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Tributes to Mrs. Radha Burnier

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  • .:.MKR777
    Tributes were paid to Mrs. Radha Burnier at a memorial meeting on Saturday in Adyar. Here is a newspaper report.
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 10, 2013
      Tributes were paid to Mrs. Radha Burnier at a memorial meeting on Saturday in Adyar. Here is a newspaper report.
    • Sampsa Kuukasjärvi
      In the latest Indian Theososophist, December 2013, there is a writing called Radha Burnier: Reminiscences by her relative, Prof. P. Krishna. You can download
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 9, 2013
        In the latest Indian Theososophist, December 2013, there is a writing called "Radha Burnier: Reminiscences" by her relative, Prof. P. Krishna. You can download the issue here: http://theosophy-india.org/magazine/.

        He tells how he hesitated to write about J. Krishnamurti to The Theosophist in the beginning of the 1990s, but Radha asked him to do it saying: "We love controversies!". This statement of his is interesting: "Controversies are good things because they force us to take a fresh look at our own thinking and conclusions. It is only dogmatic minds that object to controversy; a mind that is in quest of truth welcomes it since it provokes inquiry and therefore promotes learning."

        I agree with Radha that there is no real division between Theosophy and Krishnamurti. It seems that if Krishnamurti had talked Theosophical metaphysics, Theosophists and other people would not have noticed his message, which pointed to a fresh look at Theosophy. I think we can compare this to HPB and Christianity: if she, in her time, had talked much about Christian doctrines, even esoterically, many people would not have noticed her new universal message, as independent on religions. So I think that via Krishnamurti's teachings Radha did a very remarkable job in working against dogmatism in the Adyar TS.

        Sampsa



        2013/11/10 .:.MKR777 <mkr777@...>
         

        Tributes were paid to Mrs. Radha Burnier at a memorial meeting on Saturday in Adyar. Here is a newspaper report.


      • .:.MKR777
        Thanks. Will post a msg later today. *MKR*
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 9, 2013
          Thanks. Will post a msg later today.

          MKR


          On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 7:40 AM, .:.MKR777 <mkr777@...> wrote:
           

          Tributes were paid to Mrs. Radha Burnier at a memorial meeting on Saturday in Adyar. Here is a newspaper report.


        • .:.MKR777
          Do you mind my posting the msg deleting your name? *MKR* On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:24 AM, Sampsa Kuukasjärvi
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 9, 2013
            Do you mind my posting the msg deleting your name?

            MKR


            On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:24 AM, Sampsa Kuukasjärvi <sampsa.kuukasjarvi@...> wrote:
             

            In the latest Indian Theososophist, December 2013, there is a writing called "Radha Burnier: Reminiscences" by her relative, Prof. P. Krishna. You can download the issue here: http://theosophy-india.org/magazine/.

            He tells how he hesitated to write about J. Krishnamurti to The Theosophist in the beginning of the 1990s, but Radha asked him to do it saying: "We love controversies!". This statement of his is interesting: "Controversies are good things because they force us to take a fresh look at our own thinking and conclusions. It is only dogmatic minds that object to controversy; a mind that is in quest of truth welcomes it since it provokes inquiry and therefore promotes learning."

            I agree with Radha that there is no real division between Theosophy and Krishnamurti. It seems that if Krishnamurti had talked Theosophical metaphysics, Theosophists and other people would not have noticed his message, which pointed to a fresh look at Theosophy. I think we can compare this to HPB and Christianity: if she, in her time, had talked much about Christian doctrines, even esoterically, many people would not have noticed her new universal message, as independent on religions. So I think that via Krishnamurti's teachings Radha did a very remarkable job in working against dogmatism in the Adyar TS.

            Sampsa



            2013/11/10 .:.MKR777 <mkr777@...>

             

            Tributes were paid to Mrs. Radha Burnier at a memorial meeting on Saturday in Adyar. Here is a newspaper report.



          • Sampsa Kuukasjärvi
            I don t mind. I think sometimes it is good good to delete previous messages or at least parts of them, because otherwise messages become too long and heavy.
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 9, 2013
              I don't mind. I think sometimes it is good good to delete previous messages or at least parts of them, because otherwise messages become too long and heavy.


              2013/12/9 .:.MKR777 <mkr777@...>
               

              Do you mind my posting the msg deleting your name?

              MKR


              On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:24 AM, Sampsa Kuukasjärvi <sampsa.kuukasjarvi@...> wrote:
               

              In the latest Indian Theososophist, December 2013, there is a writing called "Radha Burnier: Reminiscences" by her relative, Prof. P. Krishna. You can download the issue here: http://theosophy-india.org/magazine/.

              He tells how he hesitated to write about J. Krishnamurti to The Theosophist in the beginning of the 1990s, but Radha asked him to do it saying: "We love controversies!". This statement of his is interesting: "Controversies are good things because they force us to take a fresh look at our own thinking and conclusions. It is only dogmatic minds that object to controversy; a mind that is in quest of truth welcomes it since it provokes inquiry and therefore promotes learning."

              I agree with Radha that there is no real division between Theosophy and Krishnamurti. It seems that if Krishnamurti had talked Theosophical metaphysics, Theosophists and other people would not have noticed his message, which pointed to a fresh look at Theosophy. I think we can compare this to HPB and Christianity: if she, in her time, had talked much about Christian doctrines, even esoterically, many people would not have noticed her new universal message, as independent on religions. So I think that via Krishnamurti's teachings Radha did a very remarkable job in working against dogmatism in the Adyar TS.

              Sampsa



              2013/11/10 .:.MKR777 <mkr777@...>

               

              Tributes were paid to Mrs. Radha Burnier at a memorial meeting on Saturday in Adyar. Here is a newspaper report.




            • Morten Nymann Olesen
              A few views... These are, as I see it, indeed strange views you here forward... If there is no real division between Theosophy and Krishnamurti, then some
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 9, 2013
                A few views...

                These are, as I see it, indeed strange views you here forward...
                If there is no real division between Theosophy and Krishnamurti, then some persons might argue there is no real division between Krishnamurti and Vivekananda (teachings), or perhaps between Krishnamurti and Sathya Sai Baba (teachings), or perhaps between Sathya Sai Baba and Leadbeater (teachings), or perhaps between Annie Besant and Ghandi (teachings, and political emphasis) etc., etc - right?.....Or perhaps you were rerferring to something else, something else than an orthodoxy point of view of what theosophy is?

                What is the theosophical metaphysics Krishnamurti talked and who is to decide?
                Is deliberate promulgation of and allowing emotional (blind?) worship of ones person to be called theosophical metaphysics?

                I merely ask a few questions so to if possible learn something.


                M. Sufilight


                Den 09-12-2013 09:24, Sampsa Kuukasjärvi skrev:
                 
                In the latest Indian Theososophist, December 2013, there is a writing called "Radha Burnier: Reminiscences" by her relative, Prof. P. Krishna. You can download the issue here: http://theosophy-india.org/magazine/.

                He tells how he hesitated to write about J. Krishnamurti to The Theosophist in the beginning of the 1990s, but Radha asked him to do it saying: "We love controversies!". This statement of his is interesting: "Controversies are good things because they force us to take a fresh look at our own thinking and conclusions. It is only dogmatic minds that object to controversy; a mind that is in quest of truth welcomes it since it provokes inquiry and therefore promotes learning."

                I agree with Radha that there is no real division between Theosophy and Krishnamurti. It seems that if Krishnamurti had talked Theosophical metaphysics, Theosophists and other people would not have noticed his message, which pointed to a fresh look at Theosophy. I think we can compare this to HPB and Christianity: if she, in her time, had talked much about Christian doctrines, even esoterically, many people would not have noticed her new universal message, as independent on religions. So I think that via Krishnamurti's teachings Radha did a very remarkable job in working against dogmatism in the Adyar TS.

                Sampsa



                2013/11/10 .:.MKR777 <mkr777@...>
                 
                Tributes were paid to Mrs. Radha Burnier at a memorial meeting on Saturday in Adyar. Here is a newspaper report.


              • .:.MKR777
                We have seen some theosophical leaders trying to impose some dogmatic views. Many theosophists are of the opinion that Krishnamurti did save the TS from
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 9, 2013
                  We have seen some theosophical leaders trying to impose some dogmatic views. Many theosophists are of the opinion that Krishnamurti did save the TS from dogmatism, even though there are many others who may not agree. But on the question of First Object, Krishnamurti's views are no different from the early leaders. 

                  MKR

                  <Sampsa wrote>
                  So I think that via Krishnamurti's teachings Radha did a very remarkable job in working against dogmatism in the Adyar TS.






                • Morten Nymann Olesen
                  A few views... Sorry if I voice some concern here. MKR wrote: Krishnamurti s views are no different from the early leaders Oh....I, see. Is this a general
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 10, 2013
                    A few views...

                    Sorry if I voice some concern here.

                    MKR wrote:
                    "Krishnamurti's views are no different from the early leaders"


                    Oh....I, see.
                    Is this a general view in the Theosophical Society?

                    I always thought that J. Krishnamurti were against organizations (also theosophical-like ones) calling them something the devil was behind?
                    So he really, during the 1920'ties and also after the year 1929, supported wholeheartedly the attempt to establish a nucleus of a Universal Brotherhood - like the first object the Theosophical Society says?

                    _________
                    Krishnamurti said in 1929 famous speech:
                    “We are going to discuss this morning the dissolution of the Order of the Star. Many people will be delighted, and others will be rather sad. It is a question neither for rejoicing nor for sadness, because it is inevitable, as I am going to explain. “You may remember the story of how the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, “What did that man pick up?” “He picked up a piece of Truth,” said the devil. “That is a very bad business for you, then,” said his friend. “Oh, not at all,” the devil replied, “I am going to let him organize it."......." If you first understand that, then you will see how impossible it is to organize a belief. A belief is purely an individual matter, and you cannot and must not organize it. If you do, it becomes dead, crystallized; it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed on others."......." I do not want to belong to any organization of a spiritual kind, please understand this. "
                    ...and more of the same.
                    http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/about-krishnamurti/dissolution-speech.php

                    And then he dissolved the emotional worship organization established and supported by Annie Besant and Leadbeater - and then he also left the Theosophical Soceity for decades. And the building for the Site of the Star Headquarters to be erected (on "solid" rock) on the compound of the Theosophical Society HQ never became to anything, only the foundation-stone and then everything stopped. (See the map from year 1925 here: http://www.global-theosophy.net/theosophical_society_map_1_large_2.php )
                    And the next volumes of the magazine Theosophist - that year in 1929 - were strangely enough without any books by J. Krihsnamurti in their advertising pages. The previous ones were filled with his name. Books are supported until some persons find it important not to do so. So it seems.

                    Ethical, Freedom of speech is not unimportant.
                    If the leaders is not allowed to be given well meant criticism, where will we then end up?
                    (See "LITERARY JOTTINGS ON CRITICISM, AUTHORITIES, AND OTHER MATTERS. - BY AN UNPOPULAR PHILOSOPHER" by Blavatsky saying: "It is precisely because Theosophists would themselves be judged and court impartial criticism, that they begin by rendering that service to their fellow-men. Mutual criticism is a most healthy policy, and helps to establish final and definite rules in life—practical, not merely theoretical."......."Criticism is the sole salvation from intellectual stagnation." ---- and more ---, BCW, Vol. XIII, p. 243-247 -  http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v13/ph_008.htm )

                    But all the above are of course merely my views and questions.



                    M. Sufilight

                    Den 10-12-2013 02:18, .:.MKR777 skrev:
                     
                    We have seen some theosophical leaders trying to impose some dogmatic views. Many theosophists are of the opinion that Krishnamurti did save the TS from dogmatism, even though there are many others who may not agree. But on the question of First Object, Krishnamurti's views are no different from the early leaders. 

                    MKR

                    <Sampsa wrote>
                    So I think that via Krishnamurti's teachings Radha did a very remarkable job in working against dogmatism in the Adyar TS.







                  • .:.MKR777
                    One of the little known facts about Radhaji is that was financially independent and did not ever take a single penny from TS during her entire life. On the
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 13, 2013
                      One of the little known facts about Radhaji is that was financially independent and did not ever take a single penny from TS during her entire life. On the other hand, the talk in the grapevine is that she periodically donated large sums of money to TS anonymously. In addition, she personally helped all workers at Adyar whenever they needed help financially or otherwise.

                      Years ago, there was discussion on theos-l/theos-talk implying that she financially benefited from TS. In response to it, she wrote to me confirming that she never took any money from TS.

                      It is important that this fact be known to the members who are unaware of it. On the other hand, it is well known that some of the heads of National Sections have taken salary/money or other financial benefit from the TS. While there is nothing wrong about it, the question is transparency. Usually this fact is not made known to the members.

                      Fortunately, in the USA, some years ago, the legislators required disclosure of any compensation paid to the heads of non profit organizations and TS in America falls into this category.This info is disclosed in the annual tax Return Form 990 filed with the Internal Revenue Service. This form is in public domain. Also, legislators required easy access to the public to this Return because they did not want the organizations try foot dragging tactics or put stumbling blocks when public wants to access them.

                      We have talked about transparency in the operation of TS, which is badly needed, since it is a democratic organization and is the best protection to prevent misguided but harmful moves by movers and shakers. Let us not forget the truth of the warning that Master KH gave to Annie Besant in 1900, but was hidden from the members till 1980s.



                      MKR


                      On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:24 AM, Sampsa Kuukasjärvi <sampsa.kuukasjarvi@...> wrote:
                       

                      In the latest Indian Theososophist, December 2013, there is a writing called "Radha Burnier: Reminiscences" by her relative, Prof. P. Krishna. You can download the issue here: http://theosophy-india.org/magazine/.

                      He tells how he hesitated to write about J. Krishnamurti to The Theosophist in the beginning of the 1990s, but Radha asked him to do it saying: "We love controversies!". This statement of his is interesting: "Controversies are good things because they force us to take a fresh look at our own thinking and conclusions. It is only dogmatic minds that object to controversy; a mind that is in quest of truth welcomes it since it provokes inquiry and therefore promotes learning."

                      I agree with Radha that there is no real division between Theosophy and Krishnamurti. It seems that if Krishnamurti had talked Theosophical metaphysics, Theosophists and other people would not have noticed his message, which pointed to a fresh look at Theosophy. I think we can compare this to HPB and Christianity: if she, in her time, had talked much about Christian doctrines, even esoterically, many people would not have noticed her new universal message, as independent on religions. So I think that via Krishnamurti's teachings Radha did a very remarkable job in working against dogmatism in the Adyar TS.

                      Sampsa



                      2013/11/10 .:.MKR777 <mkr777@...>

                       

                      Tributes were paid to Mrs. Radha Burnier at a memorial meeting on Saturday in Adyar. Here is a newspaper report.



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