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RE: [thewire] gap

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  • Steeples Paul (Mr PW)
    It sounds both opaque and interesting. In my experience, a lot of this cultural criticism incorporates interesting and probably good ideas buried under tons of
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 1, 2000
      It sounds both opaque and interesting. In my experience, a lot of this
      cultural criticism incorporates interesting and probably good ideas buried
      under tons of jargon and footnotes (the curse of academia). Anyway, it gives
      me something to look into I'd not come across before which, in spite of the
      views of some malcontents, is what makes this forum worthwhile to me...

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Manuel V. Cabrera Jr. [mailto:mandelc@...]
      Sent: 02 December 2000 17:00
      To: thewire@egroups.com
      Subject: Re: [thewire] gap


      I never thought i'd hear the cocteau twins, jim o'rourke, and nick drake
      on
      commercials, but it's happened. but i take it all in stride: i agree with
      many
      marxist social theorists like frederic jameson (whom i oterwise find quite
      disagreeable) and slavoj zizek, who constantly pound at the point that
      capitalism's greatest contemporary achievement has been to successfully
      co-opt
      all of the cultural-revolutionary ambitions of modernity. the basic point
      of
      all of this is that one of the principal pretensions of much niche
      subculture is
      that it is exempt from co-optation, which allows that co-optation to occur
      all
      the more effectively. the point of folks like zizek is that it is the
      subjective relation that determines whether or not an artifact or artifacts
      will, will not be, or will have always already been co-opted into a
      capitalist
      cultural logic. for zizek, what distinguishes this cultural logic is
      cynicism/melancholy, in which one is put in the position of pining after the
      cause of one's desire (in strict contrast to the object of one's desire)
      despite
      the fact that one is still in possession of the object of one's desire. in
      the
      case of 'underground' music, a jim o'rourke song being used in a commercial
      (i
      can't remember the company that used one of his songs from 'eureka') steals
      away
      the cause of one's desire for this music: something like its 'underground'
      status. if i become nostalgic for this elite status, what i am doing is
      pining
      after the desire of the other (all those who belong to the
      'underground'--which
      functions here as a symbolic fiction), that is, after the other's unmediated
      (in
      this case, literally--unmediated by the media) access to enjoyment. for
      zizek,
      this is the structure of melancholy, and is the improper ethical stance.
      what this leaves, of course, is mourning, which for zizek conforms to
      the
      lacanian notion thereof: elevating the object to the place of The Thing,
      which
      is akin to the Kantian thing-in-itself. what this means is putting the
      object
      in the place of the desire of the other and thereby revealing the
      irreducible
      gap in the other's desire. what this really amounts to is something i'm
      still
      trying to figure out in my continuing study of Zizek's interesting
      combination
      of lacan and marx in his philosophy of social phenomena.
      the short end of it is that i ifnd zizek's perspective that nostalgia
      for
      what is often called an 'underground' status for cultural objects fits just
      perfectly into the cultural logic of capitalism, and facilitates the
      ideological
      co-optation of those cultural objects.
      apologies for the brevity and relative opacity of these comments.
      really,
      i'm not one of those jargon-tossing continental philosophy people: i just
      didn't
      want to write an email so long that no one would read it. i hope at least
      the
      comments on melancholy will be somewhat clear. of course, any objections
      and/or corrections will be wlecome.

      manuel cabrera

      Jawed Ashraf wrote:

      > I lived with an advertising creative. He read, amongst other things,
      girls
      > magazines like More (teen, virtually pre-teen), in order to know his
      market.
      > (More is actually a good laugh - the sexual position of the week was one
      of
      > the best bits - and then there's the irony of something like that in a
      > magazine for 12-15 year olds though it also seems to have a 20-something
      > audience...)
      >
      > "Normally when a company uses really cool music for it's advert you think,
      > hmm, cool company" was rhetorical.
      >
      > Jawed
      >
      > >===== Original Message From Jason Jay Stevens <spoke@...> =====
      > >On Thu, 30 Nov 2000, Jawed Ashraf wrote:
      > >
      > >> This is sickening.
      > >>
      > >> Normally when a company uses really cool music for it's advert you
      think,
      > >> hmm, cool company.
      > >
      > >Really?
      > >You fall for that sort of nonsense?
      > >
      > >I guess advertising is a multi-ka-trillon dollar bizness for a reason:
      > >it works
      > >
      > >people are suckers for attractive images of attractive people listening
      to
      > >attractive music
      > >regardless of what the company behind the ad really represents
      > >(and as far as Gap goes...let's not go there...)
      > >
      > >Just a reminder:
      > >corporations hire ad agencies
      > >which hire savvy young liberal arts grads
      > >who know a thing or two about music
      > >(and maybe subscribe to hip lists like this one...
      > >for the inside scoop...)
      > >and search out obscure music (which doesn't cost as much as the hits)
      > >especially music with a cult following
      > >and mix it with images to foster a favorable emotional response
      > >which appeals to you in your television trance state
      > >and suggests to you
      > >"hey this company must make some pretty cool clothes
      > > I might buy some next time I go to the mall."
      > >
      > >smash your TV, man
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >+ From: JasonJayStevens
      > >+ mediaArts&research
      > >+ potterBelmarLabs
      > >+ spoke@...
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      > >
      > >TheWire List Info Page: http://www.msu.edu/user/forddavi/wirelist.html
      >
      >
      > UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      >
      > TheWire List Info Page: http://www.msu.edu/user/forddavi/wirelist.html



      UNSUBSCRIBE = mailto:thewire-unsubscribe@onelist.com

      TheWire List Info Page: http://www.msu.edu/user/forddavi/wirelist.html


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jason Jay Stevens
      ... Oh--it was the melancholy bit for which I needed clarification. The rest came relatively easily (relatively being the keyWord). do you (or your pundits)
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 3, 2000
        On Sat, 2 Dec 2000, Manuel V. Cabrera Jr. wrote:
        > want to write an email so long that no one would read it. i hope at least the
        > comments on melancholy will be somewhat clear. of course, any objections
        > and/or corrections will be wlecome.

        Oh--it was the melancholy bit for which I needed clarification.
        The rest came relatively easily (relatively being the keyWord).

        do you (or your pundits) imply that capitalism possesses a gravity
        towards cynicism and melancholy?

        p.s. we Do live in self-proclaimed "post-modern capitalist" times.
        however, capitalism by-and-large functions as it did one -two hundred
        years ago.
        post-modernism has more to do with the global-awareness and
        history-awareness that our culture has developed-- and our novel
        relationship to the global and to history.

        ...........as I understand it..........


        + From: JasonJayStevens
        + mediaArts&research
        + potterBelmarLabs
        + spoke@...
      • ZURAW,BRYAN LAWRENCE
        Folks who liked the Davis bio might be interested to read an essay by Quincy Troupe (Miles co-author) about his impressions of Miles. It appeared in
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 4, 2000
          Folks who liked the Davis bio might be interested to read
          an essay by Quincy Troupe (Miles' co-author) about his
          impressions of Miles.

          It appeared in Conjunctions 16 in 1991. It's an entire
          issue dedicated tomusical topics including an interview
          with Philip Corner, a piece on jazz by Hayden Carruth,
          Jackson MacLow , Gearld Early, Nathaniel Mackey, Amiri Baraka,
          Lukas Foss and lots more. Should be available in university libraries.

          Bryan
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