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Re: [the wire] New Electronica/New Politics

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  • Franco Ingrassia
    ... De: Franco Ingrassia Para: wire@onelist.com Fecha: Miércoles, 06 de Enero de 1999 02:27 a.m. Asunto: [the
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 5, 1999
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      -----Mensaje original-----
      De: Franco Ingrassia <ingrassia@...>
      Para: wire@onelist.com <wire@onelist.com>
      Fecha: Mi�rcoles, 06 de Enero de 1999 02:27 a.m.
      Asunto: [the wire] New Electronica/New Politics


      Harvey said "I think the worst thing that could possibly happen is for art to become a slave to the political. Ideology ends only in one thing:
      mass bloodshed."

      1.
      I think that art becoming a "slave" to the political is not the most interesting thing that coud happen. But a "master/slave" deterministic relationship in not the ONLY possible articulation.
      In many cases in this century, art and politics have shown that, with flexible and dialectics relations, creativity and social change could be respectively empowered.
      For example, the DADA movement at the beginning of XX century, Surrealism in the �30s and Situacionism in the �50s and �60s. This avant-garde movements (without whom ANY actual experimental art is impossible) produced "great art" with a strong political compromise. And I think that Krautrock could have never happened without the libertarian impulse of May �68.
      Counterculture, by itself, implicates a political way of thinking and creating culture.

      2.
      Another thing: politics and ideology are not equal terms. Avant-garde politics refers to the articulation of action and thinking in order to produce revolutionary changes in society. Ideology, on the other hands, refers to a system of beliefs son social groups generate to control and manipulate others. Ideology is always created for the purpouse of domination, while avant-garde politics (theoretically and practically) tends to free ourselves from the actual ideologic hegemony.
    • Harvey Devoe Thornburg
      ... Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I ve always thought that factors such as you describe are the stuff behind politics, or to give it a name,
      Message 2 of 2 , Jan 5, 1999
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        >
        > From: "Franco Ingrassia" <ingrassia@...>
        >
        > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
        >
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        >
        > -----Mensaje original-----
        > De: Franco Ingrassia <ingrassia@...>
        > Para: wire@onelist.com <wire@onelist.com>
        > Fecha: Mi=E9rcoles, 06 de Enero de 1999 02:27 a.m.
        > Asunto: [the wire] New Electronica/New Politics
        >
        >
        > Harvey said "I think the worst thing that could possibly happen is for =
        > art to become a slave to the political. Ideology ends only in one =
        > thing:=20
        > mass bloodshed."
        >
        > 1.
        > I think that art becoming a "slave" to the political is not the most =
        > interesting thing that coud happen. But a "master/slave" deterministic =
        > relationship in not the ONLY possible articulation.
        > In many cases in this century, art and politics have shown that, with =
        > flexible and dialectics relations, creativity and social change could be =
        > respectively empowered.
        > For example, the DADA movement at the beginning of XX century, =
        > Surrealism in the =B430s and Situacionism in the =B450s and =B460s. This =
        > avant-garde movements (without whom ANY actual experimental art is =
        > impossible) produced "great art" with a strong political compromise. And =
        > I think that Krautrock could have never happened without the libertarian =
        > impulse of May =B468.=20
        > Counterculture, by itself, implicates a political way of thinking and =
        > creating culture.

        Thank you for your thoughtful comments.

        I've always thought that factors such as you describe are the stuff
        behind politics, or to give it a name, "metapolitics". I agree this is
        a proper domain for art (not as subject but as an environment for
        art to thrive within). I believe technological issues; the rise of
        digital media etc. is such a metapolitical situation worth exploring
        through sound art, especially because it is so hard to articulate through
        other means.

        > =20
        > 2.
        > Another thing: politics and ideology are not equal terms. Avant-garde =
        > politics refers to the articulation of action and thinking in order to =
        > produce revolutionary changes in society. Ideology, on the other hands, =
        > refers to a system of beliefs son social groups generate to control and =
        > manipulate others. Ideology is always created for the purpouse of =
        > domination, while avant-garde politics (theoretically and practically) =
        > tends to free ourselves from the actual ideologic hegemony.
        > =20
        >

        Again, I find myself in agreement with you, which is why I used the word
        "ideology" in the end.

        --Harvey
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