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Re: Questions on 2.5D and 3D paper model designs

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  • wyld.hunt
    Got the Bretonnian Corsairs and Galleons built - photos uploaded to theseaofclaws - Photos - Paper Mock-Ups (Bret1, Bret2, and Bret3). I used 110-lb
    Message 1 of 29 , Dec 1 7:45 AM
      Got the Bretonnian Corsairs and Galleons built - photos uploaded to theseaofclaws -> Photos -> Paper Mock-Ups (Bret1, Bret2, and Bret3). I used 110-lb cardstock this time.

      I like the look of the Bretonnians much better than the Chaos Dwarfs - with the sails, my mind does say "paper model" rather than "game token." Cardstock works better than my transparency method, although the 110-lb is so thick that crinkle lines do show in the sails.

      Next I'll build the Black Ark using photo paper.

      By the way, for those who are still wondering where all of Morval's 2.5D template files are, they're under the manowargameArchive group -> Files -> Paper Models.

      Wyldhunt
    • morval666
      I always used matte photo paper. It is thinner than regular cardstock, but seems very strong. The sails do give it that 2.5d look. I would rotate the masts
      Message 2 of 29 , Dec 1 10:06 AM
        I always used matte photo paper. It is thinner than regular cardstock, but seems very strong.

        The sails do give it that 2.5d look. I would rotate the masts about 45deg using my fingers at their base. Then I glue the sails on to the masts with hot glue. Hot glue seems to be rubbery enough and strong enough to give a good connection of the sail to the mast so that they aren't falling off everytime you move them. They were very sturdy.

        For the ships without sails they usually still have pennants. I would print these out separately and glue them on at different angles similar to sails. Also give the pennants a nice wave. On the ships with Rockets I was thinking of printing out the top down view of the rockets and then slipping them over the hull where they would be to give the illusion of 3d. I might not be explaining that very well. I'm meaning to try and get some building done this weekend, not sure if that will happen. Lots of work to do this weekend as well. Soon though.

        Keep up the good work! I'll go have a look at your photos now.

        Konrad

        --- In theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com, "wyld.hunt" <wyld.hunt@...> wrote:
        >
        > Got the Bretonnian Corsairs and Galleons built - photos uploaded to theseaofclaws -> Photos -> Paper Mock-Ups (Bret1, Bret2, and Bret3). I used 110-lb cardstock this time.
        >
        > I like the look of the Bretonnians much better than the Chaos Dwarfs - with the sails, my mind does say "paper model" rather than "game token." Cardstock works better than my transparency method, although the 110-lb is so thick that crinkle lines do show in the sails.
        >
        > Next I'll build the Black Ark using photo paper.
        >
        > By the way, for those who are still wondering where all of Morval's 2.5D template files are, they're under the manowargameArchive group -> Files -> Paper Models.
        >
        > Wyldhunt
        >
      • morval666
        I had a look at your photos, awesome! I agree the sail ships look the best. We need to find a way to give the non sail ships a little bit more 3d. I think I
        Message 3 of 29 , Dec 1 10:43 AM
          I had a look at your photos, awesome! I agree the sail ships look the best. We need to find a way to give the non sail ships a little bit more 3d.

          I think I included a document on tips for paper modeling in my files? I did a lot of paper model building for fantasy games (www.worldworksgames.com) so I've had some experience with paper. Probably the most important tip is Edging. Basically get a bunch of different colour thick permanent markers. Almost everything should be edged in black. But the sails you could leave alone unless they are a different colour than white. Experiment with edging with different colour markers and see how you like it. But a good black edge around a model where you would normally see the white of the paper gives it that extra little bit for the eye.

          In the papermockup section my first five pictures are of early prototypes. I should mention that in their summary I guess. The real models look way better as you can see by looking at your photos of the Brets.

          I've got a few more ideas for improving the look of non sailships I'm hoping will work out nice.

          Konrad

          --- In theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com, "wyld.hunt" <wyld.hunt@...> wrote:
          >
          > Got the Bretonnian Corsairs and Galleons built - photos uploaded to theseaofclaws -> Photos -> Paper Mock-Ups (Bret1, Bret2, and Bret3). I used 110-lb cardstock this time.
          >
          > I like the look of the Bretonnians much better than the Chaos Dwarfs - with the sails, my mind does say "paper model" rather than "game token." Cardstock works better than my transparency method, although the 110-lb is so thick that crinkle lines do show in the sails.
          >
          > Next I'll build the Black Ark using photo paper.
          >
          > By the way, for those who are still wondering where all of Morval's 2.5D template files are, they're under the manowargameArchive group -> Files -> Paper Models.
          >
          > Wyldhunt
          >
        • Jonathan Leslie
          can anybody tell me where I can find the patterns for the Paper Black Ark? afa adding details to ships, I do it all the time, but without a descent repository
          Message 4 of 29 , Dec 1 11:08 AM
            can anybody tell me where I can find the patterns for the Paper Black Ark?

            afa adding details to ships, I do it all the time, but without a descent repository of paper models, expressly stating to please upload any updates, you guys are swimming upstream. 

            For example the Nautilus stempunk ship, I redid, re-sized, enhanced the graphics, but I'm not gonna negotiate the copyright legaleze or the maze of the files system here to upload it.   The Paper Black Ark is a perfect example,  I'd love to build it, enhance it, and share my templates but there is no mechanism for doing so.  I can't even find the template.  How can that be?



            --- On Sat, 12/1/12, morval666 <morval@...> wrote:

            From: morval666 <morval@...>
            Subject: [The Sea Of Claws] Re: Questions on 2.5D and 3D paper model designs
            To: theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, December 1, 2012, 1:43 PM








             









            I had a look at your photos, awesome! I agree the sail ships look the best. We need to find a way to give the non sail ships a little bit more 3d.



            I think I included a document on tips for paper modeling in my files? I did a lot of paper model building for fantasy games (www.worldworksgames.com) so I've had some experience with paper. Probably the most important tip is Edging. Basically get a bunch of different colour thick permanent markers. Almost everything should be edged in black. But the sails you could leave alone unless they are a different colour than white. Experiment with edging with different colour markers and see how you like it. But a good black edge around a model where you would normally see the white of the paper gives it that extra little bit for the eye.



            In the papermockup section my first five pictures are of early prototypes. I should mention that in their summary I guess. The real models look way better as you can see by looking at your photos of the Brets.



            I've got a few more ideas for improving the look of non sailships I'm hoping will work out nice.



            Konrad



            --- In theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com, "wyld.hunt" <wyld.hunt@...> wrote:

            >

            > Got the Bretonnian Corsairs and Galleons built - photos uploaded to theseaofclaws -> Photos -> Paper Mock-Ups (Bret1, Bret2, and Bret3). I used 110-lb cardstock this time.

            >

            > I like the look of the Bretonnians much better than the Chaos Dwarfs - with the sails, my mind does say "paper model" rather than "game token." Cardstock works better than my transparency method, although the 110-lb is so thick that crinkle lines do show in the sails.

            >

            > Next I'll build the Black Ark using photo paper.

            >

            > By the way, for those who are still wondering where all of Morval's 2.5D template files are, they're under the manowargameArchive group -> Files -> Paper Models.

            >

            > Wyldhunt

            >






















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • morval666
            It seems to be a common question. :) Everything is on the archive site. You gotta join that site. I think it has something to do with the storage Yahoo
            Message 5 of 29 , Dec 1 11:55 AM
              It seems to be a common question. :) Everything is on the archive site. You gotta join that site. I think it has something to do with the storage Yahoo gives each group. Just go to the home page here and then click on the archive site.

              Konrad

              --- In theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Leslie <jleslie48@...> wrote:
              >
              > can anybody tell me where I can find the patterns for the Paper Black Ark?
              >
              > afa adding details to ships, I do it all the time, but without a descent repository of paper models, expressly stating to please upload any updates, you guys are swimming upstream. 
              >
              > For example the Nautilus stempunk ship, I redid, re-sized, enhanced the graphics, but I'm not gonna negotiate the copyright legaleze or the maze of the files system here to upload it.   The Paper Black Ark is a perfect example,  I'd love to build it, enhance it, and share my templates but there is no mechanism for doing so.  I can't even find the template.  How can that be?
              >
              >
              >
              > --- On Sat, 12/1/12, morval666 <morval@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: morval666 <morval@...>
              > Subject: [The Sea Of Claws] Re: Questions on 2.5D and 3D paper model designs
              > To: theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Saturday, December 1, 2012, 1:43 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >  
              >
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              >
              > I had a look at your photos, awesome! I agree the sail ships look the best. We need to find a way to give the non sail ships a little bit more 3d.
              >
              >
              >
              > I think I included a document on tips for paper modeling in my files? I did a lot of paper model building for fantasy games (www.worldworksgames.com) so I've had some experience with paper. Probably the most important tip is Edging. Basically get a bunch of different colour thick permanent markers. Almost everything should be edged in black. But the sails you could leave alone unless they are a different colour than white. Experiment with edging with different colour markers and see how you like it. But a good black edge around a model where you would normally see the white of the paper gives it that extra little bit for the eye.
              >
              >
              >
              > In the papermockup section my first five pictures are of early prototypes. I should mention that in their summary I guess. The real models look way better as you can see by looking at your photos of the Brets.
              >
              >
              >
              > I've got a few more ideas for improving the look of non sailships I'm hoping will work out nice.
              >
              >
              >
              > Konrad
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com, "wyld.hunt" <wyld.hunt@> wrote:
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Got the Bretonnian Corsairs and Galleons built - photos uploaded to theseaofclaws -> Photos -> Paper Mock-Ups (Bret1, Bret2, and Bret3). I used 110-lb cardstock this time.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > I like the look of the Bretonnians much better than the Chaos Dwarfs - with the sails, my mind does say "paper model" rather than "game token." Cardstock works better than my transparency method, although the 110-lb is so thick that crinkle lines do show in the sails.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Next I'll build the Black Ark using photo paper.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > By the way, for those who are still wondering where all of Morval's 2.5D template files are, they're under the manowargameArchive group -> Files -> Paper Models.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Wyldhunt
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              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • morval666
              Hey, I just had a look at the ships you created. Really nice. Harder to make, but nice. With a silhouette cutting machine they would be really easy to cut
              Message 6 of 29 , Dec 1 12:09 PM
                Hey, I just had a look at the ships you created. Really nice. Harder to make, but nice. With a silhouette cutting machine they would be really easy to cut out. You just pre score everything, let the machine cut them out and then glue it all together. I'll try converting one of yours to a Silhouette file and try cutting it.

                What did you use to design the models, I know there are a few unfolding programs out there, but I never really had a chance to learn any of them. Do you have the ships as a 3d model in the computer?

                The textures all look blurry and not quite right though. Thats part of the skinning process I imagine? Or if we got you really nice hires pictures of the ships could you make them look better.

                I just had a thought. I looked into Autodesk 123d Catch a few months ago for another thing I was thinking of doing. In theory using that program and taking a bunch of really nice photos we could fairly easily create a 3d model of each ship in digital form. Then use whatever program is best to unfold the 3d model to paper. Yet another project I'll probably never finish!

                Konrad

                --- In theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com, "epengr" <david.muir@...> wrote:
                >
                > Back when I was playing with the paper models, I thought it might look pretty good to combine the box model and 2.5D ideas. Box model hulls, wood masts and sails would be easy and really close to "true" shape in most cases.
                >
                > Just a thought.
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com, "morval666" <morval@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Some of the ships you could have a front or back, but I think it would look weird. I only tried that on the Black Ark with the skull and even have a fully 3d version of the entire ship that I haven't quite finished.
                > >
                > > I'll try and get some built and you can see how nice they look. I never really built very many of them and haven't really had any time to get games going with friends for years. I just like the looks of the models and I always keep on lurking here to see what kind of news there is.
                > >
                > > --- In theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com, "wyld.hunt" <wyld.hunt@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Agreed. Looking over what's been done, including your latest upload (thanks!), I'll either start with the Dwarfs (which'll be dead easy) or Elves in the latter part of December (once my current college semester is done).
                > > >
                > > > One thing I'm wondering - I see top-down and side views in your CD and Brettonia models, however nothing from front/rear. I think a front/rear panel would help with sight lines from these directions for non-sail ships, and help sail ships hold their vertical position better over time. What have you experienced in using these models?
                > > >
                > > > Wyldhunt
                > > >
                > > > --- In theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com, Konrad Jaschke <morval@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > I was just looking at the boxie paper models and from what I see the photos
                > > > > are great. We should be able to create some really nice 2.5D paper models
                > > > > out of them.
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Jonathan Leslie
                ah!!!   thank you.   I have joined, and await approval to see what models are available.   thanks. - Jon ... From: morval666
                Message 7 of 29 , Dec 1 12:13 PM
                  ah!!!   thank you.   I have joined, and await approval to see what models are available.  
                  thanks.

                  - Jon


                  --- On Sat, 12/1/12, morval666 <morval@...> wrote:

                  From: morval666 <morval@...>
                  Subject: [The Sea Of Claws] Re: Questions on 2.5D and 3D paper model designs
                  To: theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Saturday, December 1, 2012, 2:55 PM








                   









                  It seems to be a common question. :) Everything is on the archive site. You gotta join that site. I think it has something to do with the storage Yahoo gives each group. Just go to the home page here and then click on the archive site.



                  Konrad



                  --- In theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Leslie <jleslie48@...> wrote:

                  >

                  > can anybody tell me where I can find the patterns for the Paper Black Ark?

                  >

                  > afa adding details to ships, I do it all the time, but without a descent repository of paper models, expressly stating to please upload any updates, you guys are swimming upstream. 

                  >

                  > For example the Nautilus stempunk ship, I redid, re-sized, enhanced the graphics, but I'm not gonna negotiate the copyright legaleze or the maze of the files system here to upload it.   The Paper Black Ark is a perfect example,  I'd love to build it, enhance it, and share my templates but there is no mechanism for doing so.  I can't even find the template.  How can that be?

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > --- On Sat, 12/1/12, morval666 <morval@...> wrote:

                  >

                  > From: morval666 <morval@...>

                  > Subject: [The Sea Of Claws] Re: Questions on 2.5D and 3D paper model designs

                  > To: theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com

                  > Date: Saturday, December 1, 2012, 1:43 PM

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >  

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > I had a look at your photos, awesome! I agree the sail ships look the best. We need to find a way to give the non sail ships a little bit more 3d.

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > I think I included a document on tips for paper modeling in my files? I did a lot of paper model building for fantasy games (www.worldworksgames.com) so I've had some experience with paper. Probably the most important tip is Edging. Basically get a bunch of different colour thick permanent markers. Almost everything should be edged in black. But the sails you could leave alone unless they are a different colour than white. Experiment with edging with different colour markers and see how you like it. But a good black edge around a model where you would normally see the white of the paper gives it that extra little bit for the eye.

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > In the papermockup section my first five pictures are of early prototypes. I should mention that in their summary I guess. The real models look way better as you can see by looking at your photos of the Brets.

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > I've got a few more ideas for improving the look of non sailships I'm hoping will work out nice.

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > Konrad

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > --- In theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com, "wyld.hunt" <wyld.hunt@> wrote:

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > Got the Bretonnian Corsairs and Galleons built - photos uploaded to theseaofclaws -> Photos -> Paper Mock-Ups (Bret1, Bret2, and Bret3). I used 110-lb cardstock this time.

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > I like the look of the Bretonnians much better than the Chaos Dwarfs - with the sails, my mind does say "paper model" rather than "game token." Cardstock works better than my transparency method, although the 110-lb is so thick that crinkle lines do show in the sails.

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > Next I'll build the Black Ark using photo paper.

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > By the way, for those who are still wondering where all of Morval's 2.5D template files are, they're under the manowargameArchive group -> Files -> Paper Models.

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > Wyldhunt

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

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                  >

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                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >






















                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • epengr
                  I used Metasequoia or the modeling and UV mapping, and Pepakura to unfold them. There were other options and I would suspect there are even more now. As I
                  Message 8 of 29 , Dec 1 8:15 PM
                    I used Metasequoia or the modeling and UV mapping, and Pepakura to unfold them. There were other options and I would suspect there are even more now.

                    As I recall, pepakura works directly with a Silhouette or CraftRobo, which is why I chose it.

                    I don't thing that 123D would help. It will create a relatively high resolution point cloud model. A large part of the work in creating a good paper model is modelling it with geometry that lends itself to unfolding. Creating the shape you want, with the fewest possible polys. Pepakura would like unfold a mold from 123D, but it would have so many polys that it would take forever to cut out and you'd never be able to work out how to fold it once you did. Even "low poly" game models from 5 years ago were too high res to work without rebuilding.

                    The textures were take from the box models, since i don't own the minis. They weren't high res to start with, and the projection technique I use to create the UV maps distorted then somewhat.

                    If you have any more questions, fire away. It's been a while, but I may be able to help.

                    Oh, and my "new" idea is to keep it simple and represent the hulls with "cuboid" boxes and the sails (or towers or whatever's above deck height) with 2D. Fold a box, attach a sail. Done.

                    2.75D?

                    Mmmm, fractal fleets....








                    --- In theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com, "morval666" <morval@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hey, I just had a look at the ships you created. Really nice. Harder to make, but nice. With a silhouette cutting machine they would be really easy to cut out. You just pre score everything, let the machine cut them out and then glue it all together. I'll try converting one of yours to a Silhouette file and try cutting it.
                    >
                    > What did you use to design the models, I know there are a few unfolding programs out there, but I never really had a chance to learn any of them. Do you have the ships as a 3d model in the computer?
                    >
                    > The textures all look blurry and not quite right though. Thats part of the skinning process I imagine? Or if we got you really nice hires pictures of the ships could you make them look better.
                    >
                    > I just had a thought. I looked into Autodesk 123d Catch a few months ago for another thing I was thinking of doing. In theory using that program and taking a bunch of really nice photos we could fairly easily create a 3d model of each ship in digital form. Then use whatever program is best to unfold the 3d model to paper. Yet another project I'll probably never finish!
                    >
                    > Konrad
                    >
                    > --- In theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com, "epengr" <david.muir@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Back when I was playing with the paper models, I thought it might look pretty good to combine the box model and 2.5D ideas. Box model hulls, wood masts and sails would be easy and really close to "true" shape in most cases.
                    > >
                    > > Just a thought.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com, "morval666" <morval@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Some of the ships you could have a front or back, but I think it would look weird. I only tried that on the Black Ark with the skull and even have a fully 3d version of the entire ship that I haven't quite finished.
                    > > >
                    > > > I'll try and get some built and you can see how nice they look. I never really built very many of them and haven't really had any time to get games going with friends for years. I just like the looks of the models and I always keep on lurking here to see what kind of news there is.
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com, "wyld.hunt" <wyld.hunt@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Agreed. Looking over what's been done, including your latest upload (thanks!), I'll either start with the Dwarfs (which'll be dead easy) or Elves in the latter part of December (once my current college semester is done).
                    > > > >
                    > > > > One thing I'm wondering - I see top-down and side views in your CD and Brettonia models, however nothing from front/rear. I think a front/rear panel would help with sight lines from these directions for non-sail ships, and help sail ships hold their vertical position better over time. What have you experienced in using these models?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Wyldhunt
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In theseaofclaws@yahoogroups.com, Konrad Jaschke <morval@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I was just looking at the boxie paper models and from what I see the photos
                    > > > > > are great. We should be able to create some really nice 2.5D paper models
                    > > > > > out of them.
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
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