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Re: [bn-study] Re: "THE ROAD TO HELL IS PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS"

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  • Compiler
    Ramprakash, I m glad you think it is a useful idea for consideration by many people in our Theosophical Movement. I too don t have much to offer other than the
    Message 1 of 1 , Jul 16, 2001
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      Ramprakash,

      I'm glad you think it is a useful idea for consideration by many people in our
      Theosophical Movement. I too don't have much to offer other than the overall
      "starting-idea", and what I have volunteered to do in the rough proposal itself. I
      can never be one of the writers on the "United Team", as I'm not capable or
      knowledgeable enough -- other than in an overall "general" way.

      So whether the starting-idea, as presented, is useful or not, liked or not, at
      this point in time, I think I have offered enough ideas to at least be more than
      understandable as to what it is all about. In the final analysis it might only
      take one or more people who DO see it as strategically useful, who decide that
      they DO want to do it, and who DO have the skills and know-how, who will get it
      all going for our Movement. So whether it begins to happen now, a little later in
      time, or way, way off in the future, my mission is sort of accomplished, and that
      was to present it as best that I am capable of to my fellow Theosophists.

      Fraternally,

      John DeSantis
      (Compiler)
      -------

      Ramprakash wrote:

      > Dear Compliler,
      >
      > Your idea is excellent but many of us are not responding mainly because
      > of time and other personal constraints. On my part I fully endorse your
      > plans and when I am able to spare time and energy I would do what I
      > can--though qualitaitively it may not be of much worth.
      >
      > I do not agree with some opinion expressed that it is going to bring
      > attacks on Theosophy and the 'United Team.' As long as we keep off
      > personalities, and if we follow the wise policy of Robert Crosbie in working
      > impersonally, and only addressing issues of great importance to the world no
      > such attacks comes, and even if they do, they will not have much effect.
      >
      > If and when the 'United Team' comes into being the effectiveness of its
      > work depends on IMPERSONALITY. That is the key to success. The team should
      > have HPB's Five Messages to American Theosophists as the beacon light to
      > guide them at every step. It must be constantly referred to by the team
      > members privately amongst themselves in order to keep the collective work on
      > proper course so that the many insidious pit falls HPB painstakingly pointed
      > to us--which, unfortunately, were not heeded by the Theosophists of 19th
      > c.with the sad results we all know-- are successfully avoided. UNITY and
      > IMPERSONALITY. If these two principles are scrupulously kept success is
      > sure.
      >
      > ----------------------
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      >
      > From: Compiler <compiler@...>
      > To: <study@...>
      > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 8:32 AM
      > Subject: [bn-study] "THE ROAD TO HELL IS PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS"
      >
      > In sincerely trying to present a "starting-idea" plan of action to
      > "Unite" us (in the copy of it below this short note), I now feel that I
      > have opened doors that may even divide us further, and keep thinking of
      > my action as related to the above quote in the heading. Not being
      > qualified to offer much more, I leave it to others to consider
      > discussing coming together in some way as the picture painted in the
      > rough proposal and suggestions, or not. I want to spend most of my time
      > and energy on what I consider a Theosophical Project, one that I had a
      > vision of myself, trying to help humanity with this economic project
      > that I feel is very important:
      > http://www.PublicAndPrivateEnterprise.org/. On July 21st I will be
      > sending out 205 1-page letters to all of the nations in the world via
      > their Missions to the United Nations in New York City, and to 11 major
      > media outlets, for starters. When I actually mail the letters on the
      > 21st, I will then activate a link on my economic web site to a copy of
      > it. I will, whenever I have the time and energy, also continue to add
      > more articles to the WisdomWorld.org web site. Please do not be insulted
      > with any messages aimed my way that I do not respond to. Finally: The
      > only thing that I want to add to the below message at this time is this
      > idea: That maybe, just maybe our THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT will only have a
      > chance to come together, and write together, if ALL articles are ALWAYS
      > freshly written, and point to NO ONE, and to the words of NO ONE; and
      > when they do point to someone, that it is only HPB and the ADEPTS --
      > since these are the people we surely all have something in common with,
      > and can rally around.
      >
      > Fraternally yours in Universal Brotherhood,
      >
      > John DeSantis
      > (Compiler)
      > -------
      >
      > A "UNITED ACTION" FOR OUR THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT
      >
      > =====================
      > PRELIMINARY NOTE: This letter is based on a message that I recently
      > E-mailed to 31 Theosophists, privately (on June 18th). I have edited,
      > re-written, and shortened it a great deal for this public forum, as well
      > as taking out all of their names and e-mail addresses.
      > =====================
      >
      > It is a message that I think ties in nicely with, and should add to, the
      > conversation going on (presently on bn-study) about a "United"
      > Theosophical Movement.
      >
      > It is aimed at all dedicated, knowledgeable, and skilled Theosophists,
      > worldwide.
      >
      > It is kind of like an an "Open Letter" presenting, for consideration, a
      > proposal for the building of a "UNITED TEAM" action within the worldwide
      > "THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT".
      >
      > I must admit, and I want it to be very clear, that I'm just a
      > Theosophical "generalist", and am not much on details the way many
      > Theosophists are. I'm just a not-so-skilled or scholarly Theosophist who
      > happens to, overall, in general, recognize what Theosophy truly is, have
      > a large vision for our Movement, which I'm weak in skillfully
      > presenting, as this letter clearly shows. But I have written it in the
      > hopes of inspiring other wise and skilled Theosophists to maybe come
      > together and do something like I have long envisioned for our somewhat
      > broken and somewhat unfriendly Theosophical groups -- especially all of
      > the Theosophists from the different organizations (as well as those from
      > none) who now publish, and all those who write for, the many different
      > publications, both printed and on-line.
      >
      > In trying to set the stage a little, here are some of my thoughts about
      > this:
      >
      > First let me say that it has been and is my mission, as my introductions
      > on the WisdomWorld.org web site clearly show, to try and "Unite"
      > Theosophists from all of the organizations to work (and write) together
      > in reaching out to humanity, irregardless of what went on in the past.
      > With the over 1,100 articles that I have so far placed on the site, I
      > try to make sure that all readers, especially newcomers, have a chance
      > to check out a large sample of the high caliber of Theosophy which has
      > been presented by THEOSOPHY magazine for the last 89 years -- which
      > clearly shows their mission and style of pointing to the original
      > teachers, HPB and WQJ. -- and that they will be part of this "United"
      > team action.
      >
      > I am mostly concerned with present-day humanity, besides having access
      > to the original literature, always having access to, whether it happens
      > now or in the near or far away future, a "Team" of present-day "United"
      > Theosophists who can very wisely, knowledgeably, and skillfully interact
      > with humanity on every important subject under the sun.
      >
      > A great deal of what I have always aspired this "United Team" project to
      > eventually be, how it might interact with humanity, etc., etc., is found
      > in the right-hand column of the "Main Page" of my web site, and
      > continues on another page via a link at the bottom of what is said
      > there. After you finish reading this letter, please carefully read those
      > "Introductions" to the WisdomWorld.org site in order to see how I speak
      > to humanity about this; the links to them are found at the end of this
      > letter. There are many paragraphs on both pages that speak in some way
      > to humanity about this proposed "United Team". Even though my writing in
      > the Introductions is done in a very amateurish way, I am sure it is at
      > least clear enough to paint a good enough starting picture for everyone
      > to think about.
      >
      > I feel if this kind of coming together is not done by wise and
      > knowledgeable Theosophists, from all organizations, and from none, in
      > close association, of course, with the "ORIGINAL" Theosophical
      > literature, and our Movement stays fractured, and endlessly arguing and
      > fighting over what went on way back when (even though all this history
      > has its place), we are unwisely doing the wrong thing, overall, in
      > general, to the worldwide fraternity of Adepts, to their direct agents,
      > HPB and WQJ, and to humanity as a whole.
      >
      > I humbly suggest that our worldwide Theosophical Movement should try and
      > pull together a "United Team", one that presents endless writings
      > dealing with all that affects humanity today, and on into the future, in
      > a new publication, whatever it may be named, and even if just on the
      > web, for starters. And that every web site within the Theosophical arena
      > should put a link to this same one site, on their own sites. Even though
      > each group continues doing whatever it does, in whatever publications,
      > and in whatever ways, the same as now, if each also had a link to this
      > "United" publication, we may, as a Movement, begin to do better among
      > ourselves and in catching the attention of humanity, and hopefully, the
      > attention of the Adepts themselves, to a point, after a while, where
      > they might even begin to be impressed enough with our "United" action to
      > send in articles and series of articles, because we are finally working
      > together, in the way they probably hope we would and should.
      >
      > Should this new publication be like any existing Theosophical
      > publications, either those in print or on-line? To this I have to say,
      > NO, I don't think so, as will be explained further on.
      >
      > I look forward to the day when something like this for our Movement
      > comes together in a definite way, and I am able to then change what I
      > say on those two introductory pages of my web site, so that it then fits
      > whatever is created by a "United Team" of wise and skilled Theosophists
      > -- and is written in a much better way (or everything pertaining to the
      > "Team" is even deleted, if that is then best) -- Hopefully with the help
      > and/or suggestions of the "Team", so that I don't embarrass it with my
      > amateur writing in my Introductions on the WisdomWorld.org web site.
      >
      > I'm offering a few starting-ideas here based on everything that I have
      > posted above and in the Introduction on the "Main Page" of my web site,
      > which, as said, continues in the "Introductory Brochure" page of the
      > site, concerning this proposed "United Team" action. Those Introductions
      > will make clearer these suggestions and proposals -- especially because
      > so much is said in them (to humanity) concerning the "United Team"
      > proposal. I have woven the subject throughout the Introductions and
      > Final Comments on the web site. By the way, for those of you who have
      > read the "Introductory Brochure" page in the past, I want you to know
      > that I have extensively edited and re-wrote it on June 14, 2001, trying
      > hard to improve it.
      >
      > So with the stage set a little for everyone who reads this:
      >
      > I suggest that endless topics should be written about, topics dealing
      > with subjects like social problems of every kind, education, health,
      > science, religion, philosophy, history, etc. and so on; topics that will
      > be constantly presented in series of articles as well as stand-alone
      > articles; even in different categories of groupings of articles; and
      > steadily, so as to always be current and up to date with evolving events
      > -- being always contemporary. I suggest, simply as reference material,
      > reviewing the style of some of the series of articles presented on the
      > WisdomWorld.org site as examples and samples, for starters. The bottom
      > line is that it should be an endless ongoing project, dealing with the
      > day to day, week to week, year to year experiences of humanity; meaning,
      > for example, that some series (or groupings) of articles, on many
      > subjects, should never actually have an ending point, as they steadily
      > comment, in the Light of Theosophy, on scientific directions taken and
      > progress in every field, as well as on humanity's many social problems.
      >
      > I also suggest that we strongly consider having a skilled and
      > professional Media and Press section for our "Movement's" "United Team"
      > action, so that it can regularly communicate with the print and online
      > publications in the world, in a way that is accepted as routine, like,
      > for example, an AP (Associated Press), a Reuters, etc., and little by
      > little aim to also secure, because becoming respected and in-demand, in
      > every important field, including the NEWS arena, invitations to have
      > either daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, or once in a while column
      > space in many publications, both print and electronic.
      >
      > I suggest, for consideration, that all articles are always contemporary,
      > fresh, and originally written by our Movement's proposed new group, and
      > ONLY referring to, when it does actually refer to past teachers and
      > writers, HPB, WQJ, and the Adepts. Why? So as not to naturally open the
      > lower-nature door of any one associated with the new "United Team", or
      > any organization that our "United Team" members belong to; so that no
      > one feels in any way slighted or disturbed or angry or jealous, etc.
      > This would be a wise strategic move and method on our part, so that we
      > CAN MORE EASILY create an atmosphere where we can work together and
      > leave all past problems behind. We would also strategically leave
      > behind, in this new publication at least, any problems for our Movement
      > that past workers and leaders may have made; by this I mean with any
      > distortions of the Teaching, as well as with personality problems,
      > backstabbing, jockeying for power and position, and so on.
      >
      > Each writer can post and show our new "United" group each and every
      > proposed article on a new and unique web site that makes it easy as pie
      > for everyone to privately collaborate, without using e-mail. Any
      > article, or any number of articles, can be constantly worked on, as they
      > are always posted and showing; and each paragraph in each article has a
      > tiny link to press on so that any of the members of the "Team" can
      > suggest a rewrite, add an idea, do some editing, and so on, until the
      > entire group agrees that the article is ready to be presented, and is
      > strictly in line with true and undistorted Theosophy. A fellow
      > Theosophist first introduced this unique site to us, which all of us can
      > use, for this writing project or for any other collaborative work, in
      > one of his messages to the BN and theos-talk forums. This is the unique
      > site that is well worth checking out and knowing about:
      > http://www.quicktopic.com/
      >
      > Whether or not all articles presented to humanity by this "United Team"
      > should be either signed by a particular writer or writers, unsigned, or
      > simply delivered and presented when finished as a collaborative effort
      > by all of the writers-editors (the "United Team") is something that the
      > working group that may, hopefully, come together needs to carefully
      > think about.
      >
      > Before I continue, here are some selected excerpts, which may help give
      > some more food for thought to everyone, from a couple of e-mail
      > responses to me by a fellow Theosophist, which offer some starting ideas
      > on how to think about and go about this project, many of which are
      > similar to my own, whether expressed by me or not. He is a Theosophist
      > whom many of you know, or know of, as he participates in some of the
      > on-line forums on Blavatsky Net and theos-talk, as well as in many
      > scientific forums elsewhere. He is an old, skilled, and very
      > knowledgeable professional in the media and publishing worlds, among
      > many other fields:
      >
      > =====================
      > Selected excerpts from his 1st letter:
      > =====================
      >
      > John,
      >
      > ... I think ... topics ... dealing with "contemporary world problems"
      > ... should be the sole purpose of any new magazine in the field.
      >
      > In my view the ... Online Magazine ... should publish only articles that
      > have relevance (from a "Wisdom Teaching" [theosophical-solutions] point
      > of view) to all of the varied problems plaguing the world today due to
      > what the Buddhists would call, "wrong view"... (Whether scientific,
      > religious, technological, governmental, social, philosophical, cultural,
      > ecological, medical, psychological, judicial, correctional, commercial,
      > economical, etc., etc.) Thus, it can attract editorial writers,
      > advisors, activist-authors, group leaders, etc., with knowledgeable
      > backgrounds in all fields.
      >
      > ... But ... no dependence on advertisers, and writers could have much
      > more editorial freedom... To call a spade a spade, so to speak -- as
      > well as to advocate radical changes in the way the world presently
      > works. ... I like the idea of a (r)evolutionary approach that pulls no
      > punches, and can work toward upsetting the apple carts of the greed
      > merchants, as well as awaken the world to the emancipating power of
      > sound theosophical thinking in practical application. ...
      >
      > ... for starters -- roughly to frame out an editorial goal and author's
      > style ... Articles might be contributed by anyone who not only has a
      > sound understanding and knowledge of the theosophical principles, but
      > can make a good case for applying such knowledge, as well as
      > promulgating it (using the common "language of this age") -- within the
      > framework of the actual world conditions that exist today -- with the
      > consideration that such conditions could be changed and problems solved
      > through application of theosophical thought and unified action.
      >
      > These articles should be understandable by everyone, regardless of their
      > educational level, and should clearly define the problem(s) and the
      > solution(s), as well as give a reasonable and possibly inspiring
      > rationale for each solution based on the fundamental laws and principles
      > of theosophy...
      >
      > The goal of the magazine should be to publish such articles for purposes
      > of helping all of humanity understand the fundamental truths and,
      > ultimately be able to create for themselves a better, and happier world
      > -- free of oppression and discrimination, and based on the principles of
      > altruism and universal brotherhood -- leading (among other positive
      > goals?) to unity in diversity, liberty with responsibility, and self
      > government "of the people, by the people, and for the people," etc.,
      > etc.
      >
      > ... it needs some more thought and bouncing around organizational and
      > operational plans ... I would be glad to work on developing it ... and
      > give whatever assistance I can after the start-up.
      >
      > ... use the Quick Topic [http://www.quicktopic.com/%5d site to work in
      > conjunction with the magazine -- for editorial discussion and work group
      > gathering and planning purposes.
      >
      > =====================
      > Selected excerpts from his 2nd letter:
      > =====================
      >
      > ... doesn't yet have a definitive editorial policy, format, or managing
      > editor, publisher and production manager. ... these projects, if they
      > are to work, would have to have a strong leadership and a very positive
      > course of action as well as an organization plan. For instance, the
      > magazine would need a Publisher/Editor who can hand out assignments,
      > supervise and manage the editing (even if done by online collaboration
      > and consensus), handle the formatting, layout and rewriting, if
      > necessary, and also manage the website and the posting. ... and I don't
      > know who is going to take the reins and act as a strong leader. My take
      > is that unless there is such a leader with great enthusiasm for the
      > "United Team" idea, plus the magazine and other projects it will work
      > on, as well as the time and skill to organize and manage it all -- it
      > could have very little chance of getting off the ground. ... I think it
      > is worth a try to ... find someone to take over and run with your idea.
      > (And that could include concise and complete planning, designing,
      > packaging, proposing, presenting, recruiting, and managing.)
      >
      > ==============
      > End of his selected excerpts.
      > ==============
      >
      > To continue: I suggest that there should never be a deadline for the
      > presentation of any article or series of articles that will be added to
      > this new on-line publication, or any size, or page-number, or
      > length-of-articles limitations. No such pressures of any kind: just
      > calmly and coolly working together to get each article up to speed, so
      > to say, that all agree is absolutely in line with the Teachings --
      > putting each new article up, in whatever section, or series, or grouping
      > on the new web site that it belongs in (the web site would actually be
      > the publication, as far as I see it, for starters); and then the skilled
      > "Media & Press" team announcing it to the world's media, or selected
      > portions of it, according to the particular subject covered.
      >
      > If a working "Team" begins to come together and decides to have a new
      > and separate neutral web site (within and representing our entire
      > worldwide Theosophical Movement), which I personally think is the best
      > way to go, for the reasons given earlier, I volunteer to pay the initial
      > fee, and then each yearly fee for the new web site name that is decided
      > upon, as well as the initial start-up fees and then the ongoing monthly
      > fee for the Host provider where the site will be technically located.
      > But I strategically bow out of having anything to do with creating the
      > new web site and the new magazine and action, or whatever else is put
      > together by a wise group, based on these raw starting ideas, other than
      > always being a part of it by offering comments and suggestions, whenever
      > they occur to me, and helping to proofread articles for the team, when
      > needed. Why? Because I definitely am NOT, in any way, shape, or form,
      > based on long-lived first-hand experience, a capable organizer, writer,
      > or web-site-operating person.
      >
      > Based on our sorry history over the last 125 years, as a very fragmented
      > Theosophical Movement, I suggest that if we are to overcome this, and
      > all that it has done to present Theosophy in a poor light before the
      > world, even making it a laughingstock to some degree, that the wisest
      > and most knowledgeable Theosophists from all organizations, and from
      > none, should very skillfully find a way to come together to present to
      > humanity, on an ongoing basis, the highest and profoundest caliber of
      > Theosophy that is possible -- and always pointing out any and all
      > Theosophy that is to some degree distorted and/or not valid, whenever
      > necessary and possible.
      >
      > Some very important things for everyone to consider, while pondering
      > over this rough proposal in the days, weeks, months, and years to come:
      > If humanity would open-mindedly come-a-calling, so to say, at the
      > highest levels of science, religion, philosophy, and education, as well
      > as the media in general, worldwide, inviting our Theosophical
      > participation in endless ways on endless subjects, is the condition of
      > our Theosophical Movement, from the point of view of, "If the Student is
      > Ready (humanity as a whole) the Teacher will Appear", presently ready to
      > put our best foot forward in a "UNITED" way, and actually win the day in
      > the eyes of a watching world? Would each of us, who come from different
      > organizations, with their various publications, web sites, on-line
      > forums, activities and projects, etc., etc., be satisfied if any
      > particular one, and not our own, spoke for Theosophy and the
      > Theosophical Movement? I could be dead wrong, but I suspect not, on both
      > questions. But if we together, for starters, create a "neutral" web
      > site, from the point of view of everyone in our Movement, which IS, or
      > contains, a publication that is made up of wise and skilled and
      > dedicated theosophists, who are members, associates, and writers from
      > all of them, as well as all those wise and skillful writers who are
      > members of none, which might eventually, if we do this right, also
      > include some Adepts, then the climate would be completely different for
      > each of us individually, as well as for our Movement as a whole. We
      > would be operating in a very friendly "United Team" atmosphere where we
      > are able to put out the wisest, profoundest, truest, and best Theosophy
      > at all times -- and in a collaborative way, to make sure of this, while
      > drawing ourselves, little by little, ever closer together into a
      > Theosophical "nucleus" of brotherhood founded, even if only for
      > starters, on a skillful and effective MOVEMENT-wide working
      > relationship.
      >
      > OK, this should now be enough additional starting-ideas and information
      > for everyone to have absorbed, so as to coordinate with what has been
      > presented on my WisdomWorld.org web site for a long time now (in the
      > first 3 links that are found below), concerning the "United Action"
      > proposal in the "Introductions".
      >
      > Hopefully I have offered enough starting-ideas so that a dialogue
      > between many individuals and groups of theosophists who see this letter
      > can now begin and maybe, hopefully, a large and steady "United Team
      > Action" will begin to build and grow for our eternal Theosophical
      > Movement.
      >
      > Fraternally yours in Universal Brotherhood,
      >
      > John DeSantis
      > (Compiler)
      > -------
      >
      > This is the link to the "Main Page" of my web site, and the
      > Introduction:
      > http://www.wisdomworld.org/index.html
      >
      > This is the link to the continuation of the above "Main Page". It is
      > entitled the "Introductory Brochure":
      > http://www.wisdomworld.org/intro.html
      >
      > This is the link to my "Final Comments" that follow the 166 compiled
      > articles in the Introductory, "Volume 1--> Setting the Stage" book:
      > http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting/conclusion.html
      >
      > -------
      >
      > ...and here are:
      >
      > The Index page of the Introductory, "Setting the Stage" book:
      > http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting.html
      >
      > The page where "Additional" articles are steadily being added:
      > http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html
      >
      > -------
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