, sexy, rubbery rhythm, of course. "Baby Doll"
                        adds an awesome, heavy bassline to the lightly loping reggae-ish synth
                        lines. "Am I High," which was originally a sleepy, stoned groove, added a
                        harder funk edge. "Rock Star" takes on the collective egos of N*E*R*D's
                        music biz peers and completely shreds them to pieces. The power of the
                        original version is magnified by a savage Bad Brains-like guitar and drums
                        riff, following the introduction, "Fuckin' posers!" "Bobby James" is yet
                        another peak, a first-person narrative junkie blues about a 17 year-old in
                        a downward spiral. It avoids cliché and schmaltz by focusing on believable,
                        realistic details, carried by an elegiac high-pitched chorus that truly
                        rivals Curtis Mayfield. The album closes on another uplifting note with
                        "Stay Together," complete with the best use of snare drums since U2's
                        "Sunday Bloody Sunday." The song builds and holds an ecstatic level with
                        yelps, Beatles harmonies and keyboards, and then winds down to a single
                        voice. In an era when pop artists say and mean nothing, N*E*R*D raises the
                        bar. Even when measured against heavyweight classics of the past, In Search
                        Of . . . is a massive album.

                        At 06:22 PM 1/7/02 -0600, you wrote:
                        >In a word: ditto. I haven't even read the review in question, but I've been
                        >loving that "Get Ur Freak On" single, and the whole album. Man, pick up the
                        >CD single and check out the instrumental version. It's splendidly jittery,
                        >with these weird silent gaps at the start and this kooky B-movie vibe
                        >toward the end. It's only "mainstream" in retrospect -- i.e., because it's
                        >popular. There isn't much on pop radio that resembles it.
                        >
                        >At 11:55 PM 1/7/02 +0000, Simon Smith wrote:
                        >
                        > >Without wishing to drag up an old argument, the only obvious difference
                        > >between the not-very-cutting-edge Missy and Jay Z and the
                        > >not-very-cutting-edge Electralene and Will Oldham (obviously there are
                        > >stylistic differences, but that didn't appear to be your complaint, given
                        > >that you all seem to have wide-ranging tastes) is one of skin colour and
                        > >obviously that's NOT what you're basing your judgement on (no sarcasm
                        > >intended, honestly!!!) So what IS the problem?



                        Fast 'n' Bulbous Music Webzine
                        www.fastnbulbous.com


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Marc Weidenbaum
                        N.E.R.D. s In Search Of is a great record. It didn t come out in the U.S. yet, I don t think, aside from the Lapdance single. It s due out later this month
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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                          N.E.R.D.'s 'In Search Of' is a great record. It didn't come out in the U.S.
                          yet, I don't think, aside from the "Lapdance" single. It's due out later
                          this month or early next.

                          Marc

                          At 07:38 PM 1/7/02 -0600, A.S. Van Dorston wrote:
                          >Listen to the entire Missy Elliott album and it's not as consistent as Supa
                          >Dupa Fly, but better than her second album. I think it was good -- I
                          >ranked it about 81 in my list. I think my original question was, is it
                          >possible that Miss E, Jay-Z and Cannibal Ox were near the top of the lists
                          >because they were the few token black artists, so they carried extra weight
                          >in some minds? Let's say if those albums hovered just below a critic's top
                          >10 or 20, they might be accused of having homogenous taste. So perhaps the
                          >ranking gets inflated for the sake of "balance." Or perhaps not. Why not
                          >put N*E*R*D at the top -- is it possible they aren't "black" enough,
                          >because their album represents a synthesis with rock music, which is
                          >considered "white," despite the valiant efforts of Hendrix, Isley Bros,
                          >Funkadelic, Bad Brains and now Black Jack Johnson Project, to reclaim it?
                          >
                          >Just questions, not any sort of theory.
                          >
                          >...

                          - - -
                          Marc Weidenbaum
                          www.disquiet.com
                        • A.S. Van Dorston
                          It came out in UK and made the lists of The Wire, NME, MOJO and possibly Uncut and Q, but usually not as high up as Missy or Jay-Z. You ll be happy to know the
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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                            It came out in UK and made the lists of The Wire, NME, MOJO and possibly
                            Uncut and Q, but usually not as high up as Missy or Jay-Z.

                            You'll be happy to know the U.S. version is far superior to the UK version
                            (see review in original post, or www.fastnbulbous.com/nerd_in.htm)

                            Tony

                            At 08:02 PM 1/7/02 -0600, you wrote:
                            >N.E.R.D.'s 'In Search Of' is a great record. It didn't come out in the U.S.
                            >yet, I don't think, aside from the "Lapdance" single. It's due out later
                            >this month or early next.
                            >
                            >Marc
                            >
                            >At 07:38 PM 1/7/02 -0600, A.S. Van Dorston wrote:
                            > >Listen to the entire Missy Elliott album and it's not as consistent as Supa
                            > >Dupa Fly, but better than her second album. I think it was good -- I
                            > >ranked it about 81 in my list. I think my original question was, is it
                            > >possible that Miss E, Jay-Z and Cannibal Ox were near the top of the lists
                            > >because they were the few token black artists, so they carried extra weight
                            > >in some minds? Let's say if those albums hovered just below a critic's top
                            > >10 or 20, they might be accused of having homogenous taste. So perhaps the
                            > >ranking gets inflated for the sake of "balance." Or perhaps not. Why not
                            > >put N*E*R*D at the top -- is it possible they aren't "black" enough,
                            > >because their album represents a synthesis with rock music, which is
                            > >considered "white," despite the valiant efforts of Hendrix, Isley Bros,
                            > >Funkadelic, Bad Brains and now Black Jack Johnson Project, to reclaim it?
                            > >
                            > >Just questions, not any sort of theory.
                            > >
                            > >...
                            >
                            > - - -
                            >Marc Weidenbaum
                            >www.disquiet.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            >TheWire List Info Page: [getting there]
                            >
                            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                            Fast 'n' Bulbous Music Webzine
                            www.fastnbulbous.com
                          • Vincent Bergeron
                            ... not ... I think very little records are groundbreaking. Few records this year, that s the thing. The Acid Mothers Temple by example are nice wall of
                            Message 13 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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                              >
                              > And I really can't see how anyone can talk about 'commercial' music, and
                              > then express an interest in Electralene, who have made a great record, but
                              > are hardly ground-breaking (ditto Low, Will Oldham etc ... all good, but
                              not
                              > really cutting edge).
                              >

                              I think very little records are groundbreaking. Few records this year,
                              that's the thing. The Acid Mothers Temple by example are nice wall of
                              sounds, but nothing new under the sun , Glenn Branca, Sonic Youth, My Bloody
                              Valentine, old psychedelic...

                              -------Vincent Bergeron-------
                              vincent.bergeron2@...
                              ------------------------------
                              http://www.altmuziq.cjb.net
                              http://www.mp3.com/Vincent
                              http://www.mp3.com/collageseries
                              http://vincentbergeron.cjb.net/index.htm
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