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Re: theos-talk the coming of the torch-bearer of truth.....

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  • Duane Carpenter
    Excellent commentary and analyses John with your usual depth of wisdom and keen insight. I could not agree more. Best Duane From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 14, 2012
      Excellent commentary and analyses John with your usual depth of wisdom and keen insight.
      I could not agree more.
      Best Duane


      From: "Augoeides-222@..." <Augoeides-222@...>
      To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 7:01 PM
      Subject: Re: theos-talk the coming of the torch-bearer of truth.....


       


      Morten,

         I f you read what I posted you must see that I didn't say Theosophy was a Masonic Organization only that the ideal of,  Brotherhood
      , and the study of comparitive religion, research into Psychic Phoenomena, and the dictum that a Brother of the Lodge of Masons not accuse another Brother. These are the same in my point of view both in Theosophy and Masonic Lodges. and that doesn't mean I agree to all that either lol. The Masons in order to gain certification for each of th degree's must study and master certain materials cogent to what that degree inculcates and in doing so they gain a certain knowledge of the metaphysical universe, the psychic reality, the virtues, character, and spiritual grounding, BTW, the 33 partition robe of a Tripitaka Master is called the "Host Robe" I gues i try to see a ggod occur in people even if somewhere in the past their karma had a bad result. Solve et Coagula.

       Madame Blavatsky held a Honorific Masonic Title given from a Masonic Order. Annie Besant and Leadbeater both are shown in photographs wearing their Masonic regalia as well as Madame Blavatsky and there were many others also . That doesn't necessarily mean to me that Theosophy is in fact a Masonic child.

      Madame Blavatsky in her writtings made mention that there were 3 very ancient Masonic "Invisible" Lodges unknown to the outer world. One in Britian, one in france and the oldest in India. She alluded that even the regular order of Masonic Lodges were ignorant of thier existance. So due to her words I don't feel any compulsion to view the Masons as a recent phoenomena and I trust Blavatsky.

      For many years you seem to indulge in a hate campaign against Christianity, the Jesuits, the Pope, the Catholics which you seem to think is a proper continuation of your interpretation of Madame Blavatskys message in the 1875-91 period. I never found any affinity for that view or purpose line and always find better things to do with my mind and time. I don't see any gain for Theosophy to be made by alienating, insulting, offending, devalueing, smearing, a very large percentile of the worlds people, most of Europe. Noirth America, South America, Australia etc. Rather I think that action would only promote the shrinkage of the already miniscual Theosophical world population.

      I when first becoming aware of the Theosophical Society was very much impressed by the fact that is was sectarian and had the porpose of universal suffrage of all comers without regards to their beliefs or religions and saw that it was one of the hallmarks of the then Theosophical Society to be shown photographs of crowds of diverse Hindu Fakirs, Yogin, Jains, Brahmans, Saivites, and many other types if differentiations all together with the hated English and Europeans with happiness and smiles upon their faces which seemd to indicate a progress towards Brotherhood rather than away from it.

       When I look at the world of the now I see hundreds of hundreds of all types of organizations attempting to alieve the human suffering and starvation and misery many are Catholic, Christian, Governmental, State, City, County ,of all nationalities and types of outreach groups some only exist foe a few days other for longer periods, other permanent. People are basically good, reflective of the self nature of beingness. I don't think the world of today is the world of the of the past there has been much reformation and maturation and felicity of our humanity. iconsider it silly to evne entertain a world without religion based on the current consciousness of th general population on planet Earth, if it were stripped en toto today by morning the world would be in chaos. The admixtures of the 7-fold economy of being is not consistent, homogeneus, or uniform. There must be some modulation of the horses of the chariot lest they all run amuck.

      John

      ----- Original Message -----
       

      From: "M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@...>
      To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 11:22:03 AM
      Subject: Re: theos-talk the coming of the torch-bearer of truth.....

       

      Dear John and friends

      My views are:

      I see.
      We obvoiusly disagree about various things. I do not mind that. We might learn from each other despite this....Do you not think so?

      But let us seek to keep the focus...
      I think we can agree upon that the Theosophical Society was not a Masonry organisation - from the begining in 1875 - not in any - ordinary - known sense of the word - when we compare it to modern Fremasonry or any kind of Western Masonry. Or do you think something else?
      That was my main point with my previous post or email.

      If you disagree on this, it is of course your choice. I will then eagerly like to know where - precisely - the documentation are for such a claim?
      I think I have shown it to be something else in my previous post.

      I have seen your links - but do not have time to read them all at the moment.

      M. Sufilight

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Augoeides-222@...
      To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 5:36 PM
      Subject: Re: theos-talk the coming of the torch-bearer of truth.....

      Morten,

      I posted information you can accept or reject as you preferr. Morten I don't accept the position about hte Jesuits as the original culprits behind the "33" degree's of the Masons which you regard as origin of the "33". The Buddhists have 33 Heavens. The Tripitaka Masters of the Mahayana Ch'an wear the 33 partitioned robe which indictated the attainment level of the Trip[ataka Masters. The entry level Monk wear a robe having 1 partition. There are other ancient "33" correlates found in comparitive studies ;ilke the 33 Aeons of Valentinus and early Gnostic/Christian Bishop whose break away Gnoctic Sect threatened to overwhelm by membership the early Catholic Church. Read G. R. S. Mead's Fragments of a Faith Forgotten. John Dee who served the Crown of Britain also had his own version of 33 Aeons he used associated with invocations of denizens of the universe. I also reject your assumption about Jo shua ben Pandera being factual, Mead reads it otherwise in
      his "Did Jesus live 100 B.C.?". you use the viscious story used by both the Roma ns and Jews as a me ans to devalue and mock and ridicule the Jesus legend for thei r own purposes of self preservation. You use it for mean reasons of your own. My personal view is radical to many of the views. My view places a good deal more importance to the ancient M andaeans of Iraq, John th e Baptist (Brother of J esus) was the E lder of the Mandaeans, The T ita l of the M andaean Elder was "Nazi". The Mandaeans were the "Nazareans", Jesus was a Nazarean ie, a M andaean. Why? Becau se no city named Nazareth existed then at the time of the life time of Jesus in the place the biblical story pla ces it so he could not have lived there or be born there becau se it didn't exist at the time he lived. But the Templars told of the mysterious "Prester John" whom they received their secret doctrine from, it was the secret teaching of the M andaean. Jesus was bap tised at the
      Jordan River by John the Baptist. The mandaeans in the cold winter of iraq traveled to the Jordan for warmer temperatures, Jesus went to his Bother John , the E lder of the M andaeans to receive Initiation of the baptism of W ater, there being 4 spiritual viscosity or densities which also align to the acient traditions everywhere. W ater, Wine , Blood and Oil, so J esus in the biblical construct changes W ater into Wine, sh eds his Blood and is the Anointed One as initiate. Also there is an ancie nt connection thread going back to before the 1st Dynastys of Egypt focusing about Adams son Seth that travels into the Mandaeans also.

      The 33 heavens of the Gods - Trayastrimsas

      >>> http://www.tientai.net/teachings/dharma/6realms/33gods.htm <<<

      The Realm of Heaven Map

      >>> http://www.tientai.net/teachings/dharma/6realms/heavenmap.htm <<<

      Vedic Gods and Goddesses

      >>> http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/vedicgods.asp <<<

      Mandaean History --- In the name of the Great Life

      >>> http://mandaean_canadians.webs.com/mandaeanhistory.htm <<<

      The Heavenly Twin in the mandaean Gnosis

      >>> http://weblog.bergersen.net/terje/archives/001127.html <<<

      The Man of Light in the Iranian Sufism

      >>> http://books.google.com/books?id=JE89AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=mshunia+kushta&source=web&ots=cPMtYL4mn7&sig=KcI-02RdVWIGnR8MSWKjjxkYP3w&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result

      The Secret Adam -- A study of Nazoraean Gnosis

      >>> http://weblog.bergersen.net/terje/archives/001053.html <<<

      Lady Ethel Stefana Drower The Principal Author on the Mandaeans (who was very much like H. P. B. in many ways)

      >>> http://books.google.com/books?q=Lady+Ethel+Stefana+Drower&btnG=Search+Books <<<

      On the Jain - The Kalpa Sutra and Nava Tattva (the Pre-buddhist Bodhists)

      >>> http://books.google.com/books?id=yaJtAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=kalpa+sutra&hl=en&sa=X&ei=T4IQT-njA6KkiQK-3-XPDQ&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=kalpa%20sutra&f=false <<<

      Regards,

      John

      ----- Original Message -----

      From: "M. Sufilight" < global-theosophy@... >
      To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 2:55:42 AM
      Subject: Re: theos-talk the coming of the torch-bearer of truth.....

      Dear John and friends

      My views are:

      Yes. I also appreciate the effort by Daniel and others on his website, although I sometimes question myself where the aim with that website actually is compared to what Blavatsky herself taught - with regard to altruism and all that....smile.

      A few questions araise in my mind.
      If I may...?

      John wrote:
      "The three objects that Morten assigns exclusively to Theosophy actually were pick me ups from the Masonic Dogma and can be forund in Morals and dogma, I oten wondered why none have pointed that out for over 11 yars that I have been sitting here reading lol."

      M. Sufilight says:
      May I ask, what objects are you referring to? If, it is the Objects of the Consitution and Rules of the Theosophical Society - then I ask from what year do they originate in the TS?
      And what Masonic dogma are you referring to - there are many branches of Masonry, you know - on what page in "Morals and dogma", I did not find anything about comparative studying with emphasis on Eastern Literature there?

      The Theosophical Society was clearly not founded as a Masonry organisation with 33 grades hatched from the Jesuit College at Clermont in Paris and incorporated by Chevalier Ramsey and others - this must be a fact which aught to be stated, when you write what you do in your post, John. I mean in all fairness...All right?

      M. Sufilight

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Augoeides-222@...
      To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 5:23 AM
      Subject: Re: theos-talk the coming of the torch-bearer of truth.....

      Daniel,"

      Thx, for all you do and your organized compilations. Just an aside, in your listings of later day personages you mention a "Brother Phillip" author of "Secret of the Andes". Brother Phillip was the nome de plume of Geo rge H unt Williamson ( also wnet by the name Micheal de Obronevic of the Romanoffs) who made expeditions to south America and the Marca Hausi Plateau. He also wrote :

      Secret Places of the Lion

      The Saucers Speak

      Other Tongues --- Other Flesh

      UFO's Confidental

      He disappeared for many years and later turned up in Santa Barbara Ca. Associated with The Pacific Holistic Institute and was engaged in research upon the Glastonbury Zodiac, he passed away in the later 1980's. He was accussed of being member to the Silver Shirts Sect.

      Also Morten made mention of the swastica and jewish seal on the John King portrait. The swastica antedates hitler by a few thousands of years particular to the Buddhists and the pre-Buddhists Jina Bodhists. The Jewish seal was also long recognized as the Seal of the Hindu Vishnu. L Ron Hubbard reorganized it by inverting the lower triad so that both triangles pointed upward indicating ascent by re-intregation of Affinity, Reality, Communication and Be(ing) ,Do(ing), Have(ing) ,thereby morphing an ancient symbol into a new modern statement of achievement possible for mankind.

      The three objects that Morten assigns exclusively to Theosophy actually were pick me ups from the Masonic Dogma and can be forund in Morals and dogma, I oten wondered why none have pointed that out for over 11 yars that I have been sitting here reading lol.

      beat regards to all, happy new year.

      PS: my old 8th grade science teacher told to always remember this "I will never become overwrought about conditions which are beyond my control".

      John

      ----- Original Message -----

      From: "Daniel" < danielhcaldwell@... >
      To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 6:16:23 PM
      Subject: theos-talk the coming of the torch-bearer of truth.....

      If HPB can be considered a teacher, the messenger of the masters, the torch-bearer of the truth for the 19th century, then surely one can be open to the idea expressed in 3 different statements given by HPB. In the following link in the section on Alice Bailey, the reader will find those 3 quotes by HPB:

      http://blavatskyarchives.com/latermessengers.htm#five

      I would suggest that all three of these have to be carefully read and then one can ask how is all of this to be considered in light of the morass of claims and counter claims given out by all the individuals listed at the following link:

      http://blavatskyarchives.com/moderntheosophy.htm#Endnote

      and also what was the occult status of HPB?

      see the 4 quotes from the Mahatmas given in the 1st section of the following paper:

      http://blavatskyarchives.com/latermessengers.htm#1

      Daniel
      http://hpb.cc

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