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Werewolves, blood and biting

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  • gianolivia
    Okay, weird topic...I know...But the thought came to me, A werewolf bites a human and they are turned into werewolves (of course if they have not phased, like
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 6, 2010
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      Okay, weird topic...I know...But the thought came to me, "A werewolf bites a human and they are turned into werewolves (of course if they have not phased, like Greyback, they just get a little more hairy and start having cravings for rare steaks) The BLOOD of the werewolf does not transfer to the human. The human bleeds. So there must be the saliva that carries the germ and makes werewolves. Right? Wrong?

      Okay, what about this question: "If someone drank werewolf blood - like in a ritual - would that make the person become a werewolf?

      Please,please,please...I want to hear your thoughts and ideas whether canon or not. I'm begging for help.

      Thanks!
      Livvy
    • CharmedForce
      I would think that since the transformative properties are in the saliva, it would also be in all bodily fluid. The only biological explanation I could imagine
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 7, 2010
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        I would think that since the transformative properties are in the saliva, it would also be in all bodily fluid. The only biological explanation I could imagine for it to be in only the saliva is if it is a digestive enzyme secreted in the mouth.

        ~CF~


        --- In thepetulantpoetess@yahoogroups.com, "gianolivia" <ocucco@...> wrote:
        >
        > Okay, weird topic...I know...But the thought came to me, "A werewolf bites a human and they are turned into werewolves (of course if they have not phased, like Greyback, they just get a little more hairy and start having cravings for rare steaks) The BLOOD of the werewolf does not transfer to the human. The human bleeds. So there must be the saliva that carries the germ and makes werewolves. Right? Wrong?
        >
        > Okay, what about this question: "If someone drank werewolf blood - like in a ritual - would that make the person become a werewolf?
        >
        > Please,please,please...I want to hear your thoughts and ideas whether canon or not. I'm begging for help.
        >
        > Thanks!
        > Livvy
        >
      • Shanyn
        Ooh... what an interesting question! Prepare for some rambling thoughts... sorry. I ve been pondering doing a werewolf story myself, and this is the sort of
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 7, 2010
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          Ooh... what an interesting question! Prepare for some rambling thoughts... sorry. I've been pondering doing a werewolf story myself, and this is the sort of thing I geek out over.

          Lycanthropy is referred to as a curse, so maybe a biological agent isn't involved at all, and the thing is purely magical. This leads one to question why a werewolf's bite is required for transmission, though, and not a potion or spell/wand combination. But biologically speaking, if a "germ" is the causative factor for becoming a werewolf, it would be perfectly plausible that it is transmitted via saliva during the bite (like rabies). The alternative argument that it's a blood-borne disease could also be made.

          There are lots of transmission methods available to viruses and bacteria and so forth, but not all germs make use of all methods due to the specific adaptations of each bug. Many infections are tissue-limited (example: pneumonia infection is limited to lung tissue, not the entire body, even though your antibodies to it are everywhere). So if the werewolf bug resides in the salivary glands only, it would not necessarily stand to reason that drinking werewolf blood would also lead to transmission - the bug might not be in the blood *and* the saliva of the werewolf. On the other hand, some diseases can go septic, where all the tissues of the body are infected. In this case, contact with tainted blood *might* result in transmission. Keep in mind, though, that digestive acids in the stomach do a really good job of destroying a lot of disease agents, so this might prevent transmission from drinking the blood, too, unless the bug has specifically adapted to survive that harsh environment. A possibly more reliable blood transmission method would be physical contact with an open wound (the bite?) or transfusion. Some other methods of transmission could be sexual contact (lycanthropy as STD, ha, ha, ha), or infectious particles becoming airborne (coughing & sneezing, like with the cold and flu) or waterborne (nasty business in the water supply). These seem less likely, since werewolves don't seem to arise seasonally or by casual contact according to most mythology.

          One might make the argument that the werewolf bug must reside in at the very least two tissues: salivary glands and brain, or blood and brain, considering the mental effects of the transformation and requirements of transmission via bite. If blood transmission is possible and/or necessary, perhaps one could argue that during the werewolf transformation, the eruption of large canine fangs might cause the werewolf's gums to bleed, thereby bringing about contact between tainted werewolf blood and that of the victim's via the bite, bypassing the stomach acid challenges.

          All this completely ignores the effects of lunar phase and/or magic, which can alter any of the above arguments in any way the writer imagines. When JKR proposed that a non-full-moon bite did not result in full transmission of werewolf-ism from Greyback to Bill Weasley, all my above biological arguments go down the toilet.

          But biologically speaking, you're either infected or you're not. Diseases are worse or better due to the condition of your immune system, not the phase of the moon. My cold might be worse than yours, even if we're infected with the same virus, because your immune system is more aggressive than mine. Or we might be infected with different viruses exhibiting the same symptoms only with different virulence.

          Now, having said that, it could possibly be argued that within the werewolf, the infection might ebb and flow according to the life cycle of the bug. Perhaps the bug happens to produce infectious spores during the full moon only or something along those lines, or the concentration of the virus in the body increases cyclically, only meeting a critical threshold during the full moon. This doesn't really explain why Bill Weasley post-bite displays only a few random symptoms, though, rather than full blown lycanthropy. The biology of it breaks down here, and I think this is where the "magic" comes into play. Why would the werewolf bug only infect hair follicles and Bill's brain just enough to influence a craving for raw meat, when the typical course of infection involves something far more invasive?

          Aside note #1: JKR also argued that an Animagus could not be infected while transformed because only humans can be infected, which would mean that an Animagus assumes the genetic makeup of the animal transformed into, rather than retaining any human tissue. So either non-human tissue cannot be infected, or animal immune systems can handle the werewolf bug easily. This is a common occurrence in epidemiology, too: humans don't get many animal diseases and vice versa.

          Aside note #2: It's unclear in canon whether Muggles can become werewolves from a bite. Does lycanthropy rely on magical ability of the victim? Perhaps being a wizard allows a victim to survive the bite, and Muggles simply die from it? The answers might impact the transmission theory, implicating magical enhancement of a wizard's immune system. It does appear that wizards don't succumb to typical Muggle diseases (Nobody ever seemed to catch a cold in that drafty castle, did they?). It would be interesting to see if the opposite is true: can Muggles catch dragonpox?

          Apologies if this overlong answer was not what you were looking for. Good luck & best wishes!


          --- In thepetulantpoetess@yahoogroups.com, "gianolivia" <ocucco@...> wrote:
          >
          > Okay, weird topic...I know...But the thought came to me, "A werewolf bites a human and they are turned into werewolves (of course if they have not phased, like Greyback, they just get a little more hairy and start having cravings for rare steaks) The BLOOD of the werewolf does not transfer to the human. The human bleeds. So there must be the saliva that carries the germ and makes werewolves. Right? Wrong?
          >
          > Okay, what about this question: "If someone drank werewolf blood - like in a ritual - would that make the person become a werewolf?
          >
          > Please,please,please...I want to hear your thoughts and ideas whether canon or not. I'm begging for help.
          >
          > Thanks!
          > Livvy
          >
        • Maria Hill
          Kewl question.   The way I see Lycropanthy(sic) is a bit like AIDS - or possibly Herpes.   AIDS = it s in the body fluids, passible through a physical
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 7, 2010
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            Kewl question.
             
            The way I see Lycropanthy(sic) is a bit like AIDS - or possibly Herpes.
             
            AIDS = it's in the body fluids, passible through a physical contact(biting) and affects the victim by invading the blood(bite) There is no cure.  It changes the bodies cells, even for only one night a month. It has complication effects on the body, which prematurely ages the victim.
             
            Herpes = because the moon phase is a trigger of the dease/curse.  Bill was slightly effected - he liked rare meat after being bit. Hairy - I missed that in canon, I though that the only change was the meat thing?  That being said, when a werewolf isn't transformed, is he really contageous? Or is the curse/dease in remission of sorts until the moon triggers the transformation? Like a Herpes outbreak.  and again, it's only passed by certain forms of physical contact.
             
            That being said, I wonder what forms of 'protection' Tonks used so she didn't get infected?  She did marry Remus and have a kid. Kissing and other physical activities implied, right?
             
            Maria

            --- On Tue, 7/6/10, gianolivia <ocucco@...> wrote:

            From: gianolivia <ocucco@...>
            Subject: [yahoo: thepetulantpoetess] Werewolves, blood and biting
            To: thepetulantpoetess@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 8:08 PM

             
            Okay, weird topic...I know...But the thought came to me, "A werewolf bites a human and they are turned into werewolves (of course if they have not phased, like Greyback, they just get a little more hairy and start having cravings for rare steaks) The BLOOD of the werewolf does not transfer to the human. The human bleeds. So there must be the saliva that carries the germ and makes werewolves. Right? Wrong?

            Okay, what about this question: "If someone drank werewolf blood - like in a ritual - would that make the person become a werewolf?

            Please,please,please...I want to hear your thoughts and ideas whether canon or not. I'm begging for help.

            Thanks!
            Livvy

          • Lynnette Richards
            I’m pretty sure Remus still went into seclusion on the night of the full moon. He would be very dangerous to Tonks if something went wrong with his potion,
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 7, 2010
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              I’m pretty sure Remus still went into seclusion on the night of the full moon. He would be very dangerous to Tonks if something went wrong with his potion, for example. The other thing I wonder is whether, once the DNA is altered and the person bit turns into a werewolf, whether they pass that on to their offspring (if any)? What about Teddy? He is, genetically speaking, half werewolf and half wizard.

               

               

              Warm regards,

               

              Fizzabella

               

              From: thepetulantpoetess@yahoogroups.com [mailto:thepetulantpoetess@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maria Hill
              Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 11:09 AM
              To: thepetulantpoetess@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [yahoo: thepetulantpoetess] Werewolves, blood and biting

               

               

              Kewl question.

               

              The way I see Lycropanthy(sic) is a bit like AIDS - or possibly Herpes.

               

              AIDS = it's in the body fluids, passible through a physical contact(biting) and affects the victim by invading the blood(bite) There is no cure.  It changes the bodies cells, even for only one night a month. It has complication effects on the body, which prematurely ages the victim.

               

              Herpes = because the moon phase is a trigger of the dease/curse.  Bill was slightly effected - he liked rare meat after being bit. Hairy - I missed that in canon, I though that the only change was the meat thing?  That being said, when a werewolf isn't transformed, is he really contageous? Or is the curse/dease in remission of sorts until the moon triggers the transformation? Like a Herpes outbreak.  and again, it's only passed by certain forms of physical contact.

               

              That being said, I wonder what forms of 'protection' Tonks used so she didn't get infected?  She did marry Remus and have a kid. Kissing and other physical activities implied, right?

               

              Maria

              --- On Tue, 7/6/10, gianolivia <ocucco@...> wrote:


              From: gianolivia <ocucco@...>
              Subject: [yahoo: thepetulantpoetess] Werewolves, blood and biting
              To: thepetulantpoetess@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 8:08 PM

               

              Okay, weird topic...I know...But the thought came to me, "A werewolf bites a human and they are turned into werewolves (of course if they have not phased, like Greyback, they just get a little more hairy and start having cravings for rare steaks) The BLOOD of the werewolf does not transfer to the human. The human bleeds. So there must be the saliva that carries the germ and makes werewolves. Right? Wrong?

              Okay, what about this question: "If someone drank werewolf blood - like in a ritual - would that make the person become a werewolf?

              Please,please,please...I want to hear your thoughts and ideas whether canon or not. I'm begging for help.

              Thanks!
              Livvy

            • starmite00@aol.com
              Maybe, being a magical disease, its spread depends on the intent of the actions of the person diseased (like the Unforgivable Curses). What I mean is, even if
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 7, 2010
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                Maybe, being a magical disease, its spread depends on the intent of the actions of the person diseased (like the Unforgivable Curses).  What I mean is, even if it is a saliva-spread disease, it will only infect someone if transferred during an attack.  If the infected individual does not mean the other person harm, then the disease does not spread. Thoughts?

                ~Kristen



                -----Original Message-----
                From: Lynnette Richards <fizzabella1110@...>
                To: thepetulantpoetess@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wed, Jul 7, 2010 2:43 pm
                Subject: RE: [yahoo: thepetulantpoetess] Werewolves, blood and biting

                 
                I’m pretty sure Remus still went into seclusion on the night of the full moon. He would be very dangerous to Tonks if something went wrong with his potion, for example. The other thing I wonder is whether, once the DNA is altered and the person bit turns into a werewolf, whether they pass that on to their offspring (if any)? What about Teddy? He is, genetically speaking, half werewolf and half wizard.
                 
                 
                Warm regards,
                 
                Fizzabella
                 
                From: thepetulantpoetess@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:thepetulant poetess@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Maria Hill
                Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 11:09 AM
                To: thepetulantpoetess@ yahoogroups. com
                Subject: Re: [yahoo: thepetulantpoetess] Werewolves, blood and biting
                 
                 
                Kewl question.
                 
                The way I see Lycropanthy( sic) is a bit like AIDS - or possibly Herpes.
                 
                AIDS = it's in the body fluids, passible through a physical contact(biting) and affects the victim by invading the blood(bite) There is no cure.  It changes the bodies cells, even for only one night a month. It has complication effects on the body, which prematurely ages the victim.
                 
                Herpes = because the moon phase is a trigger of the dease/curse.  Bill was slightly effected - he liked rare meat after being bit. Hairy - I missed that in canon, I though that the only change was the meat thing?  That being said, when a werewolf isn't transformed, is he really contageous? Or is the curse/dease in remission of sorts until the moon triggers the transformation? Like a Herpes outbreak.  and again, it's only passed by certain forms of physical contact.
                 
                That being said, I wonder what forms of 'protection' Tonks used so she didn't get infected?  She did marry Remus and have a kid. Kissing and other physical activities implied, right?
                 
                Maria

                --- On Tue, 7/6/10, gianolivia <ocucco@comcast. net> wrote:

                From: gianolivia <ocucco@comcast. net>
                Subject: [yahoo: thepetulantpoetess] Werewolves, blood and biting
                To: thepetulantpoetess@ yahoogroups. com
                Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 8:08 PM
                 
                Okay, weird topic...I know...But the thought came to me, "A werewolf bites a human and they are turned into werewolves (of course if they have not phased, like Greyback, they just get a little more hairy and start having cravings for rare steaks) The BLOOD of the werewolf does not transfer to the human. The human bleeds. So there must be the saliva that carries the germ and makes werewolves. Right? Wrong?

                Okay, what about this question: "If someone drank werewolf blood - like in a ritual - would that make the person become a werewolf?

                Please,please, please... I want to hear your thoughts and ideas whether canon or not. I'm begging for help.

                Thanks!
                Livvy
              • Maria Hill
                I was thinking more on the lines of kissing, french kissing, playful-sexual nipping, licking.... that kind of thing. You know, foreplay!   Maria ... From:
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 7, 2010
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                  I was thinking more on the lines of kissing, french kissing, playful-sexual nipping, licking.... that kind of thing. You know, foreplay!
                   
                  Maria

                  --- On Wed, 7/7/10, Lynnette Richards <fizzabella1110@...> wrote:

                  From: Lynnette Richards <fizzabella1110@...>
                  Subject: RE: [yahoo: thepetulantpoetess] Werewolves, blood and biting
                  To: thepetulantpoetess@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, July 7, 2010, 11:43 AM

                   

                  I’m pretty sure Remus still went into seclusion on the night of the full moon. He would be very dangerous to Tonks if something went wrong with his potion, for example. The other thing I wonder is whether, once the DNA is altered and the person bit turns into a werewolf, whether they pass that on to their offspring (if any)? What about Teddy? He is, genetically speaking, half werewolf and half wizard.

                   

                   

                  Warm regards,

                   

                  Fizzabella

                   

                  From: thepetulantpoetess@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:thepetulant poetess@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Maria Hill
                  Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 11:09 AM
                  To: thepetulantpoetess@ yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: Re: [yahoo: thepetulantpoetess] Werewolves, blood and biting

                   

                   

                  The way I see Lycropanthy( sic) is a bit like AIDS - or possibly Herpes.

                   

                  AIDS = it's in the body fluids, passible through a physical contact(biting) and affects the victim by invading the blood(bite) There is no cure.  It changes the bodies cells, even for only one night a month. It has complication effects on the body, which prematurely ages the victim.

                   

                  Herpes = because the moon phase is a trigger of the dease/curse.  Bill was slightly effected - he liked rare meat after being bit. Hairy - I missed that in canon, I though that the only change was the meat thing?  That being said, when a werewolf isn't transformed, is he really contageous? Or is the curse/dease in remission of sorts until the moon triggers the transformation? Like a Herpes outbreak.  and again, it's only passed by certain forms of physical contact.

                   

                  That being said, I wonder what forms of 'protection' Tonks used so she didn't get infected?  She did marry Remus and have a kid. Kissing and other physical activities implied, right?

                   

                  Maria

                  --- On Tue, 7/6/10, gianolivia <ocucco@comcast. net> wrote:


                  From: gianolivia <ocucco@comcast. net>
                  Subject: [yahoo: thepetulantpoetess] Werewolves, blood and biting
                  To: thepetulantpoetess@ yahoogroups. com
                  Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 8:08 PM

                   

                  Okay, weird topic...I know...But the thought came to me, "A werewolf bites a human and they are turned into werewolves (of course if they have not phased, like Greyback, they just get a little more hairy and start having cravings for rare steaks) The BLOOD of the werewolf does not transfer to the human. The human bleeds. So there must be the saliva that carries the germ and makes werewolves. Right? Wrong?

                  Okay, what about this question: "If someone drank werewolf blood - like in a ritual - would that make the person become a werewolf?

                  Please,please, please... I want to hear your thoughts and ideas whether canon or not. I'm begging for help.

                  Thanks!
                  Livvy

                  Kewl question.

                   

                • Shanyn
                  According to Harry Potter Wikipedia, Ted Lupin did not become a werewolf. No explanation of why or why not accompanies this statement, but it appears in the HP
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jul 7, 2010
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                    According to Harry Potter Wikipedia, Ted Lupin did not become a werewolf. No explanation of why or why not accompanies this statement, but it appears in the HP Lexicon as well. I think the source derives from a JKR interview. They do mention that Remus *feared* the baby might be a werewolf (I think I remember this bit from DH), but this is explained away due to the fact very few werewolves ever managed to procreate, and therefore the answer was unknown before Ted's birth.

                    Apparently, then, the werewolf tranformation does not reach the genetic level or at least is not permanent. It might be theoretically possible to argue that offspring conceived during a full moon transformation might be genetically werewolves, but then what would happen to the pregnancy when the female reverted back to her human form?

                    Very tricky issues, indeed.


                    --- In thepetulantpoetess@yahoogroups.com, "Lynnette Richards" <fizzabella1110@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I’m pretty sure Remus still went into seclusion on the night of the full moon. He would be very dangerous to Tonks if something went wrong with his potion, for example. The other thing I wonder is whether, once the DNA is altered and the person bit turns into a werewolf, whether they pass that on to their offspring (if any)? What about Teddy? He is, genetically speaking, half werewolf and half wizard.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Warm regards,
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Fizzabella
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > From: thepetulantpoetess@yahoogroups.com [mailto:thepetulantpoetess@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maria Hill
                    > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 11:09 AM
                    > To: thepetulantpoetess@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [yahoo: thepetulantpoetess] Werewolves, blood and biting
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Kewl question.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The way I see Lycropanthy(sic) is a bit like AIDS - or possibly Herpes.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > AIDS = it's in the body fluids, passible through a physical contact(biting) and affects the victim by invading the blood(bite) There is no cure. It changes the bodies cells, even for only one night a month. It has complication effects on the body, which prematurely ages the victim.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Herpes = because the moon phase is a trigger of the dease/curse. Bill was slightly effected - he liked rare meat after being bit. Hairy - I missed that in canon, I though that the only change was the meat thing? That being said, when a werewolf isn't transformed, is he really contageous? Or is the curse/dease in remission of sorts until the moon triggers the transformation? Like a Herpes outbreak. and again, it's only passed by certain forms of physical contact.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > That being said, I wonder what forms of 'protection' Tonks used so she didn't get infected? She did marry Remus and have a kid. Kissing and other physical activities implied, right?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Maria
                    >
                    > --- On Tue, 7/6/10, gianolivia <ocucco@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > From: gianolivia <ocucco@...>
                    > Subject: [yahoo: thepetulantpoetess] Werewolves, blood and biting
                    > To: thepetulantpoetess@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 8:08 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Okay, weird topic...I know...But the thought came to me, "A werewolf bites a human and they are turned into werewolves (of course if they have not phased, like Greyback, they just get a little more hairy and start having cravings for rare steaks) The BLOOD of the werewolf does not transfer to the human. The human bleeds. So there must be the saliva that carries the germ and makes werewolves. Right? Wrong?
                    >
                    > Okay, what about this question: "If someone drank werewolf blood - like in a ritual - would that make the person become a werewolf?
                    >
                    > Please,please,please...I want to hear your thoughts and ideas whether canon or not. I'm begging for help.
                    >
                    > Thanks!
                    > Livvy
                    >
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