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". . . true Theosophists will never accept ...a Christ made Flesh. . . "

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  • D. H. Caldwell <info@blavatskyarchives.c
    H.P. Blavatsky wrote in December 1887: In CARNALIZING the central figure of the New Testament, in imposing the dogma of the Word MADE FLESH, the Latin Church
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 19, 2003
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      H.P. Blavatsky wrote in December 1887:

      In CARNALIZING the central figure of the New Testament, in imposing
      the dogma of the Word MADE FLESH, the Latin Church sets up a doctrine
      diametrically opposed to the tenets of Buddhist and Hindu Esotericism
      and the Greek Gnosis. Therefore, there will always be an abyss
      between the East and the West, as long as neither of these dogmas
      yields. Almost 2,000 years of bloody persecution against HERETICS
      and INFIDELS by the Church looms before the Oriental nations to
      prevent them from renouncing their philosophic doctrines in favor of
      that which degrades the CHRISTOS principle. [372-373]

      ...when one legend based upon these mysteries attempts to arrogate
      exclusive rights to itself above all the rest; when it declares
      itself an infallible dogma to force the popular faith into a dead
      letter belief, to the detriment of the true metaphysical meaning,
      such legend must be denounced, its veil torn away, and itself
      displayed in its nakedness to the world! [374]. . .

      Whether it be Krishna, Buddha, Sosiosh, Horus or Christos, it is a
      universal PRINCIPLE. . .

      ...the Christians, by localizing and isolating this great Principle,
      and denying it to any other man except Jesus of Nazareth (or the
      Nazar), CARNALIZE the Christos of the Gnostics; that alone prevents
      them having any point in common with the disciples of the Archaic
      Wisdom. . . . [374]

      . . . I have not the slightest intention of hurting the feelings of
      those who believe in Jesus, the carnalized Christ, but I feel myself
      compelled to emphasize our own belief. . . .

      . . . It is in this ancient wisdom, and in the Christos of the
      Gnostics under its various names, that the Theosophists, disciples of
      the Mahatmas, believe. . . . [385]

      . . . true Theosophists will never accept ...a Christ made
      Flesh. . . .[390]

      Quoted from H.P. Blavatsky's COLLECTED WRITINGS, Volume VIII.

      COMPARE THE ABOVE WITH WHAT ALICE BAILEY WROTE ABOUT THE CHRIST:

      They will prepare and work for conditions in the world in which
      Christ can move freely among men, in bodily Presence; He need not
      then remain in His present retreat in Central Asia. (13 - 589/90).

      His reappearance and His consequent work cannot be confined to one
      small locality or domain, unheard of by the great majority, as was
      the case when He was here before. The radio, the press, and the
      dissemination of news, will make His coming different to that of any
      previous Messenger; the swift modes of transportation will make Him
      available to countless millions, and by boat, rail and plane they can
      reach Him: through television, His face can be made familiar to all,
      and verily "every eye shall see Him". (8 - 16).
      The Reappearance of the Christ - Chapter II - The World Today
      www.netnews.org/bk/reappearance/reap1005.html

      See more from Alice Bailey's pen in the following sources:

      The Christ
      http://bernie.cncfamily.com/spi/bailey/christ.htm

      Reappearance of the Christ
      http://bernie.cncfamily.com/spi/bailey/reappearance.htm


      Another extract. This time from Bailey's AUTOBIOGRAPHY:

      Another happening about the same time carried conviction to me of
      another world of events. It is something which - at the time it
      occurred - I could not have imagined, having no indication that such
      a happening was possible. Twice I had a dream in full waking
      consciousness. I called it a dream because I could not imagine at
      that time what else it could possibly be. Now I know that I
      participated in something that really took place. At the time of this
      dual occurrence this knowledge lay outside my field of ordinary
      recognition. Herein lies the value of the happening. There was no
      opportunity for autosuggestion, wishful thinking or an over-vivid
      imagination.

      I twice (whilst living and working in Great Britain) took part in an
      extraordinary ceremony and it was nearly two [39] decades after my
      participation that I discovered what it was all about. The ceremony
      in which I took part, I eventually found out, actually takes place
      every year at the time of the "Full Moon of May." It is the full moon
      of the Hindu calendar month of Vaisakha (Taurus) under its ancient
      name. This month is of vital importance to all Buddhists and the
      first day of this month is the national holiday known as the Hindu
      New Year's Day. This tremendous event takes place each year in the
      Himalayas. It is held in a valley and is not a mythical, subconscious
      happening but a real, physical plane occurrence. I found myself
      (whilst wide awake) in this valley and forming part of a vast,
      orderly crowd - mostly oriental but with a large sprinkling of
      occidental people. I knew exactly where I stood in that crowd and
      realized that it was my correct place and indicated my spiritual
      status.
      http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/autobiography/auto1015.html


      The valley was large and oval shaped, rocky and with high mountains
      on either side. The people, crowded in the valley, faced towards the
      East and towards a narrow, bottlenecked passage at the end. Just
      before this funnel shaped passage there stood an immense rock, rising
      out of the floor of the valley like a great table, and on the top of
      the rock was a crystal bowl which looked as if it was three feet
      across. This bowl was full of water. Standing ahead of the crowd and
      in front of the rock were three Figures. They formed a triangle and,
      to my surprise, the one at the apex of the triangle seemed to me to
      be the Christ. The waiting crowd appeared to be in constant movement,
      and as they moved they formed great and familiar symbols - the Cross
      in its various forms, the circle with the point in the center, the
      five-pointed star and various interlaced triangles. It was almost
      like a solemn, rhythmic dance, very slow and dignified but quite
      soundless. Suddenly, the three Figures before the rock stretched out
      Their arms towards the heavens. The [40] crowd froze into immobility.
      At the far end of the bottleneck a Figure was seen in the sky,
      hovering over the passage and slowly approaching the rock. I knew in
      some subjective and certain fashion that it was the Buddha. I had a
      sense of recognition. I knew at the same time that in no way was our
      Christ belittled. I got a glimpse of the unity and of the Plan to
      which the Christ, the Buddha and all the Masters are eternally
      dedicated. I realized for the first time, though in a dim and
      uncertain manner, the unity of all manifestation and that all
      existence - the material world, the spiritual realm, the aspiring
      disciple, the evolving animal and the beauty of the vegetable and
      mineral kingdoms - constituted one divine and living whole which was
      moving on to the demonstration of the glory of the Lord. I grasped -
      faintly - that human beings needed the Christ and the Buddha and all
      the Members of the planetary Hierarchy, and that there were
      happenings and events of far greater moment to the progress of the
      race than those recorded in history. I was left bewildered, because
      to me (at that time) the heathen were still heathen and I was a
      Christian. Deep and fundamental doubts were left in my mind. My life
      was henceforth colored (and is today) by the knowledge that there
      were Masters and subjective events upon the inner spiritual planes
      and in the world of meaning which were a part of life itself, perhaps
      the most important part. How could I fit these things into my limited
      theology and my daily life. I did not know.
      It is said that one's deepest and most intimate spiritual experiences
      should never be discussed or related. This is fundamentally true and
      no true "experiencer" is the least interested in such discussions.
      The deeper and more vital the experience, the less temptation is
      there to tell it. Only beginners with a theoretical, imaginative
      event in their [41] consciousness claim such experiences. But with
      deliberation I have related the two above subjective events (or was
      the first subjective?) because it is time that people of standing and
      who are recognized as sane and intelligent should add their testimony
      to that of the frequently discredited mystic and occultist. I have a
      good standing as an intelligent, normal woman, an effective executive
      and creative writer and I choose to add my certain knowledge and
      conviction to the witness of many others down the ages.
      http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/autobiography/auto1016.html

      Daniel H. Caldwell
      BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES
      http://hpb.cc
    • Daniel
      H.P. Blavatsky wrote in December 1887: In CARNALIZING the central figure of the New Testament, in imposing the dogma of the Word MADE FLESH, the Latin Church
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 7, 2013
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        H.P. Blavatsky wrote in December 1887:

        "In CARNALIZING the central figure of the New Testament, in imposing
        the dogma of the Word MADE FLESH, the Latin Church sets up a doctrine
        diametrically opposed to the tenets of Buddhist and Hindu Esotericism
        and the Greek Gnosis. Therefore, there will always be an abyss
        between the East and the West, as long as neither of these dogmas
        yields. Almost 2,000 years of bloody persecution against HERETICS
        and INFIDELS by the Church looms before the Oriental nations to
        prevent them from renouncing their philosophic doctrines in favor of
        that which degrades the CHRISTOS principle. [372-373]

        ...when one legend based upon these mysteries attempts to arrogate
        exclusive rights to itself above all the rest; when it declares
        itself an infallible dogma to force the popular faith into a dead
        letter belief, to the detriment of the true metaphysical meaning,
        such legend must be denounced, its veil torn away, and itself
        displayed in its nakedness to the world! [374]. . .

        Whether it be Krishna, Buddha, Sosiosh, Horus or Christos, it is a
        universal PRINCIPLE. . .

        ...the Christians, by localizing and isolating this great Principle,
        and denying it to any other man except Jesus of Nazareth (or the
        Nazar), CARNALIZE the Christos of the Gnostics; that alone prevents
        them having any point in common with the disciples of the Archaic
        Wisdom. . . . [374]

        . . . I have not the slightest intention of hurting the feelings of
        those who believe in Jesus, the carnalized Christ, but I feel myself
        compelled to emphasize our own belief. . . .

        . . . It is in this ancient wisdom, and in the Christos of the
        Gnostics under its various names, that the Theosophists, disciples of
        the Mahatmas, believe. . . . [385]

        . . . true Theosophists will never accept ...a Christ made
        Flesh. . . .[390]

        Quoted from H.P. Blavatsky's COLLECTED WRITINGS, Volume VIII.

        H. P. Blavatsky in her E.S. Instruction No. I., 1889 wrote:

        ". . . A new and rapidly growing danger. . . is threatening . . . the
        spread of the pure Esoteric Philosophy and knowledge. . . . I
        allude to those charlatanesque imitations of Occultism and
        Theosophy. . . . By pandering to the prejudices of people, and
        especially by adopting the FALSE IDEAS of a personal God and A
        PERSONAL, CARNALIZED SAVIOUR, as the groundwork of their teaching,
        the leaders of this 'swindle' (for such it is) are endeavoring to
        draw men to them and in particular to turn Theosophists from the true
        path." Caps added.

        "Wherever [genuine] Theosophy spreads, there it is impossible for the
        deluded to mislead, or the deluded to follow. It opens a new path, a
        forgotten philosophy which has lived through the ages, a knowledge of
        the psychic nature of man, which reveals alike the true status of the
        Catholic saint, and the spiritualistic medium the Church condemns. It
        gathers reformers together, throws light on their way, and teaches
        them how to work towards a desirable end with most effect, but
        forbids any to assume a crown or sceptre, and no less delivers from a
        futile crown of thorns. Mesmerisms and astral influences fall back,
        and the sky grows clear enough for higher light. It hushes the "Lo
        here! and lo there!" and declares the Christ, like the kingdom of
        heaven, to be within. It guards and applies every aspiration and
        capacity to serve humanity in any man, and shows him how. It
        overthrows the giddy pedestal, and safely cares for the human being
        on solid ground. Hence, in this way, and in all other ways, it is the
        truest deliverer and saviour of our time."
        Quoted from:
        MODERN APOSTLES AND PSEUDO-MESSIAHS
        by H. P. Blavatsky
        http://blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/ModernApostlesAndPseudoMessiahs.htm

        ". . . "the coming of Christ," means the presence of CHRISTOS in a
        regenerated world, and not at all the actual coming in body
        of "Christ" Jesus; . . . this Christ is to be sought neither in the
        wilderness nor "in the inner chambers," nor in the sanctuary of any
        temple or church built by man; for Christ--the true esoteric SAVIOUR--
        is no man, but the DIVINE PRINCIPLE in every human being. He who
        strives to resurrect the Spirit crucified in him by his own
        terrestrial passions, and buried deep in the "sepulchre" of his
        sinful flesh; he who has the strength to roll back the stone of
        matter from the door of his own inner sanctuary, he has the risen
        Christ in him. The "Son of Man" is no child of the bond-woman--flesh,
        but verily of the free-woman--Spirit, the child of man's own deeds,
        and the fruit of his own spiritual labour."

        "Many and many a time the warning about the "false Christs" and
        prophets who shall lead people astray has been interpreted by
        charitable Christians, the worshippers of the dead-letter of their
        scripture, as applying to mystics generally, and Theosophists most
        especially. The recent work by Mr. Pember, "Earth's Earliest Ages,"
        is a proof of it. Nevertheless, it seems very evident that the words
        in Matthew's Gospel and others can hardly apply to Theosophists. For
        these were never found saying that Christ is "Here" or "There," in
        wilderness or city, and least of all in the "inner chamber" behind
        the altar of any modern church. Whether Heathen or Christian by
        birth, they refuse to materialise and thus degrade that which is the
        purest and grandest ideal--the symbol of symbols--namely, the
        immortal Divine Spirit in man, whether it be called Horus, Krishna,
        Buddha, or Christ."
        Quoted from:
        THE ESOTERIC CHARACTER OF THE GOSPELS
        by H.P. Blavatsky
        http://blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/EsotericCharacterOfTheGospels.htm

        Daniel
        http://hpb.cc
      • Jeremy Condick
        A few facts about AAB. She did write about the cosmic Christ and of Jesus Christ both about which HPB also wrote upon. In history there were many sun gods or
        Message 3 of 3 , Jan 7, 2013
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          A few facts about AAB. She did write about the cosmic Christ and of Jesus Christ both about which HPB also wrote upon. In history there were many sun gods or saviours and they were incarnated cyclically and brought a message and teachings of an esoteric nature or varying levels.

          Jesus was overshadowed by the Christ some two thousand years ago approximately give or take the odd century of which makes no difference to an esotericist. It is a fact that he Christ did incarnate through the Master Jesus thus demonstrating the journey of Initiation to humanity and teaching his disciples as HPB informs. They were esoteric teachings and true Christianity is indicated and not churchianity or dodmatised theology although there are members of hierarchy being themselves disciples that work in the various churches working hard to preserve the ancient mysteries and as part of the inner church to await the day of further restoration of those mysteries of occult teachings and restore the minor initiations to humanity in person when the time comes. This is part of the great 'restoration of the mysteries' as partially indicated by HPB.

          There was no decision that HPB knew of that the Christ, which is a term of office and rank, that he would appear again before humanity at some point in the nearer future. That decision was made by the Christ a seventh degree Initiate and the second phase of the three phase instalment of esoteric wisdom was made by the Tibetan DK under conclave agreement of the planetary council. Thus much information on the true and esoteric office and plans and history past and present and some future details were made public.

          Some other disciples also brought what they understood by way of their intuition and inner teaching. This is a fact and it would be the part of wisdom to at least accept in hypothetical manner the possibility that the teachings of the second phase occultism is truth and accurate and to accept the reality of the Christ and his teachings as head of hierarchy and world teacher and personal Master of Chohan KH who is the next in line for that office of World Teacher.

          DK as a fifth degree Master accepted his duty and presented the wisdom under their oversight. The decision was made for a full incarnation to be made at an appropriate time according to world conditions allowing. No dogma is made or intended and it is simply a fact of hierarchical decision and one that should not be lightly rejected by the open minded theosophist not relying on old information on misinterpretation of old discordance by east and west. The east and west will, conditions permitting, be united and the two brothers the Christ and the Buddha will work for its resolution.

          No degradation of the Christos principle is ever made by AAB who endorses and upholds its absolute reality. To Carnalize through dogma is in no part what DK has done but only to bring the facts of a high member of hierarchy. It is not the Latin church that has brought the esoteric words of AAB or DK so the passage is impotent and misplaced and renders all said on this matter by HPB irrelevant to the work of the Tibetan Master. HPB brought the fact of the inner Christ in man but could not bring the fact of The Christ as head of hierarchy directly. Hierarchy does not stand still and the heads make decisions and bring further facts as HPB told us would happen.

          This should be considered as a possible reality and in the light of wisdom be considered as a great and actual truth. It is hierarchy that brings this information on the Christ emphasising love and true brotherhood, and not orthodox theologians "the christians" and this is the distinction not emphasised or been attempted to do so Daniel. So again, the quotes are redundant and misappropriated in their application. The making available of numerous theosophical texts is appreciated, even if the direction against AAB is useful only for proving as poorly presented as has been the case on this forum. In appreciation. JPC.

          > "In CARNALIZING the central figure of the New Testament, in imposing
          > the dogma of the Word MADE FLESH, the Latin Church sets up a doctrine
          > diametrically opposed to the tenets of Buddhist and Hindu Esotericism
          > and the Greek Gnosis. Therefore, there will always be an abyss
          > between the East and the West, as long as neither of these dogmas
          > yields. Almost 2,000 years of bloody persecution against HERETICS
          > and INFIDELS by the Church looms before the Oriental nations to
          > prevent them from renouncing their philosophic doctrines in favor of
          > that which degrades the CHRISTOS principle. [372-373]


          "We beg the reader to remember that we do not mean by Christianity the teachings of Christ, but those of his alleged servants -- the clergy." HPB. ISIS[[Vol. 2, Page]] 374.

          "For the teachings of Christ were occult teachings, which could only be explained at the initiation. They were never intended for the masses, for Jesus forbade the twelve to go to the Gentiles and the Samaritans (Matt. x. 8), and repeated to his disciples that the "mysteries of Heaven" were for them alone, not for the multitudes (Mark iv. 11)." SD II. [[Vol. 2, Page]] 231. HPB.


          > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
          > From: danielhcaldwell@...
          > Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 17:48:33 +0000
          > Subject: theos-talk ". . . true Theosophists will never accept ...a Christ made Flesh. . . "
          >
          > H.P. Blavatsky wrote in December 1887:
          >
          > "In CARNALIZING the central figure of the New Testament, in imposing
          > the dogma of the Word MADE FLESH, the Latin Church sets up a doctrine
          > diametrically opposed to the tenets of Buddhist and Hindu Esotericism
          > and the Greek Gnosis. Therefore, there will always be an abyss
          > between the East and the West, as long as neither of these dogmas
          > yields. Almost 2,000 years of bloody persecution against HERETICS
          > and INFIDELS by the Church looms before the Oriental nations to
          > prevent them from renouncing their philosophic doctrines in favor of
          > that which degrades the CHRISTOS principle. [372-373]
          >
          > ...when one legend based upon these mysteries attempts to arrogate
          > exclusive rights to itself above all the rest; when it declares
          > itself an infallible dogma to force the popular faith into a dead
          > letter belief, to the detriment of the true metaphysical meaning,
          > such legend must be denounced, its veil torn away, and itself
          > displayed in its nakedness to the world! [374]. . .
          >
          > Whether it be Krishna, Buddha, Sosiosh, Horus or Christos, it is a
          > universal PRINCIPLE. . .
          >
          > ...the Christians, by localizing and isolating this great Principle,
          > and denying it to any other man except Jesus of Nazareth (or the
          > Nazar), CARNALIZE the Christos of the Gnostics; that alone prevents
          > them having any point in common with the disciples of the Archaic
          > Wisdom. . . . [374]
          >
          > . . . I have not the slightest intention of hurting the feelings of
          > those who believe in Jesus, the carnalized Christ, but I feel myself
          > compelled to emphasize our own belief. . . .
          >
          > . . . It is in this ancient wisdom, and in the Christos of the
          > Gnostics under its various names, that the Theosophists, disciples of
          > the Mahatmas, believe. . . . [385]
          >
          > . . . true Theosophists will never accept ...a Christ made
          > Flesh. . . .[390]
          >
          > Quoted from H.P. Blavatsky's COLLECTED WRITINGS, Volume VIII.
          >
          > H. P. Blavatsky in her E.S. Instruction No. I., 1889 wrote:
          >
          > ". . . A new and rapidly growing danger. . . is threatening . . . the
          > spread of the pure Esoteric Philosophy and knowledge. . . . I
          > allude to those charlatanesque imitations of Occultism and
          > Theosophy. . . . By pandering to the prejudices of people, and
          > especially by adopting the FALSE IDEAS of a personal God and A
          > PERSONAL, CARNALIZED SAVIOUR, as the groundwork of their teaching,
          > the leaders of this 'swindle' (for such it is) are endeavoring to
          > draw men to them and in particular to turn Theosophists from the true
          > path." Caps added.
          >
          > "Wherever [genuine] Theosophy spreads, there it is impossible for the
          > deluded to mislead, or the deluded to follow. It opens a new path, a
          > forgotten philosophy which has lived through the ages, a knowledge of
          > the psychic nature of man, which reveals alike the true status of the
          > Catholic saint, and the spiritualistic medium the Church condemns. It
          > gathers reformers together, throws light on their way, and teaches
          > them how to work towards a desirable end with most effect, but
          > forbids any to assume a crown or sceptre, and no less delivers from a
          > futile crown of thorns. Mesmerisms and astral influences fall back,
          > and the sky grows clear enough for higher light. It hushes the "Lo
          > here! and lo there!" and declares the Christ, like the kingdom of
          > heaven, to be within. It guards and applies every aspiration and
          > capacity to serve humanity in any man, and shows him how. It
          > overthrows the giddy pedestal, and safely cares for the human being
          > on solid ground. Hence, in this way, and in all other ways, it is the
          > truest deliverer and saviour of our time."
          > Quoted from:
          > MODERN APOSTLES AND PSEUDO-MESSIAHS
          > by H. P. Blavatsky
          > http://blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/ModernApostlesAndPseudoMessiahs.htm
          >
          > ". . . "the coming of Christ," means the presence of CHRISTOS in a
          > regenerated world, and not at all the actual coming in body
          > of "Christ" Jesus; . . . this Christ is to be sought neither in the
          > wilderness nor "in the inner chambers," nor in the sanctuary of any
          > temple or church built by man; for Christ--the true esoteric SAVIOUR--
          > is no man, but the DIVINE PRINCIPLE in every human being. He who
          > strives to resurrect the Spirit crucified in him by his own
          > terrestrial passions, and buried deep in the "sepulchre" of his
          > sinful flesh; he who has the strength to roll back the stone of
          > matter from the door of his own inner sanctuary, he has the risen
          > Christ in him. The "Son of Man" is no child of the bond-woman--flesh,
          > but verily of the free-woman--Spirit, the child of man's own deeds,
          > and the fruit of his own spiritual labour."
          >
          > "Many and many a time the warning about the "false Christs" and
          > prophets who shall lead people astray has been interpreted by
          > charitable Christians, the worshippers of the dead-letter of their
          > scripture, as applying to mystics generally, and Theosophists most
          > especially. The recent work by Mr. Pember, "Earth's Earliest Ages,"
          > is a proof of it. Nevertheless, it seems very evident that the words
          > in Matthew's Gospel and others can hardly apply to Theosophists. For
          > these were never found saying that Christ is "Here" or "There," in
          > wilderness or city, and least of all in the "inner chamber" behind
          > the altar of any modern church. Whether Heathen or Christian by
          > birth, they refuse to materialise and thus degrade that which is the
          > purest and grandest ideal--the symbol of symbols--namely, the
          > immortal Divine Spirit in man, whether it be called Horus, Krishna,
          > Buddha, or Christ."
          > Quoted from:
          > THE ESOTERIC CHARACTER OF THE GOSPELS
          > by H.P. Blavatsky
          > http://blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/EsotericCharacterOfTheGospels.htm
          >
          > Daniel
          > http://hpb.cc
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >


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