Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [thewire] Re: PLEASE READ

Expand Messages
  • Patrick Oliver
    ... Sure. Find out more at this site.. http://www.discoverhiphop.com/ ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 28, 2001
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      Jeff said:
      > interesting.

      Sure. Find out more at this site..

      http://www.discoverhiphop.com/

      --- jeff_colley@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > Patrick said:
      > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. And
      > that I try to only
      > buy stuff on vinyl.
      > > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
      >
      > interesting. do you think that that's a reason why
      > so much
      > underground/indie/experimental/etc stuff gets put
      > out on vinyl, often
      > as the main or only format? as a reaction to record
      > company control?
      >
      > if anyone has opinions on this i'd love to hear them
      >
      > jeff
      >
      > --- In thewire@y..., Patrick Oliver
      > <patrick_oliver@y...> wrote:
      > > Yes, its utterly evil and despicable. In fact,
      > you'd
      > > be even more disgusted by the price of cds in the
      > UK.
      > > Several years ago Sir Leon Brittan led a
      > parliamentary
      > > inquiry into the whole business of why the British
      > > public should have to fork out more than anyone
      > else
      > > in the world. The finding of the committee?
      > >
      > > British people pay more for EVERYTHING.
      > >
      > > So that explains it.
      > >
      > > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US.
      > >
      > > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
      > >
      > > There, I said my piece...
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >


      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
      http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
    • simonsmith@readingchronicle.co.uk
      The reality is that my local HMV will order for me virtually any release I want on vinyl from the smallest label - so long as it s got proper distribution -
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 29, 2001
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        The reality is that my local HMV will order for me virtually any release I want on vinyl from the smallest label - so long as it's got proper distribution - and, as the classified pages of Wire show every month, there's no shortage of companies doing mail/internet order.

        In the past few weeks Virgin and HMV just down the road have stocked vinyl releases from - off the top of my head - V/VM, Stockhausen and Walkman, practically everything released on Domino or Warp, all the Sonic Youth own-label releases, all the Soul Jazz compilations on vinyl, lots of white label dance stuff, some decent jazz reissues, Sigur Ros, every Godspeed release and some other Constellation stuff.

        OK, there's nothing too bleeding edge, but what do we want ... the moon on a stick? I think it's pretty good going within the constraints of a capitalist market economy. And no, I don't work for them. Anyone who argues that there isn't ENOUGH music released - on vinyl or otherwise - either has too much time on their hands or doesn't look hard enough.

        AND, practically every hip-hop, new metal or US 'punk' release gets mainstream vinyl distribution - surely a sign that the market-driven approach adopted by the majors is flexible enough to incorporate a bit of youthful dissent.


        ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
        Subject: [thewire] Re: PLEASE READ
        Author: jeff_colley@... at INTERNET
        Date: 28/03/2001 20:28




        Patrick said:
        One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
        > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.

        interesting. do you think that that's a reason why so much underground/indie/experimental/etc stuff gets put out on vinyl, often as the main or only format? as a reaction to record company control?

        if anyone has opinions on this i'd love to hear them

        jeff

        --- In thewire@y..., Patrick Oliver <patrick_oliver@y...> wrote: > Yes, its utterly evil and despicable. In fact, you'd
        > be even more disgusted by the price of cds in the UK. > Several years ago Sir Leon Brittan led a parliamentary > inquiry into the whole business of why the British
        > public should have to fork out more than anyone else > in the world. The finding of the committee?
        > > British people pay more for EVERYTHING. > > So that explains it.
        > > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. > > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
        > > There, I said my piece...
        > > >



        ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to iWin.com for
        your chance to win!
        http://us.click.yahoo.com/olMXHC/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/n6EVlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------_->

        UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@onelist.com

        TheWire List Info Page: http://www.msu.edu/user/forddavi/wirelist.html

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Keith McColl
        thres money in them there hills simon i work at a distributors and we re all taking you to the cleaners ***sleep trickled down around me,and the happy tune
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 29, 2001
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          thres money in them there hills simon i work at a distributors and we're all
          taking you to the cleaners

          ***sleep trickled down around me,and the happy tune dissolved away into my
          dreams ***
          Opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual, not the
          company unless specifically indicated to that effect. This e-mail and any
          attachments are confidential and solely for the use of the intended
          recipient. If you are not the intended recipient we apologise for any
          inconvenience. Please return to the sender. Any use or copying of this
          e-mail or attachments is strictly prohibited

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: simonsmith@...
          > [SMTP:simonsmith@...]
          > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 1:59 PM
          > To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [thewire] Re: PLEASE READ
          >
          > The reality is that my local HMV will order for me virtually any release I
          > want on vinyl from the smallest label - so long as it's got proper
          > distribution - and, as the classified pages of Wire show every month,
          > there's no shortage of companies doing mail/internet order.
          >
          > In the past few weeks Virgin and HMV just down the road have stocked vinyl
          > releases from - off the top of my head - V/VM, Stockhausen and Walkman,
          > practically everything released on Domino or Warp, all the Sonic Youth
          > own-label releases, all the Soul Jazz compilations on vinyl, lots of white
          > label dance stuff, some decent jazz reissues, Sigur Ros, every Godspeed
          > release and some other Constellation stuff.
          >
          > OK, there's nothing too bleeding edge, but what do we want ... the moon on
          > a stick? I think it's pretty good going within the constraints of a
          > capitalist market economy. And no, I don't work for them. Anyone who
          > argues that there isn't ENOUGH music released - on vinyl or otherwise -
          > either has too much time on their hands or doesn't look hard enough.
          >
          > AND, practically every hip-hop, new metal or US 'punk' release gets
          > mainstream vinyl distribution - surely a sign that the market-driven
          > approach adopted by the majors is flexible enough to incorporate a bit of
          > youthful dissent.
          >
          >
          > ______________________________ Reply Separator
          > _________________________________
          > Subject: [thewire] Re: PLEASE READ
          > Author: jeff_colley@... at INTERNET
          > Date: 28/03/2001 20:28
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Patrick said:
          > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. And that I try to only buy
          > stuff on vinyl.
          > > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
          >
          > interesting. do you think that that's a reason why so much
          > underground/indie/experimental/etc stuff gets put out on vinyl, often as
          > the main or only format? as a reaction to record company control?
          >
          > if anyone has opinions on this i'd love to hear them
          >
          > jeff
          >
          > --- In thewire@y..., Patrick Oliver <patrick_oliver@y...> wrote: > Yes,
          > its utterly evil and despicable. In fact, you'd
          > > be even more disgusted by the price of cds in the UK. > Several years
          > ago Sir Leon Brittan led a parliamentary > inquiry into the whole business
          > of why the British
          > > public should have to fork out more than anyone else > in the world. The
          > finding of the committee?
          > > > British people pay more for EVERYTHING. > > So that explains it.
          > > > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. > > And that I try to
          > only buy stuff on vinyl.
          > > > There, I said my piece...
          > > > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          >
          > TheWire List Info Page: http://www.msu.edu/user/forddavi/wirelist.html
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          >
          > TheWire List Info Page: http://www.msu.edu/user/forddavi/wirelist.html
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
        • jeff_colley@yahoo.co.uk
          Yeah, I see your point. I should have made myself a little clearer though. From what I have seen there was a significant shift away from vinyl at the end of
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 29, 2001
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            Yeah, I see your point. I should have made myself a little clearer
            though. From what I have seen there was a significant shift away from
            vinyl at the end of the 80s, which looks like it was based on a
            policy which swept across the music industry. Now, what I mean is, I
            think a lot of people in the underground (and generally on the
            fringes) went on releasing vinyl instead of cds, for a number of
            reasons. For example, in terms of practicality, I know that smaller
            labels and D.I.Y operators may have found the new technologies too
            expensive to invest in, but I think there was a definite cultural
            reaction. The most explicit example I can think of is when the San
            Diego band Drive Like Jehu were (if I remember correctly) put under
            pressure by their record company to release their new album on CD,
            which they did, but with the words 'cds really fuckin' blow' printed
            on the cds, a protest of sorts.
            However, I think there has been a significant shift in recent years,
            which can also be traced back to many possible causes. For example,
            vinyl has seen a resurgence in mass culture in general due to the
            growth of the cult of the DJ--teenage kids get decks instead of
            electric guitars nowadays. Off the back of this, and the growing
            fragmentation of mass audiences, many of whom seep into underground
            culture via leftfield hiphop, electronica and dance, it may be more
            in the interests of the market to promote vinyl, at least to a
            limited extent. Especially seeing the air of cool that people are
            staring to reassociate with it in mass-culture.
            Furthermore, in underground culture, I believe there has been a shift
            away from vinyl culture recently, or at least efforts to place less
            stress on it. Again, there are many factors that I can see that are
            leading to this. For starts, it is becoming cheaper all the time to
            release cds (and there are even some people selling their music
            solely as an intangible object, via mp3's). Which leads to the fact
            that much music is being made/consumed via computers (and thus cds
            are an easier option than vinyl). So there's the
            ecenomic/technological side.
            But also, there's a reaction, I feel, to the commodification of DJ
            culture, and a feeling that music shouldn't need to be pinned down to
            any one format. If certain types of music do this, it's a lot easier
            to pigeonhole them, and not need to think about them anymore. But
            working in different formats (given the history I've mentioned) helps
            to keep things shifting, and evolving. So that even people involved
            in the culture can't be too sure of themselves. So it's good in that
            it helps to work against things like elitism, forces people to be
            more open. And I think that's increasingly becoming a trend in these
            leftfield/experimental/obsessive music cultures: openness,
            enthiusiasm, diversity, etc. Even to the extent of blurring lines
            between serious and pop, good and bad, etc. Just raising questions in
            general. Hopefully, this will lead to the continuation and growth of
            people making and listening to interesting, fresh, new music.

            Sorry for going on...again.

            jeff

            --- In thewire@y..., simonsmith@r... wrote:
            > The reality is that my local HMV will order for me virtually any
            release I want on vinyl from the smallest label - so long as it's got
            proper distribution - and, as the classified pages of Wire show every
            month, there's no shortage of companies doing mail/internet order.
            >
            > In the past few weeks Virgin and HMV just down the road have
            stocked vinyl releases from - off the top of my head - V/VM,
            Stockhausen and Walkman, practically everything released on Domino or
            Warp, all the Sonic Youth own-label releases, all the Soul Jazz
            compilations on vinyl, lots of white label dance stuff, some decent
            jazz reissues, Sigur Ros, every Godspeed release and some other
            Constellation stuff.
            >
            > OK, there's nothing too bleeding edge, but what do we want ... the
            moon on a stick? I think it's pretty good going within the
            constraints of a capitalist market economy. And no, I don't work for
            them. Anyone who argues that there isn't ENOUGH music released - on
            vinyl or otherwise - either has too much time on their hands or
            doesn't look hard enough.
            >
            > AND, practically every hip-hop, new metal or US 'punk' release gets
            mainstream vinyl distribution - surely a sign that the market-driven
            approach adopted by the majors is flexible enough to incorporate a
            bit of youthful dissent.
            >
            >
            > ______________________________ Reply Separator
            _________________________________
            > Subject: [thewire] Re: PLEASE READ
            > Author: jeff_colley@y... at INTERNET
            > Date: 28/03/2001 20:28
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Patrick said:
            > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. And that I try to
            only buy stuff on vinyl.
            > > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
            >
            > interesting. do you think that that's a reason why so much
            underground/indie/experimental/etc stuff gets put out on vinyl, often
            as the main or only format? as a reaction to record company control?
            >
            > if anyone has opinions on this i'd love to hear them
            >
            > jeff
            >
            > --- In thewire@y..., Patrick Oliver <patrick_oliver@y...> wrote: >
            Yes, its utterly evil and despicable. In fact, you'd
            > > be even more disgusted by the price of cds in the UK. > Several
            years ago Sir Leon Brittan led a parliamentary > inquiry into the
            whole business of why the British
            > > public should have to fork out more than anyone else > in the
            world. The finding of the committee?
            > > > British people pay more for EVERYTHING. > > So that explains it.
            > > > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. > > And that I
            try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
            > > > There, I said my piece...
            > > > >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------
            ~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to iWin.com for
            > your chance to win!
            > http://us.click.yahoo.com/olMXHC/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/n6EVlB/TM
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------
            _->
            >
            > UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            >
            > TheWire List Info Page:
            http://www.msu.edu/user/forddavi/wirelist.html
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • Patrick Oliver
            I read an interview with Brian Eno a few years ago in which he complained about the state of art and music. Using the image of a running race to describe the
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 29, 2001
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              I read an interview with Brian Eno a few years ago in
              which he complained about the state of art and music.
              Using the image of a running race to describe the
              creative process he said something along the lines of:
              every time you think you've come up with something
              original there's an advertising executive with red
              braces waiting on the finishing line to give you a big
              bear hug.

              I often think its sad what happened to the small
              generation that those same executives called "X"ers.
              In Britain, at least, we thought we had an interesting
              sub-culture (call it rave, house, acid, whatever) and
              for a while things seemed to get interesting. A
              plethora of small labels and record stores that sprang
              up in the late 1980s, below the radar screens of the
              majors, religiously selling vinyl when the corporate
              giants were telling us to buy cds.

              But - and here comes the bear hug - how did we miss
              the fact that cheaply produced, anonymous,
              instrumental music would be perfect for, well,
              advertising?

              In a way its upsetting to see friends of mine who used
              to be underground djs making music for US Army
              commercials. But at the same time they don't have to
              borrow money from me any more. Their music goes out to
              a wider audience than ever before, more often and they
              get paid.

              Is it okay, then, that underground music finds a wider
              audience? That subculture becomes mass culture? On the
              face of it, if the artists don't have to compromise,
              the answer is no. But what this means in the long term
              and in a wider sense what this means for the music
              industry I think the effects are catastrophic.

              I'm no expert but a process seems to have been in
              motion over the past couple of decades in which the
              lines between mass and sub cultures have become
              blurred. Back in the late '80s/early 90's a sub
              culture would become mass when someone like Madonna
              "discovered" it. Today, new media and technologies
              along with ever growing media conglomerates have
              created mass cultures divided along age and cultural
              definitions, as well as mass cultures based on
              collections of sub cultures. The ultimate aim, of
              course, is the total commodification of music, fashion
              and culture. So that the entire recording industry can
              be owned by a few entities and so that ultimately
              tastes can be tamed and controlled.

              Thus, the MP3 sites were around, as in the case of the
              dance music labels/stores, long enough for the majors
              to learn what they needed to. Marketing has become
              ever more invasive as sophisticated technologies track
              peoples shopping and browsing habits. Cross marketing
              and credit cards now allow conglomerates to match
              peoples cd purchases with their TV and movie watching
              habits as well as their clothes, food and travel
              preferences.

              Ultimately, as the huge media companies and their vast
              marketing capabilities continue to absorb any
              subversive movements we'll see more homogeneous dross
              and less from what we consider to be real artists in
              general. This much is obvious, I suppose, our musical
              tastes racing to stay just beyond the grasp of a pair
              of dexter specs and a Paul Smith suit.

              The simple answer must be yes, vinyl exists outside
              the mainstream and must therefore provide an
              underground arena for interesting music. But is the
              act of clinging to an anachronistic medium as a tool
              of subversion really a substantial threat to the
              tedium of corporate culture or is it just the pathetic
              posturing of an alienated, nostalgic generation?

              Discover hip hop my friend...

              http://www.discoverhiphop.com/


              --- jeff_colley@... wrote:
              > Yeah, I see your point. I should have made myself a
              > little clearer
              > though. From what I have seen there was a
              > significant shift away from
              > vinyl at the end of the 80s, which looks like it was
              > based on a
              > policy which swept across the music industry. Now,
              > what I mean is, I
              > think a lot of people in the underground (and
              > generally on the
              > fringes) went on releasing vinyl instead of cds, for
              > a number of
              > reasons. For example, in terms of practicality, I
              > know that smaller
              > labels and D.I.Y operators may have found the new
              > technologies too
              > expensive to invest in, but I think there was a
              > definite cultural
              > reaction. The most explicit example I can think of
              > is when the San
              > Diego band Drive Like Jehu were (if I remember
              > correctly) put under
              > pressure by their record company to release their
              > new album on CD,
              > which they did, but with the words 'cds really
              > fuckin' blow' printed
              > on the cds, a protest of sorts.
              > However, I think there has been a significant shift
              > in recent years,
              > which can also be traced back to many possible
              > causes. For example,
              > vinyl has seen a resurgence in mass culture in
              > general due to the
              > growth of the cult of the DJ--teenage kids get decks
              > instead of
              > electric guitars nowadays. Off the back of this, and
              > the growing
              > fragmentation of mass audiences, many of whom seep
              > into underground
              > culture via leftfield hiphop, electronica and dance,
              > it may be more
              > in the interests of the market to promote vinyl, at
              > least to a
              > limited extent. Especially seeing the air of cool
              > that people are
              > staring to reassociate with it in mass-culture.
              > Furthermore, in underground culture, I believe there
              > has been a shift
              > away from vinyl culture recently, or at least
              > efforts to place less
              > stress on it. Again, there are many factors that I
              > can see that are
              > leading to this. For starts, it is becoming cheaper
              > all the time to
              > release cds (and there are even some people selling
              > their music
              > solely as an intangible object, via mp3's). Which
              > leads to the fact
              > that much music is being made/consumed via computers
              > (and thus cds
              > are an easier option than vinyl). So there's the
              > ecenomic/technological side.
              > But also, there's a reaction, I feel, to the
              > commodification of DJ
              > culture, and a feeling that music shouldn't need to
              > be pinned down to
              > any one format. If certain types of music do this,
              > it's a lot easier
              > to pigeonhole them, and not need to think about them
              > anymore. But
              > working in different formats (given the history I've
              > mentioned) helps
              > to keep things shifting, and evolving. So that even
              > people involved
              > in the culture can't be too sure of themselves. So
              > it's good in that
              > it helps to work against things like elitism, forces
              > people to be
              > more open. And I think that's increasingly becoming
              > a trend in these
              > leftfield/experimental/obsessive music cultures:
              > openness,
              > enthiusiasm, diversity, etc. Even to the extent of
              > blurring lines
              > between serious and pop, good and bad, etc. Just
              > raising questions in
              > general. Hopefully, this will lead to the
              > continuation and growth of
              > people making and listening to interesting, fresh,
              > new music.
              >
              > Sorry for going on...again.
              >
              > jeff
              >
              > --- In thewire@y..., simonsmith@r... wrote:
              > > The reality is that my local HMV will order for me
              > virtually any
              > release I want on vinyl from the smallest label - so
              > long as it's got
              > proper distribution - and, as the classified pages
              > of Wire show every
              > month, there's no shortage of companies doing
              > mail/internet order.
              > >
              > > In the past few weeks Virgin and HMV just down the
              > road have
              > stocked vinyl releases from - off the top of my head
              > - V/VM,
              > Stockhausen and Walkman, practically everything
              > released on Domino or
              > Warp, all the Sonic Youth own-label releases, all
              > the Soul Jazz
              > compilations on vinyl, lots of white label dance
              > stuff, some decent
              > jazz reissues, Sigur Ros, every Godspeed release and
              > some other
              > Constellation stuff.
              > >
              > > OK, there's nothing too bleeding edge, but what do
              > we want ... the
              > moon on a stick? I think it's pretty good going
              > within the
              > constraints of a capitalist market economy. And no,
              > I don't work for
              > them. Anyone who argues that there isn't ENOUGH
              > music released - on
              > vinyl or otherwise - either has too much time on
              > their hands or
              > doesn't look hard enough.
              > >
              > > AND, practically every hip-hop, new metal or US
              > 'punk' release gets
              > mainstream vinyl distribution - surely a sign that
              > the market-driven
              > approach adopted by the majors is flexible enough to
              > incorporate a
              > bit of youthful dissent.
              > >
              > >
              > > ______________________________ Reply Separator
              > _________________________________
              > > Subject: [thewire] Re: PLEASE READ
              > > Author: jeff_colley@y... at INTERNET
              > > Date: 28/03/2001 20:28
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Patrick said:
              > > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US.
              > And that I try to
              > only buy stuff on vinyl.
              > > > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
              > >
              > > interesting. do you think that that's a reason why
              > so much
              > underground/indie/experimental/etc stuff gets put
              > out on vinyl, often
              > as the main or only format? as a reaction to record
              > company control?
              > >
              > > if anyone has opinions on this i'd love to hear
              > them
              > >
              > > jeff
              > >
              > > --- In thewire@y..., Patrick Oliver
              > <patrick_oliver@y...> wrote: >
              > Yes, its utterly evil and despicable. In fact, you'd
              > > > be even more disgusted by the price of cds in
              > the UK. > Several
              > years ago Sir Leon Brittan led a parliamentary >
              > inquiry into the
              > whole business of why the British
              > > > public should have to fork out more than anyone
              > else > in the
              > world. The finding of the committee?
              > > > > British people pay more for EVERYTHING. > > So
              > that explains it.
              > > > > One of the many reasons that I moved to the
              > US. > > And that I
              > try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
              > > > > There, I said my piece...
              > > > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > ---------------------
              > ~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to iWin.com
              > for
              > > your chance to win!
              > >
              >
              http://us.click.yahoo.com/olMXHC/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/n6EVlB/TM
              >
              >
              ---------------------------------------------------------------------
              > _->
              > >
              > > UNSUBSCRIBE =
              > mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@onelist.com
              >
              === message truncated ===


              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
              http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
            • simonsmith@readingchronicle.co.uk
              I think you re spot on about the seeping of hip-hop and dance culture into leftfield stuff - and the associated vinyl=cool equation. I think what irked me
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 30, 2001
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                I think you're spot on about the seeping of hip-hop and dance culture into leftfield stuff - and the associated vinyl=cool equation.

                I think what irked me about the Negativeland piece is the assumption that the kind of market forces wnhich have seen the rise of the CD are automatically bad news for underground culture - strikes me as a gloomy view. There's a whole host of labels and artists out there muckin about with formats


                ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
                Subject: [thewire] Re: PLEASE READ
                Author: jeff_colley@... at INTERNET
                Date: 29/03/2001 16:47


                Yeah, I see your point. I should have made myself a little clearer though. From what I have seen there was a significant shift away from vinyl at the end of the 80s, which looks like it was based on a policy which swept across the music industry. Now, what I mean is, I think a lot of people in the underground (and generally on the fringes) went on releasing vinyl instead of cds, for a number of reasons. For example, in terms of practicality, I know that smaller labels and D.I.Y operators may have found the new technologies too expensive to invest in, but I think there was a definite cultural reaction. The most explicit example I can think of is when the San Diego band Drive Like Jehu were (if I remember correctly) put under pressure by their record company to release their new album on CD, which they did, but with the words 'cds really fuckin' blow' printed on the cds, a protest of sorts. However, I think there has been a significant shift in recent years, which can also be traced back to many possible causes. For example, vinyl has seen a resurgence in mass culture in general due to the growth of the cult of the DJ--teenage kids get decks instead of electric guitars nowadays. Off the back of this, and the growing fragmentation of mass audiences, many of whom seep into underground culture via leftfield hiphop, electronica and dance, it may be more in the interests of the market to promote vinyl, at least to a limited extent. Especially seeing the air of cool that people are staring to reassociate with it in mass-culture. Furthermore, in underground culture, I believe there has been a shift away from vinyl culture recently, or at least efforts to place less stress on it. Again, there are many factors that I can see that are leading to this. For starts, it is becoming cheaper all the time to release cds (and there are even some people selling their music solely as an intangible object, via mp3's). Which leads to the fact that much music is being made/consumed via computers (and thus cds are an easier option than vinyl). So there's the ecenomic/technological side. But also, there's a reaction, I feel, to the commodification of DJ culture, and a feeling that music shouldn't need to be pinned down to any one format. If certain types of music do this, it's a lot easier to pigeonhole them, and not need to think about them anymore. But working in different formats (given the history I've mentioned) helps to keep things shifting, and evolving. So that even people involved in the culture can't be too sure of themselves. So it's good in that it helps to work against things like elitism, forces people to be more open. And I think that's increasingly becoming a trend in these leftfield/experimental/obsessive music cultures: openness, enthiusiasm, diversity, etc. Even to the extent of blurring lines between serious and pop, good and bad, etc. Just raising questions in general. Hopefully, this will lead to the continuation and growth of people making and listening to interesting, fresh, new music.

                Sorry for going on...again.

                jeff

                --- In thewire@y..., simonsmith@r... wrote:
                > The reality is that my local HMV will order for me virtually any release I want on vinyl from the smallest label - so long as it's got proper distribution - and, as the classified pages of Wire show every month, there's no shortage of companies doing mail/internet order.
                > > In the past few weeks Virgin and HMV just down the road have stocked vinyl releases from - off the top of my head - V/VM, Stockhausen and Walkman, practically everything released on Domino or Warp, all the Sonic Youth own-label releases, all the Soul Jazz compilations on vinyl, lots of white label dance stuff, some decent jazz reissues, Sigur Ros, every Godspeed release and some other Constellation stuff.
                > > OK, there's nothing too bleeding edge, but what do we want ... the moon on a stick? I think it's pretty good going within the constraints of a capitalist market economy. And no, I don't work for them. Anyone who argues that there isn't ENOUGH music released - on vinyl or otherwise - either has too much time on their hands or doesn't look hard enough.
                > > AND, practically every hip-hop, new metal or US 'punk' release gets mainstream vinyl distribution - surely a sign that the market-driven approach adopted by the majors is flexible enough to incorporate a bit of youthful dissent.
                > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
                > Subject: [thewire] Re: PLEASE READ
                > Author: jeff_colley@y... at INTERNET > Date: 28/03/2001 20:28
                > > > > > Patrick said:
                > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
                > > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
                > > interesting. do you think that that's a reason why so much underground/indie/experimental/etc stuff gets put out on vinyl, often as the main or only format? as a reaction to record company control?
                > > if anyone has opinions on this i'd love to hear them > > jeff
                > > --- In thewire@y..., Patrick Oliver <patrick_oliver@y...> wrote: > Yes, its utterly evil and despicable. In fact, you'd
                > > be even more disgusted by the price of cds in the UK. > Several years ago Sir Leon Brittan led a parliamentary > inquiry into the whole business of why the British
                > > public should have to fork out more than anyone else > in the world. The finding of the committee?
                > > > British people pay more for EVERYTHING. > > So that explains it.
                > > > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. > > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
                > > > There, I said my piece...
                > > > >
                > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------- ~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to iWin.com for
                > your chance to win!
                > http://us.click.yahoo.com/olMXHC/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/n6EVlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------- _->
                > > UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                > > TheWire List Info Page: http://www.msu.edu/user/forddavi/wirelist.html
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at graduation to keep
                in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/n6EVlB/TM
                ---------------------------------------------------------------------_->

                UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@onelist.com

                TheWire List Info Page: http://www.msu.edu/user/forddavi/wirelist.html

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.