Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

RE: [thewire] More:Stockhausen the reality

Expand Messages
  • Steeples Paul (Mr PW)
    I can see why people are upset, but frankly I think this is the type of bollocks many people spout when their mouth moves ahead of their brain. Whatever
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 3, 2001
      I can see why people are upset, but frankly I think this is the type of
      bollocks many people spout when their mouth moves ahead of their brain.
      Whatever Stockhausen might have said, I don't see it as being as
      reprehensible as a Hollywood film industry which has based large chunks of
      its output on the representation of thoughtless destruction and death for
      the last twenty years. As people have pointed out before, one aim of art is
      to transcend everyday reality, and the events of 11 September certainly did
      that.

      In any event, surely Stockhausen's statement "Where has he brought me, that
      Lucifer?" tends to reinforce his point that the spirit of mindless
      destruction can break out in anyone. Can everyone on this list, hand on
      heart, say that there wasn't a part of them that viewed the film of the
      events on 11/9 as an aesthetic phenomenon, even as they were aware of the
      real horror being caused. I know I can't...

      Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing Gesang der Junglinge at the Barbican,
      even if no-one else is.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Kurt Hoffman [mailto:supine@...]
      Sent: 03 October 2001 14:30
      To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [thewire] More:Stockhausen the reality


      apologies for my quasi=crosspost (having posted much of this to the
      microsound list):

      an article in the New York Times published subsequent to
      Stockhausen's 'clarification' seems skeptical of his claim that he
      was really talking about Lucifer the whole time.

      Quoting from an article by Anthony Tomassini in last Sunday's Times:

      >Mr. Stockhausen [...]was taking questions before a four- day
      >festival of his works in Hamburg. In disjointed comments that were
      >taped by a German radio station and reported internationally, Mr.
      >Stockhausen, 73, called the attack on the World Trade Center "the
      >greatest work of art that is possible in the whole cosmos."
      >Extending the analogy, he spoke of human minds achieving "something
      >in one act" that "we couldn't even dream of in music," in which
      >"people practice like crazy for 10 years, totally fanatically, for a
      >concert, and then die." Just imagine, he added: "You have people who
      >are so concentrated on one performance, and then 5,000 people are
      >dispatched into eternity, in a single moment. I couldn't do that. In
      >comparison with that, we're nothing as composers."
      >
      >When he realized how the reporters were reacting, he backtracked and
      >asked that his words not be quoted. "Where has he brought me, that
      >Lucifer?" he asked, referring to one of three invented characters,
      >along with Eve and Michael, who regularly figure in his works.
      >
      >It was too late. The Hamburg concerts were abruptly canceled. Mr.
      >Stockhausen left town, refusing further comment. On his Web site
      >(www.stockhausen.org) he protested that his words had been
      >distorted, that he had been speaking metaphorically, that Lucifer,
      >the "cosmic spirit" of anarchy who uses his intelligence "to destroy
      >creation," was the creator of the "satanic composition," that is,
      >the attack. German media and cultural figures continued to condemn
      >him.

      my favorite quote:

      >it is important for artists to reclaim art from such reckless
      >commentary, as Gyorgy Ligeti did recently in suggesting that Mr.
      >Stockhausen be confined to a psychiatric clinic.

      in any case, what we really want to see is a full transcript of his
      press conference. not isolated quotes from reporters, nor
      after-the-fact clarifications from Stockhausen and his supporters.

      k

      UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

      TheWire List Info Page: [getting there]

      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



      This email has been scanned for viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service.

      For further details, please see
      http://www.gsi.gov.uk/main/gncnotices/gncinformationnotice5_2001.pdf.

      In case of problems, please call your organisations IT helpdesk.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • simonsmith@readingchronicle.co.uk
      No Helicopter String Quartet though ... I assume that would be a bit of a security risk in the current circumstances! ____________________Reply
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 3, 2001
        No Helicopter String Quartet though ... I assume that would be a bit of a
        security risk in the current circumstances!

        ____________________Reply Separator____________________
        Subject: RE: [thewire] More:Stockhausen the reality
        Author: paul.steeples@...
        Date: 03/10/2001 15:07

        Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing Gesang der Junglinge at the Barbican,
        even if no-one else is.


        UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        TheWire List Info Page: [getting there]

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



        This email has been scanned for viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service.

        For further details, please see
        http://www.gsi.gov.uk/main/gncnotices/gncinformationnotice5_2001.pdf.

        In case of problems, please call your organisations IT helpdesk.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


        UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        TheWire List Info Page: [getting there]

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Kurt Hoffman
        ... I just reread the Odyssey, and it s a lurid, sexy spectacle of gushing bloodshed and death from cover to cover -- war, accidents, treachery, carnivorous
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 4, 2001
          >I don't see it as being as
          >reprehensible as a Hollywood film industry which has based large chunks of
          >its output on the representation of thoughtless destruction and death for
          >the last twenty years.

          I just reread the Odyssey, and it's a lurid, sexy spectacle of
          gushing bloodshed and death from cover to cover -- war, accidents,
          treachery, carnivorous monsters, vengence...much as I detest
          Hollywood products for their stupidity, "representation of
          thoughtless destruction and death" is an ancient and seemingly
          inevitable feature of storytelling, Hollywood or no Hollywood.

          And, just as reading the Odyssey doesn't make me a sword-wielding,
          breast puncturing, sheep-herd-raiding warrior, watching Die Hard II
          doesn't make most people drive planes into buildings. Even my dog
          knows the difference between a real fight and a pretend "play" fight.

          > As people have pointed out before, one aim of art is
          >to transcend everyday reality, and the events of 11 September certainly did
          >that.

          yet it's crucial to uphold the difference between art and a mass
          extermination of life. blurring the distinction spares us the somber
          task of empathy for the victims.

          kurt
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.