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Re: theos-talk Early TS plans

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  • Ramanujachary nallanchakravarti
    The Objects are concurrent in function, as also the varous plans. Making a distinction as More and Less important is not an intelligent way of looking at them.
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 1, 2013
      The Objects are concurrent in function, as also the varous plans. Making a distinction as More and Less important is not an intelligent way of looking at them. While the first object 'to form a nucleus of Universal Brotherhood of Humanity' cannot be fulfilled without the second and third objects necessarily ensuing it. If I do not work for UBH then I need not bother about finding out the truth through the common approach of Comparative religion/ Science/Philosophy or Exploring into Man and Nature.
       Many members, unfortunately,  feel that verbal acceptance of the first object is enough and adequate. Verbal  accepance is no acceptance. Acceptance is not what is demanded. It is "Forming" in his own heart. Once this is done, one cannot do anything wrong or harmful to other creatures and nature. It is something like saying : Fill your heart with Love and do whatever you want to. Once the heart is filled with love can one err? We are too often satisfied with half-truths, which way is no good.
      Drilling the ideas/ concepts/ principles and attempting them to be explained rationally to the masses/ general public and making them see the 'reason for themselves the need for right behavior' is what is expected of the theosophists. This is what HPB did all her time.Literature is for Portrayal of Philosophic Ideas.Dr N C Ramanujachary(Srivirinchi)Besant Gardens, The Theosophical Society, Adyar, Chennai 600 020 Phone: 044/24913584, Mobile: 9444963584From: ".:." <mkr777@...>Sent: Mon, 01 Jul 2013 20:14:08 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: theos-talk Early TS plans 



      Thanks for the post. Frequently, visiting early publications throw light onthe more important than the less important objectives. Looks like somewhere along the way the priorities got mixed up and no wonder that we haveshrinking membership world-wide. Also today we have the invaluable tool ofInternet which seems to be ignored by the leaders - may be they are unableto understand its power and effectiveness. Unless we work for the welfareand good of the masses, how can we expect help from Nature.*MKR*On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Mark Jaqua <hozro@...> wrote:> **>>> I thought the following excerpt by Malpas from an early 1880 TS flyer in> India was interesting about the early plans of the Society. Item (e)> indicates a commercial and very practical level effort to better people's> lives, as well as the promotion of non-Sectarian Education in item (f) also> mentioned in "Key to Theosophy.">> "Some Theosophical Plans>> - P. A. Malpas>> "It is interesting to look back over the years and compare plans with> their fulfilment. We were lately reading an old announcement dated some> thirty-two years ago. It is a document printed and published in India> shortly after the Society had sent its delegates from New York to that> country to establish the Theosophical work there. The title is> 'Theosophical Society or Universal Brotherhood.'>> "Mention is made of "the plans of the Society," and these plans are> declared, among other things, to be:>> "' (a) To keep alive in man his belief that he has a soul....>> (b) To oppose and counteract bigotry in every form....>> (c) To gather for the Society's Library and to put into written form> correct information upon the various philosophies, traditions, and> legends....>> (d) To seek to obtain knowledge of all the laws of nature and aid in> diffusing it, thus to encourage the study of those laws least understood by> modern people.... Popular superstition and folklore, however fantastical,> when sifted may sometimes lead to the discovery of long-lost but important> secrets of Nature. The Society, therefore, aims to pursue that line of> inquiry in the hope to widen the field of scientific and philosophical> observation.>> (e) To promote a feeling of Brotherhood among nations, and assist in the> international exchange of useful arts and products.>> (f) To promote in every practicable way, in countries where needed, the> spread of non-sectarian Western education, and chiefly, to encourage and> assist individual Fellows in self-improvement, intellectual, moral, and> spiritual.'>> " It is curious to observe in face of the above, that from time to time> strange notions have been set afloat as to the aims and plans of the> original fountainhead and Founder of the Society, Madame H.P. Blavatsky.> Perhaps the strangest part, assuming no malicious misinterpretation, is the> way in which a few seemingly sensible people came to believe (or professed> to believe) queer ideas, such for instance as that lack of ethics,> dogmatism, and an aversion to the practical work of Brotherhood, are> compatible with those plans......">> (Theosophical Path, Vol. 2, no. 6, June, 1912, pp. 393-94)>> ------------------->> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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    • Ramanujachary nallanchakravarti
      There is practically no difference. When you say first step and later keen observers all good flowsout of it .Literature is for Portrayal of Philosophic
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 1, 2013
        There is practically no difference. When you say 'first step' and later'keen observers' all 'good flowsout of it'.Literature is for Portrayal of Philosophic Ideas.Dr N C Ramanujachary(Srivirinchi)Besant Gardens, The Theosophical Society, Adyar, Chennai 600 020 Phone: 044/24913584, Mobile: 9444963584From: ".:." <mkr777@...>Sent: Tue, 02 Jul 2013 11:28:41 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: theos-talk Early TS plans 



        I have a slightly different take on this.First step is the verbal acceptance. Once this happens, there seems to be achemistry that follows. In many cases, when we take actions, this principlecomes to our mind. Also it is likely that at the back our mind thisprincple keeps working. As time goes one, the automatic application of thisprinciple in many of our daily activities takes place even withoutdeliberately thinking about it. Also in due course putting the principle inpractice brings happiness and joy to us and in time it becomes a part ofus. It also becomes contagious and we affect others as well without theireven being aware of it.As many teachers have said, if we become keen observers, we will be able toobserve all the good that flows out of it.MKROn Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Ramanujachary nallanchakravarti <srivirinchi@...> wrote:> Many members, unfortunately, feel that verbal acceptance of the first> object is enough and adequate. Verbal acceptance is no acceptance.> Acceptance is not what is demanded.*MKR*[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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      • Ramanujachary nallanchakravarti
        Organization is as important as the philosophy that it attempts to promote/popularize. There can be no second opinion on this. Organizational structure has a
        Message 3 of 3 , Jul 3, 2013
          Organization is as important as the philosophy that it attempts to promote/popularize. There can be no second opinion on this.
          Organizational structure has a "Basic" character. One may in later years change certain rules and regulations; and yet the "Basic Structure" of the Organization cannot be downplayed or substituted. If this is done, the Original purpose of the established organization vanishes.
          It is also true that an Organization has invariably certain inherent disabilities, mainly because of the human nature and its failure in appreciation and application. Constant effort is to see that the organizational stucture will not fall into a pit because of the inherent disabilities.
          Altruism, Compassion, Unity, Brotherhood are such terms in Literature (philosophy) that do not change day after day. They stem from the basic idea of 'collecting the laws of nature that govern the universe and to diffuse them'..Literature is for Portrayal of Philosophic Ideas.Dr N C Ramanujachary(Srivirinchi)Besant Gardens, The Theosophical Society, Adyar, Chennai 600 020 Phone: 044/24913584, Mobile: 9444963584From: "M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@...>Sent: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 21:03:33 To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: theos-talk Early TS plans 



          Dear CassMy views are:I am not sure I understand this short formulated question and the aggreesive tone of voice in your formulation.I would ask: If looking at past literary output is not unimportant, how can past organizational output, formulations and facts be unimportant unless one seek to think along sectarian lines in stead of non-sectarian lines, organizationally, where the latter clearly is better at promulgating altruism for humanity - compared to organizational sectarian bias?Organizational structures are not unimportant when one seek to promulgate altruism for the sake of all humanity. And I hold it ethically to be a mistake to think otherwise. And to think that the original organizational structure of the Theosophical Society in 1875-1891 (when the Co-Founders still lived) at all cost be completely disregarded (without explaining why) when we in our present hours seek to promulgate altruism and a Universal Brotherhood of Humanity - claimed - to be based on the SAME original Theosophical Society - is as far as I am concerned not an expression of wisdom. These are however of course only my views. If others disagree on this, they could kindly and in the name of compassion tell the readers about it.There has not been anyone claiming any - stabbing - going on, this aggressive word seem only to be coming from you Cass. I see no reason to plaster other persons with bad intentions based on no documentation what so ever. I could well meanningly and kindly suggest, that you seek to be more altruisitic in your formulation and seek to at least elaborate a bit more on what you actually ask about, giving me and others a chance to understand what your question is all about.Yet, misunderstandings seem to occur, when on exchange using physical words on a forum.All the above are merely my views.M. Sufilight----- Original Message ----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 2:41 AMSubject: Re: theos-talk Early TS plansWho stabbed who in the back really has nothing to do with the teachings?Cass________________________________From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@...>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2013 1:52 AMSubject: Re: theos-talk Early TS plansDear Cass and all readersMy views are:I tend to disagree with you on this Cass. (If you are right, why should anyone then read the writings of the early theosophists?) And I think you perhaps misunderstand, what the focus of my exchange in thsi thread is all about.Some people learn from the past, others do not. It seems.If you have it as your objects to promulgate altruism and an Universal Brotherhood along the lines and as well as objects given in the Theosophical Society, then I think it is ethically quite important that you are aquainted with the original intention behind the Theosophical Society as it was given by the Co-Founders, and seek to avoid jumping to fast conclusions based on insufficient data with regard to whether the present day Theosophical Society still follow the same concepts and objects organizationally speaking - or do not follow them. With other words it cannot be unimportant if the Theosophical Society has deteriorated - ethically - in its original objects and organizational concepts. And it cannot be unimportant to understand the original intention with the Theosophical Society. These are my views.There are however also those who prefer to remain ignorant about the facts related to the clear deviations from the original lines and objects of the Theosophical Society as they were given by the main Co-Founders - and - remain ignorant about the ethical implications such deviations actually have had or still have for the Theosophical Society - and - even related theosophical organizations.The truth about almost all major well known organizations of the past originally based on altruism is that they began and started out with a genuine good and ethical idea and concept organizationally speaking - and - later they almost all of them have deteriorated into exoteric materialism or bigotted sectarianism or worse, more or less. Let us seek to avoid the same happen with the Theospohical Society, - and avoid it in all respects.One major reason being that the difference and ethical importance about the difference - between an absolutly non-sectarian organization - and - a sectarian organization has not been understood, or has been misunderstood. And still is being misunderstood. At least it seems so.Others of course prefer to consider altruism unimportant.Then the Theosphical Society as given in its original formulation is not for them.All the above are just my views, seeking to promulgate altruism, non-sectarian altruism. And I will heartily welcome any well meant improvements upon them.M. Sufilight----- Original Message ----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 1:13 AMSubject: Re: theos-talk Early TS plansIsn't it time we all let the past go? What happened happened and there's very little we can do about events that occured before our existence.Cass________________________________From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@...>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2013 12:50 AMSubject: Re: theos-talk Early TS plansDear Mark and all readersMy views are:Yes. But these plans or perhaps rather objects was clearly changed in the year 1888 by the Theosophical Society, and supported by the three Co-Founders - H. S. Olcott, H. P. Blavatsky and W. Q. Judge. This happened, as written, because of the growth of the Society and other reasons, ethical reasons.I have shown this recently on this forum in the following post:The Dec. 1888 CONVENTION of the THEOSPOHICAL SOCIETY http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/60258(June 17th, 2013)And also here:Some Comments on Esoteric within Exoteric http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/60262(June 20th, 2013)M. Sufilight----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Jaqua To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 3:54 PMSubject: theos-talk Early TS plansI thought the following excerpt by Malpas from an early 1880 TS flyer in India was interesting about the early plans of the Society. Item (e) indicates a commercial and very practical level effort to better people's lives, as well as the promotion of non-Sectarian Education in item (f) also mentioned in "Key to Theosophy.""Some Theosophical Plans - P. A. Malpas"It is interesting to look back over the years and compare plans with their fulfilment. We were lately reading an old announcement dated some thirty-two years ago. It is a document printed and published in India shortly after the Society had sent its delegates from New York to that country to establish the Theosophical work there. The title is 'Theosophical Society or Universal Brotherhood.'"Mention is made of "the plans of the Society," and these plans are declared, among other things, to be: "' (a) To keep alive in man his belief that he has a soul....(b) To oppose and counteract bigotry in every form....(c) To gather for the Society's Library and to put into written form correct information upon the various philosophies, traditions, and legends....(d) To seek to obtain knowledge of all the laws of nature and aid in diffusing it, thus to encourage the study of those laws least understood by modern people.... Popular superstition and folklore, however fantastical, when sifted may sometimes lead to the discovery of long-lost but important secrets of Nature. The Society, therefore, aims to pursue that line of inquiry in the hope to widen the field of scientific and philosophical observation.(e) To promote a feeling of Brotherhood among nations, and assist in the international exchange of useful arts and products.(f) To promote in every practicable way, in countries where needed, the spread of non-sectarian Western education, and chiefly, to encourage and assist individual Fellows in self-improvement, intellectual, moral, and spiritual.'" It is curious to observe in face of the above, that from time to time strange notions have been set afloat as to the aims and plans of the original fountainhead and Founder of the Society, Madame H.P. Blavatsky. Perhaps the strangest part, assuming no malicious misinterpretation, is the way in which a few seemingly sensible people came to believe (or professed to believe) queer ideas, such for instance as that lack of ethics, dogmatism, and an aversion to the practical work of Brotherhood, are compatible with those plans......"(Theosophical Path, Vol. 2, no. 6, June, 1912, pp. 393-94)-------------------[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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