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Re: PLEASE READ

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  • jeff_colley@yahoo.co.uk
    Patrick said: One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl. ... interesting. do you think that that s a reason why
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 28, 2001
      Patrick said:
      One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. And that I try to only
      buy stuff on vinyl.
      > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.

      interesting. do you think that that's a reason why so much
      underground/indie/experimental/etc stuff gets put out on vinyl, often
      as the main or only format? as a reaction to record company control?

      if anyone has opinions on this i'd love to hear them

      jeff

      --- In thewire@y..., Patrick Oliver <patrick_oliver@y...> wrote:
      > Yes, its utterly evil and despicable. In fact, you'd
      > be even more disgusted by the price of cds in the UK.
      > Several years ago Sir Leon Brittan led a parliamentary
      > inquiry into the whole business of why the British
      > public should have to fork out more than anyone else
      > in the world. The finding of the committee?
      >
      > British people pay more for EVERYTHING.
      >
      > So that explains it.
      >
      > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US.
      >
      > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
      >
      > There, I said my piece...
      >
      >
      >
    • Patrick Oliver
      ... Sure. Find out more at this site.. http://www.discoverhiphop.com/ ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 28, 2001
        Jeff said:
        > interesting.

        Sure. Find out more at this site..

        http://www.discoverhiphop.com/

        --- jeff_colley@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > Patrick said:
        > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. And
        > that I try to only
        > buy stuff on vinyl.
        > > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
        >
        > interesting. do you think that that's a reason why
        > so much
        > underground/indie/experimental/etc stuff gets put
        > out on vinyl, often
        > as the main or only format? as a reaction to record
        > company control?
        >
        > if anyone has opinions on this i'd love to hear them
        >
        > jeff
        >
        > --- In thewire@y..., Patrick Oliver
        > <patrick_oliver@y...> wrote:
        > > Yes, its utterly evil and despicable. In fact,
        > you'd
        > > be even more disgusted by the price of cds in the
        > UK.
        > > Several years ago Sir Leon Brittan led a
        > parliamentary
        > > inquiry into the whole business of why the British
        > > public should have to fork out more than anyone
        > else
        > > in the world. The finding of the committee?
        > >
        > > British people pay more for EVERYTHING.
        > >
        > > So that explains it.
        > >
        > > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US.
        > >
        > > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
        > >
        > > There, I said my piece...
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >


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      • simonsmith@readingchronicle.co.uk
        The reality is that my local HMV will order for me virtually any release I want on vinyl from the smallest label - so long as it s got proper distribution -
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 29, 2001
          The reality is that my local HMV will order for me virtually any release I want on vinyl from the smallest label - so long as it's got proper distribution - and, as the classified pages of Wire show every month, there's no shortage of companies doing mail/internet order.

          In the past few weeks Virgin and HMV just down the road have stocked vinyl releases from - off the top of my head - V/VM, Stockhausen and Walkman, practically everything released on Domino or Warp, all the Sonic Youth own-label releases, all the Soul Jazz compilations on vinyl, lots of white label dance stuff, some decent jazz reissues, Sigur Ros, every Godspeed release and some other Constellation stuff.

          OK, there's nothing too bleeding edge, but what do we want ... the moon on a stick? I think it's pretty good going within the constraints of a capitalist market economy. And no, I don't work for them. Anyone who argues that there isn't ENOUGH music released - on vinyl or otherwise - either has too much time on their hands or doesn't look hard enough.

          AND, practically every hip-hop, new metal or US 'punk' release gets mainstream vinyl distribution - surely a sign that the market-driven approach adopted by the majors is flexible enough to incorporate a bit of youthful dissent.


          ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
          Subject: [thewire] Re: PLEASE READ
          Author: jeff_colley@... at INTERNET
          Date: 28/03/2001 20:28




          Patrick said:
          One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
          > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.

          interesting. do you think that that's a reason why so much underground/indie/experimental/etc stuff gets put out on vinyl, often as the main or only format? as a reaction to record company control?

          if anyone has opinions on this i'd love to hear them

          jeff

          --- In thewire@y..., Patrick Oliver <patrick_oliver@y...> wrote: > Yes, its utterly evil and despicable. In fact, you'd
          > be even more disgusted by the price of cds in the UK. > Several years ago Sir Leon Brittan led a parliamentary > inquiry into the whole business of why the British
          > public should have to fork out more than anyone else > in the world. The finding of the committee?
          > > British people pay more for EVERYTHING. > > So that explains it.
          > > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. > > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
          > > There, I said my piece...
          > > >



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        • Keith McColl
          thres money in them there hills simon i work at a distributors and we re all taking you to the cleaners ***sleep trickled down around me,and the happy tune
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 29, 2001
            thres money in them there hills simon i work at a distributors and we're all
            taking you to the cleaners

            ***sleep trickled down around me,and the happy tune dissolved away into my
            dreams ***
            Opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual, not the
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            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: simonsmith@...
            > [SMTP:simonsmith@...]
            > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 1:59 PM
            > To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [thewire] Re: PLEASE READ
            >
            > The reality is that my local HMV will order for me virtually any release I
            > want on vinyl from the smallest label - so long as it's got proper
            > distribution - and, as the classified pages of Wire show every month,
            > there's no shortage of companies doing mail/internet order.
            >
            > In the past few weeks Virgin and HMV just down the road have stocked vinyl
            > releases from - off the top of my head - V/VM, Stockhausen and Walkman,
            > practically everything released on Domino or Warp, all the Sonic Youth
            > own-label releases, all the Soul Jazz compilations on vinyl, lots of white
            > label dance stuff, some decent jazz reissues, Sigur Ros, every Godspeed
            > release and some other Constellation stuff.
            >
            > OK, there's nothing too bleeding edge, but what do we want ... the moon on
            > a stick? I think it's pretty good going within the constraints of a
            > capitalist market economy. And no, I don't work for them. Anyone who
            > argues that there isn't ENOUGH music released - on vinyl or otherwise -
            > either has too much time on their hands or doesn't look hard enough.
            >
            > AND, practically every hip-hop, new metal or US 'punk' release gets
            > mainstream vinyl distribution - surely a sign that the market-driven
            > approach adopted by the majors is flexible enough to incorporate a bit of
            > youthful dissent.
            >
            >
            > ______________________________ Reply Separator
            > _________________________________
            > Subject: [thewire] Re: PLEASE READ
            > Author: jeff_colley@... at INTERNET
            > Date: 28/03/2001 20:28
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Patrick said:
            > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. And that I try to only buy
            > stuff on vinyl.
            > > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
            >
            > interesting. do you think that that's a reason why so much
            > underground/indie/experimental/etc stuff gets put out on vinyl, often as
            > the main or only format? as a reaction to record company control?
            >
            > if anyone has opinions on this i'd love to hear them
            >
            > jeff
            >
            > --- In thewire@y..., Patrick Oliver <patrick_oliver@y...> wrote: > Yes,
            > its utterly evil and despicable. In fact, you'd
            > > be even more disgusted by the price of cds in the UK. > Several years
            > ago Sir Leon Brittan led a parliamentary > inquiry into the whole business
            > of why the British
            > > public should have to fork out more than anyone else > in the world. The
            > finding of the committee?
            > > > British people pay more for EVERYTHING. > > So that explains it.
            > > > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. > > And that I try to
            > only buy stuff on vinyl.
            > > > There, I said my piece...
            > > > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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            >
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            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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            >
            > TheWire List Info Page: http://www.msu.edu/user/forddavi/wirelist.html
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            >
          • jeff_colley@yahoo.co.uk
            Yeah, I see your point. I should have made myself a little clearer though. From what I have seen there was a significant shift away from vinyl at the end of
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 29, 2001
              Yeah, I see your point. I should have made myself a little clearer
              though. From what I have seen there was a significant shift away from
              vinyl at the end of the 80s, which looks like it was based on a
              policy which swept across the music industry. Now, what I mean is, I
              think a lot of people in the underground (and generally on the
              fringes) went on releasing vinyl instead of cds, for a number of
              reasons. For example, in terms of practicality, I know that smaller
              labels and D.I.Y operators may have found the new technologies too
              expensive to invest in, but I think there was a definite cultural
              reaction. The most explicit example I can think of is when the San
              Diego band Drive Like Jehu were (if I remember correctly) put under
              pressure by their record company to release their new album on CD,
              which they did, but with the words 'cds really fuckin' blow' printed
              on the cds, a protest of sorts.
              However, I think there has been a significant shift in recent years,
              which can also be traced back to many possible causes. For example,
              vinyl has seen a resurgence in mass culture in general due to the
              growth of the cult of the DJ--teenage kids get decks instead of
              electric guitars nowadays. Off the back of this, and the growing
              fragmentation of mass audiences, many of whom seep into underground
              culture via leftfield hiphop, electronica and dance, it may be more
              in the interests of the market to promote vinyl, at least to a
              limited extent. Especially seeing the air of cool that people are
              staring to reassociate with it in mass-culture.
              Furthermore, in underground culture, I believe there has been a shift
              away from vinyl culture recently, or at least efforts to place less
              stress on it. Again, there are many factors that I can see that are
              leading to this. For starts, it is becoming cheaper all the time to
              release cds (and there are even some people selling their music
              solely as an intangible object, via mp3's). Which leads to the fact
              that much music is being made/consumed via computers (and thus cds
              are an easier option than vinyl). So there's the
              ecenomic/technological side.
              But also, there's a reaction, I feel, to the commodification of DJ
              culture, and a feeling that music shouldn't need to be pinned down to
              any one format. If certain types of music do this, it's a lot easier
              to pigeonhole them, and not need to think about them anymore. But
              working in different formats (given the history I've mentioned) helps
              to keep things shifting, and evolving. So that even people involved
              in the culture can't be too sure of themselves. So it's good in that
              it helps to work against things like elitism, forces people to be
              more open. And I think that's increasingly becoming a trend in these
              leftfield/experimental/obsessive music cultures: openness,
              enthiusiasm, diversity, etc. Even to the extent of blurring lines
              between serious and pop, good and bad, etc. Just raising questions in
              general. Hopefully, this will lead to the continuation and growth of
              people making and listening to interesting, fresh, new music.

              Sorry for going on...again.

              jeff

              --- In thewire@y..., simonsmith@r... wrote:
              > The reality is that my local HMV will order for me virtually any
              release I want on vinyl from the smallest label - so long as it's got
              proper distribution - and, as the classified pages of Wire show every
              month, there's no shortage of companies doing mail/internet order.
              >
              > In the past few weeks Virgin and HMV just down the road have
              stocked vinyl releases from - off the top of my head - V/VM,
              Stockhausen and Walkman, practically everything released on Domino or
              Warp, all the Sonic Youth own-label releases, all the Soul Jazz
              compilations on vinyl, lots of white label dance stuff, some decent
              jazz reissues, Sigur Ros, every Godspeed release and some other
              Constellation stuff.
              >
              > OK, there's nothing too bleeding edge, but what do we want ... the
              moon on a stick? I think it's pretty good going within the
              constraints of a capitalist market economy. And no, I don't work for
              them. Anyone who argues that there isn't ENOUGH music released - on
              vinyl or otherwise - either has too much time on their hands or
              doesn't look hard enough.
              >
              > AND, practically every hip-hop, new metal or US 'punk' release gets
              mainstream vinyl distribution - surely a sign that the market-driven
              approach adopted by the majors is flexible enough to incorporate a
              bit of youthful dissent.
              >
              >
              > ______________________________ Reply Separator
              _________________________________
              > Subject: [thewire] Re: PLEASE READ
              > Author: jeff_colley@y... at INTERNET
              > Date: 28/03/2001 20:28
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Patrick said:
              > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. And that I try to
              only buy stuff on vinyl.
              > > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
              >
              > interesting. do you think that that's a reason why so much
              underground/indie/experimental/etc stuff gets put out on vinyl, often
              as the main or only format? as a reaction to record company control?
              >
              > if anyone has opinions on this i'd love to hear them
              >
              > jeff
              >
              > --- In thewire@y..., Patrick Oliver <patrick_oliver@y...> wrote: >
              Yes, its utterly evil and despicable. In fact, you'd
              > > be even more disgusted by the price of cds in the UK. > Several
              years ago Sir Leon Brittan led a parliamentary > inquiry into the
              whole business of why the British
              > > public should have to fork out more than anyone else > in the
              world. The finding of the committee?
              > > > British people pay more for EVERYTHING. > > So that explains it.
              > > > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. > > And that I
              try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
              > > > There, I said my piece...
              > > > >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------
              ~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to iWin.com for
              > your chance to win!
              > http://us.click.yahoo.com/olMXHC/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/n6EVlB/TM
              ---------------------------------------------------------------------
              _->
              >
              > UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@onelist.com
              >
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            • Patrick Oliver
              I read an interview with Brian Eno a few years ago in which he complained about the state of art and music. Using the image of a running race to describe the
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 29, 2001
                I read an interview with Brian Eno a few years ago in
                which he complained about the state of art and music.
                Using the image of a running race to describe the
                creative process he said something along the lines of:
                every time you think you've come up with something
                original there's an advertising executive with red
                braces waiting on the finishing line to give you a big
                bear hug.

                I often think its sad what happened to the small
                generation that those same executives called "X"ers.
                In Britain, at least, we thought we had an interesting
                sub-culture (call it rave, house, acid, whatever) and
                for a while things seemed to get interesting. A
                plethora of small labels and record stores that sprang
                up in the late 1980s, below the radar screens of the
                majors, religiously selling vinyl when the corporate
                giants were telling us to buy cds.

                But - and here comes the bear hug - how did we miss
                the fact that cheaply produced, anonymous,
                instrumental music would be perfect for, well,
                advertising?

                In a way its upsetting to see friends of mine who used
                to be underground djs making music for US Army
                commercials. But at the same time they don't have to
                borrow money from me any more. Their music goes out to
                a wider audience than ever before, more often and they
                get paid.

                Is it okay, then, that underground music finds a wider
                audience? That subculture becomes mass culture? On the
                face of it, if the artists don't have to compromise,
                the answer is no. But what this means in the long term
                and in a wider sense what this means for the music
                industry I think the effects are catastrophic.

                I'm no expert but a process seems to have been in
                motion over the past couple of decades in which the
                lines between mass and sub cultures have become
                blurred. Back in the late '80s/early 90's a sub
                culture would become mass when someone like Madonna
                "discovered" it. Today, new media and technologies
                along with ever growing media conglomerates have
                created mass cultures divided along age and cultural
                definitions, as well as mass cultures based on
                collections of sub cultures. The ultimate aim, of
                course, is the total commodification of music, fashion
                and culture. So that the entire recording industry can
                be owned by a few entities and so that ultimately
                tastes can be tamed and controlled.

                Thus, the MP3 sites were around, as in the case of the
                dance music labels/stores, long enough for the majors
                to learn what they needed to. Marketing has become
                ever more invasive as sophisticated technologies track
                peoples shopping and browsing habits. Cross marketing
                and credit cards now allow conglomerates to match
                peoples cd purchases with their TV and movie watching
                habits as well as their clothes, food and travel
                preferences.

                Ultimately, as the huge media companies and their vast
                marketing capabilities continue to absorb any
                subversive movements we'll see more homogeneous dross
                and less from what we consider to be real artists in
                general. This much is obvious, I suppose, our musical
                tastes racing to stay just beyond the grasp of a pair
                of dexter specs and a Paul Smith suit.

                The simple answer must be yes, vinyl exists outside
                the mainstream and must therefore provide an
                underground arena for interesting music. But is the
                act of clinging to an anachronistic medium as a tool
                of subversion really a substantial threat to the
                tedium of corporate culture or is it just the pathetic
                posturing of an alienated, nostalgic generation?

                Discover hip hop my friend...

                http://www.discoverhiphop.com/


                --- jeff_colley@... wrote:
                > Yeah, I see your point. I should have made myself a
                > little clearer
                > though. From what I have seen there was a
                > significant shift away from
                > vinyl at the end of the 80s, which looks like it was
                > based on a
                > policy which swept across the music industry. Now,
                > what I mean is, I
                > think a lot of people in the underground (and
                > generally on the
                > fringes) went on releasing vinyl instead of cds, for
                > a number of
                > reasons. For example, in terms of practicality, I
                > know that smaller
                > labels and D.I.Y operators may have found the new
                > technologies too
                > expensive to invest in, but I think there was a
                > definite cultural
                > reaction. The most explicit example I can think of
                > is when the San
                > Diego band Drive Like Jehu were (if I remember
                > correctly) put under
                > pressure by their record company to release their
                > new album on CD,
                > which they did, but with the words 'cds really
                > fuckin' blow' printed
                > on the cds, a protest of sorts.
                > However, I think there has been a significant shift
                > in recent years,
                > which can also be traced back to many possible
                > causes. For example,
                > vinyl has seen a resurgence in mass culture in
                > general due to the
                > growth of the cult of the DJ--teenage kids get decks
                > instead of
                > electric guitars nowadays. Off the back of this, and
                > the growing
                > fragmentation of mass audiences, many of whom seep
                > into underground
                > culture via leftfield hiphop, electronica and dance,
                > it may be more
                > in the interests of the market to promote vinyl, at
                > least to a
                > limited extent. Especially seeing the air of cool
                > that people are
                > staring to reassociate with it in mass-culture.
                > Furthermore, in underground culture, I believe there
                > has been a shift
                > away from vinyl culture recently, or at least
                > efforts to place less
                > stress on it. Again, there are many factors that I
                > can see that are
                > leading to this. For starts, it is becoming cheaper
                > all the time to
                > release cds (and there are even some people selling
                > their music
                > solely as an intangible object, via mp3's). Which
                > leads to the fact
                > that much music is being made/consumed via computers
                > (and thus cds
                > are an easier option than vinyl). So there's the
                > ecenomic/technological side.
                > But also, there's a reaction, I feel, to the
                > commodification of DJ
                > culture, and a feeling that music shouldn't need to
                > be pinned down to
                > any one format. If certain types of music do this,
                > it's a lot easier
                > to pigeonhole them, and not need to think about them
                > anymore. But
                > working in different formats (given the history I've
                > mentioned) helps
                > to keep things shifting, and evolving. So that even
                > people involved
                > in the culture can't be too sure of themselves. So
                > it's good in that
                > it helps to work against things like elitism, forces
                > people to be
                > more open. And I think that's increasingly becoming
                > a trend in these
                > leftfield/experimental/obsessive music cultures:
                > openness,
                > enthiusiasm, diversity, etc. Even to the extent of
                > blurring lines
                > between serious and pop, good and bad, etc. Just
                > raising questions in
                > general. Hopefully, this will lead to the
                > continuation and growth of
                > people making and listening to interesting, fresh,
                > new music.
                >
                > Sorry for going on...again.
                >
                > jeff
                >
                > --- In thewire@y..., simonsmith@r... wrote:
                > > The reality is that my local HMV will order for me
                > virtually any
                > release I want on vinyl from the smallest label - so
                > long as it's got
                > proper distribution - and, as the classified pages
                > of Wire show every
                > month, there's no shortage of companies doing
                > mail/internet order.
                > >
                > > In the past few weeks Virgin and HMV just down the
                > road have
                > stocked vinyl releases from - off the top of my head
                > - V/VM,
                > Stockhausen and Walkman, practically everything
                > released on Domino or
                > Warp, all the Sonic Youth own-label releases, all
                > the Soul Jazz
                > compilations on vinyl, lots of white label dance
                > stuff, some decent
                > jazz reissues, Sigur Ros, every Godspeed release and
                > some other
                > Constellation stuff.
                > >
                > > OK, there's nothing too bleeding edge, but what do
                > we want ... the
                > moon on a stick? I think it's pretty good going
                > within the
                > constraints of a capitalist market economy. And no,
                > I don't work for
                > them. Anyone who argues that there isn't ENOUGH
                > music released - on
                > vinyl or otherwise - either has too much time on
                > their hands or
                > doesn't look hard enough.
                > >
                > > AND, practically every hip-hop, new metal or US
                > 'punk' release gets
                > mainstream vinyl distribution - surely a sign that
                > the market-driven
                > approach adopted by the majors is flexible enough to
                > incorporate a
                > bit of youthful dissent.
                > >
                > >
                > > ______________________________ Reply Separator
                > _________________________________
                > > Subject: [thewire] Re: PLEASE READ
                > > Author: jeff_colley@y... at INTERNET
                > > Date: 28/03/2001 20:28
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Patrick said:
                > > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US.
                > And that I try to
                > only buy stuff on vinyl.
                > > > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
                > >
                > > interesting. do you think that that's a reason why
                > so much
                > underground/indie/experimental/etc stuff gets put
                > out on vinyl, often
                > as the main or only format? as a reaction to record
                > company control?
                > >
                > > if anyone has opinions on this i'd love to hear
                > them
                > >
                > > jeff
                > >
                > > --- In thewire@y..., Patrick Oliver
                > <patrick_oliver@y...> wrote: >
                > Yes, its utterly evil and despicable. In fact, you'd
                > > > be even more disgusted by the price of cds in
                > the UK. > Several
                > years ago Sir Leon Brittan led a parliamentary >
                > inquiry into the
                > whole business of why the British
                > > > public should have to fork out more than anyone
                > else > in the
                > world. The finding of the committee?
                > > > > British people pay more for EVERYTHING. > > So
                > that explains it.
                > > > > One of the many reasons that I moved to the
                > US. > > And that I
                > try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
                > > > > There, I said my piece...
                > > > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
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              • simonsmith@readingchronicle.co.uk
                I think you re spot on about the seeping of hip-hop and dance culture into leftfield stuff - and the associated vinyl=cool equation. I think what irked me
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 30, 2001
                  I think you're spot on about the seeping of hip-hop and dance culture into leftfield stuff - and the associated vinyl=cool equation.

                  I think what irked me about the Negativeland piece is the assumption that the kind of market forces wnhich have seen the rise of the CD are automatically bad news for underground culture - strikes me as a gloomy view. There's a whole host of labels and artists out there muckin about with formats


                  ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
                  Subject: [thewire] Re: PLEASE READ
                  Author: jeff_colley@... at INTERNET
                  Date: 29/03/2001 16:47


                  Yeah, I see your point. I should have made myself a little clearer though. From what I have seen there was a significant shift away from vinyl at the end of the 80s, which looks like it was based on a policy which swept across the music industry. Now, what I mean is, I think a lot of people in the underground (and generally on the fringes) went on releasing vinyl instead of cds, for a number of reasons. For example, in terms of practicality, I know that smaller labels and D.I.Y operators may have found the new technologies too expensive to invest in, but I think there was a definite cultural reaction. The most explicit example I can think of is when the San Diego band Drive Like Jehu were (if I remember correctly) put under pressure by their record company to release their new album on CD, which they did, but with the words 'cds really fuckin' blow' printed on the cds, a protest of sorts. However, I think there has been a significant shift in recent years, which can also be traced back to many possible causes. For example, vinyl has seen a resurgence in mass culture in general due to the growth of the cult of the DJ--teenage kids get decks instead of electric guitars nowadays. Off the back of this, and the growing fragmentation of mass audiences, many of whom seep into underground culture via leftfield hiphop, electronica and dance, it may be more in the interests of the market to promote vinyl, at least to a limited extent. Especially seeing the air of cool that people are staring to reassociate with it in mass-culture. Furthermore, in underground culture, I believe there has been a shift away from vinyl culture recently, or at least efforts to place less stress on it. Again, there are many factors that I can see that are leading to this. For starts, it is becoming cheaper all the time to release cds (and there are even some people selling their music solely as an intangible object, via mp3's). Which leads to the fact that much music is being made/consumed via computers (and thus cds are an easier option than vinyl). So there's the ecenomic/technological side. But also, there's a reaction, I feel, to the commodification of DJ culture, and a feeling that music shouldn't need to be pinned down to any one format. If certain types of music do this, it's a lot easier to pigeonhole them, and not need to think about them anymore. But working in different formats (given the history I've mentioned) helps to keep things shifting, and evolving. So that even people involved in the culture can't be too sure of themselves. So it's good in that it helps to work against things like elitism, forces people to be more open. And I think that's increasingly becoming a trend in these leftfield/experimental/obsessive music cultures: openness, enthiusiasm, diversity, etc. Even to the extent of blurring lines between serious and pop, good and bad, etc. Just raising questions in general. Hopefully, this will lead to the continuation and growth of people making and listening to interesting, fresh, new music.

                  Sorry for going on...again.

                  jeff

                  --- In thewire@y..., simonsmith@r... wrote:
                  > The reality is that my local HMV will order for me virtually any release I want on vinyl from the smallest label - so long as it's got proper distribution - and, as the classified pages of Wire show every month, there's no shortage of companies doing mail/internet order.
                  > > In the past few weeks Virgin and HMV just down the road have stocked vinyl releases from - off the top of my head - V/VM, Stockhausen and Walkman, practically everything released on Domino or Warp, all the Sonic Youth own-label releases, all the Soul Jazz compilations on vinyl, lots of white label dance stuff, some decent jazz reissues, Sigur Ros, every Godspeed release and some other Constellation stuff.
                  > > OK, there's nothing too bleeding edge, but what do we want ... the moon on a stick? I think it's pretty good going within the constraints of a capitalist market economy. And no, I don't work for them. Anyone who argues that there isn't ENOUGH music released - on vinyl or otherwise - either has too much time on their hands or doesn't look hard enough.
                  > > AND, practically every hip-hop, new metal or US 'punk' release gets mainstream vinyl distribution - surely a sign that the market-driven approach adopted by the majors is flexible enough to incorporate a bit of youthful dissent.
                  > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
                  > Subject: [thewire] Re: PLEASE READ
                  > Author: jeff_colley@y... at INTERNET > Date: 28/03/2001 20:28
                  > > > > > Patrick said:
                  > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
                  > > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
                  > > interesting. do you think that that's a reason why so much underground/indie/experimental/etc stuff gets put out on vinyl, often as the main or only format? as a reaction to record company control?
                  > > if anyone has opinions on this i'd love to hear them > > jeff
                  > > --- In thewire@y..., Patrick Oliver <patrick_oliver@y...> wrote: > Yes, its utterly evil and despicable. In fact, you'd
                  > > be even more disgusted by the price of cds in the UK. > Several years ago Sir Leon Brittan led a parliamentary > inquiry into the whole business of why the British
                  > > public should have to fork out more than anyone else > in the world. The finding of the committee?
                  > > > British people pay more for EVERYTHING. > > So that explains it.
                  > > > One of the many reasons that I moved to the US. > > And that I try to only buy stuff on vinyl.
                  > > > There, I said my piece...
                  > > > >
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