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Re: To Mr. Wry

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  • Bhakti Ananda Goswami <bhakti.eohn@veriz
    CLARIFICATION BELOW Dear Mr. Wry, My comments are below at /// Message 10295 From: wry Date: Thu Jan 9, 2003 2:23 pm Subject: Re:
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 10, 2003
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      CLARIFICATION BELOW

      Dear Mr. Wry,

      My comments are below at ///

      Message 10295
      From: "wry" <wry1111@e...>
      Date: Thu Jan 9, 2003 2:23 pm
      Subject: Re: Theos-World Brain-Mind and Consciousness Studies, some
      references from BA Goswami

      Hi.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <bhakti.eohn@v...>
      To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:23 PM
      Subject: Theos-World Brain-Mind and Consciousness Studies, some
      references
      from BA Goswami


      Subject: re karmic preferences/tendencies manifesting as Theosophy,
      RC, Bhakti yoga, science, history, etc ...

      snip


      The History

      <<<The Bhaktivedanta Institute cherishes the privilege to have started
      the world's first graduate degree program (M.S./Ph.D.) in the rapidly
      emerging field of consciousness studies.>>>

      Wry; How can you "cherish the privilege" to have done something which
      you
      have already done?"

      /// If you are so bothered by their grammatical error, or can not
      understand their meaning why don't you write to THEM and discuss it
      with them ? Why take a cheap shot at them on this site? You may be
      an expert polyglot, but sometimes others make grammatical errors when
      writing in a languge that is not their first / natal tongue. It is
      quite possible that this was written by someone from India. I can
      understand their meaning. Is it really SUCH a significant error?
      The B. I. group has produced much of excellence. Nobel Laureates
      have participated in their conferences, which have brought together
      many of the world's best neuroscience biophysics experts. Why make
      such a petty criticism here? If you think that this grammatical
      error is so important and you want to help, contact them and point it
      out.

      ///To all that was contained in that post from me on the B. I. study
      of Consciousness Within Science, is this the kind of response here
      that you think is worthy and appropriate? In terms of clear
      communication, your use of the word "you" both above and below is
      inappropriate, as this letter is a response to my letter, and
      therefore would seem to refer to myself, Bhakti Ananda Goswami. You
      have not identified the writers you are responding to in this post,
      and therefore it appears that the the "you" you are addressing is
      myself. This IS a significant and misleading error.

      >>It is my
      opinion that though consciousness is a 'philosophical' problem, only
      by appealing to the foundational issues of theoretical physics, we
      might be able to solve it.>>

      Wry: Consciousness is not a problem. It is people who are not fully
      conscious but are functioning mechanically and from motives of which
      they are not even aware who are causing all of the problems of
      humanity. When a human being becomes fully conscious, his intelligent
      doing will reorganize material in such a way that many problems will
      be easily solved and others around him will do the same.


      //// So now you are debating with which graduate student? Does it
      matter to you who actually said what ? Do you think that it matters
      to the readers here ? Don't you want your readers to know who the
      person is that you are addressing here ?

      >My research interest is the famous 'EPR
      Paradox', the problem of non-locality and how this relates to
      consciousness studies. The Bhaktivedanta institute has given me the
      opportunity to do this unique research on two very important aspects
      of scientific inquiry: EPR paradox and Consciousness. With its
      completely 'different' research approach, the institute is bound to
      emerge as one of the premier institutes within the frontiers of
      science, in the near future.>>>snip

      Wry: Which "you" will cherish.

      /// Who are you refering to with this "you" ? Why are you taking
      such an attitude to this fellow?

      WRY: I am very interested in science, myself. The problem is that the
      only way a person can study consciousness is by studying himself AS
      HE IS and not as he THINKS he is. It is the "as he thinks he is"
      which creates a lag, by which not only does everything involving
      human relationship and housekeeping of the earth cease to function at
      optimum, but which skews any data, as all data will always be
      subjectively selected. Only by PAYING ATTENTION can questions about
      locality be fully resolved, as, at the peak of the pyramid, material
      reorganizes into a plane. I got a sense from a previous writing of
      yours about transcendence that you understood this (a little), but
      now I wonder. Sadly, scientists tend to miss this, no matter how
      brilliant and sincere they are, and I have seen this time and time
      again. Wry

      /// I clearly labeled the section of my post that was an inclusion
      from the Bhaktivedanta Institute, and included in it the notes on
      their Graduate Students, just so members here could see what some of
      these young scientists are working on. Your above critical response
      seems so entirely inappropriate that I wonder if you actually
      understood what you were reading. I even stated "ps I am not
      affiliated in any way with the B.I." So why are you addressing me
      regarding the work of these B I students ? Why do you consistantly
      take such an attiude towards people ?


      /// Many of your posts here are incredibly arrogant and insulting to
      people. You seem to like to analyze others, but have you analyzed
      why it is that you consistantly treat people here so badly ? Or are
      you oblivious to the fact that you often treat people in such a
      puffed-up offensive manner ?

      /// Normally people become defensive when they think that they have
      come under attack, but you seem defensive or combative a lot of the
      time when no one has even appeared to attacked you. I am not your
      enemy. The B I does not exist to annoy you. Some B I student does
      not require a critical response from you just for having stated a
      premise for his graduate work.

      /// I have been under relentless attack for years because of my
      activism in various human rights causes, and I realize that this has
      had an effect on me. I am now somewhat hyper-vigilant, but realizing
      this, I try to be extra careful not to make erroneous assumptions
      about people. Sometimes however I do make a mistake, for example
      when I did not understand why my personal yahoogroup profile was
      coming up on a link provided by D. Caldwell. As soon as I realized
      that I had made an erroneous assumption that this was his purposeful
      doing, I apologized. It was my mistake and I was wrong to take such
      a defensive tone with him. I even threatened to sue him, momentarily
      thinking that he was persisting in some kind of identity-damage
      campaign against me. However I was relieved and happy to find out
      that it was my error due to not understanding that it was a computer
      glitch that caused it.

      /// Now in your own case, is anyone here really your 'enemy' or
      someone who is trying to injure you in some way ? Is there any
      evidence of real ill-will against you ? Or are you just habitually
      offensive with people ? Grappling over and with IDEAS is not the same
      as fighting with people. I am not personally offended by the honest
      humble opinion of atheists or agnostics, theosophists or new agers
      etc. Can you discuss ideas with people without insulting them ? It
      is uncivilized BEHAVIOR, which causes 'material' offence. For
      instance, if racists didn't BEHAVE like racists, at least their
      hatred would be confined. So whatever the members of this egroup
      THINK, if they are civilized, they will try to live/act by a certain
      standard of CONDUCT. Humility / respect, truthfulness in exchange,
      and avoidance of personal attacks are basic to communicating with
      integrity. This letter is not an attack on you. It is a response to
      observing your behavior with others for over an month now. Why are
      you so arrogant and insulting to people ? It is unneccessary.

      Lighten up.

      best wishes,

      BA Goswami
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