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Re: A Statement by Steve Stubbs

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  • Steve Stubbs
    ... a ... Let me say it again: YES.
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 13, 2002
      --- In theos-talk@y..., "Daniel H. Caldwell" <comments@b...> wrote:
      > Steve, are you actually telling us that you believe Leadbeater was
      a
      > pathological liar but (in your opinion) HPB was NOT a pathological
      > liar?

      Let me say it again: YES.
    • netemara888
      ... *********** I was thinking about this very thing Daniel as I fell asleep reading Sven Eck s book and The Mahatma Letters. Why? Because Damodar deserves a
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 13, 2002
        --- In theos-talk@y..., "Daniel H. Caldwell" <comments@b...> wrote:
        > Gregory Tillett wrote:
        >
        > "Given that Leadbeater was obviously a pathological liar, nothing
        > can be taken on his word alone."
        >
        > Steve Stubbs commented on Tillett's statement:
        >
        > "Absolutely true, and thanks for saying ir. It is genuinely
        > embarrassing that the Adyar TS extols this character to the cost of
        > HPB."
        >
        > But I wonder if Tillett is of the opinion that HPB was ALSO "a
        > pathological liar"? If that is true, the Adyar TS might not
        > want to "promote" ("extol"?!) HPB either!
        >
        > I get the impression from reading material by K. Paul Johnson and
        > Brigitte Muehlegger that they believe HPB was "a pathological liar."
        >
        > OBTW, Steve, I am assuming that you do NOT consider HPB "a
        > pathological liar." Right?
        >
        > Daniel H. Caldwell
        > BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES
        > http://hpb.cc

        ***********

        I was thinking about this very thing Daniel as I fell asleep reading
        Sven Eck's book and The Mahatma Letters. Why? Because Damodar
        deserves a second look in terms of the main occult transmitter of the
        letters. He was the man!!! He and HPB lived on intimate terms, along
        with HSO at the Crow's Nest and he was a walking telegraph this man.
        I think he has been described as such too. They were in cohots if
        there was anything shaddy going on, but I think anything genuine had
        Damodar's stamp on it, and he may have allowed HPB to take credit for
        some of his successful transmissions. That's how close I think they
        were. Next, they will be saying she had the man killed!!!!

        But my comment is to this about HPB being a liar. I think she told an
        outright lie when she denied that Damodar was not found dead, or
        frozen to death on the way to Tibet. I have always felt that it was a
        true story, that he met his death when he left for the Himalayas.
        What do you think about that? I found her statements in Eck's book
        where she said "Damodar was coming home any day, and that his death
        and the finding of his naked body and clothes nearby was a lie."
        (paraphrase) I can't believe her on this one==can you?

        Netemara
      • Steve Stubbs
        ... If the statement was false, is it a lie or a refusal to face a painful reality?
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 13, 2002
          --- In theos-talk@y..., "netemara888" <netemara888@y...> wrote:
          > I found her statements in Eck's book
          > where she said "Damodar was coming home any day, and that his death
          > and the finding of his naked body and clothes nearby was a lie."
          > (paraphrase) I can't believe her on this one==can you?

          If the statement was false, is it a lie or a refusal to face a
          painful reality?
        • netemara888
          ... death ... ********* Well, yeah, you get the gist of what I am saying because that s why I mention how close they were. I was torn between believing she DID
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 13, 2002
            --- In theos-talk@y..., "Steve Stubbs" <stevestubbs@y...> wrote:
            > --- In theos-talk@y..., "netemara888" <netemara888@y...> wrote:
            > > I found her statements in Eck's book
            > > where she said "Damodar was coming home any day, and that his
            death
            > > and the finding of his naked body and clothes nearby was a lie."
            > > (paraphrase) I can't believe her on this one==can you?
            >
            > If the statement was false, is it a lie or a refusal to face a
            > painful reality?

            *********

            Well, yeah, you get the gist of what I am saying because that's why I
            mention how close they were. I was torn between believing she DID not
            want to face he was gone and that she was given, had to have heard
            something I KNOW, and still wrote that this information was lies. She
            called the info she received lies. That's a hard one to call. They
            had karmic ties going way back. But I think she was looking out for
            her baby too: The TS. If she thought that DKM's death and manner of
            death was talked about and spread about the world it would not bode
            well for her influence and the masters THEY revered. Final answer....

            Netemara
          • Daniel H. Caldwell
            In June, 1886, Master KH wrote to Colonel Olcott: The poor boy has had his fall. Before he could stand in the presence of the Masters he had to undergo the
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 13, 2002
              In June, 1886, Master KH wrote to Colonel Olcott:

              "The poor boy has had his fall. Before he could stand in the presence
              of the 'Masters' he had to undergo the severest trials that a
              neophyte ever passed through, to atone for the many questionable
              doings in which he had over-zealously taken part, bringing disgrace
              upon the sacred science and its adepts. The mental and physical
              suffering was too much for his weak frame, which has been quite
              prostrated, but he will recover in course of time. . . . " Letters
              from the Masters of the Wisdom, First Series, Letter 29.

              Who wrote this letter? HPB was in Europe and Damodar's whereabouts
              were unknown.

              Daniel H. Caldwell
              BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES
              http://hpb.cc
            • netemara888
              ... presence ... *********** Hi, I just tuned in here for the evening and have to read all these posts which look great. So you are saying that KH did this
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 14, 2002
                --- In theos-talk@y..., "Daniel H. Caldwell" <comments@b...> wrote:
                > In June, 1886, Master KH wrote to Colonel Olcott:
                >
                > "The poor boy has had his fall. Before he could stand in the
                presence
                > of the 'Masters' he had to undergo the severest trials that a
                > neophyte ever passed through, to atone for the many questionable
                > doings in which he had over-zealously taken part, bringing disgrace
                > upon the sacred science and its adepts. The mental and physical
                > suffering was too much for his weak frame, which has been quite
                > prostrated, but he will recover in course of time. . . . " Letters
                > from the Masters of the Wisdom, First Series, Letter 29.
                >
                > Who wrote this letter? HPB was in Europe and Damodar's whereabouts
                > were unknown.
                >
                > Daniel H. Caldwell
                > BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES
                > http://hpb.cc

                ***********
                Hi, I just tuned in here for the evening and have to read all these
                posts which look great. So you are saying that KH did this letter. I
                am not saying only DKM and HPB did all the letters I am saying they
                did them in some sort of unholy alliance, which is not my
                characterization but that of others.

                What did he do that was so awful bad? I focus on HPB so much I have
                not given this much thought. What did I miss? Is it all about the
                forgeries? I know he did a lot, but is that really it? My research
                tells me it is was karmic payback, not from that lifetime of foibles
                and sins so much, but from other lives of much deeper sins, that I am
                still tracing.

                What the heck did he do from historical standpoint that was so bad?
                And what is your opinion of what happened to Damodar, Daniel? I think
                he died right after he left..

                Netemara

                BTW Thanks for the new info

                ***********
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