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HPB's COLL. WRITINGS Vol. 14 heavily dependent on Besant's SD III

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  • Daniel
    HPB s COLL. WRITINGS Vol. 14 heavily dependent on Besant s SD III ... Unfortunately, there is still confusion and misinformation circulating about this subject
    Message 1 of 2 , Aug 16, 2013
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      HPB's COLL. WRITINGS Vol. 14 heavily dependent on Besant's SD III

      ----------------

      Unfortunately, there is still confusion and misinformation
      circulating about this subject on the internet.

      Below are the FACTS.

      In the 1897 edition of Volume III of THE SECRET DOCTRINE,
      there are (excluding H.P.B.'s esoteric papers at
      the back of this volume), 52 sections (or chapters)
      covering 432 pages of text.

      40 of these sections or chapters of the SD Vol. III were SIMPLY
      transferred by Mr. Boris de Zirkoff into HPB's COLLECTED WRITINGS
      (most of them into Vol. XIV).

      It should be clearly stated here that the ONLY EXISTING copies of
      these 40 sections are the printed version found in SD Vol. III.

      Mr. de Zirkoff had NO OTHER versions of these 40 sections to rely on
      or work with.

      Furthermore, these 40 sections constitute more than 300 pages of the
      text of SD III.

      For the remaining 12 sections of SD III which have corresponding
      text in the EARLIER Wurzburg manuscript, Mr. de Zirkoff and his team
      compared the two sets of text, etc. and then decided what to publish
      in the COLLECTED WRITINGS.

      IN SUMMARY:

      Mr. de Zirkoff transferred into the COLLECTED WRITINGS volumes (most
      of it into Volume XIV) these hundreds of pages of text DIRECTLY FROM
      Annie Besant's Vol. III.

      In other words, COLLECTED WRITINGS, Vol. 14 is heavily DEPENDENT on
      Annie Besant's 3rd Volume.

      Daniel
      BLAVATSKY STUDY CENTER
      http://blavatskyarchives.com
      http://theosophy.info

      ========================================================
      "...none but the logician, the investigator, the dauntless
      explorer should meddle with books like this. Such delvers
      after truth have the courage of their opinions."
      H.P. Blavatsky

      "...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at
      their right value; and unless a judge compares notes and
      hears both sides he can hardly come to a correct decision."
      H.P. Blavatsky

      "...in the world mental as in the world spiritual each man
      must progress by his own efforts. The writer cannot do the
      reader's thinking for him, nor would the latter be any the
      better off if such vicarious thought were possible..."
      H.P. Blavatsky
      =======================================================
    • M. Sufilight
      Dear Daniel My views are: Mr. Boris de Zirkoff wrote quoting from the Lucifer journal: Although not published until 1897, the preparation of this Volume had
      Message 2 of 2 , Aug 16, 2013
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        Dear Daniel

        My views are:


        Mr. Boris de Zirkoff wrote quoting from the Lucifer journal:
        "Although not published until 1897, the preparation of this Volume had been going on for some years previous to this date, as appears, for instance, from a statement in the January, 1894, issue of Lucifer (Vol. XIII, p. 354), to the effect that “...the third volume of The Secret Doctrine is being typewritten from the MS.”....."

        ...and then he continues...

        "The first pages of this Volume went to the printer around June, 1895,* and the Volume seems to have been completed in September, 1896, although its actual publication had to wait until the American edition, “necessitated by the unfair copyright law,” could be made ready also.†

        A careful analysis of the contents of this Volume discloses a number of interesting facts.

        Pages 433-594 consist of:

        a) The text of the Esoteric Instructions issued privately by H. P. B. herself to the pledged disciples of the Esoteric School. This text is incomplete, however, and considerably edited.‡

        b) The text of the Notes taken by various students at the meetings of H.P.B.’s Inner Group. These Notes are heavily edited, and very considerably altered, as comparison with the most complete version of the same Notes, that of Mrs. Alice Leighton Cleather, would easily show.

        These Instructions and Notes were given under a solemn pledge of secrecy which was blatantly violated by their

        ––––––––––
        * Lucifer, Vol. XVI, June, 1895, p. 271.
        † Lucifer, Vol. XIX, September, 1896, p. 81.
        ‡ [See B.C. W., Vol. XII, pp. 488-511 for the complete unedited text.]
        An exhaustive discussion of these Notes in their historical background may be found in The Theosophical Forum, Point Loma, California, Vols. XVI, XVII and XVIII, April to December, 1940, and January to April, 1941, under the title “ Leaves of Theosophical History.”
        ––––––––––


        Page xxvii

        publication. Besides, as appears quite plainly from G. R. S. Mead’s own explanation, their text was added to this volume as mere padding, to increase its size.†"

        .......
        "––––––––––
        † The Occult Review, London, May 1927."


        ....... and more until we read the following.......


        As a matter of fact, C. Jinarâjadâsa started publishing the First Draft, from the Adyar Archives, in the pages of The Theosophist,* with the declared intention of issuing it later in book-form. However, the series was discontinued after a while, the given reason for so doing being the “chaotic” nature of the manuscript, in the use of capitals, dashes and quotation marks, and the difficulties encountered in deciphering Hebrew and Greek scripts, which the amanuensis who copied H. P. B. ‘s original manuscript probably did not know."
        http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v14/ph_036.htm


        ###
        My view is: Now, it must be clear, that the reason given in the latter paragraph in the above in it self would make the Wurzburg volume of the SD very invalid indeed for publishing in its old form. (We can only await a release from TS Adyar of this manuscript in facsimile on the Internet.) And we may wonder whether the MSS for the Third volume left by Blavatsky when she died in May 1891 was of the same "chaotic" nature. And then be can only question whether Annie Besant (hardly clairvoyant at the time, according to some sources) did a proper job on third volume.

        The above link by Mr. Boris de Zirkoff is in fact interesting reading, as well as the words given by you Daniel in the pages linked in this link: http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/sdiiipt1.htm
        ###


        .......

        And we read more in the link with words by mr. Boris de Zirkoff :
        "Our perplexities are further increased by the interesting fact that on October 6, 1926, Mr. William Mulliss, Managing Editor of the Hamilton Spectator (Ontario, Canada), a competent reporter and for ten years an earnest student of The Secret Doctrine, interviewed Annie Besant in Los Angeles, California, on behalf of several newspapers. His inquiries related in part to the question of a Third Volume presumed to have existed at one time or another. We quote from the complete verbatim report of the interview:
        Mr. Mulliss: Your critics have insisted that somebody or other has deliberately suppressed the Third and Fourth Volumes of The Secret Doctrine to which H. P. B. makes reference in the First Volume of The Secret Doctrine. What have you to say of this ? Do you regard the Third Volume of your edition of The Secret Doctrine entitled ‘Occultism’ as containing any of the matter intended for the Third and the Fourth Volumes?

        “Mrs. Annie Besant: I was appointed H. P. B.’S literary executor, and the matter from which I compiled the Third Volume of ‘Occultism’ in The Secret Doctrine, published under my direction was compiled from a mass of miscellaneous writings found in her desk after her death. These I took under my own charge.

        “Mr. Mullis: Did Mead help you in the compilation of these articles?

        “Mrs. A. Besant: No. The papers came absolutely under my own hand and Mead had nothing to do with them.

        “Mr. Mulliss: Well what about the material for the Third and Fourth Volumes?

        “Mrs. A. Besant: I never saw them and do not know what has become of them.”......."



        ###
        I am saying:
        First Annie Besant says, that the material for the Third volume had existed. And that she do not know where the material is and that she had not seen it (!!!)

        This material (ie. especially most of the BCW vol. XIV articles) do exist today in the handwritten version. But where is it, in TS Adyar(?), and will anyone put it online in a fascimile version?

        How very interesting. It seems that Mead or more likely Bertram Keightley and his brother must have removed the MSS to the Third volume of the SD before Annie Besant got near it. This might also explain the comment by Mead later in 1927 about the Third Volume of the SD by Besant, published 1897.

        Because th whole MSS for the Third volume of the SD was claimed ready in one version in July 1889.

        And Charles Ryan's words:
        "Dr Archibald Keightley, one of H. P. Blavatsky's closest friends, writes in a letter to The New York Times and quoted in The Theosophist, July 1889, describing her activities in London:
        The third volume of The Secret Doctrine is in MS ready to be given to the printers. The fourth volume, which is to be largely hints on the subject of practical Occultism, has been outlined but not yet written . . . the actual work of writing will not be commenced until we are about ready to bring it forth."

        http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/forum/f23n03p97_some-notes-on-the-secret-doctrine.htm

        The above words by Keightley do not fit well with the words by Annie Besant in the above.

        It clearly seems that the Wurzburg manuscript was edited later on by HPB before the third volume was ready in July 1889 as mentioned by Archibald Keightley. Later we read from other letters that this MSS apparently needed even more editing, for 12 months more(!!!), for some unknown reason or another before the Third Volume could be published. We may wonder why, and whether Archibald Keightley said something which he aught not to have said? Was it merely a question of avoiding to publish it before Blavatsky her self deliberately decieded to leave her physical body as a part of an "esoteric Design" or an "act" so to teach another lesson about how human life operate in this part of our universe?
        ###



        Any comments?







        M. Sufilight





        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Daniel
        To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 10:19 AM
        Subject: theos-talk HPB's COLL. WRITINGS Vol. 14 heavily dependent on Besant's SD III



        HPB's COLL. WRITINGS Vol. 14 heavily dependent on Besant's SD III

        ----------------

        Unfortunately, there is still confusion and misinformation
        circulating about this subject on the internet.

        Below are the FACTS.

        In the 1897 edition of Volume III of THE SECRET DOCTRINE,
        there are (excluding H.P.B.'s esoteric papers at
        the back of this volume), 52 sections (or chapters)
        covering 432 pages of text.

        40 of these sections or chapters of the SD Vol. III were SIMPLY
        transferred by Mr. Boris de Zirkoff into HPB's COLLECTED WRITINGS
        (most of them into Vol. XIV).

        It should be clearly stated here that the ONLY EXISTING copies of
        these 40 sections are the printed version found in SD Vol. III.

        Mr. de Zirkoff had NO OTHER versions of these 40 sections to rely on
        or work with.

        Furthermore, these 40 sections constitute more than 300 pages of the
        text of SD III.

        For the remaining 12 sections of SD III which have corresponding
        text in the EARLIER Wurzburg manuscript, Mr. de Zirkoff and his team
        compared the two sets of text, etc. and then decided what to publish
        in the COLLECTED WRITINGS.

        IN SUMMARY:

        Mr. de Zirkoff transferred into the COLLECTED WRITINGS volumes (most
        of it into Volume XIV) these hundreds of pages of text DIRECTLY FROM
        Annie Besant's Vol. III.

        In other words, COLLECTED WRITINGS, Vol. 14 is heavily DEPENDENT on
        Annie Besant's 3rd Volume.

        Daniel
        BLAVATSKY STUDY CENTER
        http://blavatskyarchives.com
        http://theosophy.info

        ========================================================
        "...none but the logician, the investigator, the dauntless
        explorer should meddle with books like this. Such delvers
        after truth have the courage of their opinions."
        H.P. Blavatsky

        "...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at
        their right value; and unless a judge compares notes and
        hears both sides he can hardly come to a correct decision."
        H.P. Blavatsky

        "...in the world mental as in the world spiritual each man
        must progress by his own efforts. The writer cannot do the
        reader's thinking for him, nor would the latter be any the
        better off if such vicarious thought were possible..."
        H.P. Blavatsky
        =======================================================





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