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RE: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?

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  • Anita M
    I can understand that, and I wouldn’t blame her, either. Anita M. Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult that you do. -
    Message 1 of 29 , May 6, 2007
      I can understand that, and I wouldn’t blame her, either.



      Anita M.



      "Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult
      that you do." - Elizabeth Goudge

      _____

      From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      olive_e_thomas
      Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 10:27 PM
      To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



      The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
      personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
      book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
      success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Anita M
      No worries; we know what you meant ;-) Anita M. Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult that you do. - Elizabeth Goudge
      Message 2 of 29 , May 6, 2007
        No worries; we know what you meant ;-)



        Anita M.



        "Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult
        that you do." - Elizabeth Goudge

        _____

        From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        nutsaboutclara
        Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:38 AM
        To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



        WHOOPS!!!!! I meant "emptiness." Sorry, folks!

        -Dario.

        --- In thenewcovenoflouise
        <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com,
        nutsaboutclara
        <no_reply@...> wrote:
        >
        > I don't think she feared success; I think she hated its intensity
        > more than anything else. Plus, she hated, I think, the empty that
        > accompanies success sometimes. But, that's just a thought of mine.
        >
        > -Dario.
        >
        >
        > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
        <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com,
        "Anita M"
        > <Woodsy@> wrote:
        > >
        > > True, she pretty much said she "raised herself." There are
        several
        > reasons
        > > she didn't want to succeed, some we can guess at and some we'll
        > never know.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > AM
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > _____
        > >
        > > From: thenewcovenoflouise
        <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com
        > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouise
        <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of
        > > nutsaboutclara
        > > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:34 PM
        > > To: thenewcovenoflouise
        <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psycological
        Profile?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Yes she was, Jennifer. A fascinating person, indeed. Yes, I agree
        > > with you that Brooksie was a bit afraid of success, but, I think
        > her
        > > troubles were that both of her parents didn't give her enough
        > > attention that they should have to her and her siblings. As
        > Brooksie
        > > herself said one time, just to paraphrase her, her parents were
        > more
        > > in love with each other than with their kids. They prefered that
        > > their childern, or "squaling brats" fend for themselves.
        > >
        > > -Dario.
        > >
        > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
        > > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
        > brooks@yahoogroups. <mailto:brooks%40yahoogroups.com> com,
        > > SMILEYJEN1@
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > She is a most fascinating creature. My own amateur opinion is
        > that
        > > she
        > > > was afraid of success; more specifically, what would happen if
        she
        > > > allowed herself to be happy with it. Think back to Mr Flowers.
        She
        > > > followed a friendly face that promised her pleasant things,
        only
        > to
        > > strip
        > > > her of her childhood in return. This seemed to be a prevailing
        > > theme in
        > > > her life - she would never be complacent again.
        > > >
        > > > Yes, I was a psych minor in college,
        > > > Jennifer ^_^
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:56:30 -0000 nutsaboutclara
        > > > <no_reply@yahoogroup <mailto:no_reply%40yahoogroups.com> s.com>
        > writes:
        > > > To the both of you, there has never been a psychological study
        on
        > > > Louise Brooks, because she is virtually unknown to most film
        > > > viewers, especially since most film viewers are NOT silent film
        > > fans
        > > > at all. It's a very tiny community, the silent film viewing
        > > > community, but a very fierce and loyal bunch, to be sure. In
        > fact,
        > > > there are many silent film fans who know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
        about
        > > > Brooksie, which is a bit shocking.
        > > >
        > > > -Dario.
        > > >
        > > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
        > > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
        > brooks@yahoogroups. <mailto:brooks%40yahoogroups.com> com,
        > > Perri Lee
        > > > <cheaptrickaz@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > I don't think she was that complex. She was hot and she knew
        it
        > > > and was a player that fully enjoyed life and refused to take
        > > > negative energy off others.
        > > > >
        > > > > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@> wrote: Has anyone seen or
        > > > know of any sort of psycological profile on Louise
        > > > > Brooks? I'm in my third straight reading of Barry Paris' bio
        of
        > > > her
        > > > > and I find her to be psycologically baffling. What an
        > incredibly
        > > > > complex person!
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Perri Lee Leuthard
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > ---------------------------------
        > > > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
        > > > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
        > > > >
        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Anita M
        I m not sure that public knowledge of her escapades would have bothered her. She never appeared to be embarrassed about anything she did, nor cared what anyone
        Message 3 of 29 , May 7, 2007
          I'm not sure that public knowledge of her escapades would have bothered her.
          She never appeared to be embarrassed about anything she did, nor cared what
          anyone else thought of her. I think it was a 100% control issue.



          Anita M.

          _____

          From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Perri Lee
          Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 1:35 PM
          To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



          I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not want to
          publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the escapades
          she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed with the
          twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee

          Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@yahoo. <mailto:bagnoli2%40yahoo.com> com> wrote: I
          think you've hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality. All through
          the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident that she had to be
          in control - not so much in control of the people but in control of the
          situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster piece "The Girl in the Black
          Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to the top of the public
          consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word from him that he'd been out
          on the West Coast discussing (without her knowing it) a bio-pic with a major
          Hollywood director. She went ballistic, refused any thought of letting the
          film be done (despite the increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off
          forever. She excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project
          that involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
          wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation where she
          couldn't be 100% in control of it.

          Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out there?
          Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls far from
          the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something as simple as
          that.

          --- In thenewcovenoflouise
          <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com,
          olive_e_thomas
          <no_reply@...> wrote:
          >
          > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of personal
          control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her book club Louise
          would likely refuse on the grounds any success would "belong" to Oprah and
          not to her...
          >

          Perri Lee Leuthard

          ---------------------------------
          Don't pick lemons.
          See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Chuck Golden
          Perri Lee, She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn t publish her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the sexual
          Message 4 of 29 , May 7, 2007
            Perri Lee,

            She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't publish
            her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
            sexual beans and that she had concerns about what this could
            potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted to her priest
            in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she wanted a drink
            and when she read about sex she got excited. So she opted not to
            publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable young women.
            On the one hand, she wouldn't renounce her lifestyle (standing toe-to-
            toe with her priest), on the other hand she was concerned about
            having young girls see her habits and lifestyle as desirable and
            exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant contradictions of
            Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a proof
            of her brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
            being anything but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.

            I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs of
            her region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
            was mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
            attended a Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough
            to evidently have a fling with an older man in the church before
            moving to Manhatten), and for ten years as a Catholic between 1954
            and 1964 in New York. I certainly don't see either of them as being
            twisted in either location. Except for the Catholic period, I think
            Louise's attitude towards religion was ambivalence rather than
            antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring that she left the
            Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of note in her
            little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she
            had a statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
            religious beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that
            opinion.

            Cheers!


            --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, Perri Lee
            <cheaptrickaz@...> wrote:
            >
            > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not
            want to publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all
            the escapades she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was
            also mixed with the twisted religious beliefs of her region and her
            day. Perri Lee
            >
            > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: I think you've hit on
            one of THE major aspects of her personality. All
            > through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident
            that
            > she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but
            in
            > control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster
            piece "The
            > Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to
            the
            > top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
            > from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without
            her
            > knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
            > ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite
            the
            > increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
            > excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
            > involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
            > wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation
            where
            > she couldn't be 100% in control of it.
            >
            > Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out
            there?
            > Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls
            far
            > from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something
            as
            > simple as that.
            >
            > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
            > <no_reply@> wrote:
            > >
            > > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
            > > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
            > > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
            > > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Perri Lee Leuthard
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Don't pick lemons.
            > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Perri Lee
            I still beleive that the reason she did not publish was some how tied to the twisted religious moral thing. It is why I feel she did not write and it still is
            Message 5 of 29 , May 7, 2007
              I still beleive that the reason she did not publish was some how tied to the twisted religious moral thing. It is why I feel she did not write and it still is the same thing and reason why people and persons hold themselves back today. But of course this is getting to be too large of a subject for this group. thanks

              Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: Perri Lee,

              She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't publish
              her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
              sexual beans and that she had concerns about what this could
              potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted to her priest
              in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she wanted a drink
              and when she read about sex she got excited. So she opted not to
              publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable young women.
              On the one hand, she wouldn't renounce her lifestyle (standing toe-to-
              toe with her priest), on the other hand she was concerned about
              having young girls see her habits and lifestyle as desirable and
              exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant contradictions of
              Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a proof
              of her brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
              being anything but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.

              I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs of
              her region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
              was mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
              attended a Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough
              to evidently have a fling with an older man in the church before
              moving to Manhatten), and for ten years as a Catholic between 1954
              and 1964 in New York. I certainly don't see either of them as being
              twisted in either location. Except for the Catholic period, I think
              Louise's attitude towards religion was ambivalence rather than
              antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring that she left the
              Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of note in her
              little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she
              had a statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
              religious beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that
              opinion.

              Cheers!

              --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, Perri Lee
              <cheaptrickaz@...> wrote:
              >
              > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not
              want to publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all
              the escapades she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was
              also mixed with the twisted religious beliefs of her region and her
              day. Perri Lee
              >
              > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: I think you've hit on
              one of THE major aspects of her personality. All
              > through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident
              that
              > she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but
              in
              > control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster
              piece "The
              > Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to
              the
              > top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
              > from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without
              her
              > knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
              > ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite
              the
              > increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
              > excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
              > involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
              > wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation
              where
              > she couldn't be 100% in control of it.
              >
              > Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out
              there?
              > Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls
              far
              > from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something
              as
              > simple as that.
              >
              > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
              > <no_reply@> wrote:
              > >
              > > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
              > > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
              > > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
              > > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Perri Lee Leuthard
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Don't pick lemons.
              > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >






              Perri Lee Leuthard



              ---------------------------------
              Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
              Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Anita M
              IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect to underage girls, who (judging from my own experience) are impressionable and most likely to
              Message 6 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect to underage
                girls, who (judging from my own experience) are impressionable and most
                likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my life, illegal
                drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew people who bought
                into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her adventures
                and saying at the end “don’t do what I did,” (which seldom carries any
                weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.



                Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day “spilling
                the sexual beans” could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If you ever
                have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which celebrities are
                doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you want to see
                them or not.)



                Anita M.



                _____

                From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



                Perri Lee,

                She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't publish her
                biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the sexual
                beans and that she had concerns about what this could potentially do to
                influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s that when
                she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she read about sex she
                got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for
                impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't renounce her
                lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other hand she was
                concerned about having young girls see her habits and lifestyle as desirable
                and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant contradictions of
                Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a proof of her
                brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on being anything
                but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.

                I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs of her
                region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion was
                mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she attended a
                Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to evidently have
                a fling with an older man in the church before moving to Manhatten), and for
                ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I certainly don't
                see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except for the
                Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was ambivalence
                rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring that she left
                the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of note in her
                little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she had a
                statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the religious
                beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.

                Cheers!

                >
                > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not want to
                publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the escapades
                she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed with the
                twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • nutsaboutclara
                That s quite true, Olive. Brooksie always wanted to control the situation, so that she could be the center of attention. It was that way at home, when she
                Message 7 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                  That's quite true, Olive. Brooksie always wanted to control the
                  situation, so that she could be the center of attention. It was that
                  way at home, when she and her mother bickered, and it continued well
                  into adulthood. She was her own marching band, which turned a lot of
                  people off, that's for sure.

                  -Dario.


                  --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                  <no_reply@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                  > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                  > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                  > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                  >
                • nutsaboutclara
                  She was a very willful person, Chuck; it was her way and nothing else. Clara Bow was like that to an extent, but she was outgoing and cheerful towards all
                  Message 8 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                    She was a very willful person, Chuck; it was her way and nothing
                    else. Clara Bow was like that to an extent, but she was outgoing and
                    cheerful towards all that met Clara. But Brooksie was moody,
                    taciturn at times, and an intelectual snob, who thought that she was
                    above everyone when it came film(film history, film making, actors &
                    actresses, etc.), literature, politics, sex, male/female
                    relationships, etc. And, very opinionated. But, I love her for it,
                    because she would be who she was if she wasn't that in the first
                    place. I marvel at her strong sense of independence. That made her
                    stand out more than her contemporaries.

                    -Dario.



                    --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Golden"
                    <bagnoli2@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I think you've hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality.
                    All
                    > through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident
                    that
                    > she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but
                    in
                    > control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster
                    piece "The
                    > Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to
                    the
                    > top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                    > from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without
                    her
                    > knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                    > ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite
                    the
                    > increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                    > excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                    > involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                    > wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation
                    where
                    > she couldn't be 100% in control of it.
                    >
                    > Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out
                    there?
                    > Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls
                    far
                    > from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something
                    as
                    > simple as that.
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                    > <no_reply@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                    > > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                    > > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                    > > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                    > >
                    >
                  • olive_e_thomas
                    I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of child-care in that respect). My guess is
                    Message 9 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                      I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                      children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                      child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                      ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed little
                      brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                      selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and it
                      was easier to torch than try and rewrite...

                      It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of one
                      whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                      went.

                      But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                      words that just don't seem to go together...

                      --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                      <Woodsy@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect
                      to underage
                      > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                      impressionable and most
                      > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my life,
                      illegal
                      > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                      people who bought
                      > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                      adventures
                      > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                      carries any
                      > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day
                      "spilling
                      > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If
                      you ever
                      > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                      celebrities are
                      > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                      want to see
                      > them or not.)
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Anita M.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                      > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                      > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                      Profile?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Perri Lee,
                      >
                      > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                      publish her
                      > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                      sexual
                      > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                      potentially do to
                      > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s
                      that when
                      > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                      read about sex she
                      > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                      concern for
                      > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                      renounce her
                      > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other hand
                      she was
                      > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                      lifestyle as desirable
                      > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                      contradictions of
                      > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                      proof of her
                      > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on being
                      anything
                      > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                      >
                      > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs
                      of her
                      > region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                      was
                      > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                      attended a
                      > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                      evidently have
                      > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                      Manhatten), and for
                      > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                      certainly don't
                      > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                      for the
                      > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was
                      ambivalence
                      > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                      that she left
                      > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                      note in her
                      > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she
                      had a
                      > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                      religious
                      > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                      >
                      > Cheers!
                      >
                      > >
                      > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not
                      want to
                      > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the
                      escapades
                      > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed
                      with the
                      > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • nutsaboutclara
                      HEAR, HEAR!!! Discriminatory would probably be a better word for what Brooksie was all about, in respect to people, art, literature, etc. You hit the nail on
                      Message 10 of 29 , May 9, 2007
                        HEAR, HEAR!!! Discriminatory would probably be a better word for
                        what Brooksie was all about, in respect to people, art, literature,
                        etc. You hit the nail on the head perfectly, Olive. Kudos!

                        -Dario.


                        --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                        <no_reply@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                        > children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                        > child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                        > ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed
                        little
                        > brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                        > selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and
                        it
                        > was easier to torch than try and rewrite...
                        >
                        > It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of
                        one
                        > whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                        > went.
                        >
                        > But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                        > words that just don't seem to go together...
                        >
                        > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                        > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect
                        > to underage
                        > > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                        > impressionable and most
                        > > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my
                        life,
                        > illegal
                        > > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                        > people who bought
                        > > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                        > adventures
                        > > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                        > carries any
                        > > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day
                        > "spilling
                        > > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If
                        > you ever
                        > > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                        > celebrities are
                        > > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                        > want to see
                        > > them or not.)
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Anita M.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > _____
                        > >
                        > > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                        > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                        > Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                        > > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                        > > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                        > Profile?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Perri Lee,
                        > >
                        > > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                        > publish her
                        > > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                        > sexual
                        > > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                        > potentially do to
                        > > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s
                        > that when
                        > > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                        > read about sex she
                        > > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                        > concern for
                        > > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                        > renounce her
                        > > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other
                        hand
                        > she was
                        > > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                        > lifestyle as desirable
                        > > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                        > contradictions of
                        > > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                        > proof of her
                        > > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
                        being
                        > anything
                        > > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                        > >
                        > > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs
                        > of her
                        > > region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                        > was
                        > > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                        > attended a
                        > > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                        > evidently have
                        > > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                        > Manhatten), and for
                        > > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                        > certainly don't
                        > > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                        > for the
                        > > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was
                        > ambivalence
                        > > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                        > that she left
                        > > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                        > note in her
                        > > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think
                        she
                        > had a
                        > > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                        > religious
                        > > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                        > >
                        > > Cheers!
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did
                        not
                        > want to
                        > > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the
                        > escapades
                        > > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed
                        > with the
                        > > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                      • Anita M.
                        Now I m confused. Chuck said She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn t publish her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling
                        Message 11 of 29 , May 9, 2007
                          Now I'm confused.

                          Chuck said "She said several times that one of the reasons she
                          wouldn't publish her biography was that to do it properly would mean
                          spilling all the sexual beans and that she had concerns about what
                          this could potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted to
                          her priest in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she
                          wanted a drink and when she read about sex she got excited. So she
                          opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable
                          young women."

                          But then, some people say one thing one day and the opposite another
                          day - maybe a way to hold onto a little privacy.

                          Anita M.


                          --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                          <no_reply@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                          > children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                          > child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                          > ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed
                          little
                          > brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                          > selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and it
                          > was easier to torch than try and rewrite...
                          >
                          > It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of
                          one
                          > whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                          > went.
                          >
                          > But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                          > words that just don't seem to go together...
                          >
                          > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                          > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect
                          > to underage
                          > > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                          > impressionable and most
                          > > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my
                          life,
                          > illegal
                          > > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                          > people who bought
                          > > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                          > adventures
                          > > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                          > carries any
                          > > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day
                          > "spilling
                          > > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If
                          > you ever
                          > > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                          > celebrities are
                          > > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                          > want to see
                          > > them or not.)
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Anita M.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > _____
                          > >
                          > > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                          > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                          > Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                          > > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                          > > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                          > Profile?
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Perri Lee,
                          > >
                          > > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                          > publish her
                          > > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                          > sexual
                          > > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                          > potentially do to
                          > > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s
                          > that when
                          > > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                          > read about sex she
                          > > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                          > concern for
                          > > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                          > renounce her
                          > > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other
                          hand
                          > she was
                          > > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                          > lifestyle as desirable
                          > > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                          > contradictions of
                          > > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                          > proof of her
                          > > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on being
                          > anything
                          > > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                          > >
                          > > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs
                          > of her
                          > > region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                          > was
                          > > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                          > attended a
                          > > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                          > evidently have
                          > > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                          > Manhatten), and for
                          > > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                          > certainly don't
                          > > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                          > for the
                          > > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was
                          > ambivalence
                          > > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                          > that she left
                          > > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                          > note in her
                          > > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think
                          she
                          > had a
                          > > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                          > religious
                          > > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                          > >
                          > > Cheers!
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did
                          not
                          > want to
                          > > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the
                          > escapades
                          > > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed
                          > with the
                          > > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >
                        • olive_e_thomas
                          Some clue as to her reasoning might be found in her comments after turning down Playboy magazine for a writing job all they want is (an article about) tits
                          Message 12 of 29 , May 9, 2007
                            Some clue as to her reasoning might be found in her comments
                            after turning down Playboy magazine for a writing job "all they
                            want is (an article about) tits and free-fucking for men."

                            --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M."
                            <Woodsy@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Now I'm confused.
                            >
                            > Chuck said "She said several times that one of the reasons
                            she
                            > wouldn't publish her biography was that to do it properly would
                            mean
                            > spilling all the sexual beans and that she had concerns about
                            what
                            > this could potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted
                            to
                            > her priest in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking
                            she
                            > wanted a drink and when she read about sex she got excited.
                            So she
                            > opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for
                            impressionable
                            > young women."
                            >
                            > But then, some people say one thing one day and the opposite
                            another
                            > day - maybe a way to hold onto a little privacy.
                            >
                            > Anita M.
                            >
                            >
                          • nutsaboutclara
                            Brooksie was trying to protect herself from what others said about her. She never did trust people whom she met and later talked trash about her. Brooksie
                            Message 13 of 29 , May 12, 2007
                              Brooksie was trying to protect herself from what others said about
                              her. She never did trust people whom she met and later talked trash
                              about her. Brooksie was one tough egg to crack, that's for sure.

                              -Dario.


                              --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M."
                              <Woodsy@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Now I'm confused.
                              >
                              > Chuck said "She said several times that one of the reasons she
                              > wouldn't publish her biography was that to do it properly would
                              mean
                              > spilling all the sexual beans and that she had concerns about what
                              > this could potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted
                              to
                              > her priest in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she
                              > wanted a drink and when she read about sex she got excited. So she
                              > opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable
                              > young women."
                              >
                              > But then, some people say one thing one day and the opposite
                              another
                              > day - maybe a way to hold onto a little privacy.
                              >
                              > Anita M.
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                              > <no_reply@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                              > > children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                              > > child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                              > > ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed
                              > little
                              > > brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                              > > selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and
                              it
                              > > was easier to torch than try and rewrite...
                              > >
                              > > It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of
                              > one
                              > > whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                              > > went.
                              > >
                              > > But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                              > > words that just don't seem to go together...
                              > >
                              > > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                              > > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in
                              respect
                              > > to underage
                              > > > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                              > > impressionable and most
                              > > > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my
                              > life,
                              > > illegal
                              > > > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                              > > people who bought
                              > > > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                              > > adventures
                              > > > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                              > > carries any
                              > > > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her
                              day
                              > > "spilling
                              > > > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it.
                              (If
                              > > you ever
                              > > > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                              > > celebrities are
                              > > > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                              > > want to see
                              > > > them or not.)
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Anita M.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > _____
                              > > >
                              > > > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                              > > Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                              > > > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                              > > > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                              > > Profile?
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Perri Lee,
                              > > >
                              > > > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                              > > publish her
                              > > > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all
                              the
                              > > sexual
                              > > > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                              > > potentially do to
                              > > > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-
                              50s
                              > > that when
                              > > > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                              > > read about sex she
                              > > > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                              > > concern for
                              > > > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                              > > renounce her
                              > > > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other
                              > hand
                              > > she was
                              > > > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                              > > lifestyle as desirable
                              > > > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                              > > contradictions of
                              > > > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                              > > proof of her
                              > > > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
                              being
                              > > anything
                              > > > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                              > > >
                              > > > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions
                              beliefs
                              > > of her
                              > > > region and her day". The only periods in her life where
                              religion
                              > > was
                              > > > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                              > > attended a
                              > > > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                              > > evidently have
                              > > > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                              > > Manhatten), and for
                              > > > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                              > > certainly don't
                              > > > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                              > > for the
                              > > > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion
                              was
                              > > ambivalence
                              > > > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                              > > that she left
                              > > > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                              > > note in her
                              > > > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think
                              > she
                              > > had a
                              > > > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                              > > religious
                              > > > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                              > > >
                              > > > Cheers!
                              > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did
                              > not
                              > > want to
                              > > > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all
                              the
                              > > escapades
                              > > > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also
                              mixed
                              > > with the
                              > > > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
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