Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

RE: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?

Expand Messages
  • Anita M
    I can understand that, and I wouldn’t blame her, either. Anita M. Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult that you do. -
    Message 1 of 29 , May 6, 2007
      I can understand that, and I wouldn’t blame her, either.



      Anita M.



      "Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult
      that you do." - Elizabeth Goudge

      _____

      From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      olive_e_thomas
      Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 10:27 PM
      To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



      The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
      personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
      book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
      success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Anita M
      No worries; we know what you meant ;-) Anita M. Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult that you do. - Elizabeth Goudge
      Message 2 of 29 , May 6, 2007
        No worries; we know what you meant ;-)



        Anita M.



        "Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult
        that you do." - Elizabeth Goudge

        _____

        From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        nutsaboutclara
        Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:38 AM
        To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



        WHOOPS!!!!! I meant "emptiness." Sorry, folks!

        -Dario.

        --- In thenewcovenoflouise
        <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com,
        nutsaboutclara
        <no_reply@...> wrote:
        >
        > I don't think she feared success; I think she hated its intensity
        > more than anything else. Plus, she hated, I think, the empty that
        > accompanies success sometimes. But, that's just a thought of mine.
        >
        > -Dario.
        >
        >
        > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
        <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com,
        "Anita M"
        > <Woodsy@> wrote:
        > >
        > > True, she pretty much said she "raised herself." There are
        several
        > reasons
        > > she didn't want to succeed, some we can guess at and some we'll
        > never know.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > AM
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > _____
        > >
        > > From: thenewcovenoflouise
        <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com
        > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouise
        <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of
        > > nutsaboutclara
        > > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:34 PM
        > > To: thenewcovenoflouise
        <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psycological
        Profile?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Yes she was, Jennifer. A fascinating person, indeed. Yes, I agree
        > > with you that Brooksie was a bit afraid of success, but, I think
        > her
        > > troubles were that both of her parents didn't give her enough
        > > attention that they should have to her and her siblings. As
        > Brooksie
        > > herself said one time, just to paraphrase her, her parents were
        > more
        > > in love with each other than with their kids. They prefered that
        > > their childern, or "squaling brats" fend for themselves.
        > >
        > > -Dario.
        > >
        > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
        > > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
        > brooks@yahoogroups. <mailto:brooks%40yahoogroups.com> com,
        > > SMILEYJEN1@
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > She is a most fascinating creature. My own amateur opinion is
        > that
        > > she
        > > > was afraid of success; more specifically, what would happen if
        she
        > > > allowed herself to be happy with it. Think back to Mr Flowers.
        She
        > > > followed a friendly face that promised her pleasant things,
        only
        > to
        > > strip
        > > > her of her childhood in return. This seemed to be a prevailing
        > > theme in
        > > > her life - she would never be complacent again.
        > > >
        > > > Yes, I was a psych minor in college,
        > > > Jennifer ^_^
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:56:30 -0000 nutsaboutclara
        > > > <no_reply@yahoogroup <mailto:no_reply%40yahoogroups.com> s.com>
        > writes:
        > > > To the both of you, there has never been a psychological study
        on
        > > > Louise Brooks, because she is virtually unknown to most film
        > > > viewers, especially since most film viewers are NOT silent film
        > > fans
        > > > at all. It's a very tiny community, the silent film viewing
        > > > community, but a very fierce and loyal bunch, to be sure. In
        > fact,
        > > > there are many silent film fans who know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
        about
        > > > Brooksie, which is a bit shocking.
        > > >
        > > > -Dario.
        > > >
        > > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
        > > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
        > brooks@yahoogroups. <mailto:brooks%40yahoogroups.com> com,
        > > Perri Lee
        > > > <cheaptrickaz@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > I don't think she was that complex. She was hot and she knew
        it
        > > > and was a player that fully enjoyed life and refused to take
        > > > negative energy off others.
        > > > >
        > > > > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@> wrote: Has anyone seen or
        > > > know of any sort of psycological profile on Louise
        > > > > Brooks? I'm in my third straight reading of Barry Paris' bio
        of
        > > > her
        > > > > and I find her to be psycologically baffling. What an
        > incredibly
        > > > > complex person!
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Perri Lee Leuthard
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > ---------------------------------
        > > > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
        > > > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
        > > > >
        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Chuck Golden
        I think you ve hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality. All through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it s evident that she had to be in
        Message 3 of 29 , May 6, 2007
          I think you've hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality. All
          through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident that
          she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but in
          control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster piece "The
          Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to the
          top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
          from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without her
          knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
          ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite the
          increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
          excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
          involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
          wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation where
          she couldn't be 100% in control of it.

          Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out there?
          Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls far
          from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something as
          simple as that.


          --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
          <no_reply@...> wrote:
          >
          > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
          > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
          > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
          > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
          >
        • Perri Lee
          I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not want to publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the escapades she was
          Message 4 of 29 , May 6, 2007
            I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not want to publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the escapades she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed with the twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee

            Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: I think you've hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality. All
            through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident that
            she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but in
            control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster piece "The
            Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to the
            top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
            from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without her
            knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
            ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite the
            increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
            excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
            involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
            wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation where
            she couldn't be 100% in control of it.

            Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out there?
            Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls far
            from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something as
            simple as that.

            --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
            <no_reply@...> wrote:
            >
            > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
            > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
            > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
            > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
            >






            Perri Lee Leuthard



            ---------------------------------
            Don't pick lemons.
            See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Anita M
            I m not sure that public knowledge of her escapades would have bothered her. She never appeared to be embarrassed about anything she did, nor cared what anyone
            Message 5 of 29 , May 7, 2007
              I'm not sure that public knowledge of her escapades would have bothered her.
              She never appeared to be embarrassed about anything she did, nor cared what
              anyone else thought of her. I think it was a 100% control issue.



              Anita M.

              _____

              From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Perri Lee
              Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 1:35 PM
              To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



              I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not want to
              publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the escapades
              she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed with the
              twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee

              Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@yahoo. <mailto:bagnoli2%40yahoo.com> com> wrote: I
              think you've hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality. All through
              the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident that she had to be
              in control - not so much in control of the people but in control of the
              situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster piece "The Girl in the Black
              Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to the top of the public
              consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word from him that he'd been out
              on the West Coast discussing (without her knowing it) a bio-pic with a major
              Hollywood director. She went ballistic, refused any thought of letting the
              film be done (despite the increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off
              forever. She excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project
              that involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
              wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation where she
              couldn't be 100% in control of it.

              Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out there?
              Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls far from
              the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something as simple as
              that.

              --- In thenewcovenoflouise
              <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com,
              olive_e_thomas
              <no_reply@...> wrote:
              >
              > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of personal
              control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her book club Louise
              would likely refuse on the grounds any success would "belong" to Oprah and
              not to her...
              >

              Perri Lee Leuthard

              ---------------------------------
              Don't pick lemons.
              See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Chuck Golden
              Perri Lee, She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn t publish her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the sexual
              Message 6 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                Perri Lee,

                She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't publish
                her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                sexual beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted to her priest
                in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she wanted a drink
                and when she read about sex she got excited. So she opted not to
                publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable young women.
                On the one hand, she wouldn't renounce her lifestyle (standing toe-to-
                toe with her priest), on the other hand she was concerned about
                having young girls see her habits and lifestyle as desirable and
                exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant contradictions of
                Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a proof
                of her brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
                being anything but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.

                I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs of
                her region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                was mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                attended a Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough
                to evidently have a fling with an older man in the church before
                moving to Manhatten), and for ten years as a Catholic between 1954
                and 1964 in New York. I certainly don't see either of them as being
                twisted in either location. Except for the Catholic period, I think
                Louise's attitude towards religion was ambivalence rather than
                antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring that she left the
                Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of note in her
                little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she
                had a statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                religious beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that
                opinion.

                Cheers!


                --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, Perri Lee
                <cheaptrickaz@...> wrote:
                >
                > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not
                want to publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all
                the escapades she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was
                also mixed with the twisted religious beliefs of her region and her
                day. Perri Lee
                >
                > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: I think you've hit on
                one of THE major aspects of her personality. All
                > through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident
                that
                > she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but
                in
                > control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster
                piece "The
                > Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to
                the
                > top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                > from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without
                her
                > knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                > ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite
                the
                > increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                > excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                > involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                > wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation
                where
                > she couldn't be 100% in control of it.
                >
                > Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out
                there?
                > Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls
                far
                > from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something
                as
                > simple as that.
                >
                > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                > <no_reply@> wrote:
                > >
                > > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                > > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                > > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                > > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Perri Lee Leuthard
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Don't pick lemons.
                > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Perri Lee
                I still beleive that the reason she did not publish was some how tied to the twisted religious moral thing. It is why I feel she did not write and it still is
                Message 7 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                  I still beleive that the reason she did not publish was some how tied to the twisted religious moral thing. It is why I feel she did not write and it still is the same thing and reason why people and persons hold themselves back today. But of course this is getting to be too large of a subject for this group. thanks

                  Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: Perri Lee,

                  She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't publish
                  her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                  sexual beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                  potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted to her priest
                  in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she wanted a drink
                  and when she read about sex she got excited. So she opted not to
                  publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable young women.
                  On the one hand, she wouldn't renounce her lifestyle (standing toe-to-
                  toe with her priest), on the other hand she was concerned about
                  having young girls see her habits and lifestyle as desirable and
                  exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant contradictions of
                  Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a proof
                  of her brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
                  being anything but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.

                  I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs of
                  her region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                  was mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                  attended a Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough
                  to evidently have a fling with an older man in the church before
                  moving to Manhatten), and for ten years as a Catholic between 1954
                  and 1964 in New York. I certainly don't see either of them as being
                  twisted in either location. Except for the Catholic period, I think
                  Louise's attitude towards religion was ambivalence rather than
                  antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring that she left the
                  Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of note in her
                  little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she
                  had a statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                  religious beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that
                  opinion.

                  Cheers!

                  --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, Perri Lee
                  <cheaptrickaz@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not
                  want to publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all
                  the escapades she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was
                  also mixed with the twisted religious beliefs of her region and her
                  day. Perri Lee
                  >
                  > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: I think you've hit on
                  one of THE major aspects of her personality. All
                  > through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident
                  that
                  > she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but
                  in
                  > control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster
                  piece "The
                  > Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to
                  the
                  > top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                  > from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without
                  her
                  > knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                  > ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite
                  the
                  > increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                  > excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                  > involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                  > wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation
                  where
                  > she couldn't be 100% in control of it.
                  >
                  > Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out
                  there?
                  > Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls
                  far
                  > from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something
                  as
                  > simple as that.
                  >
                  > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                  > <no_reply@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                  > > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                  > > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                  > > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Perri Lee Leuthard
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Don't pick lemons.
                  > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >






                  Perri Lee Leuthard



                  ---------------------------------
                  Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                  Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Anita M
                  IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect to underage girls, who (judging from my own experience) are impressionable and most likely to
                  Message 8 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                    IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect to underage
                    girls, who (judging from my own experience) are impressionable and most
                    likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my life, illegal
                    drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew people who bought
                    into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her adventures
                    and saying at the end “don’t do what I did,” (which seldom carries any
                    weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.



                    Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day “spilling
                    the sexual beans” could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If you ever
                    have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which celebrities are
                    doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you want to see
                    them or not.)



                    Anita M.



                    _____

                    From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                    Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                    To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



                    Perri Lee,

                    She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't publish her
                    biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the sexual
                    beans and that she had concerns about what this could potentially do to
                    influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s that when
                    she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she read about sex she
                    got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for
                    impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't renounce her
                    lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other hand she was
                    concerned about having young girls see her habits and lifestyle as desirable
                    and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant contradictions of
                    Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a proof of her
                    brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on being anything
                    but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.

                    I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs of her
                    region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion was
                    mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she attended a
                    Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to evidently have
                    a fling with an older man in the church before moving to Manhatten), and for
                    ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I certainly don't
                    see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except for the
                    Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was ambivalence
                    rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring that she left
                    the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of note in her
                    little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she had a
                    statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the religious
                    beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.

                    Cheers!

                    >
                    > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not want to
                    publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the escapades
                    she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed with the
                    twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • nutsaboutclara
                    That s quite true, Olive. Brooksie always wanted to control the situation, so that she could be the center of attention. It was that way at home, when she
                    Message 9 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                      That's quite true, Olive. Brooksie always wanted to control the
                      situation, so that she could be the center of attention. It was that
                      way at home, when she and her mother bickered, and it continued well
                      into adulthood. She was her own marching band, which turned a lot of
                      people off, that's for sure.

                      -Dario.


                      --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                      <no_reply@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                      > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                      > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                      > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                      >
                    • nutsaboutclara
                      She was a very willful person, Chuck; it was her way and nothing else. Clara Bow was like that to an extent, but she was outgoing and cheerful towards all
                      Message 10 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                        She was a very willful person, Chuck; it was her way and nothing
                        else. Clara Bow was like that to an extent, but she was outgoing and
                        cheerful towards all that met Clara. But Brooksie was moody,
                        taciturn at times, and an intelectual snob, who thought that she was
                        above everyone when it came film(film history, film making, actors &
                        actresses, etc.), literature, politics, sex, male/female
                        relationships, etc. And, very opinionated. But, I love her for it,
                        because she would be who she was if she wasn't that in the first
                        place. I marvel at her strong sense of independence. That made her
                        stand out more than her contemporaries.

                        -Dario.



                        --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Golden"
                        <bagnoli2@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I think you've hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality.
                        All
                        > through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident
                        that
                        > she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but
                        in
                        > control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster
                        piece "The
                        > Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to
                        the
                        > top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                        > from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without
                        her
                        > knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                        > ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite
                        the
                        > increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                        > excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                        > involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                        > wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation
                        where
                        > she couldn't be 100% in control of it.
                        >
                        > Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out
                        there?
                        > Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls
                        far
                        > from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something
                        as
                        > simple as that.
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                        > <no_reply@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                        > > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                        > > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                        > > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                        > >
                        >
                      • olive_e_thomas
                        I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of child-care in that respect). My guess is
                        Message 11 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                          I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                          children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                          child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                          ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed little
                          brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                          selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and it
                          was easier to torch than try and rewrite...

                          It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of one
                          whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                          went.

                          But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                          words that just don't seem to go together...

                          --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                          <Woodsy@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect
                          to underage
                          > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                          impressionable and most
                          > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my life,
                          illegal
                          > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                          people who bought
                          > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                          adventures
                          > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                          carries any
                          > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day
                          "spilling
                          > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If
                          you ever
                          > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                          celebrities are
                          > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                          want to see
                          > them or not.)
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Anita M.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > _____
                          >
                          > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                          > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                          > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                          > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                          Profile?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Perri Lee,
                          >
                          > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                          publish her
                          > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                          sexual
                          > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                          potentially do to
                          > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s
                          that when
                          > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                          read about sex she
                          > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                          concern for
                          > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                          renounce her
                          > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other hand
                          she was
                          > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                          lifestyle as desirable
                          > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                          contradictions of
                          > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                          proof of her
                          > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on being
                          anything
                          > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                          >
                          > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs
                          of her
                          > region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                          was
                          > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                          attended a
                          > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                          evidently have
                          > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                          Manhatten), and for
                          > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                          certainly don't
                          > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                          for the
                          > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was
                          ambivalence
                          > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                          that she left
                          > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                          note in her
                          > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she
                          had a
                          > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                          religious
                          > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                          >
                          > Cheers!
                          >
                          > >
                          > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not
                          want to
                          > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the
                          escapades
                          > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed
                          with the
                          > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • nutsaboutclara
                          HEAR, HEAR!!! Discriminatory would probably be a better word for what Brooksie was all about, in respect to people, art, literature, etc. You hit the nail on
                          Message 12 of 29 , May 9, 2007
                            HEAR, HEAR!!! Discriminatory would probably be a better word for
                            what Brooksie was all about, in respect to people, art, literature,
                            etc. You hit the nail on the head perfectly, Olive. Kudos!

                            -Dario.


                            --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                            <no_reply@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                            > children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                            > child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                            > ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed
                            little
                            > brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                            > selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and
                            it
                            > was easier to torch than try and rewrite...
                            >
                            > It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of
                            one
                            > whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                            > went.
                            >
                            > But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                            > words that just don't seem to go together...
                            >
                            > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                            > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect
                            > to underage
                            > > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                            > impressionable and most
                            > > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my
                            life,
                            > illegal
                            > > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                            > people who bought
                            > > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                            > adventures
                            > > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                            > carries any
                            > > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day
                            > "spilling
                            > > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If
                            > you ever
                            > > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                            > celebrities are
                            > > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                            > want to see
                            > > them or not.)
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Anita M.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > _____
                            > >
                            > > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                            > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                            > Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                            > > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                            > > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                            > Profile?
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Perri Lee,
                            > >
                            > > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                            > publish her
                            > > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                            > sexual
                            > > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                            > potentially do to
                            > > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s
                            > that when
                            > > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                            > read about sex she
                            > > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                            > concern for
                            > > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                            > renounce her
                            > > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other
                            hand
                            > she was
                            > > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                            > lifestyle as desirable
                            > > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                            > contradictions of
                            > > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                            > proof of her
                            > > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
                            being
                            > anything
                            > > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                            > >
                            > > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs
                            > of her
                            > > region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                            > was
                            > > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                            > attended a
                            > > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                            > evidently have
                            > > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                            > Manhatten), and for
                            > > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                            > certainly don't
                            > > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                            > for the
                            > > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was
                            > ambivalence
                            > > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                            > that she left
                            > > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                            > note in her
                            > > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think
                            she
                            > had a
                            > > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                            > religious
                            > > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                            > >
                            > > Cheers!
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did
                            not
                            > want to
                            > > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the
                            > escapades
                            > > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed
                            > with the
                            > > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                          • Anita M.
                            Now I m confused. Chuck said She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn t publish her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling
                            Message 13 of 29 , May 9, 2007
                              Now I'm confused.

                              Chuck said "She said several times that one of the reasons she
                              wouldn't publish her biography was that to do it properly would mean
                              spilling all the sexual beans and that she had concerns about what
                              this could potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted to
                              her priest in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she
                              wanted a drink and when she read about sex she got excited. So she
                              opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable
                              young women."

                              But then, some people say one thing one day and the opposite another
                              day - maybe a way to hold onto a little privacy.

                              Anita M.


                              --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                              <no_reply@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                              > children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                              > child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                              > ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed
                              little
                              > brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                              > selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and it
                              > was easier to torch than try and rewrite...
                              >
                              > It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of
                              one
                              > whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                              > went.
                              >
                              > But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                              > words that just don't seem to go together...
                              >
                              > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                              > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect
                              > to underage
                              > > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                              > impressionable and most
                              > > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my
                              life,
                              > illegal
                              > > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                              > people who bought
                              > > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                              > adventures
                              > > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                              > carries any
                              > > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day
                              > "spilling
                              > > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If
                              > you ever
                              > > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                              > celebrities are
                              > > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                              > want to see
                              > > them or not.)
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Anita M.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > _____
                              > >
                              > > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                              > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                              > Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                              > > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                              > > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                              > Profile?
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Perri Lee,
                              > >
                              > > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                              > publish her
                              > > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                              > sexual
                              > > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                              > potentially do to
                              > > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s
                              > that when
                              > > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                              > read about sex she
                              > > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                              > concern for
                              > > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                              > renounce her
                              > > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other
                              hand
                              > she was
                              > > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                              > lifestyle as desirable
                              > > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                              > contradictions of
                              > > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                              > proof of her
                              > > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on being
                              > anything
                              > > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                              > >
                              > > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs
                              > of her
                              > > region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                              > was
                              > > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                              > attended a
                              > > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                              > evidently have
                              > > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                              > Manhatten), and for
                              > > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                              > certainly don't
                              > > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                              > for the
                              > > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was
                              > ambivalence
                              > > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                              > that she left
                              > > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                              > note in her
                              > > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think
                              she
                              > had a
                              > > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                              > religious
                              > > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                              > >
                              > > Cheers!
                              > >
                              > > >
                              > > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did
                              not
                              > want to
                              > > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the
                              > escapades
                              > > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed
                              > with the
                              > > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                            • olive_e_thomas
                              Some clue as to her reasoning might be found in her comments after turning down Playboy magazine for a writing job all they want is (an article about) tits
                              Message 14 of 29 , May 9, 2007
                                Some clue as to her reasoning might be found in her comments
                                after turning down Playboy magazine for a writing job "all they
                                want is (an article about) tits and free-fucking for men."

                                --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M."
                                <Woodsy@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Now I'm confused.
                                >
                                > Chuck said "She said several times that one of the reasons
                                she
                                > wouldn't publish her biography was that to do it properly would
                                mean
                                > spilling all the sexual beans and that she had concerns about
                                what
                                > this could potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted
                                to
                                > her priest in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking
                                she
                                > wanted a drink and when she read about sex she got excited.
                                So she
                                > opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for
                                impressionable
                                > young women."
                                >
                                > But then, some people say one thing one day and the opposite
                                another
                                > day - maybe a way to hold onto a little privacy.
                                >
                                > Anita M.
                                >
                                >
                              • nutsaboutclara
                                Brooksie was trying to protect herself from what others said about her. She never did trust people whom she met and later talked trash about her. Brooksie
                                Message 15 of 29 , May 12, 2007
                                  Brooksie was trying to protect herself from what others said about
                                  her. She never did trust people whom she met and later talked trash
                                  about her. Brooksie was one tough egg to crack, that's for sure.

                                  -Dario.


                                  --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M."
                                  <Woodsy@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Now I'm confused.
                                  >
                                  > Chuck said "She said several times that one of the reasons she
                                  > wouldn't publish her biography was that to do it properly would
                                  mean
                                  > spilling all the sexual beans and that she had concerns about what
                                  > this could potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted
                                  to
                                  > her priest in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she
                                  > wanted a drink and when she read about sex she got excited. So she
                                  > opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable
                                  > young women."
                                  >
                                  > But then, some people say one thing one day and the opposite
                                  another
                                  > day - maybe a way to hold onto a little privacy.
                                  >
                                  > Anita M.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                                  > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                                  > > children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                                  > > child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                                  > > ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed
                                  > little
                                  > > brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                                  > > selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and
                                  it
                                  > > was easier to torch than try and rewrite...
                                  > >
                                  > > It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of
                                  > one
                                  > > whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                                  > > went.
                                  > >
                                  > > But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                                  > > words that just don't seem to go together...
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                                  > > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in
                                  respect
                                  > > to underage
                                  > > > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                                  > > impressionable and most
                                  > > > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my
                                  > life,
                                  > > illegal
                                  > > > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                                  > > people who bought
                                  > > > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                                  > > adventures
                                  > > > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                                  > > carries any
                                  > > > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her
                                  day
                                  > > "spilling
                                  > > > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it.
                                  (If
                                  > > you ever
                                  > > > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                                  > > celebrities are
                                  > > > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                                  > > want to see
                                  > > > them or not.)
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Anita M.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > _____
                                  > > >
                                  > > > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  > > Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                                  > > > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                                  > > > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                                  > > Profile?
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Perri Lee,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                                  > > publish her
                                  > > > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all
                                  the
                                  > > sexual
                                  > > > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                                  > > potentially do to
                                  > > > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-
                                  50s
                                  > > that when
                                  > > > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                                  > > read about sex she
                                  > > > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                                  > > concern for
                                  > > > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                                  > > renounce her
                                  > > > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other
                                  > hand
                                  > > she was
                                  > > > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                                  > > lifestyle as desirable
                                  > > > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                                  > > contradictions of
                                  > > > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                                  > > proof of her
                                  > > > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
                                  being
                                  > > anything
                                  > > > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions
                                  beliefs
                                  > > of her
                                  > > > region and her day". The only periods in her life where
                                  religion
                                  > > was
                                  > > > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                                  > > attended a
                                  > > > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                                  > > evidently have
                                  > > > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                                  > > Manhatten), and for
                                  > > > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                                  > > certainly don't
                                  > > > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                                  > > for the
                                  > > > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion
                                  was
                                  > > ambivalence
                                  > > > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                                  > > that she left
                                  > > > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                                  > > note in her
                                  > > > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think
                                  > she
                                  > > had a
                                  > > > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                                  > > religious
                                  > > > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Cheers!
                                  > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did
                                  > not
                                  > > want to
                                  > > > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all
                                  the
                                  > > escapades
                                  > > > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also
                                  mixed
                                  > > with the
                                  > > > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.