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Homo Erectus

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  • Mark Jaqua
    Blavatsky says that the apes came from interbreeding between human stock and a semi-human creature that no longer exist - the sin of the mindless because the
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 19, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Blavatsky says that the apes came from interbreeding between human
      stock and a semi-human creature that no longer exist - the "sin of the
      mindless" because the manasaputras refused to incarnate in this early
      human stock, and thus they had no judgement as to natural morals, etc.
      (sort of like some of modern 5th race humans...yuk yuk) I suppose some
      of these ape-men are possibly not "human." She says, at least a
      _portion_ of human stock became truly "human" about 18 million years
      ago, with the incarnation of their higher selves in the bodies. 'Also
      says that the human skeletal structure is _older_ in evolutionary
      design and development in some respects than the apes, thus lending
      evidence that human body stock is older than the apes. I wouldn't
      doubt Pratt has some worthwhile information online on all this.
      - jake j.


      ----------------
      >1b. Re: Extinct Animals and The Limbo Archive
      Posted by: "Cass Silva" silva_cass@...
      <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=silva_cass@...> silva_cass
      Date: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:26 pm ((PDT))

      >So is this our 3rd Root Race ancestor?
      Cass


      >________________________________
      > From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@...
      <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=global-theosophy@...>>
      >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=theos-

      talk@yahoogroups.com>
      >Sent: Saturday, 19 October 2013 5:23 AM
      >Subject: Re: theos-talk Re: Extinct Animals and The Limbo Archive
      >
      >
      >Dear Jake and all readers
      >
      >My views are:
      >
      >I just saw the below in the
      Guardian from yeasterday...
      >
      >Skull of Homo erectus throws story of human evolution into
      disarray
      >A haul of fossils found in Georgia suggests that half a dozen species

      of
      early human ancestor were actually all Homo erectus.
      >(October, 17th, 2013)
      >http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/oct/17/skull-homo-erectus-

      human-evolution
      <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com

      %2Fscience%2F2013%2Foct%2F17%2Fskull-homo-erectus-human-

      evolution&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGLY1SH_HaM6Pex038M1Is4R0qpHQ>
      >
      >
      >
      >See also Wikipedia on Homo Erectus:
      >"Homo
      erectus georgicus (Georgian: ქართველი ადამიანი) is the subspecies name
      sometimes
      used to describe fossil skulls and jaws found in Dmanisi, Georgia.

      Although
      first proposed as a separate species, it is now classified within H.
      erectus.[22][23][24] A partial skeleton was discovered in 2001. The
      fossils are
      about 1.8 million years old. The remains were first discovered in 1991

      by
      Georgian scientist, David Lordkipanidze, accompanied by an

      international
      team
      that unearthed the remains. There have been many proposed explanations
      of the
      dispersion of H. erectus georgicus.[25] Implements and animal bones

      were
      found
      alongside the ancient human remains.
      >
      >At first, scientists thought they had found
      mandibles and skulls belonging to Homo ergaster, but size differences
      led them
      to name a new species, Homo georgicus, which was posited as a

      descendant
      of Homo
      habilis and ancestor of Asian Homo erectus. This classification was not
      upheld,
      and the fossil is now considered a divergent subgroup of Homo erectus,
      sometimes
      called Homo erectus georgicus.[26][27][28][29]
      >Location of Dmanisi discovery,
      Georgia
      >
      >At around 600 cubic centimetres (37 cu in) brain
      volume, the skull D2700 is dated to 1.77 million years old and in good
      condition, offering insights in comparison to the modern human cranial
      morphology. At the time of discovery the cranium was the smallest and

      most
      primitive Hominina skull ever discovered outside of Africa. However, in
      2003 a
      significantly smaller brained hominid was found on the isle of Flores,

      H.
      erectus floresiensis. Homo erectus georgicus exhibits strong sexual
      dimorphism
      with males being significantly larger than females."
      >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus
      <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki

      %2FHomo_erectus&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNHezm0g2lannFZoIbPguIC4mCPayg>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >M. Sufilight
      -------------------
    • Cass Silva
      Cheers - they obviously are not old enough to be our ancestors ... On Sun, 20/10/13, Mark Jaqua wrote: Subject: theos-talk Homo Erectus
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 19, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Cheers - they obviously are not old enough to be our ancestors
        --------------------------------------------
        On Sun, 20/10/13, Mark Jaqua <markrjaqua@...> wrote:

        Subject: theos-talk Homo Erectus
        To: "theos-talk" <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
        Received: Sunday, 20 October, 2013, 2:10 AM
















         









        Blavatsky says that the apes came from
        interbreeding between human

        stock and a semi-human creature that no longer exist - the
        "sin of the

        mindless" because the manasaputras refused to incarnate
        in this early

        human stock, and thus they had no judgement as to natural
        morals, etc.

        (sort of like some of modern 5th race humans...yuk yuk) I
        suppose some

        of these ape-men are possibly not "human." She
        says, at least a

        _portion_ of human stock became truly "human"
        about 18 million years

        ago, with the incarnation of their higher selves in the
        bodies. 'Also

        says that the human skeletal structure is _older_ in
        evolutionary

        design and development in some respects than the apes, thus
        lending

        evidence that human body stock is older than the apes. I
        wouldn't

        doubt Pratt has some worthwhile information online on all
        this.

        - jake j.



        ----------------

        >1b. Re: Extinct Animals and The Limbo Archive

        Posted by: "Cass Silva" silva_cass@...

        <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=silva_cass@...> silva_cass

        Date: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:26 pm ((PDT))



        >So is this our 3rd Root Race ancestor?

        Cass



        >________________________________

        > From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@...

        <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=global-theosophy@...>>

        >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
        <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=theos-



        talk@yahoogroups.com>

        >Sent: Saturday, 19 October 2013 5:23 AM

        >Subject: Re: theos-talk Re: Extinct Animals and The
        Limbo Archive

        >

        >

        >Dear Jake and all readers

        >

        >My views are:

        >

        >I just saw the below in the

        Guardian from yeasterday...

        >

        >Skull of Homo erectus throws story of human evolution
        into

        disarray

        >A haul of fossils found in Georgia suggests that half a
        dozen species



        of

        early human ancestor were actually all Homo erectus.

        >(October, 17th, 2013)

        >http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/oct/17/skull-homo-erectus-



        human-evolution

        <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com



        %2Fscience%2F2013%2Foct%2F17%2Fskull-homo-erectus-human-



        evolution&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGLY1SH_HaM6Pex038M1Is4R0qpHQ>

        >

        >

        >

        >See also Wikipedia on Homo Erectus:

        >"Homo

        erectus georgicus (Georgian: ქართველი
        ადამიანი) is the subspecies name

        sometimes

        used to describe fossil skulls and jaws found in Dmanisi,
        Georgia.



        Although

        first proposed as a separate species, it is now classified
        within H.

        erectus.[22][23][24] A partial skeleton was discovered in
        2001. The

        fossils are

        about 1.8 million years old. The remains were first
        discovered in 1991



        by

        Georgian scientist, David Lordkipanidze, accompanied by an



        international

        team

        that unearthed the remains. There have been many proposed
        explanations

        of the

        dispersion of H. erectus georgicus.[25] Implements and
        animal bones



        were

        found

        alongside the ancient human remains.

        >

        >At first, scientists thought they had found

        mandibles and skulls belonging to Homo ergaster, but size
        differences

        led them

        to name a new species, Homo georgicus, which was posited as
        a



        descendant

        of Homo

        habilis and ancestor of Asian Homo erectus. This
        classification was not

        upheld,

        and the fossil is now considered a divergent subgroup of
        Homo erectus,

        sometimes

        called Homo erectus georgicus.[26][27][28][29]

        >Location of Dmanisi discovery,

        Georgia

        >

        >At around 600 cubic centimetres (37 cu in) brain

        volume, the skull D2700 is dated to 1.77 million years old
        and in good

        condition, offering insights in comparison to the modern
        human cranial

        morphology. At the time of discovery the cranium was the
        smallest and



        most

        primitive Hominina skull ever discovered outside of Africa.
        However, in

        2003 a

        significantly smaller brained hominid was found on the isle
        of Flores,



        H.

        erectus floresiensis. Homo erectus georgicus exhibits strong
        sexual

        dimorphism

        with males being significantly larger than females."

        >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus

        <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki



        %2FHomo_erectus&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNHezm0g2lannFZoIbPguIC4mCPayg>

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >M. Sufilight

        -------------------
      • Augoeides-222@...
        Cass, All,     Well the cranial capacity of only 650 cubic cm is less than half of the cranial capacity of our current human skull, that does restrict quite
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 20, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Cass, All,
              Well the cranial capacity of only 650 cubic cm is less than half of the cranial capacity of our current human skull, that does restrict quite a few attributes.
              From time to time the topic of the model body template has arose based upon Madame Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine and the seven economy of being. Now in our current present moment of time there are new contribution every Theosophist should become aware of. Here are several articles that reveal profound knowledge now being established by current science.
           
               Mankind now stands on the doorsill of "Lift of Mind" for all Mankind. Human disease will be abated, illness will be abated, life extension will be greatly extended nearing immortality.. Now we are coming to understand the underlying "substrate" that monitors, models, geometrizes, and perpetuates our human form itself and will very soon acquire undreamed abilities to effect regeneration of organs, reversion of organ destruction. The Electro- magnetic Substrate of the Non-local Quantum Matrix Realm is almost firmly in Mankind's grasp. We as Mankind will step into the next great stage, knowing how to become the virtual Creators of Reality and Form. Madame Blavatsky predicted the stages that will advent as is now happening. Just my personal humble "prophecy".
           
           
          The Spectroscopy of Biophotons in non-local Genetic Regulation - Peter Gariaev
           
           
          Physics of Life - Peter Gariaev
           
           
          Wave Probabilistic  and Linguistic Representations of Cancer - Peter Gariaev
           
           
          Wave Genetics Response - Peter Gariaev
           
           
          Topological Geometrodynamics  inspired Quantum Model of Living Matter - Matti Pitkanen
           
          SPIE Proceeding Holographic associated memory and information transmission of solitary waves in biological Systems
           
           
          The Strangeness of Water and Homeopathic Memory - by Dr. Mae Wan Ho
           
           
          The Ongoing Process of Creation --- Robert Neil Boyd Ph.D
           
           
           Re-incarnational - ontogenesis - Juri  N. Cherednichenko
           
           
          Here is a link for the search term "DNA-wave Biocomputer " a paper Peter Gariaev and his research team at the Academy of Sience in Moscow Russia published more that a decade ago. I strongly urge readers to open a link as seen for this title and read to contents of "DNA-wave Biocomputer" it is foundational to his later papers:
           
          DNA-wave Biocomputer - Gariaev Google Search
           
           
          This is all heavy reading and unknown territory to many here but please tough it out and read what you can and come back later to read more until you finish the link articles, this should be read with Secret Doctrine Cosmology and Anthropogenesis in mind to cross reference and realte to as you penetrate the contents. You will see what Blavatsky predicted is now in process.
           
          John
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           

          From: "Cass Silva" <silva_cass@...>
          To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 5:59:21 PM
          Subject: Re: theos-talk Homo Erectus

           

          Cheers - they obviously are not old enough to be our ancestors
          --------------------------------------------

          On Sun, 20/10/13, Mark Jaqua <markrjaqua@...> wrote:


          Subject: theos-talk Homo Erectus
          To: "theos-talk" <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
          Received: Sunday, 20 October, 2013, 2:10 AM

















           










          Blavatsky says that the apes came from
          interbreeding between human


          stock and a semi-human creature that no longer exist - the
          "sin of the


          mindless" because the manasaputras refused to incarnate
          in this early


          human stock, and thus they had no judgement as to natural
          morals, etc.


          (sort of like some of modern 5th race humans...yuk yuk) I
          suppose some


          of these ape-men are possibly not "human." She
          says, at least a


          _portion_ of human stock became truly "human"
          about 18 million years


          ago, with the incarnation of their higher selves in the
          bodies. 'Also


          says that the human skeletal structure is _older_ in
          evolutionary


          design and development in some respects than the apes, thus
          lending


          evidence that human body stock is older than the apes. I
          wouldn't


          doubt Pratt has some worthwhile information online on all
          this.


          - jake j.




          ----------------


          >1b. Re: Extinct Animals and The Limbo Archive


          Posted by: "Cass Silva" silva_cass@...


          <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=silva_cass@...> silva_cass


          Date: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:26 pm ((PDT))




          >So is this our 3rd Root Race ancestor?


          Cass




          >________________________________


          > From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@...


          <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=global-theosophy@...>>


          >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
          <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=theos-




          talk@yahoogroups.com>


          >Sent: Saturday, 19 October 2013 5:23 AM


          >Subject: Re: theos-talk Re: Extinct Animals and The
          Limbo Archive


          >


          >


          >Dear Jake and all readers


          >


          >My views are:


          >


          >I just saw the below in the


          Guardian from yeasterday...


          >


          >Skull of Homo erectus throws story of human evolution
          into


          disarray


          >A haul of fossils found in Georgia suggests that half a
          dozen species




          of


          early human ancestor were actually all Homo erectus.


          >(October, 17th, 2013)


          >http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/oct/17/skull-homo-erectus-




          human-evolution


          <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com




          %2Fscience%2F2013%2Foct%2F17%2Fskull-homo-erectus-human-




          evolution&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGLY1SH_HaM6Pex038M1Is4R0qpHQ>


          >


          >


          >


          >See also Wikipedia on Homo Erectus:


          >"Homo


          erectus georgicus (Georgian: ქართველი
          ადამიანი) is the subspecies name


          sometimes


          used to describe fossil skulls and jaws found in Dmanisi,
          Georgia.




          Although


          first proposed as a separate species, it is now classified
          within H.


          erectus.[22][23][24] A partial skeleton was discovered in
          2001. The


          fossils are


          about 1.8 million years old. The remains were first
          discovered in 1991




          by


          Georgian scientist, David Lordkipanidze, accompanied by an




          international


          team


          that unearthed the remains. There have been many proposed
          explanations


          of the


          dispersion of H. erectus georgicus.[25] Implements and
          animal bones




          were


          found


          alongside the ancient human remains.


          >


          >At first, scientists thought they had found


          mandibles and skulls belonging to Homo ergaster, but size
          differences


          led them


          to name a new species, Homo georgicus, which was posited as
          a




          descendant


          of Homo


          habilis and ancestor of Asian Homo erectus. This
          classification was not


          upheld,


          and the fossil is now considered a divergent subgroup of
          Homo erectus,


          sometimes


          called Homo erectus georgicus.[26][27][28][29]


          >Location of Dmanisi discovery,


          Georgia


          >


          >At around 600 cubic centimetres (37 cu in) brain


          volume, the skull D2700 is dated to 1.77 million years old
          and in good


          condition, offering insights in comparison to the modern
          human cranial


          morphology. At the time of discovery the cranium was the
          smallest and




          most


          primitive Hominina skull ever discovered outside of Africa.
          However, in


          2003 a


          significantly smaller brained hominid was found on the isle
          of Flores,




          H.


          erectus floresiensis. Homo erectus georgicus exhibits strong
          sexual


          dimorphism


          with males being significantly larger than females."


          >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus


          <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki




          %2FHomo_erectus&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNHezm0g2lannFZoIbPguIC4mCPayg>


          >


          >


          >


          >


          >M. Sufilight


          -------------------

























        • Cass Silva
          This is all a bit too scientific for me, but thanks for your efforts Cass ... On Mon, 21/10/13, Augoeides-222@comcast.net wrote:
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 21, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            This is all a bit too scientific for me, but thanks for your efforts
            Cass
            --------------------------------------------
            On Mon, 21/10/13, Augoeides-222@... <Augoeides-222@...> wrote:

            Subject: Re: theos-talk Homo Erectus
            To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
            Received: Monday, 21 October, 2013, 10:25 AM
















             









            Cass,
            All,

                Well the cranial capacity of only
            650 cubic cm is less than half of the cranial capacity of
            our current human skull, that does restrict quite a few
            attributes.
                From time to time the topic of the
            model body template has arose based upon Madame
            Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine and the seven economy of
            being. Now in our current present moment of time there are
            new contribution every Theosophist should become aware of.
            Here are several articles that reveal profound knowledge now
            being established by current science.
             
                 Mankind now stands on the
            doorsill of "Lift of Mind" for all Mankind. Human
            disease will be abated, illness will be abated, life
            extension will be greatly extended nearing immortality.. Now
            we are coming to understand the underlying
            "substrate" that monitors, models, geometrizes,
            and perpetuates our human form itself and will very soon
            acquire undreamed abilities to effect regeneration of
            organs, reversion of organ destruction. The Electro-
            magnetic Substrate of the Non-local Quantum Matrix Realm
            is almost firmly in Mankind's grasp. We as
            Mankind will step into the next great stage, knowing
            how to become the virtual Creators of Reality and Form.
            Madame Blavatsky predicted the stages that will advent as is
            now happening. Just my personal humble
            "prophecy".
             
             
            The Spectroscopy of Biophotons in non-local Genetic
            Regulation - Peter Gariaev
             
            >>>http://www.emergentmind.org/gariaevI3.htm<<<
             
            Physics of Life - Peter Gariaev
             
            >>>http://worldwithinworlds.yolasite.com/physicsoflife.php<<<
             
            Wave Probabilistic  and Linguistic Representations
            of Cancer - Peter Gariaev
             
            >>>http://www.emergentmind.org/gariaevI2.htm<<<
             
            Wave Genetics Response - Peter Gariaev
             
            >>>http://www.yogaofabraham.com/the-yoga-of-abraham/yoga-and-life-science/88-wave-genetics.pdf<<<
             
            Topological Geometrodynamics  inspired
            Quantum Model of Living Matter - Matti Pitkanen
             
            SPIE Proceeding Holographic associated memory and
            information transmission of solitary waves in biological
            Systems
             
            >>>http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=1014106<<<
             
            The Strangeness of Water and Homeopathic Memory - by
            Dr. Mae Wan Ho
             
            >>>http://www.i-sis.org.uk/water3.php<<<
             
            The Ongoing Process of Creation --- Robert Neil Boyd
            Ph.D
             
            >>>http://worldwithinworlds.yolasite.com/ongoingprocessofcreation.php<<<
             
             Re-incarnational - ontogenesis - Juri  N.
            Cherednichenko
             
            >>>http://www.sinor.ru/~che/reincarnation.htm#J.N.
            Cherednichenko<<<
             
            Here is a link for the search term "DNA-wave
            Biocomputer " a paper Peter Gariaev and his
            research team at the Academy of Sience in Moscow Russia
            published more that a decade ago. I strongly urge readers to
            open a link as seen for this title and read to contents of
            "DNA-wave Biocomputer" it is foundational to his
            later papers:
             
            DNA-wave Biocomputer - Gariaev Google Search
             
            >>>https://www.google.com/#q=the+dna-wave+biocomputer+gariaev<<<
             
            This is all heavy reading and unknown territory to many
            here but please tough it out and read what you can and come
            back later to read more until you finish the link articles,
            this should be read with Secret Doctrine Cosmology and
            Anthropogenesis in mind to cross reference and realte to as
            you penetrate the contents. You will see what Blavatsky
            predicted is now in process.
             
            John
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             


            From:
            "Cass Silva" <silva_cass@...>
            To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 5:59:21 PM
            Subject: Re: theos-talk Homo Erectus


             



            Cheers - they obviously are not old enough to be our
            ancestors
            --------------------------------------------
            On Sun, 20/10/13, Mark Jaqua <markrjaqua@...>
            wrote:



            Subject: theos-talk Homo Erectus
            To: "theos-talk"
            <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
            Received: Sunday, 20 October, 2013, 2:10 AM
































             



















            Blavatsky says that the apes came from
            interbreeding between human



            stock and a semi-human creature that no longer exist -
            the
            "sin of the



            mindless" because the manasaputras refused to
            incarnate
            in this early



            human stock, and thus they had no judgement as to
            natural
            morals, etc.



            (sort of like some of modern 5th race humans...yuk yuk)
            I
            suppose some



            of these ape-men are possibly not "human." She
            says, at least a



            _portion_ of human stock became truly "human"
            about 18 million years



            ago, with the incarnation of their higher selves in the
            bodies. 'Also



            says that the human skeletal structure is _older_ in
            evolutionary



            design and development in some respects than the apes,
            thus
            lending



            evidence that human body stock is older than the apes. I
            wouldn't



            doubt Pratt has some worthwhile information online on
            all
            this.



            - jake j.







            ----------------



            >1b. Re: Extinct Animals and The Limbo Archive



            Posted by: "Cass Silva" silva_cass@...



            <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=silva_cass@...>
            silva_cass



            Date: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:26 pm ((PDT))







            >So is this our 3rd Root Race ancestor?



            Cass







            >________________________________



            > From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@...



            <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=global-theosophy@...>>



            >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
            <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=theos-







            talk@yahoogroups.com>



            >Sent: Saturday, 19 October 2013 5:23 AM



            >Subject: Re: theos-talk Re: Extinct Animals and The
            Limbo Archive



            >



            >



            >Dear Jake and all readers



            >



            >My views are:



            >



            >I just saw the below in the



            Guardian from yeasterday...



            >



            >Skull of Homo erectus throws story of human
            evolution
            into



            disarray



            >A haul of fossils found in Georgia suggests that half
            a
            dozen species







            of



            early human ancestor were actually all Homo erectus.



            >(October, 17th, 2013)



            >http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/oct/17/skull-homo-erectus-







            human-evolution



            <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com







            %2Fscience%2F2013%2Foct%2F17%2Fskull-homo-erectus-human-







            evolution&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGLY1SH_HaM6Pex038M1Is4R0qpHQ>



            >



            >



            >



            >See also Wikipedia on Homo Erectus:



            >"Homo



            erectus georgicus (Georgian: ქართველი
            ადამიანი) is the subspecies name



            sometimes



            used to describe fossil skulls and jaws found in
            Dmanisi,
            Georgia.







            Although



            first proposed as a separate species, it is now
            classified
            within H.



            erectus.[22][23][24] A partial skeleton was discovered
            in
            2001. The



            fossils are



            about 1.8 million years old. The remains were first
            discovered in 1991







            by



            Georgian scientist, David Lordkipanidze, accompanied by
            an







            international



            team



            that unearthed the remains. There have been many
            proposed
            explanations



            of the



            dispersion of H. erectus georgicus.[25] Implements and
            animal bones







            were



            found



            alongside the ancient human remains.



            >



            >At first, scientists thought they had found



            mandibles and skulls belonging to Homo ergaster, but
            size
            differences



            led them



            to name a new species, Homo georgicus, which was posited
            as
            a







            descendant



            of Homo



            habilis and ancestor of Asian Homo erectus. This
            classification was not



            upheld,



            and the fossil is now considered a divergent subgroup of
            Homo erectus,



            sometimes



            called Homo erectus georgicus.[26][27][28][29]



            >Location of Dmanisi discovery,



            Georgia



            >



            >At around 600 cubic centimetres (37 cu in) brain



            volume, the skull D2700 is dated to 1.77 million years
            old
            and in good



            condition, offering insights in comparison to the modern
            human cranial



            morphology. At the time of discovery the cranium was the
            smallest and







            most



            primitive Hominina skull ever discovered outside of
            Africa.
            However, in



            2003 a



            significantly smaller brained hominid was found on the
            isle
            of Flores,







            H.



            erectus floresiensis. Homo erectus georgicus exhibits
            strong
            sexual



            dimorphism



            with males being significantly larger than
            females."



            >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus



            <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki







            %2FHomo_erectus&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNHezm0g2lannFZoIbPguIC4mCPayg>



            >



            >



            >



            >



            >M. Sufilight



            -------------------
          • Mark Jaqua
            I think where much of what modern science, especially biology, et. al. and genetic research is going, Blavatsky would probably call black magic. I wrote an
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 23, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              I think where much of what modern science, especially biology,
              et. al. and genetic research is going, Blavatsky would probably call
              "black magic." I wrote an article about 35 years ago - "Doomsday,
              Atlantis and Genetic Research" (TAT Journal, spring, 1979 - probably
              still online) which I skimmed over again, and I can't believe that I
              still think it is pretty much right-on. (please pardon the preening
              feathers) Here's a quote on Blavatsky:

              "Madame Blavatsky, in The Secret Doctrine (published in 1888), has
              some intriguing things to say about the Atlanteans. She claims that
              they "breeded with animals" which brought about biological
              monstrosities and the wrath of Nature. Since impregnation of animals
              by men seems biologically impossible, this myth could be an allegory
              concerning recombinant DNA experiments by the Atlanteans. In the
              ancient Tibetan manuscript, The Stanzas of Dzyan, Blavatsky quotes a
              reference to the Atlanteans: "Having fallen down in godliness they
              mixed with animal races... Many acquired Divine, more - UNLAWFUL
              knowledge, and followed willingly the LEFT PATH." (15) If you can
              interpret the arcane language, "mixing with animals" could refer to
              genetic experiments, and the "LEFT PATH" would be interpreted as the
              "path" of utilitarian and material values. In another place in The
              Secret Doctrine Blavatsky relates an Indian myth about the lost land
              of "Mu" where "The great lords each had their speaking beast... " -
              The Secret Doctrine, Volume II, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky,
              Theosophical University Press, Pasadena, California, p. 331.

              "Fohat" some years back had an article on the occult aspects of
              organ transplants, which I still remember, so it must have been pretty
              good.

              Part of what John says is probably true, but I think he is way,
              way, way over-optimistic. All this biological research on the
              _physical level_ is bound to end with infinite divisibility - just as
              Blavatsky said the physical atom was "infinitely divisible" which
              seems to be proving to be so. It all leads to tremendous hubris.

              Gariaev does seem to have an intuition of the "astral patterns"
              for evolution Blavatsky refers to where he says:

              ".....that there is something beyond the DNA, something which informs
              the DNA factory how to make its constructions." - Peter Gariaev

              I gave up trying to comprehend this science stuff 20 years
              ago and believe it is a dead end always - spiritually speaking, and it
              makes me dispair. But for those who can get something out of it -
              great for them, and theosophy needs the appropriate supportive data.

              - jake j.



              ------------------

              >2a. Re: Homo Erectus
              Posted by: "Cass Silva" silva_cass@...
              <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=silva_cass@...> silva_cass
              Date: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:22 pm ((PDT))

              >This is all a bit too scientific for me, but thanks for your efforts
              Cass
              --------------------------------------------

              >On Mon, 21/10/13, Augoeides-222@...
              wrote:

              >Subject: Re: theos-talk Homo Erectus
              To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
              Received: Monday, 21 October, 2013, 10:25 AM

              >Cass, All,

              > Well the cranial capacity of only
              650 cubic cm is less than half of the cranial capacity of
              our current human skull, that does restrict quite a few
              attributes.
              > From time to time the topic of the
              model body template has arose based upon Madame
              Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine and the seven economy of
              being. Now in our current present moment of time there are
              new contribution every Theosophist should become aware of.
              Here are several articles that reveal profound knowledge now
              being established by current science.

              > Mankind now stands on the doorsill of "Lift of Mind" for all
              Mankind. Human
              disease will be abated, illness will be abated, life
              extension will be greatly extended nearing immortality.. Now
              we are coming to understand the underlying
              "substrate" that monitors, models, geometrizes,
              and perpetuates our human form itself and will very soon
              acquire undreamed abilities to effect regeneration of
              organs, reversion of organ destruction. The Electro-
              magnetic Substrate of the Non-local Quantum Matrix Realm
              is almost firmly in Mankind's grasp. We as
              Mankind will step into the next great stage, knowing
              how to become the virtual Creators of Reality and Form.
              Madame Blavatsky predicted the stages that will advent as is
              now happening. Just my personal humble "prophecy".


              >The Spectroscopy of Biophotons in non-local Genetic
              Regulation - Peter Gariaev

              >>>http://www.emergentmind.org/gariaevI3.htm
              <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.emergentmind.org%2FgariaevI3.htm&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEqSu5sOC_7Pk9bwHxFw7QPV10w7g><<<

              Physics of Life - Peter Gariaev

              >>>http://worldwithinworlds.yolasite.com/physicsoflife.php
              <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fworldwithinworlds.yolasite.com%2Fphysicsoflife.php&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFemoPZgfEn1-P4BqW2ssAJIcBBjg><<<

              Wave Probabilistic and Linguistic Representations
              of Cancer - Peter Gariaev

              >>>http://www.emergentmind.org/gariaevI2.htm
              <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.emergentmind.org%2FgariaevI2.htm&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNG6El7IdavqTSfMyTqswDUzG8yycg><<<

              Wave Genetics Response - Peter Gariaev

              >>>http://www.yogaofabraham.com/the-yoga-of-abraham/yoga-and-life-science/88-wave-genetics.pdf
              <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yogaofabraham.com%2Fthe-yoga-of-abraham%2Fyoga-and-life-science%2F88-wave-genetics.pdf&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEKpVhXQh3VXBL32JCCFnaMiEkn0g><<<

              Topological Geometrodynamics inspired
              Quantum Model of Living Matter - Matti Pitkanen

              SPIE Proceeding Holographic associated memory and
              information transmission of solitary waves in biological
              Systems

              >>>http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=1014106
              <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fproceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org%2Fproceeding.aspx%3Farticleid%3D1014106&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFsJy6Fltpn1AMKokxuMy5szU4bKg><<<

              The Strangeness of Water and Homeopathic Memory - by
              Dr. Mae Wan Ho

              >>>http://www.i-sis.org.uk/water3.php
              <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.i-sis.org.uk%2Fwater3.php&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGAY3_gqVX1cnvm8_S3H367pEsBWQ><<<

              The Ongoing Process of Creation --- Robert Neil Boyd
              Ph.D

              >>>http://worldwithinworlds.yolasite.com/ongoingprocessofcreation.php
              <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fworldwithinworlds.yolasite.com%2Fongoingprocessofcreation.php&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGnSvdM_s6hxeXQ7x55NbDiwVpOqw><<<

              Re-incarnational - ontogenesis - Juri N.
              Cherednichenko

              >>>http://www.sinor.ru/~che/reincarnation.htm#J.N
              <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sinor.ru%2F~che%2Freincarnation.htm%23J.N&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGZ51QL4umDVsSf3ok2KKoZaydMkA>.
              Cherednichenko<<<

              Here is a link for the search term "DNA-wave
              Biocomputer " a paper Peter Gariaev and his
              research team at the Academy of Sience in Moscow Russia
              published more that a decade ago. I strongly urge readers to
              open a link as seen for this title and read to contents of
              "DNA-wave Biocomputer" it is foundational to his
              later papers:

              DNA-wave Biocomputer - Gariaev Google Search

              >>>https://www.google.com/#q=the+dna-wave+biocomputer+gariaev
              <https://www.google.com/#q=the+dna-wave+biocomputer+gariaev><<<

              >This is all heavy reading and unknown territory to many
              here but please tough it out and read what you can and come
              back later to read more until you finish the link articles,
              this should be read with Secret Doctrine Cosmology and
              Anthropogenesis in mind to cross reference and realte to as
              you penetrate the contents. You will see what Blavatsky predicted is
              now in process.

              >John
              ----------------
            • Cass Silva
              Recently heard that our DNA can be modified and impacted by environmental effects and it is the adaptation that causes the change in our DNA. So our genetic
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 23, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Recently heard that our DNA can be modified and impacted by environmental effects and it is the adaptation that causes the change in our DNA. So our genetic codes are not set in cement.
                Cass

                David Pratt also confirms this
                We are far more than the products of our environment. Our characters and behaviour are not simply the result of our upbringing and education and experiences in this life, because different people can react to similar things in very different ways, depending on their basic dispositions. From the moment we’re born, we begin to display certain distinctive character traits, which are then developed or modified in the course of our lives. But where does our basic character come from? Materialists would probably say that it’s determined by the genes or DNA that we inherit from our parents. DNA is vastly overrated by materialistic scientists. The DNA code certainly regulates the production of proteins, the basic building blocks of our bodies, but it does not explain how these proteins then manage to arrange themselves into tissues and organs and complex living beings, and there is certainly no evidence that physical DNA determines our basic patterns of
                thought and behaviour. Efforts to reduce the wonders of life and mind to random physical and chemical interactions are grossly inadequate and unconvincing.


                --------------------------------------------
                On Thu, 24/10/13, Mark Jaqua <markrjaqua@...> wrote:

                Subject: theos-talk Re: Homo Erectus
                To: "theos-talk" <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
                Received: Thursday, 24 October, 2013, 8:36 AM
















                 









                I think where much of what modern science,
                especially biology,

                et. al. and genetic research is going, Blavatsky would
                probably call

                "black magic." I wrote an article about 35 years
                ago - "Doomsday,

                Atlantis and Genetic Research" (TAT Journal, spring,
                1979 - probably

                still online) which I skimmed over again, and I can't
                believe that I

                still think it is pretty much right-on. (please pardon the
                preening

                feathers) Here's a quote on Blavatsky:



                "Madame Blavatsky, in The Secret Doctrine (published
                in 1888), has

                some intriguing things to say about the Atlanteans. She
                claims that

                they "breeded with animals" which brought about
                biological

                monstrosities and the wrath of Nature. Since impregnation
                of animals

                by men seems biologically impossible, this myth could be an
                allegory

                concerning recombinant DNA experiments by the Atlanteans.
                In the

                ancient Tibetan manuscript, The Stanzas of Dzyan, Blavatsky
                quotes a

                reference to the Atlanteans: "Having fallen down in
                godliness they

                mixed with animal races... Many acquired Divine, more -
                UNLAWFUL

                knowledge, and followed willingly the LEFT PATH." (15)
                If you can

                interpret the arcane language, "mixing with
                animals" could refer to

                genetic experiments, and the "LEFT PATH" would be
                interpreted as the

                "path" of utilitarian and material values. In
                another place in The

                Secret Doctrine Blavatsky relates an Indian myth about the
                lost land

                of "Mu" where "The great lords each had their
                speaking beast... " -

                The Secret Doctrine, Volume II, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky,

                Theosophical University Press, Pasadena, California, p.
                331.



                "Fohat" some years back had an article on the
                occult aspects of

                organ transplants, which I still remember, so it must have
                been pretty

                good.



                Part of what John says is probably true, but I think he is
                way,

                way, way over-optimistic. All this biological research on
                the

                _physical level_ is bound to end with infinite divisibility
                - just as

                Blavatsky said the physical atom was "infinitely
                divisible" which

                seems to be proving to be so. It all leads to tremendous
                hubris.



                Gariaev does seem to have an intuition of the "astral
                patterns"

                for evolution Blavatsky refers to where he says:



                ".....that there is something beyond the DNA, something
                which informs

                the DNA factory how to make its constructions." - Peter
                Gariaev



                I gave up trying to comprehend this science stuff 20 years

                ago and believe it is a dead end always - spiritually
                speaking, and it

                makes me dispair. But for those who can get something out
                of it -

                great for them, and theosophy needs the appropriate
                supportive data.



                - jake j.



                ------------------



                >2a. Re: Homo Erectus

                Posted by: "Cass Silva" silva_cass@...

                <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=silva_cass@...> silva_cass

                Date: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:22 pm ((PDT))



                >This is all a bit too scientific for me, but thanks for
                your efforts

                Cass

                --------------------------------------------



                >On Mon, 21/10/13, Augoeides-222@...

                wrote:



                >Subject: Re: theos-talk Homo Erectus

                To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
                <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>

                Received: Monday, 21 October, 2013, 10:25 AM



                >Cass, All,



                > Well the cranial capacity of only

                650 cubic cm is less than half of the cranial capacity of

                our current human skull, that does restrict quite a few

                attributes.

                > From time to time the topic of the

                model body template has arose based upon Madame

                Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine and the seven economy of

                being. Now in our current present moment of time there are

                new contribution every Theosophist should become aware of.

                Here are several articles that reveal profound knowledge
                now

                being established by current science.



                > Mankind now stands on the doorsill of "Lift of
                Mind" for all

                Mankind. Human

                disease will be abated, illness will be abated, life

                extension will be greatly extended nearing immortality..
                Now

                we are coming to understand the underlying

                "substrate" that monitors, models, geometrizes,

                and perpetuates our human form itself and will very soon

                acquire undreamed abilities to effect regeneration of

                organs, reversion of organ destruction. The Electro-

                magnetic Substrate of the Non-local Quantum Matrix Realm

                is almost firmly in Mankind's grasp. We as

                Mankind will step into the next great stage, knowing

                how to become the virtual Creators of Reality and Form.

                Madame Blavatsky predicted the stages that will advent as
                is

                now happening. Just my personal humble
                "prophecy".



                >The Spectroscopy of Biophotons in non-local Genetic

                Regulation - Peter Gariaev



                >>>http://www.emergentmind.org/gariaevI3.htm

                <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.emergentmind.org%2FgariaevI3.htm&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEqSu5sOC_7Pk9bwHxFw7QPV10w7g><<<



                Physics of Life - Peter Gariaev



                >>>http://worldwithinworlds.yolasite.com/physicsoflife.php

                <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fworldwithinworlds.yolasite.com%2Fphysicsoflife.php&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFemoPZgfEn1-P4BqW2ssAJIcBBjg><<<



                Wave Probabilistic and Linguistic Representations

                of Cancer - Peter Gariaev



                >>>http://www.emergentmind.org/gariaevI2.htm

                <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.emergentmind.org%2FgariaevI2.htm&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNG6El7IdavqTSfMyTqswDUzG8yycg><<<



                Wave Genetics Response - Peter Gariaev



                >>>http://www.yogaofabraham.com/the-yoga-of-abraham/yoga-and-life-science/88-wave-genetics.pdf

                <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yogaofabraham.com%2Fthe-yoga-of-abraham%2Fyoga-and-life-science%2F88-wave-genetics.pdf&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEKpVhXQh3VXBL32JCCFnaMiEkn0g><<<



                Topological Geometrodynamics inspired

                Quantum Model of Living Matter - Matti Pitkanen



                SPIE Proceeding Holographic associated memory and

                information transmission of solitary waves in biological

                Systems



                >>>http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=1014106

                <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fproceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org%2Fproceeding.aspx%3Farticleid%3D1014106&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFsJy6Fltpn1AMKokxuMy5szU4bKg><<<



                The Strangeness of Water and Homeopathic Memory - by

                Dr. Mae Wan Ho



                >>>http://www.i-sis.org.uk/water3.php

                <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.i-sis.org.uk%2Fwater3.php&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGAY3_gqVX1cnvm8_S3H367pEsBWQ><<<



                The Ongoing Process of Creation --- Robert Neil Boyd

                Ph.D



                >>>http://worldwithinworlds.yolasite.com/ongoingprocessofcreation.php

                <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fworldwithinworlds.yolasite.com%2Fongoingprocessofcreation.php&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGnSvdM_s6hxeXQ7x55NbDiwVpOqw><<<



                Re-incarnational - ontogenesis - Juri N.

                Cherednichenko



                >>>http://www.sinor.ru/~che/reincarnation.htm#J.N

                <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sinor.ru%2F~che%2Freincarnation.htm%23J.N&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGZ51QL4umDVsSf3ok2KKoZaydMkA>.

                Cherednichenko<<<



                Here is a link for the search term "DNA-wave

                Biocomputer " a paper Peter Gariaev and his

                research team at the Academy of Sience in Moscow Russia

                published more that a decade ago. I strongly urge readers
                to

                open a link as seen for this title and read to contents of

                "DNA-wave Biocomputer" it is foundational to his

                later papers:



                DNA-wave Biocomputer - Gariaev Google Search



                >>>https://www.google.com/#q=the+dna-wave+biocomputer+gariaev

                <https://www.google.com/#q=the+dna-wave+biocomputer+gariaev><<<



                >This is all heavy reading and unknown territory to many

                here but please tough it out and read what you can and
                come

                back later to read more until you finish the link
                articles,

                this should be read with Secret Doctrine Cosmology and

                Anthropogenesis in mind to cross reference and realte to
                as

                you penetrate the contents. You will see what Blavatsky
                predicted is

                now in process.



                >John

                ----------------
              • Augoeides-222@...
                Jake,  Thanks for you reply and comments. Everyone has the right to an opinion , you have one, that is ok to me. I have also an opinion and reasons why I
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 24, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Jake,
                   Thanks for you reply and comments. Everyone has the right to an opinion , you have one, that is ok to me. I have also an opinion and reasons why I think Biophotonic's are the true future. There is zero black magic to the recognition of the Light, or the earth store house sutra of Mahayana. The ancient Gnostics and Hebrew had doctrine on the "lost sparks of light" , and the Gnostics also even though they did not have cognizance of photons then. What they called Rays, Sparks, scintillations etc are approximate to todays "photons" They also had concept of the "Light Body". The Tibetans and Hindu have the belief in the "Rainbow Body" There are many ways to approach new knowledge better than condemnations without true knowledge or inspection. The Pistis Sophia is an ancient Gnostic work that has some amount of discussion of the Light. The ancient Mandeaens also taught the doctrine of the light. The ancient Caduceus of the Greek and Egyptians were mimicry to the double DNA helix of modern times. They worshiped the Sun as the symbol of life and light. All Science is not evil, even if there are and will be due to human error and conditioned mind offending actions of science that happen it Is not true that all science is evil, left hand path, dugpa, Atlantian, Lemurian or whatever. What precisely do any of us really know about Atlantis or Lemuria that really exists? The tradition about them is interesting, even stimulating but where is reality of it? Only personal agreement that it once was and is not in our now.
                   
                     There is a doctrine of the Eighth Consciousness that is beyond the 7th of Blavatsky in the Mahayana teaching, anyone can Google it. Gariaev has not awareness of the 8th consciousness, the Store Consciousness. Gariaev made mention that his Science Research Team at Russia's Academy of Science had detected certain indications that there was a source of oversight that had locality within the non-local Quantum Matrix that monitored, managed, and supervised the process of the DNA-wave communications from the cells and dna of all livings forms. He says they do not know what exactly it is but it is there. Today there are new evolutions of knowledge that are a new wave form as compared to Blavatsky's time even though the discovery's of many of the current major contributors of todays science were born before her in the century she lived in.
                   
                      Maybe a softer way than efforts to read scientific articles is to view some Google videos about the topic of Biophotonic matter and how Light itself is responsible for life itself of living matter. The ancient Mandeans always ended their teaching with the proclamation "The Great Life is Victorious" , Blavatsky in her cosmology doctrine has comment on Light and Life. How can anyone know truth relationally as the true basis of things unless they learn and grow in knowledge. "I am the Way - The Light - and the Truth" caused an major world religion to appear. Light is Photons, Photons are what Purush seems to be, Purush is a Logos, it is likely that the Vital body of Blavatsky, Vedanta, and others is composed of Photons. The Photons act as "Units of awareness" and messengers that provide the necessary information to effect the primary management of life forms in universe.
                   
                     The reference to human-animal genetics is extraneous to all the examples I gave, none exhibit any genetic attempts to immorally co-combine humans and animals. I have read a great deal of what Gariaev publishes online, not once does he ever mentions the word "Astral", in fact I think it was not ever in his vocabulary and certainly not in the usage of serious scientists in the discipline they practice. I indeed tried to convey that what many generations of mankind have been referring to as the astral "template" of gross human form or all forms is indeed the findings of Gariaev, Popp, Jacques Benveniste where in they all find an electromagnetic  data template that possesses the complete form information that renders a true bonifide      copy of the physical itself. In fact today Gariaev and others have successfully restored organs of the human body that were dying by resending healthy electromagnet data template information back into the organ and it does "regenerate", it is documented and replicated. The information data electromagnetic template exists in the "Non-local Quantum Matrix" in a other dimensional reality and just like the astral performs similar purpose and functions in unity with the "Photon" carriers that bridge the dimensional interface.
                   
                  BTW, years ago I had experience to meet a certain individual that claimed to be Lemurian who loved to related about how  they performed the combining of human-animal forms, giving as example the zoomorphic forms of the Egyptian Diety and pantheons. Another item none of us has ever seen in reality as living life forms in the here and now.
                   
                  "Having fallen down in godliness they
                  mixed with animal races.."
                   
                  My comment, the Mahatma's and Blavatsky state there is no God in their doctrine of reality so please tell me where "fallen down in Godliness" has any revenant reality in terms of Theosophical doctrine?
                   
                     I remember "Dolly" the sheep that was a genetic experiment, it failed miserably and the Scientific Community so recognized it as a failed science and still does today. I don't perceive a basis to be stiffly paranoid that huge populations of various animal will be irrevocably malformed forever in any significant degree.. I do have some apprehensions but they are the ruler of my life nor will they become so. There are always impediments to progress and stumbling blocks to overcomes, condemning progress is immature, juvenile, and most short sighted , dominated by subservience to the lower emotional body and stimulated anxieties. I much rather search, seek find the successes of Mankind  that exhibits Freedom, Love, creativity, progress, expansion of mind and understanding.
                   
                     
                   
                  I am not a young person also,and I remember the commotions when organ transplants, artificial insemination, and all the rest came into our  "present Time" in which we have existence and life of the "NOW". And Genetics also probably most notably the Nazi in WWII and their "experiments". Life itself is the River of Universal Consciousness, imperfection is a Transcen  dent prerequisite for the Creations to have appearance and due to that same "imperfection" as the very bedrock of maintenance and continuation of the universes imperfect error exist and the offending content has existence but to treat it a the dominant percentile is in error and wrong. Man is basically GOOD. The 65 % of Dark Energy and the 35 % Dark Matter is also Consciousness, granted it is inter-dimensional but that does not communicate anything evil or good. In Mahayana and all the past teachings the Decade is the structural Frame. Blavatsky gave out the first 7 levels and withheld the next 3. In Mahayana the last 3 are Storehouse 8th Consciousness, 9th Consciousness - The Great Mirror Consciousness, and the 10th Consciousness is the Causeless cause of causes, as found universally in the ancient doctrine. The Pythagorians also employed the decade as did the Greeks and Hebrew. I really cannot duplicate how Christian Doctrine can be the fallback that reply's for Blavatsky or as support to invalidate my stance, it is simply senseless. Only 5% of creation is the matter, form that is perceptible to our organs of perception. The human DNA operates only on less than 5 % of the DNA Genome. Sorry but Blavatsky taught us to "TRY" to KNOW. Dumbing down people  as policy is the act of suppression and that is DUGPA  and Left-hand Path.  Blavatsky predicts that we as mankind will transform into the 6th and 7th someday in a future somewhere. I seriously doubt that can happen unless positive change happens from second to second that effects transformation of all the spectrum of Mankind's knowledge, capacities, faculties, knowledge, sciences, abilities, consciousness, perceptions and awareness across the entire periods of time until we become arrived to primal original Nature. "Stopping" things
                  cannot cause evolution. The process is "Start- Change -Stop" form the Macro to the Micro holistically.
                     I have a neighbor who has a liver transplant, without it he would have died many years ago. Tens of Thousands of Lives have been saved. Millions of babies, children, women, men   everywhere have had their lives made more easy and livable and their suffering relieved as well as their pain and torment as a direct result of Genetic Science.The guiding IDEA is to BENEFIT MANKIND in my view. I don't have any interest in fixing my perceptions on the negative philosophical distortions that grab and seize and direct in a fixated manner on the bad ideas of things, let us all look for the GOOD and cause disempowerment of the negative which is a drug of mind and energy. We must create GOOD and see potential GOOD as it comes to our awareness. Fixation is death and stasis. Do not become frozen in time or moment or mind or Hamlets Mill will grind you into flour and you will be recycled as bread to the approaching generations.
                   
                  John
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   

                  From: "Mark Jaqua" <markrjaqua@...>
                  To: "theos-talk" <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 2:36:43 PM
                  Subject: theos-talk Re: Homo Erectus

                   

                  I think where much of what modern science, especially biology,
                  et. al. and genetic research is going, Blavatsky would probably call
                  "black magic." I wrote an article about 35 years ago - "Doomsday,
                  Atlantis and Genetic Research" (TAT Journal, spring, 1979 - probably
                  still online) which I skimmed over again, and I can't believe that I
                  still think it is pretty much right-on. (please pardon the preening
                  feathers) Here's a quote on Blavatsky:


                  "Madame Blavatsky, in The Secret Doctrine (published in 1888), has
                  some intriguing things to say about the Atlanteans. She claims that
                  they "breeded with animals" which brought about biological
                  monstrosities and the wrath of Nature. Since impregnation of animals
                  by men seems biologically impossible, this myth could be an allegory
                  concerning recombinant DNA experiments by the Atlanteans. In the
                  ancient Tibetan manuscript, The Stanzas of Dzyan, Blavatsky quotes a
                  reference to the Atlanteans: "Having fallen down in godliness they
                  mixed with animal races... Many acquired Divine, more - UNLAWFUL
                  knowledge, and followed willingly the LEFT PATH." (15) If you can
                  interpret the arcane language, "mixing with animals" could refer to
                  genetic experiments, and the "LEFT PATH" would be interpreted as the
                  "path" of utilitarian and material values. In another place in The
                  Secret Doctrine Blavatsky relates an Indian myth about the lost land
                  of "Mu" where "The great lords each had their speaking beast... " -
                  The Secret Doctrine, Volume II, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky,
                  Theosophical University Press, Pasadena, California, p. 331.


                  "Fohat" some years back had an article on the occult aspects of
                  organ transplants, which I still remember, so it must have been pretty
                  good.


                  Part of what John says is probably true, but I think he is way,
                  way, way over-optimistic. All this biological research on the
                  _physical level_ is bound to end with infinite divisibility - just as
                  Blavatsky said the physical atom was "infinitely divisible" which
                  seems to be proving to be so. It all leads to tremendous hubris.


                  Gariaev does seem to have an intuition of the "astral patterns"
                  for evolution Blavatsky refers to where he says:


                  ".....that there is something beyond the DNA, something which informs
                  the DNA factory how to make its constructions." - Peter Gariaev


                  I gave up trying to comprehend this science stuff 20 years
                  ago and believe it is a dead end always - spiritually speaking, and it
                  makes me dispair. But for those who can get something out of it -
                  great for them, and theosophy needs the appropriate supportive data.


                  - jake j.


                  ------------------


                  >2a. Re: Homo Erectus

                  Posted by: "Cass Silva" silva_cass@...
                  <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=silva_cass@...> silva_cass
                  Date: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:22 pm ((PDT))

                  >This is all a bit too scientific for me, but thanks for your efforts

                  Cass
                  --------------------------------------------

                  >On Mon, 21/10/13, Augoeides-222@...

                  wrote:

                  >Subject: Re: theos-talk Homo Erectus

                  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
                  Received: Monday, 21 October, 2013, 10:25 AM

                  >Cass, All,


                  > Well the cranial capacity of only

                  650 cubic cm is less than half of the cranial capacity of
                  our current human skull, that does restrict quite a few
                  attributes.
                  > From time to time the topic of the
                  model body template has arose based upon Madame
                  Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine and the seven economy of
                  being. Now in our current present moment of time there are
                  new contribution every Theosophist should become aware of.
                  Here are several articles that reveal profound knowledge now
                  being established by current science.

                  > Mankind now stands on the doorsill of "Lift of Mind" for all

                  Mankind. Human
                  disease will be abated, illness will be abated, life
                  extension will be greatly extended nearing immortality.. Now
                  we are coming to understand the underlying
                  "substrate" that monitors, models, geometrizes,
                  and perpetuates our human form itself and will very soon
                  acquire undreamed abilities to effect regeneration of
                  organs, reversion of organ destruction. The Electro-
                  magnetic Substrate of the Non-local Quantum Matrix Realm
                  is almost firmly in Mankind's grasp. We as
                  Mankind will step into the next great stage, knowing
                  how to become the virtual Creators of Reality and Form.
                  Madame Blavatsky predicted the stages that will advent as is
                  now happening. Just my personal humble "prophecy".

                  >The Spectroscopy of Biophotons in non-local Genetic

                  Regulation - Peter Gariaev

                  >>>http://www.emergentmind.org/gariaevI3.htm

                  <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.emergentmind.org%2FgariaevI3.htm&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEqSu5sOC_7Pk9bwHxFw7QPV10w7g><<<

                  Physics of Life - Peter Gariaev


                  >>>http://worldwithinworlds.yolasite.com/physicsoflife.php

                  <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fworldwithinworlds.yolasite.com%2Fphysicsoflife.php&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFemoPZgfEn1-P4BqW2ssAJIcBBjg><<<

                  Wave Probabilistic and Linguistic Representations
                  of Cancer - Peter Gariaev


                  >>>http://www.emergentmind.org/gariaevI2.htm

                  <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.emergentmind.org%2FgariaevI2.htm&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNG6El7IdavqTSfMyTqswDUzG8yycg><<<

                  Wave Genetics Response - Peter Gariaev


                  >>>http://www.yogaofabraham.com/the-yoga-of-abraham/yoga-and-life-science/88-wave-genetics.pdf

                  <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yogaofabraham.com%2Fthe-yoga-of-abraham%2Fyoga-and-life-science%2F88-wave-genetics.pdf&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEKpVhXQh3VXBL32JCCFnaMiEkn0g><<<

                  Topological Geometrodynamics inspired
                  Quantum Model of Living Matter - Matti Pitkanen


                  SPIE Proceeding Holographic associated memory and
                  information transmission of solitary waves in biological
                  Systems


                  >>>http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=1014106

                  <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fproceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org%2Fproceeding.aspx%3Farticleid%3D1014106&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFsJy6Fltpn1AMKokxuMy5szU4bKg><<<

                  The Strangeness of Water and Homeopathic Memory - by
                  Dr. Mae Wan Ho


                  >>>http://www.i-sis.org.uk/water3.php

                  <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.i-sis.org.uk%2Fwater3.php&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGAY3_gqVX1cnvm8_S3H367pEsBWQ><<<

                  The Ongoing Process of Creation --- Robert Neil Boyd
                  Ph.D


                  >>>http://worldwithinworlds.yolasite.com/ongoingprocessofcreation.php

                  <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fworldwithinworlds.yolasite.com%2Fongoingprocessofcreation.php&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGnSvdM_s6hxeXQ7x55NbDiwVpOqw><<<

                  Re-incarnational - ontogenesis - Juri N.
                  Cherednichenko


                  >>>http://www.sinor.ru/~che/reincarnation.htm#J.N

                  <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sinor.ru%2F~che%2Freincarnation.htm%23J.N&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGZ51QL4umDVsSf3ok2KKoZaydMkA>.
                  Cherednichenko<<<

                  Here is a link for the search term "DNA-wave
                  Biocomputer " a paper Peter Gariaev and his
                  research team at the Academy of Sience in Moscow Russia
                  published more that a decade ago. I strongly urge readers to
                  open a link as seen for this title and read to contents of
                  "DNA-wave Biocomputer" it is foundational to his
                  later papers:


                  DNA-wave Biocomputer - Gariaev Google Search


                  >>>https://www.google.com/#q=the+dna-wave+biocomputer+gariaev

                  <https://www.google.com/#q=the+dna-wave+biocomputer+gariaev><<<

                  >This is all heavy reading and unknown territory to many

                  here but please tough it out and read what you can and come
                  back later to read more until you finish the link articles,
                  this should be read with Secret Doctrine Cosmology and
                  Anthropogenesis in mind to cross reference and realte to as
                  you penetrate the contents. You will see what Blavatsky predicted is
                  now in process.

                  >John

                  ----------------

                • Mark Jaqua
                  John, Thanks for your comments on your perspective on things. As you impled, this isn t an esoteric group, and people can think what they wish. I think you
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 25, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    John,
                    Thanks for your comments on your perspective on things. 'As you
                    impled, this isn't an esoteric group, and people can think what they
                    wish. I think you should congratulate yourself, as being probably an
                    older geezer than me, and still being able to "head trip" on a zillion
                    different mental ramifications! ha 'rare!
                    My perspective is that all this and the infinite ramifications of
                    physical science is that it is all a mental Tableau, that the real
                    spiritual search is to find one's basis or get a foothold in one's
                    Essence superior in dimension to the mental tableau (which _I think_
                    is in the heart and not head) - which is all the "play of Siva", or
                    however that was put. I was once a good while ago trying to
                    understand Korzybski (?) the Linguist and his contortionist logical
                    analyses - and my head just sort of popped and I realized, for myself,
                    that it was all just a _level_ and all the logic had no ultimate end
                    or real answers, and it all just became nonsense at the extremes.
                    Blavatsky mentions many places 3 more levels of elementals, to her
                    7 levels in manisfestation, for a total of 10 - however the metaphors
                    play out. And, it may be in HPB also, but Purucker mentions 12
                    levels, I believe, and the formation of manifestation on the model of
                    the dodecahedron, or 12-sided figure.
                    Blavatsky's "Having fallen down in godliness they
                    mixed with animal races.." - "godliness" is just a metaphor of course
                    in limited western language, and she was trying to translate a real
                    manuscript (astral or not, I don't know). She certainly wasn't a
                    personal god proponent.
                    I don't know what the ultimate bottom-line ethically is on
                    transplants. Occultly I have to think they are not good, but if a
                    loved one is involved that is a heck of a choice......
                    I disagree with you that most people are good and that the
                    tendency of practical science is good. When push comes to shove the
                    tendencey of _most_ people is overwhelmingly still to the bad side of
                    things (and profit!). In the SD Dialogues (ULT) HPB says in her day
                    that people were much worse than in the worse and fabled Atlantean
                    days, and most of us haven't changed that much - although 'have to say
                    there are a heck of a lot! of people and small groups working out
                    there for altruistic purposes nowdays!
                    - jake j.



                    -------------
                    >1a. Re: Homo Erectus
                    Posted by: Augoeides-222@...
                    <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=Augoeides-222@...>
                    Date: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:37 am ((PDT))

                    >Jake,
                    > Thanks for you reply and comments. Everyone has the right to an opinion
                    , you have one, that is ok to me. I have also an opinion and reasons why
                    I think Biophotonic's are the true future. There is zero black magic to
                    the recognition of the Light, or the earth store house sutra of
                    Mahayana. The ancient Gnostics and Hebrew had doctrine on the "lost
                    sparks of light" , and the Gnostics also even though they did not have
                    cognizance of photons then. What they called Rays, Sparks,
                    scintillations etc are approximate to todays "photons" They also had
                    concept of the "Light Body". The Tibetans and Hindu have the belief in
                    the "Rainbow Body" There are many ways to approach new knowledge better
                    than condemnations without true knowledge or inspection. The Pistis
                    Sophia is an ancient Gnostic work that has some amount of discussion of
                    the Light. The ancient Mandeaens also taught the doctrine of the
                    light. The ancient Caduceus of the Greek and Egyptians were mimicry to
                    the double DNA helix of modern times. They worshiped the Sun as the
                    symbol of life and light. All Science is not evil, even if there are and
                    will be due to human error and conditioned mind offending actions of
                    science that happen it Is not true that all science is evil, left hand
                    path, dugpa, Atlantian, Lemurian or whatever. What precisely do any of
                    us really know about Atlantis or Lemuria that really exists? The
                    tradition about them is interesting, even stimulating but where is
                    reality of it? Only personal agreement that it once was and is not in
                    our now.

                    > There is a doctrine of the Eighth Consciousness that is beyond the
                    7th of Blavatsky in the Mahayana teaching, anyone can Google it. Gariaev
                    has not awareness of the 8th consciousness, the Store Consciousness.
                    Gariaev made mention that his Science Research Team at Russia's Academy
                    of Science had detected certain indications that there was a source of
                    oversight that had locality within the non-local Quantum Matrix
                    that monitored, managed, and supervised the process of the DNA-wave
                    communications from the cells and dna of all livings forms. He says they
                    do not know what exactly it is but it is there. Today there are new
                    evolutions of knowledge that are a new wave form as compared to
                    Blavatsky's time even though the discovery's of many of the current
                    major contributors of todays science were born before her in the century
                    she lived in.

                    > Maybe a softer way than efforts to read scientific articles is to
                    view some Google videos about the topic of Biophotonic matter and how
                    Light itself is responsible for life itself of living matter. The
                    ancient Mandeans always ended their teaching with the proclamation "The
                    Great Life is Victorious" , Blavatsky in her cosmology doctrine has
                    comment on Light and Life. How can anyone know truth relationally as the
                    true basis of things unless they learn and grow in knowledge. "I am the
                    Way - The Light - and the Truth" caused an major world religion to
                    appear. Light is Photons, Photons are what Purush seems to be, Purush is
                    a Logos, it is likely that the Vital body of Blavatsky, Vedanta, and
                    others is composed of Photons. The Photons act as "Units of awareness"
                    and messengers that provide the necessary information to effect the
                    primary management of life forms in universe.

                    > The reference to human-animal genetics is extraneous to all the
                    examples I gave, none exhibit any genetic attempts to immorally
                    co-combine humans and animals. I have read a great deal of what Gariaev
                    publishes online, not once does he ever mentions the word "Astral", in
                    fact I think it was not ever in his vocabulary and certainly not in the
                    usage of serious scientists in the discipline they practice. I indeed
                    tried to convey that what many generations of mankind have been
                    referring to as the astral "template" of gross human form or all forms
                    is indeed the findings of Gariaev, Popp, Jacques Benveniste where in
                    they all find an electromagnetic data template that possesses the
                    complete form information that renders a true bonifide copy of the
                    physical itself. In fact today Gariaev and others have successfully
                    restored organs of the human body that were dying by resending healthy
                    electromagnet data template information back into the organ and it does
                    "regenerate", it is documented and replicated. The information data
                    electromagnetic template exists in the "Non-local Quantum Matrix" in a
                    other dimensional reality and just like the astral performs similar
                    purpose and functions in unity with the "Photon" carriers that bridge
                    the dimensional interface.

                    >BTW, years ago I had experience to meet a certain individual that
                    claimed to be Lemurian who loved to related about how they performed
                    the combining of human-animal forms, giving as example the zoomorphic
                    forms of the Egyptian Diety and pantheons. Another item none of us has
                    ever seen in reality as living life forms in the here and now.

                    >"Having fallen down in godliness they
                    mixed with animal races.."

                    >My comment, the Mahatma's and Blavatsky state there is no God in their
                    doctrine of reality so please tell me where "fallen down in Godliness"
                    has any revenant reality in terms of Theosophical doctrine?

                    > I remember "Dolly" the sheep that was a genetic experiment, it failed
                    miserably and the Scientific Community so recognized it as a failed
                    science and still does today. I don't perceive a basis to be stiffly
                    paranoid that huge populations of various animal will be irrevocably
                    malformed forever in any significant degree.. I do have some
                    apprehensions but they are the ruler of my life nor will they become so.
                    There are always impediments to progress and stumbling blocks to
                    overcomes, condemning progress is immature, juvenile, and most short
                    sighted , dominated by subservience to the lower emotional body and
                    stimulated anxieties. I much rather search, seek find the successes of
                    Mankind that exhibits Freedom, Love, creativity, progress, expansion of
                    mind and understanding.

                    >I am not a young person also,and I remember the commotions when organ
                    transplants, artificial insemination, and all the rest came into our
                    "present Time" in which we have existence and life of the "NOW". And
                    Genetics also probably most notably the Nazi in WWII and their
                    "experiments". Life itself is the River of Universal Consciousness,
                    imperfection is a Transcen dent prerequisite for the Creations to have
                    appearance and due to that same "imperfection" as the very bedrock of
                    maintenance and continuation of the universes imperfect error exist and
                    the offending content has existence but to treat it a the dominant
                    percentile is in error and wrong. Man is basically GOOD. The 65 % of
                    Dark Energy and the 35 % Dark Matter is also Consciousness, granted it
                    is inter-dimensional but that does not communicate anything evil or
                    good. In Mahayana and all the past teachings the Decade is the
                    structural Frame. Blavatsky gave out the first 7 levels and withheld the
                    next 3. In Mahayana the last 3 are Storehouse 8th Consciousness, 9th
                    Consciousness - The Great Mirror Consciousness, and the 10th
                    Consciousness is the Causeless cause of causes, as found universally in
                    the ancient doctrine. The Pythagorians also employed the decade as did
                    the Greeks and Hebrew. I really cannot duplicate how Christian Doctrine
                    can be the fallback that reply's for Blavatsky or as support to
                    invalidate my stance, it is simply senseless. Only 5% of creation is the
                    matter, form that is perceptible to our organs of perception. The human
                    DNA operates only on less than 5 % of the DNA Genome. Sorry but
                    Blavatsky taught us to "TRY" to KNOW. Dumbing down people as policy is
                    the act of suppression and that is DUGPA and Left-hand Path. Blavatsky
                    predicts that we as mankind will transform into the 6th and 7th someday
                    in a future somewhere. I seriously doubt that can happen unless positive
                    change happens from second to second that effects transformation of all
                    the spectrum of Mankind's knowledge, capacities, faculties, knowledge,
                    sciences, abilities, consciousness, perceptions and awareness across the
                    entire periods of time until we become arrived to primal original
                    Nature. "Stopping" things
                    cannot cause evolution. The process is "Start- Change -Stop" form the
                    Macro to the Micro holistically.
                    > I have a neighbor who has a liver transplant, without it he would
                    have died many years ago. Tens of Thousands of Lives have been saved.
                    Millions of babies, children, women, men everywhere have had their
                    lives made more easy and livable and their suffering relieved as well as
                    their pain and torment as a direct result of Genetic Science.The guiding
                    IDEA is to BENEFIT MANKIND in my view. I don't have any interest in
                    fixing my perceptions on the negative philosophical distortions that
                    grab and seize and direct in a fixated manner on the bad ideas of
                    things, let us all look for the GOOD and cause disempowerment of the
                    negative which is a drug of mind and energy. We must create GOOD and see
                    potential GOOD as it comes to our awareness. Fixation is death and
                    stasis. Do not become frozen in time or moment or mind or Hamlets Mill
                    will grind you into flour and you will be recycled as bread to the
                    approaching generations.

                    >John

                    ----- Original Message -----

                    >From: "Mark Jaqua" <markrjaqua@...
                    <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=markrjaqua@...>>
                    To: "theos-talk" <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
                    <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>>
                    Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 2:36:43 PM
                    Subject: theos-talk Re: Homo Erect


                    >I think where much of what modern science, especially biology,
                    et. al. and genetic research is going, Blavatsky would probably call
                    "black magic." I wrote an article about 35 years ago - "Doomsday,
                    Atlantis and Genetic Research" (TAT Journal, spring, 1979 - probably
                    still online) which I skimmed over again, and I can't believe that I
                    still think it is pretty much right-on. (please pardon the preening
                    feathers) Here's a quote on Blavatsky:

                    >"Madame Blavatsky, in The Secret Doctrine (published in 1888), has
                    some intriguing things to say about the Atlanteans. She claims that
                    they "breeded with animals" which brought about biological
                    monstrosities and the wrath of Nature. Since impregnation of animals
                    by men seems biologically impossible, this myth could be an allegory
                    concerning recombinant DNA experiments by the Atlanteans. In the
                    ancient Tibetan manuscript, The Stanzas of Dzyan, Blavatsky quotes a
                    reference to the Atlanteans: "Having fallen down in godliness they
                    mixed with animal races... Many acquired Divine, more - UNLAWFUL
                    knowledge, and followed willingly the LEFT PATH." (15) If you can
                    interpret the arcane language, "mixing with animals" could refer to
                    genetic experiments, and the "LEFT PATH" would be interpreted as the
                    "path" of utilitarian and material values. In another place in The
                    Secret Doctrine Blavatsky relates an Indian myth about the lost land
                    of "Mu" where "The great lords each had their speaking beast... " -
                    The Secret Doctrine, Volume II, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky,
                    Theosophical University Press, Pasadena, California, p. 331.

                    >"Fohat" some years back had an article on the occult aspects of
                    organ transplants, which I still remember, so it must have been pretty
                    good.

                    >Part of what John says is probably true, but I think he is way,
                    way, way over-optimistic. All this biological research on the
                    _physical level_ is bound to end with infinite divisibility - just as
                    Blavatsky said the physical atom was "infinitely divisible" which
                    seems to be proving to be so. It all leads to tremendous hubris.

                    >Gariaev does seem to have an intuition of the "astral patterns"
                    for evolution Blavatsky refers to where he says:

                    >".....that there is something beyond the DNA, something which informs
                    the DNA factory how to make its constructions." - Peter Gariaev

                    >I gave up trying to comprehend this science stuff 20 years
                    ago and believe it is a dead end always - spiritually speaking, and it
                    makes me dispair. But for those who can get something out of it -
                    great for them, and theosophy needs the appropriate supportive data.


                    >- jake j.

                    ------------------
                  • Augoeides-222@...
                    Mark,    My perspective is that all this and the infinite ramifications of physical science is that it is all a mental Tableau
                    Message 9 of 10 , Oct 27, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Mark,
                        >>>My perspective is that all this and the infinite ramifications of
                      physical science is that it is all a mental Tableau<<<
                       
                          Well it is a physical, psychical, mental arena of the "play of life' in India it is called "Leela" and translates as "sport" as in the "sport of Vishnu", Vishnu characterizes the Causeless cause that "Projects' The illusionary manifested creation whish has as substrate Matter, Energy, space and time , upon this carpet so to speak the illusion of objects takes palce and dimension takes reality, once there are objects and life forms the "units of Awareness of the Causeless cause are enabled to have extension within the illusionary projected reality (these Units of Awareness are Pure Consciousness that possess neither mind nor thought, they have not been yet assembled as expedient "instrumentation" necessary for the unevolved  crude forms , later they are created that they might be helpmates to the Consciousness that presides over all. The point is Spiritual is not mental and mental is not spiritual, mental is expedient attribute that has appearance and habitation only within the manifest "Secondary world" and when Pralaya occurs it is dissolved into it primordial Nature.
                         The Original Nature never left it's Nature, there is not arriving because there was never a departure, our common universal Spiritual Nature has no karma, no misdeeds, no merit, no mark or stain of sin or error. It is only within the reality of the illusionary Play of Life that the possibility of consideration and agreement to have decision that there can exist such effects that can only have habitation in the projected Secondary World that is the Leela or "Play of Life.
                       
                      >>>I was once a good while ago trying to
                      understand Korzybski (?) the Linguist and his contortionist logical
                      analyses<<<
                       
                         Lol! Yes I read him also and experience the same effects you did. That was in the mid-1950's in Germany in the Army to pas the time. Him and others also.
                       
                      >>>which is all the "play of Siva", or
                      however that was put.<<<
                       
                        Both Vishnu and Siva' have portrayal of the Play of Life but there is a difference between the two. Shiva' is the function that has action enabled by the primordial Mother who is the Shakti (the first subtle primordial most refined projected form of higher energy/'matter. It is the Son-ship of Shiva who then takes charge of the process of Start- Change (Evolve) - Stop that  encompass the manifesting, evolution, and pralaya of the manvantaric cycles etc. The energy of Shiva which portrays the "energy/matter" that has illusionary appearance is characterized as the "Feminine" Consort of Shiva they are a "unity" during Manifestation of any of the cyclic creations ( in the middle Temple period of the Hebrew religion there was during that period 2 18 feet tall statues male and female in connubial embrace in the Holies of Holies of the Second Temple, it is a similar metaphor but in the Hebrew form the female portrayed "Wisdom" as in the Gnostic Pistis Sophia. When the 3rd Temple period came to exist the "Idolatry" became forbidden and forever removed.
                       
                      >>> don't know what the ultimate bottom-line ethically is on
                      transplants. Occultly I have to think they are not good, but if a
                      loved one is involved that is a heck of a choice<<<
                       
                      My view is long ago in many cultures there were beliefs that the various organs of the body in actually possessed the Spiritual elements that composed the "economy of the Being", this was rigid view in it's days and more recently still taught  by the Rosecrucian Orders. Astrology also indicates this. But this is to my view only the enforced lower mantal computational under the dictate of the Conditioned Mind al la Patanjali. What the ethos is to me is correct recognition of the suffering of mankind and the cultivation of the Loving heart of Compassion in actions that alleviate, remit, heal, restore native original state as much as is possible form the virtue of Mercy which is a gradiant of Grace. Grace is the final 5th act of Shiva when we all are returned to Native State as Primary and no longer Secondary. Grace is the Will  (Iccha ). How can he claim spiritual estate if we demure to have no compassion in thought, word and deed?
                       
                      >>>Blavatsky mentions many places 3 more levels of elementals, to her
                      7 levels in manisfestation, for a total of 10 - however the metaphors
                      play out. And, it may be in HPB also, but Purucker mentions 12
                      levels, I believe, and the formation of manifestation on the model of
                      the dodecahedron, or 12-sided figure.<<<
                       
                      I defined what I indicated, I did not make mention of any elemental stratum. The Buddha also performed restraint on the subject of "Nirvana". There are 4 stages of Nirvana, in most  western countries they expound it is the blowing out of the candle and entails ultimate "extinction", a nihilistic false view. Like the Four Stages of the Arhat there are Four stages of Nirvana. anciently the axiomatic metaphor of Plato and others that God Geometrizes has long been a proclamation and teaching. but in the East there are stages beyond form, beyond mind, being beyond mind and form and in the realm of pure consciousness where has geometric context a habitat? Levels in any form imply matter/energy states even if most subtle in form or context which then constrains to the Illusionary Mayavic Projection in the reality of the Secondary World or manifesting Creation, all things in Secondary Creation are imperfect as requisite top being found there
                       
                      >>>I disagree with you that most people are good and that the
                      tendency of practical science is good.<<<
                       
                      What I call Man is the Pure Spirit that is resident, not the lower ego, the generated form or present context of matter form which has ego and conditioned mind. It is the Pure Spirit that is the Good. And it is LIFE that is Victorious (this life is not our possession or an object, it is the invincible intrinsic pervasive limitless Nature of the Causeless Cause in which like fish we have "participation" as "Unit of Awareness" unsullied and Primordial. All Mankind has Life that is inseparable and unity.
                       
                         I really don't understand how you can ignore the pain and suffering that is remised and relieved by current science. Madame Blavatsky did reviled science in some of her statements but in others she lauded science and used it to support her doctrine and views. Madame Blavatsky and Col. Olcutt also used the Telegram service from time to time which is a product of science, she and Olcutt also rode trains in india, ships on the wide oceans, carraiges drawn by horses and even oxen and Yaks which intelligence created that relieved the pain and suffering a good deal. If Blavatsky were alive today she for sure would be crossing the planet on Airbuses, riding Bullet trains, using Iphone and tablets. The idea that science is evil is a flawed theorem and a false teaching based on a false belief in Utopian wishes for imaginary "Paradises" that only existed in Religious Dogmas. Theosophy can never be leader of anything of value with that view. And has nothing to offer to the youth of the NOW with such attitudes. The truth is almost all the  people have zero awareness of 1 percent of Science in it's breath and depths and rely on ignorant computations of the conditioned mind.
                       
                      Many year ago here on this Forum when I had a different E-mail "Samblo@..." I poste about Ostriches with their heads buried deep in the sand of time and their tail feathers pointing at the sun in the desert with a gate that said "Theosophy" just a few feet from them, unable to enter because they refused to look at reality they never reached Theosophy. It seems it is still true today. how can any complain and fail to know why Theosophy is in steady decline???
                       
                      John
                       
                       
                       
                       
                      "rom:MarkJaqueail.com>
                      To: "theos-talk" <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 8:12:02 AM
                      Subject: theos-talk Re: Homo Erectus

                       

                      John,
                      Thanks for your comments on your perspective on things. 'As you
                      impled, this isn't an esoteric group, and people can think what they
                      wish. I think you should congratulate yourself, as being probably an
                      older geezer than me, and still being able to "head trip" on a zillion
                      different mental ramifications! ha 'rare!
                      My perspective is that all this and the infinite ramifications of
                      physical science is that it is all a mental Tableau, that the real
                      spiritual search is to find one's basis or get a foothold in one's
                      Essence superior in dimension to the mental tableau (which _I think_
                      is in the heart and not head) - which is all the "play of Siva", or
                      however that was put. I was once a good while ago trying to
                      understand Korzybski (?) the Linguist and his contortionist logical
                      analyses - and my head just sort of popped and I realized, for myself,
                      that it was all just a _level_ and all the logic had no ultimate end
                      or real answers, and it all just became nonsense at the extremes.
                      Blavatsky mentions many places 3 more levels of elementals, to her
                      7 levels in manisfestation, for a total of 10 - however the metaphors
                      play out. And, it may be in HPB also, but Purucker mentions 12
                      levels, I believe, and the formation of manifestation on the model of
                      the dodecahedron, or 12-sided figure.
                      Blavatsky's "Having fallen down in godliness they
                      mixed with animal races.." - "godliness" is just a metaphor of course
                      in limited western language, and she was trying to translate a real
                      manuscript (astral or not, I don't know). She certainly wasn't a
                      personal god proponent.
                      I don't know what the ultimate bottom-line ethically is on
                      transplants. Occultly I have to think they are not good, but if a
                      loved one is involved that is a heck of a choice......
                      I disagree with you that most people are good and that the
                      tendency of practical science is good. When push comes to shove the
                      tendencey of _most_ people is overwhelmingly still to the bad side of
                      things (and profit!). In the SD Dialogues (ULT) HPB says in her day
                      that people were much worse than in the worse and fabled Atlantean
                      days, and most of us haven't changed that much - although 'have to say
                      there are a heck of a lot! of people and small groups working out
                      there for altruistic purposes nowdays!
                      - jake j.


                      -------------

                      >1a. Re: Homo Erectus
                      Posted by: Augoeides-222@...
                      <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=Augoeides-222@...>
                      Date: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:37 am ((PDT))


                      >Jake,
                      > Thanks for you reply and comments. Everyone has the right to an opinion

                      , you have one, that is ok to me. I have also an opinion and reasons why
                      I think Biophotonic's are the true future. There is zero black magic to
                      the recognition of the Light, or the earth store house sutra of
                      Mahayana. The ancient Gnostics and Hebrew had doctrine on the "lost
                      sparks of light" , and the Gnostics also even though they did not have
                      cognizance of photons then. What they called Rays, Sparks,
                      scintillations etc are approximate to todays "photons" They also had
                      concept of the "Light Body". The Tibetans and Hindu have the belief in
                      the "Rainbow Body" There are many ways to approach new knowledge better
                      than condemnations without true knowledge or inspection. The Pistis
                      Sophia is an ancient Gnostic work that has some amount of discussion of
                      the Light. The ancient Mandeaens also taught the doctrine of the
                      light. The ancient Caduceus of the Greek and Egyptians were mimicry to
                      the double DNA helix of modern times. They worshiped the Sun as the
                      symbol of life and light. All Science is not evil, even if there are and
                      will be due to human error and conditioned mind offending actions of
                      science that happen it Is not true that all science is evil, left hand
                      path, dugpa, Atlantian, Lemurian or whatever. What precisely do any of
                      us really know about Atlantis or Lemuria that really exists? The
                      tradition about them is interesting, even stimulating but where is
                      reality of it? Only personal agreement that it once was and is not in
                      our now.

                      > There is a doctrine of the Eighth Consciousness that is beyond the

                      7th of Blavatsky in the Mahayana teaching, anyone can Google it. Gariaev
                      has not awareness of the 8th consciousness, the Store Consciousness.
                      Gariaev made mention that his Science Research Team at Russia's Academy
                      of Science had detected certain indications that there was a source of
                      oversight that had locality within the non-local Quantum Matrix
                      that monitored, managed, and supervised the process of the DNA-wave
                      communications from the cells and dna of all livings forms. He says they
                      do not know what exactly it is but it is there. Today there are new
                      evolutions of knowledge that are a new wave form as compared to
                      Blavatsky's time even though the discovery's of many of the current
                      major contributors of todays science were born before her in the century
                      she lived in.

                      > Maybe a softer way than efforts to read scientific articles is to

                      view some Google videos about the topic of Biophotonic matter and how
                      Light itself is responsible for life itself of living matter. The
                      ancient Mandeans always ended their teaching with the proclamation "The
                      Great Life is Victorious" , Blavatsky in her cosmology doctrine has
                      comment on Light and Life. How can anyone know truth relationally as the
                      true basis of things unless they learn and grow in knowledge. "I am the
                      Way - The Light - and the Truth" caused an major world religion to
                      appear. Light is Photons, Photons are what Purush seems to be, Purush is
                      a Logos, it is likely that the Vital body of Blavatsky, Vedanta, and
                      others is composed of Photons. The Photons act as "Units of awareness"
                      and messengers that provide the necessary information to effect the
                      primary management of life forms in universe.

                      > The reference to human-animal genetics is extraneous to all the

                      examples I gave, none exhibit any genetic attempts to immorally
                      co-combine humans and animals. I have read a great deal of what Gariaev
                      publishes online, not once does he ever mentions the word "Astral", in
                      fact I think it was not ever in his vocabulary and certainly not in the
                      usage of serious scientists in the discipline they practice. I indeed
                      tried to convey that what many generations of mankind have been
                      referring to as the astral "template" of gross human form or all forms
                      is indeed the findings of Gariaev, Popp, Jacques Benveniste where in
                      they all find an electromagnetic data template that possesses the
                      complete form information that renders a true bonifide copy of the
                      physical itself. In fact today Gariaev and others have successfully
                      restored organs of the human body that were dying by resending healthy
                      electromagnet data template information back into the organ and it does
                      "regenerate", it is documented and replicated. The information data
                      electromagnetic template exists in the "Non-local Quantum Matrix" in a
                      other dimensional reality and just like the astral performs similar
                      purpose and functions in unity with the "Photon" carriers that bridge
                      the dimensional interface.

                      >BTW, years ago I had experience to meet a certain individual that

                      claimed to be Lemurian who loved to related about how they performed
                      the combining of human-animal forms, giving as example the zoomorphic
                      forms of the Egyptian Diety and pantheons. Another item none of us has
                      ever seen in reality as living life forms in the here and now.

                      >"Having fallen down in godliness they

                      mixed with animal races.."

                      >My comment, the Mahatma's and Blavatsky state there is no God in their

                      doctrine of reality so please tell me where "fallen down in Godliness"
                      has any revenant reality in terms of Theosophical doctrine?

                      > I remember "Dolly" the sheep that was a genetic experiment, it failed

                      miserably and the Scientific Community so recognized it as a failed
                      science and still does today. I don't perceive a basis to be stiffly
                      paranoid that huge populations of various animal will be irrevocably
                      malformed forever in any significant degree.. I do have some
                      apprehensions but they are the ruler of my life nor will they become so.
                      There are always impediments to progress and stumbling blocks to
                      overcomes, condemning progress is immature, juvenile, and most short
                      sighted , dominated by subservience to the lower emotional body and
                      stimulated anxieties. I much rather search, seek find the successes of
                      Mankind that exhibits Freedom, Love, creativity, progress, expansion of
                      mind and understanding.

                      >I am not a young person also,and I remember the commotions when organ

                      transplants, artificial insemination, and all the rest came into our
                      "present Time" in which we have existence and life of the "NOW". And
                      Genetics also probably most notably the Nazi in WWII and their
                      "experiments". Life itself is the River of Universal Consciousness,
                      imperfection is a Transcen dent prerequisite for the Creations to have
                      appearance and due to that same "imperfection" as the very bedrock of
                      maintenance and continuation of the universes imperfect error exist and
                      the offending content has existence but to treat it a the dominant
                      percentile is in error and wrong. Man is basically GOOD. The 65 % of
                      Dark Energy and the 35 % Dark Matter is also Consciousness, granted it
                      is inter-dimensional but that does not communicate anything evil or
                      good. In Mahayana and all the past teachings the Decade is the
                      structural Frame. Blavatsky gave out the first 7 levels and withheld the
                      next 3. In Mahayana the last 3 are Storehouse 8th Consciousness, 9th
                      Consciousness - The Great Mirror Consciousness, and the 10th
                      Consciousness is the Causeless cause of causes, as found universally in
                      the ancient doctrine. The Pythagorians also employed the decade as did
                      the Greeks and Hebrew. I really cannot duplicate how Christian Doctrine
                      can be the fallback that reply's for Blavatsky or as support to
                      invalidate my stance, it is simply senseless. Only 5% of creation is the
                      matter, form that is perceptible to our organs of perception. The human
                      DNA operates only on less than 5 % of the DNA Genome. Sorry but
                      Blavatsky taught us to "TRY" to KNOW. Dumbing down people as policy is
                      the act of suppression and that is DUGPA and Left-hand Path. Blavatsky
                      predicts that we as mankind will transform into the 6th and 7th someday
                      in a future somewhere. I seriously doubt that can happen unless positive
                      change happens from second to second that effects transformation of all
                      the spectrum of Mankind's knowledge, capacities, faculties, knowledge,
                      sciences, abilities, consciousness, perceptions and awareness across the
                      entire periods of time until we become arrived to primal original
                      Nature. "Stopping" things
                      cannot cause evolution. The process is "Start- Change -Stop" form the
                      Macro to the Micro holistically.
                      > I have a neighbor who has a liver transplant, without it he would
                      have died many years ago. Tens of Thousands of Lives have been saved.
                      Millions of babies, children, women, men everywhere have had their
                      lives made more easy and livable and their suffering relieved as well as
                      their pain and torment as a direct result of Genetic Science.The guiding
                      IDEA is to BENEFIT MANKIND in my view. I don't have any interest in
                      fixing my perceptions on the negative philosophical distortions that
                      grab and seize and direct in a fixated manner on the bad ideas of
                      things, let us all look for the GOOD and cause disempowerment of the
                      negative which is a drug of mind and energy. We must create GOOD and see
                      potential GOOD as it comes to our awareness. Fixation is death and
                      stasis. Do not become frozen in time or moment or mind or Hamlets Mill
                      will grind you into flour and you will be recycled as bread to the
                      approaching generations.

                      >John


                      ----- Original Message -----


                      >From: "Mark Jaqua" <markrjaqua@...
                      <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=markrjaqua@...>>
                      To: "theos-talk" <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
                      <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>>
                      Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 2:36:43 PM
                      Subject: theos-talk Re: Homo Erect


                      >I think where much of what modern science, especially biology,
                      et. al. and genetic research is going, Blavatsky would probably call
                      "black magic." I wrote an article about 35 years ago - "Doomsday,
                      Atlantis and Genetic Research" (TAT Journal, spring, 1979 - probably
                      still online) which I skimmed over again, and I can't believe that I
                      still think it is pretty much right-on. (please pardon the preening
                      feathers) Here's a quote on Blavatsky:


                      >"Madame Blavatsky, in The Secret Doctrine (published in 1888), has
                      some intriguing things to say about the Atlanteans. She claims that
                      they "breeded with animals" which brought about biological
                      monstrosities and the wrath of Nature. Since impregnation of animals
                      by men seems biologically impossible, this myth could be an allegory
                      concerning recombinant DNA experiments by the Atlanteans. In the
                      ancient Tibetan manuscript, The Stanzas of Dzyan, Blavatsky quotes a
                      reference to the Atlanteans: "Having fallen down in godliness they
                      mixed with animal races... Many acquired Divine, more - UNLAWFUL
                      knowledge, and followed willingly the LEFT PATH." (15) If you can
                      interpret the arcane language, "mixing with animals" could refer to
                      genetic experiments, and the "LEFT PATH" would be interpreted as the
                      "path" of utilitarian and material values. In another place in The
                      Secret Doctrine Blavatsky relates an Indian myth about the lost land
                      of "Mu" where "The great lords each had their speaking beast... " -
                      The Secret Doctrine, Volume II, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky,
                      Theosophical University Press, Pasadena, California, p. 331.


                      >"Fohat" some years back had an article on the occult aspects of
                      organ transplants, which I still remember, so it must have been pretty
                      good.


                      >Part of what John says is probably true, but I think he is way,
                      way, way over-optimistic. All this biological research on the
                      _physical level_ is bound to end with infinite divisibility - just as
                      Blavatsky said the physical atom was "infinitely divisible" which
                      seems to be proving to be so. It all leads to tremendous hubris.


                      >Gariaev does seem to have an intuition of the "astral patterns"
                      for evolution Blavatsky refers to where he says:


                      >".....that there is something beyond the DNA, something which informs
                      the DNA factory how to make its constructions." - Peter Gariaev


                      >I gave up trying to comprehend this science stuff 20 years
                      ago and believe it is a dead end always - spiritually speaking, and it
                      makes me dispair. But for those who can get something out of it -
                      great for them, and theosophy needs the appropriate supportive data.


                      >- jake j.


                      ------------------


                    • .:.
                      We have been talking about the need for theosophy to use leading edge tools that science has created and non one who has the organizational responsibility seem
                      Message 10 of 10 , Oct 28, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        We have been talking about the need for theosophy to use leading edge tools that science has created and non one who has the organizational responsibility seem to listen or understand what they are missing. When a theosophist becomes sick, he or she uses the latest technology and medicines to address the illness. They do not say 'Oh I am happy with last century technology and treatments.'

                        It would be interesting to explore why the backward looking mindset that has seized the consciousness and help them extricate from it so that we can use all available tools the science and technology has provided to all of us.

                        I hope we will a better day during our life times.

                        MKR

                        On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 9:06 PM, <Augoeides-222@...> wrote:
                         

                        Mark,
                          >>>My perspective is that all this and the infinite ramifications of
                        physical science is that it is all a mental Tableau<<<
                         
                            Well it is a physical, psychical, mental arena of the "play of life' in India it is called "Leela" and translates as "sport" as in the "sport of Vishnu", Vishnu characterizes the Causeless cause that "Projects' The illusionary manifested creation whish has as substrate Matter, Energy, space and time , upon this carpet so to speak the illusion of objects takes palce and dimension takes reality, once there are objects and life forms the "units of Awareness of the Causeless cause are enabled to have extension within the illusionary projected reality (these Units of Awareness are Pure Consciousness that possess neither mind nor thought, they have not been yet assembled as expedient "instrumentation" necessary for the unevolved  crude forms , later they are created that they might be helpmates to the Consciousness that presides over all. The point is Spiritual is not mental and mental is not spiritual, mental is expedient attribute that has appearance and habitation only within the manifest "Secondary world" and when Pralaya occurs it is dissolved into it primordial Nature.
                           The Original Nature never left it's Nature, there is not arriving because there was never a departure, our common universal Spiritual Nature has no karma, no misdeeds, no merit, no mark or stain of sin or error. It is only within the reality of the illusionary Play of Life that the possibility of consideration and agreement to have decision that there can exist such effects that can only have habitation in the projected Secondary World that is the Leela or "Play of Life.
                         
                        >>>I was once a good while ago trying to
                        understand Korzybski (?) the Linguist and his contortionist logical
                        analyses<<<
                         
                           Lol! Yes I read him also and experience the same effects you did. That was in the mid-1950's in Germany in the Army to pas the time. Him and others also.
                         
                        >>>which is all the "play of Siva", or
                        however that was put.<<<
                         
                          Both Vishnu and Siva' have portrayal of the Play of Life but there is a difference between the two. Shiva' is the function that has action enabled by the primordial Mother who is the Shakti (the first subtle primordial most refined projected form of higher energy/'matter. It is the Son-ship of Shiva who then takes charge of the process of Start- Change (Evolve) - Stop that  encompass the manifesting, evolution, and pralaya of the manvantaric cycles etc. The energy of Shiva which portrays the "energy/matter" that has illusionary appearance is characterized as the "Feminine" Consort of Shiva they are a "unity" during Manifestation of any of the cyclic creations ( in the middle Temple period of the Hebrew religion there was during that period 2 18 feet tall statues male and female in connubial embrace in the Holies of Holies of the Second Temple, it is a similar metaphor but in the Hebrew form the female portrayed "Wisdom" as in the Gnostic Pistis Sophia. When the 3rd Temple period came to exist the "Idolatry" became forbidden and forever removed.
                         
                        >>> don't know what the ultimate bottom-line ethically is on
                        transplants. Occultly I have to think they are not good, but if a
                        loved one is involved that is a heck of a choice<<<
                         
                        My view is long ago in many cultures there were beliefs that the various organs of the body in actually possessed the Spiritual elements that composed the "economy of the Being", this was rigid view in it's days and more recently still taught  by the Rosecrucian Orders. Astrology also indicates this. But this is to my view only the enforced lower mantal computational under the dictate of the Conditioned Mind al la Patanjali. What the ethos is to me is correct recognition of the suffering of mankind and the cultivation of the Loving heart of Compassion in actions that alleviate, remit, heal, restore native original state as much as is possible form the virtue of Mercy which is a gradiant of Grace. Grace is the final 5th act of Shiva when we all are returned to Native State as Primary and no longer Secondary. Grace is the Will  (Iccha ). How can he claim spiritual estate if we demure to have no compassion in thought, word and deed?
                         
                        >>>Blavatsky mentions many places 3 more levels of elementals, to her
                        7 levels in manisfestation, for a total of 10 - however the metaphors
                        play out. And, it may be in HPB also, but Purucker mentions 12
                        levels, I believe, and the formation of manifestation on the model of
                        the dodecahedron, or 12-sided figure.<<<
                         
                        I defined what I indicated, I did not make mention of any elemental stratum. The Buddha also performed restraint on the subject of "Nirvana". There are 4 stages of Nirvana, in most  western countries they expound it is the blowing out of the candle and entails ultimate "extinction", a nihilistic false view. Like the Four Stages of the Arhat there are Four stages of Nirvana. anciently the axiomatic metaphor of Plato and others that God Geometrizes has long been a proclamation and teaching. but in the East there are stages beyond form, beyond mind, being beyond mind and form and in the realm of pure consciousness where has geometric context a habitat? Levels in any form imply matter/energy states even if most subtle in form or context which then constrains to the Illusionary Mayavic Projection in the reality of the Secondary World or manifesting Creation, all things in Secondary Creation are imperfect as requisite top being found there
                         
                        >>>I disagree with you that most people are good and that the
                        tendency of practical science is good.<<<
                         
                        What I call Man is the Pure Spirit that is resident, not the lower ego, the generated form or present context of matter form which has ego and conditioned mind. It is the Pure Spirit that is the Good. And it is LIFE that is Victorious (this life is not our possession or an object, it is the invincible intrinsic pervasive limitless Nature of the Causeless Cause in which like fish we have "participation" as "Unit of Awareness" unsullied and Primordial. All Mankind has Life that is inseparable and unity.
                         
                           I really don't understand how you can ignore the pain and suffering that is remised and relieved by current science. Madame Blavatsky did reviled science in some of her statements but in others she lauded science and used it to support her doctrine and views. Madame Blavatsky and Col. Olcutt also used the Telegram service from time to time which is a product of science, she and Olcutt also rode trains in india, ships on the wide oceans, carraiges drawn by horses and even oxen and Yaks which intelligence created that relieved the pain and suffering a good deal. If Blavatsky were alive today she for sure would be crossing the planet on Airbuses, riding Bullet trains, using Iphone and tablets. The idea that science is evil is a flawed theorem and a false teaching based on a false belief in Utopian wishes for imaginary "Paradises" that only existed in Religious Dogmas. Theosophy can never be leader of anything of value with that view. And has nothing to offer to the youth of the NOW with such attitudes. The truth is almost all the  people have zero awareness of 1 percent of Science in it's breath and depths and rely on ignorant computations of the conditioned mind.
                         
                        Many year ago here on this Forum when I had a different E-mail "Samblo@..." I poste about Ostriches with their heads buried deep in the sand of time and their tail feathers pointing at the sun in the desert with a gate that said "Theosophy" just a few feet from them, unable to enter because they refused to look at reality they never reached Theosophy. It seems it is still true today. how can any complain and fail to know why Theosophy is in steady decline???
                         
                        John
                         
                         
                         
                         
                        "rom:MarkJaqueail.com>
                        To: "theos-talk" <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 8:12:02 AM
                        Subject: theos-talk Re: Homo Erectus

                         

                        John,
                        Thanks for your comments on your perspective on things. 'As you
                        impled, this isn't an esoteric group, and people can think what they
                        wish. I think you should congratulate yourself, as being probably an
                        older geezer than me, and still being able to "head trip" on a zillion
                        different mental ramifications! ha 'rare!
                        My perspective is that all this and the infinite ramifications of
                        physical science is that it is all a mental Tableau, that the real
                        spiritual search is to find one's basis or get a foothold in one's
                        Essence superior in dimension to the mental tableau (which _I think_
                        is in the heart and not head) - which is all the "play of Siva", or
                        however that was put. I was once a good while ago trying to
                        understand Korzybski (?) the Linguist and his contortionist logical
                        analyses - and my head just sort of popped and I realized, for myself,
                        that it was all just a _level_ and all the logic had no ultimate end
                        or real answers, and it all just became nonsense at the extremes.
                        Blavatsky mentions many places 3 more levels of elementals, to her
                        7 levels in manisfestation, for a total of 10 - however the metaphors
                        play out. And, it may be in HPB also, but Purucker mentions 12
                        levels, I believe, and the formation of manifestation on the model of
                        the dodecahedron, or 12-sided figure.
                        Blavatsky's "Having fallen down in godliness they
                        mixed with animal races.." - "godliness" is just a metaphor of course
                        in limited western language, and she was trying to translate a real
                        manuscript (astral or not, I don't know). She certainly wasn't a
                        personal god proponent.
                        I don't know what the ultimate bottom-line ethically is on
                        transplants. Occultly I have to think they are not good, but if a
                        loved one is involved that is a heck of a choice......
                        I disagree with you that most people are good and that the
                        tendency of practical science is good. When push comes to shove the
                        tendencey of _most_ people is overwhelmingly still to the bad side of
                        things (and profit!). In the SD Dialogues (ULT) HPB says in her day
                        that people were much worse than in the worse and fabled Atlantean
                        days, and most of us haven't changed that much - although 'have to say
                        there are a heck of a lot! of people and small groups working out
                        there for altruistic purposes nowdays!
                        - jake j.


                        -------------
                        >1a. Re: Homo Erectus
                        Posted by: Augoeides-222@...
                        <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=Augoeides-222@...>
                        Date: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:37 am ((PDT))


                        >Jake,
                        > Thanks for you reply and comments. Everyone has the right to an opinion
                        , you have one, that is ok to me. I have also an opinion and reasons why
                        I think Biophotonic's are the true future. There is zero black magic to
                        the recognition of the Light, or the earth store house sutra of
                        Mahayana. The ancient Gnostics and Hebrew had doctrine on the "lost
                        sparks of light" , and the Gnostics also even though they did not have
                        cognizance of photons then. What they called Rays, Sparks,
                        scintillations etc are approximate to todays "photons" They also had
                        concept of the "Light Body". The Tibetans and Hindu have the belief in
                        the "Rainbow Body" There are many ways to approach new knowledge better
                        than condemnations without true knowledge or inspection. The Pistis
                        Sophia is an ancient Gnostic work that has some amount of discussion of
                        the Light. The ancient Mandeaens also taught the doctrine of the
                        light. The ancient Caduceus of the Greek and Egyptians were mimicry to
                        the double DNA helix of modern times. They worshiped the Sun as the
                        symbol of life and light. All Science is not evil, even if there are and
                        will be due to human error and conditioned mind offending actions of
                        science that happen it Is not true that all science is evil, left hand
                        path, dugpa, Atlantian, Lemurian or whatever. What precisely do any of
                        us really know about Atlantis or Lemuria that really exists? The
                        tradition about them is interesting, even stimulating but where is
                        reality of it? Only personal agreement that it once was and is not in
                        our now.


                        > There is a doctrine of the Eighth Consciousness that is beyond the
                        7th of Blavatsky in the Mahayana teaching, anyone can Google it. Gariaev
                        has not awareness of the 8th consciousness, the Store Consciousness.
                        Gariaev made mention that his Science Research Team at Russia's Academy
                        of Science had detected certain indications that there was a source of
                        oversight that had locality within the non-local Quantum Matrix
                        that monitored, managed, and supervised the process of the DNA-wave
                        communications from the cells and dna of all livings forms. He says they
                        do not know what exactly it is but it is there. Today there are new
                        evolutions of knowledge that are a new wave form as compared to
                        Blavatsky's time even though the discovery's of many of the current
                        major contributors of todays science were born before her in the century
                        she lived in.


                        > Maybe a softer way than efforts to read scientific articles is to
                        view some Google videos about the topic of Biophotonic matter and how
                        Light itself is responsible for life itself of living matter. The
                        ancient Mandeans always ended their teaching with the proclamation "The
                        Great Life is Victorious" , Blavatsky in her cosmology doctrine has
                        comment on Light and Life. How can anyone know truth relationally as the
                        true basis of things unless they learn and grow in knowledge. "I am the
                        Way - The Light - and the Truth" caused an major world religion to
                        appear. Light is Photons, Photons are what Purush seems to be, Purush is
                        a Logos, it is likely that the Vital body of Blavatsky, Vedanta, and
                        others is composed of Photons. The Photons act as "Units of awareness"
                        and messengers that provide the necessary information to effect the
                        primary management of life forms in universe.


                        > The reference to human-animal genetics is extraneous to all the
                        examples I gave, none exhibit any genetic attempts to immorally
                        co-combine humans and animals. I have read a great deal of what Gariaev
                        publishes online, not once does he ever mentions the word "Astral", in
                        fact I think it was not ever in his vocabulary and certainly not in the
                        usage of serious scientists in the discipline they practice. I indeed
                        tried to convey that what many generations of mankind have been
                        referring to as the astral "template" of gross human form or all forms
                        is indeed the findings of Gariaev, Popp, Jacques Benveniste where in
                        they all find an electromagnetic data template that possesses the
                        complete form information that renders a true bonifide copy of the
                        physical itself. In fact today Gariaev and others have successfully
                        restored organs of the human body that were dying by resending healthy
                        electromagnet data template information back into the organ and it does
                        "regenerate", it is documented and replicated. The information data
                        electromagnetic template exists in the "Non-local Quantum Matrix" in a
                        other dimensional reality and just like the astral performs similar
                        purpose and functions in unity with the "Photon" carriers that bridge
                        the dimensional interface.


                        >BTW, years ago I had experience to meet a certain individual that
                        claimed to be Lemurian who loved to related about how they performed
                        the combining of human-animal forms, giving as example the zoomorphic
                        forms of the Egyptian Diety and pantheons. Another item none of us has
                        ever seen in reality as living life forms in the here and now.


                        >"Having fallen down in godliness they
                        mixed with animal races.."


                        >My comment, the Mahatma's and Blavatsky state there is no God in their
                        doctrine of reality so please tell me where "fallen down in Godliness"
                        has any revenant reality in terms of Theosophical doctrine?


                        > I remember "Dolly" the sheep that was a genetic experiment, it failed
                        miserably and the Scientific Community so recognized it as a failed
                        science and still does today. I don't perceive a basis to be stiffly
                        paranoid that huge populations of various animal will be irrevocably
                        malformed forever in any significant degree.. I do have some
                        apprehensions but they are the ruler of my life nor will they become so.
                        There are always impediments to progress and stumbling blocks to
                        overcomes, condemning progress is immature, juvenile, and most short
                        sighted , dominated by subservience to the lower emotional body and
                        stimulated anxieties. I much rather search, seek find the successes of
                        Mankind that exhibits Freedom, Love, creativity, progress, expansion of
                        mind and understanding.


                        >I am not a young person also,and I remember the commotions when organ
                        transplants, artificial insemination, and all the rest came into our
                        "present Time" in which we have existence and life of the "NOW". And
                        Genetics also probably most notably the Nazi in WWII and their
                        "experiments". Life itself is the River of Universal Consciousness,
                        imperfection is a Transcen dent prerequisite for the Creations to have
                        appearance and due to that same "imperfection" as the very bedrock of
                        maintenance and continuation of the universes imperfect error exist and
                        the offending content has existence but to treat it a the dominant
                        percentile is in error and wrong. Man is basically GOOD. The 65 % of
                        Dark Energy and the 35 % Dark Matter is also Consciousness, granted it
                        is inter-dimensional but that does not communicate anything evil or
                        good. In Mahayana and all the past teachings the Decade is the
                        structural Frame. Blavatsky gave out the first 7 levels and withheld the
                        next 3. In Mahayana the last 3 are Storehouse 8th Consciousness, 9th
                        Consciousness - The Great Mirror Consciousness, and the 10th
                        Consciousness is the Causeless cause of causes, as found universally in
                        the ancient doctrine. The Pythagorians also employed the decade as did
                        the Greeks and Hebrew. I really cannot duplicate how Christian Doctrine
                        can be the fallback that reply's for Blavatsky or as support to
                        invalidate my stance, it is simply senseless. Only 5% of creation is the
                        matter, form that is perceptible to our organs of perception. The human
                        DNA operates only on less than 5 % of the DNA Genome. Sorry but
                        Blavatsky taught us to "TRY" to KNOW. Dumbing down people as policy is
                        the act of suppression and that is DUGPA and Left-hand Path. Blavatsky
                        predicts that we as mankind will transform into the 6th and 7th someday
                        in a future somewhere. I seriously doubt that can happen unless positive
                        change happens from second to second that effects transformation of all
                        the spectrum of Mankind's knowledge, capacities, faculties, knowledge,
                        sciences, abilities, consciousness, perceptions and awareness across the
                        entire periods of time until we become arrived to primal original
                        Nature. "Stopping" things
                        cannot cause evolution. The process is "Start- Change -Stop" form the
                        Macro to the Micro holistically.
                        > I have a neighbor who has a liver transplant, without it he would
                        have died many years ago. Tens of Thousands of Lives have been saved.
                        Millions of babies, children, women, men everywhere have had their
                        lives made more easy and livable and their suffering relieved as well as
                        their pain and torment as a direct result of Genetic Science.The guiding
                        IDEA is to BENEFIT MANKIND in my view. I don't have any interest in
                        fixing my perceptions on the negative philosophical distortions that
                        grab and seize and direct in a fixated manner on the bad ideas of
                        things, let us all look for the GOOD and cause disempowerment of the
                        negative which is a drug of mind and energy. We must create GOOD and see
                        potential GOOD as it comes to our awareness. Fixation is death and
                        stasis. Do not become frozen in time or moment or mind or Hamlets Mill
                        will grind you into flour and you will be recycled as bread to the
                        approaching generations.


                        >John


                        ----- Original Message -----


                        >From: "Mark Jaqua" <markrjaqua@...
                        <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=markrjaqua@...>>
                        To: "theos-talk" <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
                        <?&v=b&cs=wh&to=theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>>
                        Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 2:36:43 PM
                        Subject: theos-talk Re: Homo Erect


                        >I think where much of what modern science, especially biology,
                        et. al. and genetic research is going, Blavatsky would probably call
                        "black magic." I wrote an article about 35 years ago - "Doomsday,
                        Atlantis and Genetic Research" (TAT Journal, spring, 1979 - probably
                        still online) which I skimmed over again, and I can't believe that I
                        still think it is pretty much right-on. (please pardon the preening
                        feathers) Here's a quote on Blavatsky:


                        >"Madame Blavatsky, in The Secret Doctrine (published in 1888), has
                        some intriguing things to say about the Atlanteans. She claims that
                        they "breeded with animals" which brought about biological
                        monstrosities and the wrath of Nature. Since impregnation of animals
                        by men seems biologically impossible, this myth could be an allegory
                        concerning recombinant DNA experiments by the Atlanteans. In the
                        ancient Tibetan manuscript, The Stanzas of Dzyan, Blavatsky quotes a
                        reference to the Atlanteans: "Having fallen down in godliness they
                        mixed with animal races... Many acquired Divine, more - UNLAWFUL
                        knowledge, and followed willingly the LEFT PATH." (15) If you can
                        interpret the arcane language, "mixing with animals" could refer to
                        genetic experiments, and the "LEFT PATH" would be interpreted as the
                        "path" of utilitarian and material values. In another place in The
                        Secret Doctrine Blavatsky relates an Indian myth about the lost land
                        of "Mu" where "The great lords each had their speaking beast... " -
                        The Secret Doctrine, Volume II, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky,
                        Theosophical University Press, Pasadena, California, p. 331.


                        >"Fohat" some years back had an article on the occult aspects of
                        organ transplants, which I still remember, so it must have been pretty
                        good.


                        >Part of what John says is probably true, but I think he is way,
                        way, way over-optimistic. All this biological research on the
                        _physical level_ is bound to end with infinite divisibility - just as
                        Blavatsky said the physical atom was "infinitely divisible" which
                        seems to be proving to be so. It all leads to tremendous hubris.


                        >Gariaev does seem to have an intuition of the "astral patterns"
                        for evolution Blavatsky refers to where he says:


                        >".....that there is something beyond the DNA, something which informs
                        the DNA factory how to make its constructions." - Peter Gariaev


                        >I gave up trying to comprehend this science stuff 20 years
                        ago and believe it is a dead end always - spiritually speaking, and it
                        makes me dispair. But for those who can get something out of it -
                        great for them, and theosophy needs the appropriate supportive data.


                        >- jake j.


                        ------------------



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