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More:Stockhausen the reality

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  • Дмитрий Ухов
    Thank you, Kraig, here in a Russian segment of the conference we did almost the same comparisons . I also quoted the Jean-Paul Sartre (a.o) appeal to let
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 2, 2001
      Thank you, Kraig,
      here in a Russian segment of the conference we did almost the same
      comparisons
      .
      I also quoted the Jean-Paul Sartre (a.o) appeal to let Jean Genet out of
      jail...
      dmitri
    • Kurt Hoffman
      apologies for my quasi=crosspost (having posted much of this to the microsound list): an article in the New York Times published subsequent to Stockhausen s
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 3, 2001
        apologies for my quasi=crosspost (having posted much of this to the
        microsound list):

        an article in the New York Times published subsequent to
        Stockhausen's 'clarification' seems skeptical of his claim that he
        was really talking about Lucifer the whole time.

        Quoting from an article by Anthony Tomassini in last Sunday's Times:

        >Mr. Stockhausen [...]was taking questions before a four- day
        >festival of his works in Hamburg. In disjointed comments that were
        >taped by a German radio station and reported internationally, Mr.
        >Stockhausen, 73, called the attack on the World Trade Center "the
        >greatest work of art that is possible in the whole cosmos."
        >Extending the analogy, he spoke of human minds achieving "something
        >in one act" that "we couldn't even dream of in music," in which
        >"people practice like crazy for 10 years, totally fanatically, for a
        >concert, and then die." Just imagine, he added: "You have people who
        >are so concentrated on one performance, and then 5,000 people are
        >dispatched into eternity, in a single moment. I couldn't do that. In
        >comparison with that, we're nothing as composers."
        >
        >When he realized how the reporters were reacting, he backtracked and
        >asked that his words not be quoted. "Where has he brought me, that
        >Lucifer?" he asked, referring to one of three invented characters,
        >along with Eve and Michael, who regularly figure in his works.
        >
        >It was too late. The Hamburg concerts were abruptly canceled. Mr.
        >Stockhausen left town, refusing further comment. On his Web site
        >(www.stockhausen.org) he protested that his words had been
        >distorted, that he had been speaking metaphorically, that Lucifer,
        >the "cosmic spirit" of anarchy who uses his intelligence "to destroy
        >creation," was the creator of the "satanic composition," that is,
        >the attack. German media and cultural figures continued to condemn
        >him.

        my favorite quote:

        >it is important for artists to reclaim art from such reckless
        >commentary, as Gyorgy Ligeti did recently in suggesting that Mr.
        >Stockhausen be confined to a psychiatric clinic.

        in any case, what we really want to see is a full transcript of his
        press conference. not isolated quotes from reporters, nor
        after-the-fact clarifications from Stockhausen and his supporters.

        k
      • Steeples Paul (Mr PW)
        I can see why people are upset, but frankly I think this is the type of bollocks many people spout when their mouth moves ahead of their brain. Whatever
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 3, 2001
          I can see why people are upset, but frankly I think this is the type of
          bollocks many people spout when their mouth moves ahead of their brain.
          Whatever Stockhausen might have said, I don't see it as being as
          reprehensible as a Hollywood film industry which has based large chunks of
          its output on the representation of thoughtless destruction and death for
          the last twenty years. As people have pointed out before, one aim of art is
          to transcend everyday reality, and the events of 11 September certainly did
          that.

          In any event, surely Stockhausen's statement "Where has he brought me, that
          Lucifer?" tends to reinforce his point that the spirit of mindless
          destruction can break out in anyone. Can everyone on this list, hand on
          heart, say that there wasn't a part of them that viewed the film of the
          events on 11/9 as an aesthetic phenomenon, even as they were aware of the
          real horror being caused. I know I can't...

          Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing Gesang der Junglinge at the Barbican,
          even if no-one else is.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Kurt Hoffman [mailto:supine@...]
          Sent: 03 October 2001 14:30
          To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [thewire] More:Stockhausen the reality


          apologies for my quasi=crosspost (having posted much of this to the
          microsound list):

          an article in the New York Times published subsequent to
          Stockhausen's 'clarification' seems skeptical of his claim that he
          was really talking about Lucifer the whole time.

          Quoting from an article by Anthony Tomassini in last Sunday's Times:

          >Mr. Stockhausen [...]was taking questions before a four- day
          >festival of his works in Hamburg. In disjointed comments that were
          >taped by a German radio station and reported internationally, Mr.
          >Stockhausen, 73, called the attack on the World Trade Center "the
          >greatest work of art that is possible in the whole cosmos."
          >Extending the analogy, he spoke of human minds achieving "something
          >in one act" that "we couldn't even dream of in music," in which
          >"people practice like crazy for 10 years, totally fanatically, for a
          >concert, and then die." Just imagine, he added: "You have people who
          >are so concentrated on one performance, and then 5,000 people are
          >dispatched into eternity, in a single moment. I couldn't do that. In
          >comparison with that, we're nothing as composers."
          >
          >When he realized how the reporters were reacting, he backtracked and
          >asked that his words not be quoted. "Where has he brought me, that
          >Lucifer?" he asked, referring to one of three invented characters,
          >along with Eve and Michael, who regularly figure in his works.
          >
          >It was too late. The Hamburg concerts were abruptly canceled. Mr.
          >Stockhausen left town, refusing further comment. On his Web site
          >(www.stockhausen.org) he protested that his words had been
          >distorted, that he had been speaking metaphorically, that Lucifer,
          >the "cosmic spirit" of anarchy who uses his intelligence "to destroy
          >creation," was the creator of the "satanic composition," that is,
          >the attack. German media and cultural figures continued to condemn
          >him.

          my favorite quote:

          >it is important for artists to reclaim art from such reckless
          >commentary, as Gyorgy Ligeti did recently in suggesting that Mr.
          >Stockhausen be confined to a psychiatric clinic.

          in any case, what we really want to see is a full transcript of his
          press conference. not isolated quotes from reporters, nor
          after-the-fact clarifications from Stockhausen and his supporters.

          k

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        • simonsmith@readingchronicle.co.uk
          No Helicopter String Quartet though ... I assume that would be a bit of a security risk in the current circumstances! ____________________Reply
          Message 4 of 5 , Oct 3, 2001
            No Helicopter String Quartet though ... I assume that would be a bit of a
            security risk in the current circumstances!

            ____________________Reply Separator____________________
            Subject: RE: [thewire] More:Stockhausen the reality
            Author: paul.steeples@...
            Date: 03/10/2001 15:07

            Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing Gesang der Junglinge at the Barbican,
            even if no-one else is.


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          • Kurt Hoffman
            ... I just reread the Odyssey, and it s a lurid, sexy spectacle of gushing bloodshed and death from cover to cover -- war, accidents, treachery, carnivorous
            Message 5 of 5 , Oct 4, 2001
              >I don't see it as being as
              >reprehensible as a Hollywood film industry which has based large chunks of
              >its output on the representation of thoughtless destruction and death for
              >the last twenty years.

              I just reread the Odyssey, and it's a lurid, sexy spectacle of
              gushing bloodshed and death from cover to cover -- war, accidents,
              treachery, carnivorous monsters, vengence...much as I detest
              Hollywood products for their stupidity, "representation of
              thoughtless destruction and death" is an ancient and seemingly
              inevitable feature of storytelling, Hollywood or no Hollywood.

              And, just as reading the Odyssey doesn't make me a sword-wielding,
              breast puncturing, sheep-herd-raiding warrior, watching Die Hard II
              doesn't make most people drive planes into buildings. Even my dog
              knows the difference between a real fight and a pretend "play" fight.

              > As people have pointed out before, one aim of art is
              >to transcend everyday reality, and the events of 11 September certainly did
              >that.

              yet it's crucial to uphold the difference between art and a mass
              extermination of life. blurring the distinction spares us the somber
              task of empathy for the victims.

              kurt
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