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KEY TO CURRENT CRITICAL SITUATION IN TS

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  • MKR
    KEY TO CURRENT CRITICAL SITUATION IN TS Most members world-wide have High School education or less, not degree holders, not PhDs, not scholars. Hence this is
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 24, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      KEY TO CURRENT CRITICAL SITUATION IN TS

      Most members world-wide have High School education or less, not degree
      holders, not PhDs, not scholars. Hence this is an attempt to present the
      current critical situation in TS in very simple language so that everyone
      can clearly understand it.

      +++++++

      International President Election and Aftermath



      Who are the candidates: Radha Burnier & John Algeo

      How did they become candidates?

      Members of General Council nominated them.

      Who elects the President?

      Members world-wide.

      When and how the members knew about the candidates?

      Only when they received their ballots.

      Was there any information about the fitness of the candidates?

      Yes. Members in several countries received letters from their leaders that
      Radha Burnier is both mentally and physically sick.

      Why was this information sent to members?

      To influence members to defeat Radha Burnier.

      Was this health information true?

      No. It was not.

      How do you know that?

      Three independent medical doctors from two continents certified that she is
      fit, both mentally and physically. One of the doctors is the head of TS in a
      European Country and a long time dedicated theosophist.

      Did the leaders who distributed the early incorrect information to members,
      distribute the above objective correct information to members to correct the
      erroneous information?

      NO.

      Why?

      All they wanted was to defeat Radha Burnier.

      Why is correct information important?

      Prime object of TS is Brotherhood. Motto of TS is - There is No Religion
      Higher than Truth.

      Brothers and sisters should not be mislead by other brothers, especially the
      leaders.

      How does this affect TS and theosophy?

      Many members now have a very low level of trust in their leaders, especially
      outside India. This makes them impossible to effectively function as
      leaders.

      Who was elected in the election?

      Radha Burnier, with a wide margin.

      After the election did everyone acclaim her win and join her in working to
      help TS to broadcast theosophy?

      Not that we have seen.

      Why?

      There were allegations that Indian Section did not conduct the voting
      properly.

      How did the Indian Section respond to this?

      The section questioned the allegations and wanted proof.

      What was the reply?

      Silence from allegers.

      Did this end all election related issues?

      No

      Why do you say this?

      Soon after the election, four members of the General Council made an attempt
      for GC to seize control of the election of the president.

      Tell me more about it. It gets interesting.

      An agenda item was sent to the GC to disenfranchise all the members
      world-wide and the president to be elected (appointed) by GC members. It was
      to be considered in December meeting, approved and quickly implemented. GC
      members now have the monopoly to nominate president candidates and this
      would have made them appoint the president, thus control the president.

      Looks like a very clever and smart move.

      How did members find out about it?

      Through Internet.

      Why through Internet?

      The move was super secret. It was so secret that even long-time members and
      workers at Olcott and other National and International Headquarters did not
      know about it. They all learnt about it from Internet. When this was
      discovered, it was publicized on Internet since Internet is outside the
      control of TS.

      What was the reaction of members?

      Shock and dismay. They could not believe what their leaders are upto.

      Why do they do it?

      Just to seize power through backdoor after their candidate was badly
      defeated in the election.

      Was this disenfranchisement approved in the GC meeting?

      No. It did not come up.

      How often GC meet?

      Once a year.

      How open are the GC meeting agenda and its proceedings?

      Super secret.

      Is TS a secret society?

      No

      Why then is the secrecy?

      No body knows. Needs to ask our elected leaders.

      Does the secrecy help?

      Yes, surely. It helps the GC members to keep secret from the membership, the
      issues, deliberations, views and voting of individual GC members.

      Has any attempt been made by GC members to make the agenda and proceedings
      transparent?

      Not that we know of.

      Were any important matters transacted in the last meeting?

      Nothing other than appointment of VP and GC members.

      Anything significant about these appointments?

      Yes. There was a significant block of GC members who opposed all the
      appointments even though all the nominees are experienced, exceptional, long
      term dedicated, very knowledgeable highly regarded members.

      Do you know who were the members of this block?

      No. It should be the same members who wanted to defeat Radha Burnier.

      Is this kind of deep division in the GC voting normal?

      Not at all. Usually voting is unanimous.

      Why is the deep division important?

      It shows a determined group trying to oppose every nomination and possibly
      obstruct the administration.

      How does it affect TS and theosophy?

      This division can only hurt the work of TS and theosophy.

      Why?

      Anything on Internet is like Akashic records. It is archived for ever.
      Anyone can search for them.

      How does the archived information affect TS and theosophy?

      Anyone newly interested theosophy and TS will find all the past info and
      would be confused and wonder what kind of things go on in the TS. Do leaders
      practice what they preach or there is a serious disconnect between the
      object of TS and the motto of TS and what they practice?

      Has any of the present, past leaders and scholars, theosophical writers,
      lecturers, aspiring chelas who have witnessed all of the above, have come
      out openly to improve the above situation?

      No. Almost all of them are standing silent in the sidelines.

      Why?

      A $64,000 question. May be the fear of being marginalised by the elected
      leaders.

      If the present condition continues, what is likely to happen?

      Membership in India will continue to grow as it has been in the past.
      Membership outside India will be going down like it has happened in the
      past. We may even see Sections disappearing.

      What can an ordinary member do to help?

      Talk to other members and your leaders. Tell them about the serious
      situation. If need be, get new leaders who are committed to theosophy and TS
      and interested in unification.

      Is this document copyrighted?

      No. You can freely copy and distribute to anyone in any medium. When
      interests of TS and theosophy are involved, copyrighting is simply silly and
      childish.

      M K Ramadoss

      There is No Religion Higher Than Truth


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Drpsionic@aol.com
      Interesting, as the US section members tend to have more degrees than a thermometer. Chuck the Heretic In a message dated 4/24/2009 12:21:11 P.M. Central
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 24, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Interesting, as the US section members tend to have more degrees than a
        thermometer.

        Chuck the Heretic


        In a message dated 4/24/2009 12:21:11 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
        mkr777@... writes:





        KEY TO CURRENT CRITICAL SITUATION IN TS

        Most members world-wide have High School education or less, not degree
        holders, not PhDs, not scholars. Hence this is an attempt to present the
        current critical situation in TS in very simple language so that everyone
        can clearly understand it.

        +++++++

        International President Election and Aftermath

        Who are the candidates: Radha Burnier & John Algeo

        How did they become candidates?

        Members of General Council nominated them.

        Who elects the President?

        Members world-wide.

        When and how the members knew about the candidates?

        Only when they received their ballots.

        Was there any information about the fitness of the candidates?

        Yes. Members in several countries received letters from their leaders that
        Radha Burnier is both mentally and physically sick.

        Why was this information sent to members?

        To influence members to defeat Radha Burnier.

        Was this health information true?

        No. It was not.

        How do you know that?

        Three independent medical doctors from two continents certified that she is
        fit, both mentally and physically. One of the doctors is the head of TS in
        a
        European Country and a long time dedicated theosophist.

        Did the leaders who distributed the early incorrect information to members,
        distribute the above objective correct information to members to correct
        the
        erroneous information?

        NO.

        Why?

        All they wanted was to defeat Radha Burnier.

        Why is correct information important?

        Prime object of TS is Brotherhood. Motto of TS is - There is No Religion
        Higher than Truth.

        Brothers and sisters should not be mislead by other brothers, especially
        the
        leaders.

        How does this affect TS and theosophy?

        Many members now have a very low level of trust in their leaders,
        especially
        outside India. This makes them impossible to effectively function as
        leaders.

        Who was elected in the election?

        Radha Burnier, with a wide margin.

        After the election did everyone acclaim her win and join her in working to
        help TS to broadcast theosophy?

        Not that we have seen.

        Why?

        There were allegations that Indian Section did not conduct the voting
        properly.

        How did the Indian Section respond to this?

        The section questioned the allegations and wanted proof.

        What was the reply?

        Silence from allegers.

        Did this end all election related issues?

        No

        Why do you say this?

        Soon after the election, four members of the General Council made an
        attempt
        for GC to seize control of the election of the president.

        Tell me more about it. It gets interesting.

        An agenda item was sent to the GC to disenfranchise all the members
        world-wide and the president to be elected (appointed) by GC members. It
        was
        to be considered in December meeting, approved and quickly implemented. GC
        members now have the monopoly to nominate president candidates and this
        would have made them appoint the president, thus control the president.

        Looks like a very clever and smart move.

        How did members find out about it?

        Through Internet.

        Why through Internet?

        The move was super secret. It was so secret that even long-time members and
        workers at Olcott and other National and International Headquarters did not
        know about it. They all learnt about it from Internet. When this was
        discovered, it was publicized on Internet since Internet is outside the
        control of TS.

        What was the reaction of members?

        Shock and dismay. They could not believe what their leaders are upto.

        Why do they do it?

        Just to seize power through backdoor after their candidate was badly
        defeated in the election.

        Was this disenfranchisement approved in the GC meeting?

        No. It did not come up.

        How often GC meet?

        Once a year.

        How open are the GC meeting agenda and its proceedings?

        Super secret.

        Is TS a secret society?

        No

        Why then is the secrecy?

        No body knows. Needs to ask our elected leaders.

        Does the secrecy help?

        Yes, surely. It helps the GC members to keep secret from the membership,
        the
        issues, deliberations, views and voting of individual GC members.

        Has any attempt been made by GC members to make the agenda and proceedings
        transparent?

        Not that we know of.

        Were any important matters transacted in the last meeting?

        Nothing other than appointment of VP and GC members.

        Anything significant about these appointments?

        Yes. There was a significant block of GC members who opposed all the
        appointments even though all the nominees are experienced, exceptional,
        long
        term dedicated, very knowledgeable highly regarded members.

        Do you know who were the members of this block?

        No. It should be the same members who wanted to defeat Radha Burnier.

        Is this kind of deep division in the GC voting normal?

        Not at all. Usually voting is unanimous.

        Why is the deep division important?

        It shows a determined group trying to oppose every nomination and possibly
        obstruct the administration.

        How does it affect TS and theosophy?

        This division can only hurt the work of TS and theosophy.

        Why?

        Anything on Internet is like Akashic records. It is archived for ever.
        Anyone can search for them.

        How does the archived information affect TS and theosophy?

        Anyone newly interested theosophy and TS will find all the past info and
        would be confused and wonder what kind of things go on in the TS. Do
        leaders
        practice what they preach or there is a serious disconnect between the
        object of TS and the motto of TS and what they practice?

        Has any of the present, past leaders and scholars, theosophical writers,
        lecturers, aspiring chelas who have witnessed all of the above, have come
        out openly to improve the above situation?

        No. Almost all of them are standing silent in the sidelines.

        Why?

        A $64,000 question. May be the fear of being marginalised by the elected
        leaders.

        If the present condition continues, what is likely to happen?

        Membership in India will continue to grow as it has been in the past.
        Membership outside India will be going down like it has happened in the
        past. We may even see Sections disappearing.

        What can an ordinary member do to help?

        Talk to other members and your leaders. Tell them about the serious
        situation. If need be, get new leaders who are committed to theosophy and
        TS
        and interested in unification.

        Is this document copyrighted?

        No. You can freely copy and distribute to anyone in any medium. When
        interests of TS and theosophy are involved, copyrighting is simply silly
        and
        childish.

        M K Ramadoss

        There is No Religion Higher Than Truth

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Govert Schuller
        Dear MKR and all others concerned, For the sake of fairness and balance I will share my thoughts below on the health issue of PTS Radha Burnier. I lifted it
        Message 3 of 5 , May 1, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear MKR and all others concerned,

          For the sake of fairness and balance I will share my thoughts below on the health issue of PTS Radha Burnier. I lifted it from a longer e-mail in draft with my thoughts on all the different issues which are now in the open and have to be addressed from many angles by many critical thinkers.

          Burnier's health was and is still problematic, triple health certificates notwithstanding. The questions to be asked were: a) was it medically advisable for her to take on the PTS position for another 7 years in view of her age and her stroke? b) Is it possible that medical examiners were not aware of allegedly observed dysfunctions? Is it possible that those who reported the dysfunctions are now silent to not aggravate the already tense situation or fear repercusions? I wish they'd come forward, but in the absence of any proof that these observations were concocted with malice I have to defend their good faith in being concerned about the functioning of the TS.

          How they went about sharing these concerns about Radha's health have to be scrutinized and, if found wanting from a procedural perspective, that has to be balanced with their perception of the gravity of the situation with the possible conclusion that they should be accorded the moral and legal protection which comes with whistle-blower status. (The same logic would also be applicable in the case of the leaking of the reform-proposals and therefore Pedro Oliveira should be accorded similar status and protection. Ironically his leaking is of course also open to be interpreted as the outcome of a concerted plan to mount a counter-offensive against the reform-group with MKR and Mr. Fisher as point men. [And your denial will be interpreted as affirmation. Ah, let some healthy paranoia reign!]).

          I'm sure that some members (like me) saw the health issue as an unfortunate additional reason to replace Radha, but to read into the facts as far as we know them a secret, concerted effort to get Algeo into office is stretching it a little too far, even borders on slander and therefore not helpful in bringing the issue to resolution. Where is the proof (and I mean actual documentary proof, not plausible deductions)?

          On the other hand, those who have problems with Radha's governing style, decisions and persona and like to have her replaced by someone more of their liking, they should have been more open and communicative with their perceptions. Some of us did (including myself in: The State of the TS (Adyar) in 2008: A Psycho-esoteric Interpretation). Others didn't and are now perceived as hiding behind the health issue or, even worse, engineering a coup. This could have been prevented by a more open opposition with openly discussed policy alternatives. Too bad we have not developed such political habits yet. It's high time.

          In short, Radha's health issue was important enough to have the membership informed about and all actions and non-actions should be evaluated in that light. But the issue should not have been used to indirectly express exisiting dissatisfaction with her leadership, though all actions and non-actions should be evaluated in the light of the absence of a more mature organizational culture in matters of internal policies and policy differences. In other words, if there is no genuine openness, politics go underground, where it festers, and when it comes above ground, it stinks and its malodour now suffuses most of the TS and it's hard to see what actions should be taken to clean it up.

          May we all pas our tests

          Govert


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: MKR
          To: M K Ramadoss ; theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ; theos-l
          Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:20 PM
          Subject: Theos-World KEY TO CURRENT CRITICAL SITUATION IN TS





          KEY TO CURRENT CRITICAL SITUATION IN TS

          Most members world-wide have High School education or less, not degree
          holders, not PhDs, not scholars. Hence this is an attempt to present the
          current critical situation in TS in very simple language so that everyone
          can clearly understand it.

          +++++++

          International President Election and Aftermath

          Who are the candidates: Radha Burnier & John Algeo

          How did they become candidates?

          Members of General Council nominated them.

          Who elects the President?

          Members world-wide.

          When and how the members knew about the candidates?

          Only when they received their ballots.

          Was there any information about the fitness of the candidates?

          Yes. Members in several countries received letters from their leaders that
          Radha Burnier is both mentally and physically sick.

          Why was this information sent to members?

          To influence members to defeat Radha Burnier.

          Was this health information true?

          No. It was not.

          How do you know that?

          Three independent medical doctors from two continents certified that she is
          fit, both mentally and physically. One of the doctors is the head of TS in a
          European Country and a long time dedicated theosophist.

          Did the leaders who distributed the early incorrect information to members,
          distribute the above objective correct information to members to correct the
          erroneous information?

          NO.

          Why?

          All they wanted was to defeat Radha Burnier.

          Why is correct information important?

          Prime object of TS is Brotherhood. Motto of TS is - There is No Religion
          Higher than Truth.

          Brothers and sisters should not be mislead by other brothers, especially the
          leaders.

          How does this affect TS and theosophy?

          Many members now have a very low level of trust in their leaders, especially
          outside India. This makes them impossible to effectively function as
          leaders.

          Who was elected in the election?

          Radha Burnier, with a wide margin.

          After the election did everyone acclaim her win and join her in working to
          help TS to broadcast theosophy?

          Not that we have seen.

          Why?

          There were allegations that Indian Section did not conduct the voting
          properly.

          How did the Indian Section respond to this?

          The section questioned the allegations and wanted proof.

          What was the reply?

          Silence from allegers.

          Did this end all election related issues?

          No

          Why do you say this?

          Soon after the election, four members of the General Council made an attempt
          for GC to seize control of the election of the president.

          Tell me more about it. It gets interesting.

          An agenda item was sent to the GC to disenfranchise all the members
          world-wide and the president to be elected (appointed) by GC members. It was
          to be considered in December meeting, approved and quickly implemented. GC
          members now have the monopoly to nominate president candidates and this
          would have made them appoint the president, thus control the president.

          Looks like a very clever and smart move.

          How did members find out about it?

          Through Internet.

          Why through Internet?

          The move was super secret. It was so secret that even long-time members and
          workers at Olcott and other National and International Headquarters did not
          know about it. They all learnt about it from Internet. When this was
          discovered, it was publicized on Internet since Internet is outside the
          control of TS.

          What was the reaction of members?

          Shock and dismay. They could not believe what their leaders are upto.

          Why do they do it?

          Just to seize power through backdoor after their candidate was badly
          defeated in the election.

          Was this disenfranchisement approved in the GC meeting?

          No. It did not come up.

          How often GC meet?

          Once a year.

          How open are the GC meeting agenda and its proceedings?

          Super secret.

          Is TS a secret society?

          No

          Why then is the secrecy?

          No body knows. Needs to ask our elected leaders.

          Does the secrecy help?

          Yes, surely. It helps the GC members to keep secret from the membership, the
          issues, deliberations, views and voting of individual GC members.

          Has any attempt been made by GC members to make the agenda and proceedings
          transparent?

          Not that we know of.

          Were any important matters transacted in the last meeting?

          Nothing other than appointment of VP and GC members.

          Anything significant about these appointments?

          Yes. There was a significant block of GC members who opposed all the
          appointments even though all the nominees are experienced, exceptional, long
          term dedicated, very knowledgeable highly regarded members.

          Do you know who were the members of this block?

          No. It should be the same members who wanted to defeat Radha Burnier.

          Is this kind of deep division in the GC voting normal?

          Not at all. Usually voting is unanimous.

          Why is the deep division important?

          It shows a determined group trying to oppose every nomination and possibly
          obstruct the administration.

          How does it affect TS and theosophy?

          This division can only hurt the work of TS and theosophy.

          Why?

          Anything on Internet is like Akashic records. It is archived for ever.
          Anyone can search for them.

          How does the archived information affect TS and theosophy?

          Anyone newly interested theosophy and TS will find all the past info and
          would be confused and wonder what kind of things go on in the TS. Do leaders
          practice what they preach or there is a serious disconnect between the
          object of TS and the motto of TS and what they practice?

          Has any of the present, past leaders and scholars, theosophical writers,
          lecturers, aspiring chelas who have witnessed all of the above, have come
          out openly to improve the above situation?

          No. Almost all of them are standing silent in the sidelines.

          Why?

          A $64,000 question. May be the fear of being marginalised by the elected
          leaders.

          If the present condition continues, what is likely to happen?

          Membership in India will continue to grow as it has been in the past.
          Membership outside India will be going down like it has happened in the
          past. We may even see Sections disappearing.

          What can an ordinary member do to help?

          Talk to other members and your leaders. Tell them about the serious
          situation. If need be, get new leaders who are committed to theosophy and TS
          and interested in unification.

          Is this document copyrighted?

          No. You can freely copy and distribute to anyone in any medium. When
          interests of TS and theosophy are involved, copyrighting is simply silly and
          childish.

          M K Ramadoss

          There is No Religion Higher Than Truth

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • MKR
          I think it is appropriate to recount the present situation. 1. Radha Burnier was elected in the world-wide election and has assumed the office. She is our
          Message 4 of 5 , May 1, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            I think it is appropriate to recount the present situation.

            1. Radha Burnier was elected in the world-wide election and has assumed the
            office. She is our President for the next seven years. How long she will be
            surviving in this life is something the Higher Powers are going to decide.

            2. To the best of our knowledge, she is discharging her duties very well.
            Last week I received a first hand report from a Indian friend of mine who is
            highly trustworthy, that she was in Kolkata and addressed the meetings there
            for three days and is on her way to Gujerat state to participate in meetings
            there. This is in spite of the well known severe summer heat of Kolkata and
            the heat in Gujerat is no different.
            3. Many members in Indian Section are deeply upset with the allegations
            relating to the voting procedure and when openly challenged by the Section
            leaders, was met with silence, which did not improve the situation.

            4. Disenfranchisement is a very sensitive issue in any democratic setup. The
            timing of the move, soon after the election, and players behind the move,
            and the speed with which it was intended to be approved and implemented,
            raised serious questions about the motivations and objectives. The
            disenfranchisement move was the most unwise and unjustifiable action and
            when it came out, none behind it, immediately disassociated themselves and
            put out the membership uproar in a simple forthright manner. Inaction in
            this case resulted in a lot of damage.

            5. Items 3 and 4, have caused most long-term damage and members around the
            world are not going to forget about them.

            6. Many members feel that important issues such as poor membership
            recruitment and retention outside India have been totally ignored by the
            leaders as we have seen from what was accomplished in the GC meeting. This
            is especially so when the situation in some countries is very critical in
            that no new lodge has been chartered in last 50 years.

            7. TS was setup such that each Section and each Lodge is fully autonomous
            and its survival and growth world-wide is due to the wisdom behind such a
            setup. (Mind you, the Inner Founders were in close contact with HSO&HPB in
            guiding the formation of the TS and some credit should be given to Their
            wisdom.) It is also to be noted that the GC has no power to remove any
            General Secretary, guaranteeing the autonomy. So the growth and survival of
            the sections and lodges are entirely dependent on the activities in the
            Sections and Lodges and not any rules and regulations or the actions of the
            President who gets involved only when there are disputes between Sections.
            8. Inordinate attention is being directed to tweaking the rules and
            regulations and no one has demonstrated how they will translate into
            membership recruitment and retention especially in the Western Countries
            where the situation is bad and need quick action by the Section leaders.
            9. Recent GC meeting did not help to improve the situation. The highly
            divided votes in most of the appointments is a clear indication of a group
            of members opposing all well-qualified candidates who are all long time well
            regarded members of the TS. This reflected badly on this group of GC
            members, who are suspected to be the same ones who wanted to defeat Radha
            Burnier.
            10. Many of the issues and problems, in my opinion, could have been avoided
            if there was transparency in all actions. Leaders have been thriving on
            non-transparency and everyday new questions are going to be asked because
            past actions have lowered the trust members have in their leaders. Leaders
            need to determine on some bold actions to restore the trust of the members
            in their leaders.
            11. The ball is in the court of the leaders. My prayer is they will find
            some quick dramatic course of action to normalize the situation.


            Finally I need to say something about myself. I am just an ordinary TS
            member and I live in San Antonio, Texas. While I am long-time member, I have
            not held any office in the Administration in the USA or Adyar in the past
            and nor am I planning to hold any in the future.

            Also, I work for myself and my lively hood is not dependent on TS or any TS
            member and as such I am able to keep my independence and be my own man. So
            when I see any events or facts affecting TS, I do not want to be silent and
            I make the best judgement call, and speak my mind openly in the hope that it
            would help TS and Theosophy. Future will decide if any of my efforts has
            helped TS and Theosophy.

            Finally, but for this forum – unmoderated theos-talk setup by Eldon Tucker,
            we will not be exchanging this communication and my gratitude is due to him
            and many other participants who have helped discuss and debate issues
            affecting TS and theosophy so that we can help TS and theosophy.

            MKR

            There is no religion higher than Truth




            On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Govert Schuller <schuller@...>wrote:

            >
            >
            > Dear MKR and all others concerned,
            >
            > For the sake of fairness and balance I will share my thoughts below on the
            > health issue of PTS Radha Burnier. I lifted it from a longer e-mail in draft
            > with my thoughts on all the different issues which are now in the open and
            > have to be addressed from many angles by many critical thinkers.
            >
            > Burnier's health was and is still problematic, triple health certificates
            > notwithstanding. The questions to be asked were: a) was it medically
            > advisable for her to take on the PTS position for another 7 years in view of
            > her age and her stroke? b) Is it possible that medical examiners were not
            > aware of allegedly observed dysfunctions? Is it possible that those who
            > reported the dysfunctions are now silent to not aggravate the already tense
            > situation or fear repercusions? I wish they'd come forward, but in the
            > absence of any proof that these observations were concocted with malice I
            > have to defend their good faith in being concerned about the functioning of
            > the TS.
            >
            > How they went about sharing these concerns about Radha's health have to be
            > scrutinized and, if found wanting from a procedural perspective, that has to
            > be balanced with their perception of the gravity of the situation with the
            > possible conclusion that they should be accorded the moral and legal
            > protection which comes with whistle-blower status. (The same logic would
            > also be applicable in the case of the leaking of the reform-proposals and
            > therefore Pedro Oliveira should be accorded similar status and protection.
            > Ironically his leaking is of course also open to be interpreted as the
            > outcome of a concerted plan to mount a counter-offensive against the
            > reform-group with MKR and Mr. Fisher as point men. [And your denial will be
            > interpreted as affirmation. Ah, let some healthy paranoia reign!]).
            >
            > I'm sure that some members (like me) saw the health issue as an unfortunate
            > additional reason to replace Radha, but to read into the facts as far as we
            > know them a secret, concerted effort to get Algeo into office is stretching
            > it a little too far, even borders on slander and therefore not helpful in
            > bringing the issue to resolution. Where is the proof (and I mean actual
            > documentary proof, not plausible deductions)?
            >
            > On the other hand, those who have problems with Radha's governing style,
            > decisions and persona and like to have her replaced by someone more of their
            > liking, they should have been more open and communicative with their
            > perceptions. Some of us did (including myself in: The State of the TS
            > (Adyar) in 2008: A Psycho-esoteric Interpretation). Others didn't and are
            > now perceived as hiding behind the health issue or, even worse, engineering
            > a coup. This could have been prevented by a more open opposition with openly
            > discussed policy alternatives. Too bad we have not developed such political
            > habits yet. It's high time.
            >
            > In short, Radha's health issue was important enough to have the membership
            > informed about and all actions and non-actions should be evaluated in that
            > light. But the issue should not have been used to indirectly express
            > exisiting dissatisfaction with her leadership, though all actions and
            > non-actions should be evaluated in the light of the absence of a more mature
            > organizational culture in matters of internal policies and policy
            > differences. In other words, if there is no genuine openness, politics go
            > underground, where it festers, and when it comes above ground, it stinks and
            > its malodour now suffuses most of the TS and it's hard to see what actions
            > should be taken to clean it up.
            >
            > May we all pas our tests
            >
            > Govert
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: MKR
            > To: M K Ramadoss ; theos-talk@yahoogroups.com<theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>; theos-l
            > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:20 PM
            > Subject: Theos-World KEY TO CURRENT CRITICAL SITUATION IN TS
            >
            > KEY TO CURRENT CRITICAL SITUATION IN TS
            >
            > Most members world-wide have High School education or less, not degree
            > holders, not PhDs, not scholars. Hence this is an attempt to present the
            > current critical situation in TS in very simple language so that everyone
            > can clearly understand it.
            >
            > +++++++
            >
            > International President Election and Aftermath
            >
            > Who are the candidates: Radha Burnier & John Algeo
            >
            > How did they become candidates?
            >
            > Members of General Council nominated them.
            >
            > Who elects the President?
            >
            > Members world-wide.
            >
            > When and how the members knew about the candidates?
            >
            > Only when they received their ballots.
            >
            > Was there any information about the fitness of the candidates?
            >
            > Yes. Members in several countries received letters from their leaders that
            > Radha Burnier is both mentally and physically sick.
            >
            > Why was this information sent to members?
            >
            > To influence members to defeat Radha Burnier.
            >
            > Was this health information true?
            >
            > No. It was not.
            >
            > How do you know that?
            >
            > Three independent medical doctors from two continents certified that she is
            > fit, both mentally and physically. One of the doctors is the head of TS in
            > a
            > European Country and a long time dedicated theosophist.
            >
            > Did the leaders who distributed the early incorrect information to members,
            > distribute the above objective correct information to members to correct
            > the
            > erroneous information?
            >
            > NO.
            >
            > Why?
            >
            > All they wanted was to defeat Radha Burnier.
            >
            > Why is correct information important?
            >
            > Prime object of TS is Brotherhood. Motto of TS is - There is No Religion
            > Higher than Truth.
            >
            > Brothers and sisters should not be mislead by other brothers, especially
            > the
            > leaders.
            >
            > How does this affect TS and theosophy?
            >
            > Many members now have a very low level of trust in their leaders,
            > especially
            > outside India. This makes them impossible to effectively function as
            > leaders.
            >
            > Who was elected in the election?
            >
            > Radha Burnier, with a wide margin.
            >
            > After the election did everyone acclaim her win and join her in working to
            > help TS to broadcast theosophy?
            >
            > Not that we have seen.
            >
            > Why?
            >
            > There were allegations that Indian Section did not conduct the voting
            > properly.
            >
            > How did the Indian Section respond to this?
            >
            > The section questioned the allegations and wanted proof.
            >
            > What was the reply?
            >
            > Silence from allegers.
            >
            > Did this end all election related issues?
            >
            > No
            >
            > Why do you say this?
            >
            > Soon after the election, four members of the General Council made an
            > attempt
            > for GC to seize control of the election of the president.
            >
            > Tell me more about it. It gets interesting.
            >
            > An agenda item was sent to the GC to disenfranchise all the members
            > world-wide and the president to be elected (appointed) by GC members. It
            > was
            > to be considered in December meeting, approved and quickly implemented. GC
            > members now have the monopoly to nominate president candidates and this
            > would have made them appoint the president, thus control the president.
            >
            > Looks like a very clever and smart move.
            >
            > How did members find out about it?
            >
            > Through Internet.
            >
            > Why through Internet?
            >
            > The move was super secret. It was so secret that even long-time members and
            > workers at Olcott and other National and International Headquarters did not
            > know about it. They all learnt about it from Internet. When this was
            > discovered, it was publicized on Internet since Internet is outside the
            > control of TS.
            >
            > What was the reaction of members?
            >
            > Shock and dismay. They could not believe what their leaders are upto.
            >
            > Why do they do it?
            >
            > Just to seize power through backdoor after their candidate was badly
            > defeated in the election.
            >
            > Was this disenfranchisement approved in the GC meeting?
            >
            > No. It did not come up.
            >
            > How often GC meet?
            >
            > Once a year.
            >
            > How open are the GC meeting agenda and its proceedings?
            >
            > Super secret.
            >
            > Is TS a secret society?
            >
            > No
            >
            > Why then is the secrecy?
            >
            > No body knows. Needs to ask our elected leaders.
            >
            > Does the secrecy help?
            >
            > Yes, surely. It helps the GC members to keep secret from the membership,
            > the
            > issues, deliberations, views and voting of individual GC members.
            >
            > Has any attempt been made by GC members to make the agenda and proceedings
            > transparent?
            >
            > Not that we know of.
            >
            > Were any important matters transacted in the last meeting?
            >
            > Nothing other than appointment of VP and GC members.
            >
            > Anything significant about these appointments?
            >
            > Yes. There was a significant block of GC members who opposed all the
            > appointments even though all the nominees are experienced, exceptional,
            > long
            > term dedicated, very knowledgeable highly regarded members.
            >
            > Do you know who were the members of this block?
            >
            > No. It should be the same members who wanted to defeat Radha Burnier.
            >
            > Is this kind of deep division in the GC voting normal?
            >
            > Not at all. Usually voting is unanimous.
            >
            > Why is the deep division important?
            >
            > It shows a determined group trying to oppose every nomination and possibly
            > obstruct the administration.
            >
            > How does it affect TS and theosophy?
            >
            > This division can only hurt the work of TS and theosophy.
            >
            > Why?
            >
            > Anything on Internet is like Akashic records. It is archived for ever.
            > Anyone can search for them.
            >
            > How does the archived information affect TS and theosophy?
            >
            > Anyone newly interested theosophy and TS will find all the past info and
            > would be confused and wonder what kind of things go on in the TS. Do
            > leaders
            > practice what they preach or there is a serious disconnect between the
            > object of TS and the motto of TS and what they practice?
            >
            > Has any of the present, past leaders and scholars, theosophical writers,
            > lecturers, aspiring chelas who have witnessed all of the above, have come
            > out openly to improve the above situation?
            >
            > No. Almost all of them are standing silent in the sidelines.
            >
            > Why?
            >
            > A $64,000 question. May be the fear of being marginalised by the elected
            > leaders.
            >
            > If the present condition continues, what is likely to happen?
            >
            > Membership in India will continue to grow as it has been in the past.
            > Membership outside India will be going down like it has happened in the
            > past. We may even see Sections disappearing.
            >
            > What can an ordinary member do to help?
            >
            > Talk to other members and your leaders. Tell them about the serious
            > situation. If need be, get new leaders who are committed to theosophy and
            > TS
            > and interested in unification.
            >
            > Is this document copyrighted?
            >
            > No. You can freely copy and distribute to anyone in any medium. When
            > interests of TS and theosophy are involved, copyrighting is simply silly
            > and
            > childish.
            >
            > M K Ramadoss
            >
            > There is No Religion Higher Than Truth
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Govert Schuller
            Dear MKR, Thanks for sharing what you heard from your Indian friend regarding Radha s health. I m glad she s in good shape. But that observation does not moot
            Message 5 of 5 , May 3, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear MKR,

              Thanks for sharing what you heard from your Indian friend regarding Radha's health. I'm glad she's in good shape.

              But that observation does not moot the initial grave concern that some people had about her functioning and whether it was wise to have her continue in her position.

              She herself was ready to pas on the reigns to prof. Krishna. She could have just given it to Algeo as he was more ready, capable and Theosophical than the professor.

              Govert

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: MKR
              To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 9:00 PM
              Subject: Re: Theos-World KEY TO CURRENT CRITICAL SITUATION IN TS





              I think it is appropriate to recount the present situation.

              1. Radha Burnier was elected in the world-wide election and has assumed the
              office. She is our President for the next seven years. How long she will be
              surviving in this life is something the Higher Powers are going to decide.

              2. To the best of our knowledge, she is discharging her duties very well.
              Last week I received a first hand report from a Indian friend of mine who is
              highly trustworthy, that she was in Kolkata and addressed the meetings there
              for three days and is on her way to Gujerat state to participate in meetings
              there. This is in spite of the well known severe summer heat of Kolkata and
              the heat in Gujerat is no different.
              3. Many members in Indian Section are deeply upset with the allegations
              relating to the voting procedure and when openly challenged by the Section
              leaders, was met with silence, which did not improve the situation.

              4. Disenfranchisement is a very sensitive issue in any democratic setup. The
              timing of the move, soon after the election, and players behind the move,
              and the speed with which it was intended to be approved and implemented,
              raised serious questions about the motivations and objectives. The
              disenfranchisement move was the most unwise and unjustifiable action and
              when it came out, none behind it, immediately disassociated themselves and
              put out the membership uproar in a simple forthright manner. Inaction in
              this case resulted in a lot of damage.

              5. Items 3 and 4, have caused most long-term damage and members around the
              world are not going to forget about them.

              6. Many members feel that important issues such as poor membership
              recruitment and retention outside India have been totally ignored by the
              leaders as we have seen from what was accomplished in the GC meeting. This
              is especially so when the situation in some countries is very critical in
              that no new lodge has been chartered in last 50 years.

              7. TS was setup such that each Section and each Lodge is fully autonomous
              and its survival and growth world-wide is due to the wisdom behind such a
              setup. (Mind you, the Inner Founders were in close contact with HSO&HPB in
              guiding the formation of the TS and some credit should be given to Their
              wisdom.) It is also to be noted that the GC has no power to remove any
              General Secretary, guaranteeing the autonomy. So the growth and survival of
              the sections and lodges are entirely dependent on the activities in the
              Sections and Lodges and not any rules and regulations or the actions of the
              President who gets involved only when there are disputes between Sections.
              8. Inordinate attention is being directed to tweaking the rules and
              regulations and no one has demonstrated how they will translate into
              membership recruitment and retention especially in the Western Countries
              where the situation is bad and need quick action by the Section leaders.
              9. Recent GC meeting did not help to improve the situation. The highly
              divided votes in most of the appointments is a clear indication of a group
              of members opposing all well-qualified candidates who are all long time well
              regarded members of the TS. This reflected badly on this group of GC
              members, who are suspected to be the same ones who wanted to defeat Radha
              Burnier.
              10. Many of the issues and problems, in my opinion, could have been avoided
              if there was transparency in all actions. Leaders have been thriving on
              non-transparency and everyday new questions are going to be asked because
              past actions have lowered the trust members have in their leaders. Leaders
              need to determine on some bold actions to restore the trust of the members
              in their leaders.
              11. The ball is in the court of the leaders. My prayer is they will find
              some quick dramatic course of action to normalize the situation.

              Finally I need to say something about myself. I am just an ordinary TS
              member and I live in San Antonio, Texas. While I am long-time member, I have
              not held any office in the Administration in the USA or Adyar in the past
              and nor am I planning to hold any in the future.

              Also, I work for myself and my lively hood is not dependent on TS or any TS
              member and as such I am able to keep my independence and be my own man. So
              when I see any events or facts affecting TS, I do not want to be silent and
              I make the best judgement call, and speak my mind openly in the hope that it
              would help TS and Theosophy. Future will decide if any of my efforts has
              helped TS and Theosophy.

              Finally, but for this forum – unmoderated theos-talk setup by Eldon Tucker,
              we will not be exchanging this communication and my gratitude is due to him
              and many other participants who have helped discuss and debate issues
              affecting TS and theosophy so that we can help TS and theosophy.

              MKR

              There is no religion higher than Truth

              On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Govert Schuller <schuller@...>wrote:

              >
              >
              > Dear MKR and all others concerned,
              >
              > For the sake of fairness and balance I will share my thoughts below on the
              > health issue of PTS Radha Burnier. I lifted it from a longer e-mail in draft
              > with my thoughts on all the different issues which are now in the open and
              > have to be addressed from many angles by many critical thinkers.
              >
              > Burnier's health was and is still problematic, triple health certificates
              > notwithstanding. The questions to be asked were: a) was it medically
              > advisable for her to take on the PTS position for another 7 years in view of
              > her age and her stroke? b) Is it possible that medical examiners were not
              > aware of allegedly observed dysfunctions? Is it possible that those who
              > reported the dysfunctions are now silent to not aggravate the already tense
              > situation or fear repercusions? I wish they'd come forward, but in the
              > absence of any proof that these observations were concocted with malice I
              > have to defend their good faith in being concerned about the functioning of
              > the TS.
              >
              > How they went about sharing these concerns about Radha's health have to be
              > scrutinized and, if found wanting from a procedural perspective, that has to
              > be balanced with their perception of the gravity of the situation with the
              > possible conclusion that they should be accorded the moral and legal
              > protection which comes with whistle-blower status. (The same logic would
              > also be applicable in the case of the leaking of the reform-proposals and
              > therefore Pedro Oliveira should be accorded similar status and protection.
              > Ironically his leaking is of course also open to be interpreted as the
              > outcome of a concerted plan to mount a counter-offensive against the
              > reform-group with MKR and Mr. Fisher as point men. [And your denial will be
              > interpreted as affirmation. Ah, let some healthy paranoia reign!]).
              >
              > I'm sure that some members (like me) saw the health issue as an unfortunate
              > additional reason to replace Radha, but to read into the facts as far as we
              > know them a secret, concerted effort to get Algeo into office is stretching
              > it a little too far, even borders on slander and therefore not helpful in
              > bringing the issue to resolution. Where is the proof (and I mean actual
              > documentary proof, not plausible deductions)?
              >
              > On the other hand, those who have problems with Radha's governing style,
              > decisions and persona and like to have her replaced by someone more of their
              > liking, they should have been more open and communicative with their
              > perceptions. Some of us did (including myself in: The State of the TS
              > (Adyar) in 2008: A Psycho-esoteric Interpretation). Others didn't and are
              > now perceived as hiding behind the health issue or, even worse, engineering
              > a coup. This could have been prevented by a more open opposition with openly
              > discussed policy alternatives. Too bad we have not developed such political
              > habits yet. It's high time.
              >
              > In short, Radha's health issue was important enough to have the membership
              > informed about and all actions and non-actions should be evaluated in that
              > light. But the issue should not have been used to indirectly express
              > exisiting dissatisfaction with her leadership, though all actions and
              > non-actions should be evaluated in the light of the absence of a more mature
              > organizational culture in matters of internal policies and policy
              > differences. In other words, if there is no genuine openness, politics go
              > underground, where it festers, and when it comes above ground, it stinks and
              > its malodour now suffuses most of the TS and it's hard to see what actions
              > should be taken to clean it up.
              >
              > May we all pas our tests
              >
              > Govert
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: MKR
              > To: M K Ramadoss ; theos-talk@yahoogroups.com<theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>; theos-l
              > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:20 PM
              > Subject: Theos-World KEY TO CURRENT CRITICAL SITUATION IN TS
              >
              > KEY TO CURRENT CRITICAL SITUATION IN TS
              >
              > Most members world-wide have High School education or less, not degree
              > holders, not PhDs, not scholars. Hence this is an attempt to present the
              > current critical situation in TS in very simple language so that everyone
              > can clearly understand it.
              >
              > +++++++
              >
              > International President Election and Aftermath
              >
              > Who are the candidates: Radha Burnier & John Algeo
              >
              > How did they become candidates?
              >
              > Members of General Council nominated them.
              >
              > Who elects the President?
              >
              > Members world-wide.
              >
              > When and how the members knew about the candidates?
              >
              > Only when they received their ballots.
              >
              > Was there any information about the fitness of the candidates?
              >
              > Yes. Members in several countries received letters from their leaders that
              > Radha Burnier is both mentally and physically sick.
              >
              > Why was this information sent to members?
              >
              > To influence members to defeat Radha Burnier.
              >
              > Was this health information true?
              >
              > No. It was not.
              >
              > How do you know that?
              >
              > Three independent medical doctors from two continents certified that she is
              > fit, both mentally and physically. One of the doctors is the head of TS in
              > a
              > European Country and a long time dedicated theosophist.
              >
              > Did the leaders who distributed the early incorrect information to members,
              > distribute the above objective correct information to members to correct
              > the
              > erroneous information?
              >
              > NO.
              >
              > Why?
              >
              > All they wanted was to defeat Radha Burnier.
              >
              > Why is correct information important?
              >
              > Prime object of TS is Brotherhood. Motto of TS is - There is No Religion
              > Higher than Truth.
              >
              > Brothers and sisters should not be mislead by other brothers, especially
              > the
              > leaders.
              >
              > How does this affect TS and theosophy?
              >
              > Many members now have a very low level of trust in their leaders,
              > especially
              > outside India. This makes them impossible to effectively function as
              > leaders.
              >
              > Who was elected in the election?
              >
              > Radha Burnier, with a wide margin.
              >
              > After the election did everyone acclaim her win and join her in working to
              > help TS to broadcast theosophy?
              >
              > Not that we have seen.
              >
              > Why?
              >
              > There were allegations that Indian Section did not conduct the voting
              > properly.
              >
              > How did the Indian Section respond to this?
              >
              > The section questioned the allegations and wanted proof.
              >
              > What was the reply?
              >
              > Silence from allegers.
              >
              > Did this end all election related issues?
              >
              > No
              >
              > Why do you say this?
              >
              > Soon after the election, four members of the General Council made an
              > attempt
              > for GC to seize control of the election of the president.
              >
              > Tell me more about it. It gets interesting.
              >
              > An agenda item was sent to the GC to disenfranchise all the members
              > world-wide and the president to be elected (appointed) by GC members. It
              > was
              > to be considered in December meeting, approved and quickly implemented. GC
              > members now have the monopoly to nominate president candidates and this
              > would have made them appoint the president, thus control the president.
              >
              > Looks like a very clever and smart move.
              >
              > How did members find out about it?
              >
              > Through Internet.
              >
              > Why through Internet?
              >
              > The move was super secret. It was so secret that even long-time members and
              > workers at Olcott and other National and International Headquarters did not
              > know about it. They all learnt about it from Internet. When this was
              > discovered, it was publicized on Internet since Internet is outside the
              > control of TS.
              >
              > What was the reaction of members?
              >
              > Shock and dismay. They could not believe what their leaders are upto.
              >
              > Why do they do it?
              >
              > Just to seize power through backdoor after their candidate was badly
              > defeated in the election.
              >
              > Was this disenfranchisement approved in the GC meeting?
              >
              > No. It did not come up.
              >
              > How often GC meet?
              >
              > Once a year.
              >
              > How open are the GC meeting agenda and its proceedings?
              >
              > Super secret.
              >
              > Is TS a secret society?
              >
              > No
              >
              > Why then is the secrecy?
              >
              > No body knows. Needs to ask our elected leaders.
              >
              > Does the secrecy help?
              >
              > Yes, surely. It helps the GC members to keep secret from the membership,
              > the
              > issues, deliberations, views and voting of individual GC members.
              >
              > Has any attempt been made by GC members to make the agenda and proceedings
              > transparent?
              >
              > Not that we know of.
              >
              > Were any important matters transacted in the last meeting?
              >
              > Nothing other than appointment of VP and GC members.
              >
              > Anything significant about these appointments?
              >
              > Yes. There was a significant block of GC members who opposed all the
              > appointments even though all the nominees are experienced, exceptional,
              > long
              > term dedicated, very knowledgeable highly regarded members.
              >
              > Do you know who were the members of this block?
              >
              > No. It should be the same members who wanted to defeat Radha Burnier.
              >
              > Is this kind of deep division in the GC voting normal?
              >
              > Not at all. Usually voting is unanimous.
              >
              > Why is the deep division important?
              >
              > It shows a determined group trying to oppose every nomination and possibly
              > obstruct the administration.
              >
              > How does it affect TS and theosophy?
              >
              > This division can only hurt the work of TS and theosophy.
              >
              > Why?
              >
              > Anything on Internet is like Akashic records. It is archived for ever.
              > Anyone can search for them.
              >
              > How does the archived information affect TS and theosophy?
              >
              > Anyone newly interested theosophy and TS will find all the past info and
              > would be confused and wonder what kind of things go on in the TS. Do
              > leaders
              > practice what they preach or there is a serious disconnect between the
              > object of TS and the motto of TS and what they practice?
              >
              > Has any of the present, past leaders and scholars, theosophical writers,
              > lecturers, aspiring chelas who have witnessed all of the above, have come
              > out openly to improve the above situation?
              >
              > No. Almost all of them are standing silent in the sidelines.
              >
              > Why?
              >
              > A $64,000 question. May be the fear of being marginalised by the elected
              > leaders.
              >
              > If the present condition continues, what is likely to happen?
              >
              > Membership in India will continue to grow as it has been in the past.
              > Membership outside India will be going down like it has happened in the
              > past. We may even see Sections disappearing.
              >
              > What can an ordinary member do to help?
              >
              > Talk to other members and your leaders. Tell them about the serious
              > situation. If need be, get new leaders who are committed to theosophy and
              > TS
              > and interested in unification.
              >
              > Is this document copyrighted?
              >
              > No. You can freely copy and distribute to anyone in any medium. When
              > interests of TS and theosophy are involved, copyrighting is simply silly
              > and
              > childish.
              >
              > M K Ramadoss
              >
              > There is No Religion Higher Than Truth
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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