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Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Re: Psychological Profile?

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  • Perri Lee
    In one of her bio s she was quoted as saying I love to drink and fuck she was quite the party girl. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall the
    Message 1 of 29 , Apr 30, 2007
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      In one of her bio's she was quoted as saying "I love to drink and fuck" she was quite the party girl. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall the afternoon her and Charlie Chaplin and another woman was in a hotel room all after noon and was drinking and Louise doing the Charleston..That was a story in one of the bio's . Happy reading

      Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: Anita,

      She wasn't quite the fully-fledged hellion yet when she was kicked
      off the Denishawn team, but she was well on her way. She went to New
      York with a chaperone at first, but she quickly graduated from paying
      student to paid troupe member with lots of travel involved. Barry
      Paris doesn't say much if anything about the chaperone when Louise
      was picked up as a regular. Likely she went home to Kansas soon
      thereafter. On the road, she was required to be above moral and
      social reproach, but she wasn't always. She was the subject of a lot
      of rumors and her reputation soured. She was evidently sneaking
      around to clubs and not coming back to the room until wake-up time.
      Being an incredible dancer, however, her pecadillos were overlooked
      for the most part. She toured, and starred, with the troupe for two
      seasons, getting harder and harder to manage all the time, more
      independent, more stubborn, fuller and fuller of herself. Finally,
      she came into a group meeting late and the boss gave her the heave-ho
      in front of everybody. Not so much as a word of caution is ever
      mentioned as I recalled. She just crossed the line once too many
      times and got the boot. Ruth St. Denis gave told her she was being
      dismissed because she wanted the world on a silver salver. Soon
      after that, she was dancing in Scandals and later Zeigfield, that's
      when she really started racing the party engine. Hope this helps!

      And do get the Barry Paris book, you'll love it.

      --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
      <Woodsy@...> wrote:
      >
      > She was a self-made woman, as you described. That's what makes her
      so
      > admirable to me – that she got so far starting with so little. But
      she was
      > every bit as tragic as Marilyn Monroe, IMO; she never truly
      overcame her
      > inner `demons' so she sabotaged herself and drove away anyone who
      got close
      > to her. I'd like to know the whole story of her dismissal from
      Denishawn.
      > I'd read that she drank heavily and often didn't show up for
      rehearsals.
      > Today we have help for kids with drinking/drug problems, anti-social
      > behavior, victims of abuse, etc. Unfortunately, such programs
      didn't exist
      > then.
      >
      >
      >
      > I've just joined the group, too, and have read only "Lulu in
      Hollywood" and
      > whatever I can find on the net. I also have the "Biography" special
      on DVD.
      > I see that Barry Paris' bio is a must.
      >
      >
      >
      > (Neve Campbell certainly looks the part!)
      >
      >
      >
      > Anita M.
      >






      Perri Lee Leuthard



      ---------------------------------
      Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
      Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • nutsaboutclara
      I don t think she feared success; I think she hated its intensity more than anything else. Plus, she hated, I think, the empty that accompanies success
      Message 2 of 29 , Apr 30, 2007
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        I don't think she feared success; I think she hated its intensity
        more than anything else. Plus, she hated, I think, the empty that
        accompanies success sometimes. But, that's just a thought of mine.

        -Dario.


        --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
        <Woodsy@...> wrote:
        >
        > True, she pretty much said she "raised herself." There are several
        reasons
        > she didn't want to succeed, some we can guess at and some we'll
        never know.
        >
        >
        >
        > AM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        > nutsaboutclara
        > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:34 PM
        > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psycological Profile?
        >
        >
        >
        > Yes she was, Jennifer. A fascinating person, indeed. Yes, I agree
        > with you that Brooksie was a bit afraid of success, but, I think
        her
        > troubles were that both of her parents didn't give her enough
        > attention that they should have to her and her siblings. As
        Brooksie
        > herself said one time, just to paraphrase her, her parents were
        more
        > in love with each other than with their kids. They prefered that
        > their childern, or "squaling brats" fend for themselves.
        >
        > -Dario.
        >
        > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
        > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
        brooks@yahoogroups.com,
        > SMILEYJEN1@
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > She is a most fascinating creature. My own amateur opinion is
        that
        > she
        > > was afraid of success; more specifically, what would happen if she
        > > allowed herself to be happy with it. Think back to Mr Flowers. She
        > > followed a friendly face that promised her pleasant things, only
        to
        > strip
        > > her of her childhood in return. This seemed to be a prevailing
        > theme in
        > > her life - she would never be complacent again.
        > >
        > > Yes, I was a psych minor in college,
        > > Jennifer ^_^
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:56:30 -0000 nutsaboutclara
        > > <no_reply@yahoogroup <mailto:no_reply%40yahoogroups.com> s.com>
        writes:
        > > To the both of you, there has never been a psychological study on
        > > Louise Brooks, because she is virtually unknown to most film
        > > viewers, especially since most film viewers are NOT silent film
        > fans
        > > at all. It's a very tiny community, the silent film viewing
        > > community, but a very fierce and loyal bunch, to be sure. In
        fact,
        > > there are many silent film fans who know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about
        > > Brooksie, which is a bit shocking.
        > >
        > > -Dario.
        > >
        > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
        > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
        brooks@yahoogroups.com,
        > Perri Lee
        > > <cheaptrickaz@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I don't think she was that complex. She was hot and she knew it
        > > and was a player that fully enjoyed life and refused to take
        > > negative energy off others.
        > > >
        > > > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@> wrote: Has anyone seen or
        > > know of any sort of psycological profile on Louise
        > > > Brooks? I'm in my third straight reading of Barry Paris' bio of
        > > her
        > > > and I find her to be psycologically baffling. What an
        incredibly
        > > > complex person!
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Perri Lee Leuthard
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ---------------------------------
        > > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
        > > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • nutsaboutclara
        WHOOPS!!!!! I meant emptiness. Sorry, folks! -Dario. ... several ... Profile? ... she ... She ... only ... on ... about ... it ... of
        Message 3 of 29 , May 5, 2007
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          WHOOPS!!!!! I meant "emptiness." Sorry, folks!

          -Dario.


          --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, nutsaboutclara
          <no_reply@...> wrote:
          >
          > I don't think she feared success; I think she hated its intensity
          > more than anything else. Plus, she hated, I think, the empty that
          > accompanies success sometimes. But, that's just a thought of mine.
          >
          > -Dario.
          >
          >
          > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
          > <Woodsy@> wrote:
          > >
          > > True, she pretty much said she "raised herself." There are
          several
          > reasons
          > > she didn't want to succeed, some we can guess at and some we'll
          > never know.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > AM
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > _____
          > >
          > > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
          > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          > > nutsaboutclara
          > > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:34 PM
          > > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psycological
          Profile?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yes she was, Jennifer. A fascinating person, indeed. Yes, I agree
          > > with you that Brooksie was a bit afraid of success, but, I think
          > her
          > > troubles were that both of her parents didn't give her enough
          > > attention that they should have to her and her siblings. As
          > Brooksie
          > > herself said one time, just to paraphrase her, her parents were
          > more
          > > in love with each other than with their kids. They prefered that
          > > their childern, or "squaling brats" fend for themselves.
          > >
          > > -Dario.
          > >
          > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
          > > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
          > brooks@yahoogroups.com,
          > > SMILEYJEN1@
          > > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > She is a most fascinating creature. My own amateur opinion is
          > that
          > > she
          > > > was afraid of success; more specifically, what would happen if
          she
          > > > allowed herself to be happy with it. Think back to Mr Flowers.
          She
          > > > followed a friendly face that promised her pleasant things,
          only
          > to
          > > strip
          > > > her of her childhood in return. This seemed to be a prevailing
          > > theme in
          > > > her life - she would never be complacent again.
          > > >
          > > > Yes, I was a psych minor in college,
          > > > Jennifer ^_^
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:56:30 -0000 nutsaboutclara
          > > > <no_reply@yahoogroup <mailto:no_reply%40yahoogroups.com> s.com>
          > writes:
          > > > To the both of you, there has never been a psychological study
          on
          > > > Louise Brooks, because she is virtually unknown to most film
          > > > viewers, especially since most film viewers are NOT silent film
          > > fans
          > > > at all. It's a very tiny community, the silent film viewing
          > > > community, but a very fierce and loyal bunch, to be sure. In
          > fact,
          > > > there are many silent film fans who know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
          about
          > > > Brooksie, which is a bit shocking.
          > > >
          > > > -Dario.
          > > >
          > > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
          > > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
          > brooks@yahoogroups.com,
          > > Perri Lee
          > > > <cheaptrickaz@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > I don't think she was that complex. She was hot and she knew
          it
          > > > and was a player that fully enjoyed life and refused to take
          > > > negative energy off others.
          > > > >
          > > > > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@> wrote: Has anyone seen or
          > > > know of any sort of psycological profile on Louise
          > > > > Brooks? I'm in my third straight reading of Barry Paris' bio
          of
          > > > her
          > > > > and I find her to be psycologically baffling. What an
          > incredibly
          > > > > complex person!
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Perri Lee Leuthard
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > ---------------------------------
          > > > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
          > > > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
          > > > >
          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
        • olive_e_thomas
          The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her book club Louise would likely
          Message 4 of 29 , May 5, 2007
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            The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
            personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
            book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
            success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
          • Anita M
            I can understand that, and I wouldn’t blame her, either. Anita M. Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult that you do. -
            Message 5 of 29 , May 6, 2007
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              I can understand that, and I wouldn’t blame her, either.



              Anita M.



              "Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult
              that you do." - Elizabeth Goudge

              _____

              From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              olive_e_thomas
              Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 10:27 PM
              To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



              The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
              personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
              book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
              success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Anita M
              No worries; we know what you meant ;-) Anita M. Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult that you do. - Elizabeth Goudge
              Message 6 of 29 , May 6, 2007
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                No worries; we know what you meant ;-)



                Anita M.



                "Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult
                that you do." - Elizabeth Goudge

                _____

                From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                nutsaboutclara
                Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:38 AM
                To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



                WHOOPS!!!!! I meant "emptiness." Sorry, folks!

                -Dario.

                --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com,
                nutsaboutclara
                <no_reply@...> wrote:
                >
                > I don't think she feared success; I think she hated its intensity
                > more than anything else. Plus, she hated, I think, the empty that
                > accompanies success sometimes. But, that's just a thought of mine.
                >
                > -Dario.
                >
                >
                > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com,
                "Anita M"
                > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                > >
                > > True, she pretty much said she "raised herself." There are
                several
                > reasons
                > > she didn't want to succeed, some we can guess at and some we'll
                > never know.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > AM
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > _____
                > >
                > > From: thenewcovenoflouise
                <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com
                > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouise
                <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com]
                On Behalf Of
                > > nutsaboutclara
                > > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:34 PM
                > > To: thenewcovenoflouise
                <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psycological
                Profile?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yes she was, Jennifer. A fascinating person, indeed. Yes, I agree
                > > with you that Brooksie was a bit afraid of success, but, I think
                > her
                > > troubles were that both of her parents didn't give her enough
                > > attention that they should have to her and her siblings. As
                > Brooksie
                > > herself said one time, just to paraphrase her, her parents were
                > more
                > > in love with each other than with their kids. They prefered that
                > > their childern, or "squaling brats" fend for themselves.
                > >
                > > -Dario.
                > >
                > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                > > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
                > brooks@yahoogroups. <mailto:brooks%40yahoogroups.com> com,
                > > SMILEYJEN1@
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > She is a most fascinating creature. My own amateur opinion is
                > that
                > > she
                > > > was afraid of success; more specifically, what would happen if
                she
                > > > allowed herself to be happy with it. Think back to Mr Flowers.
                She
                > > > followed a friendly face that promised her pleasant things,
                only
                > to
                > > strip
                > > > her of her childhood in return. This seemed to be a prevailing
                > > theme in
                > > > her life - she would never be complacent again.
                > > >
                > > > Yes, I was a psych minor in college,
                > > > Jennifer ^_^
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:56:30 -0000 nutsaboutclara
                > > > <no_reply@yahoogroup <mailto:no_reply%40yahoogroups.com> s.com>
                > writes:
                > > > To the both of you, there has never been a psychological study
                on
                > > > Louise Brooks, because she is virtually unknown to most film
                > > > viewers, especially since most film viewers are NOT silent film
                > > fans
                > > > at all. It's a very tiny community, the silent film viewing
                > > > community, but a very fierce and loyal bunch, to be sure. In
                > fact,
                > > > there are many silent film fans who know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
                about
                > > > Brooksie, which is a bit shocking.
                > > >
                > > > -Dario.
                > > >
                > > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                > > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
                > brooks@yahoogroups. <mailto:brooks%40yahoogroups.com> com,
                > > Perri Lee
                > > > <cheaptrickaz@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > I don't think she was that complex. She was hot and she knew
                it
                > > > and was a player that fully enjoyed life and refused to take
                > > > negative energy off others.
                > > > >
                > > > > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@> wrote: Has anyone seen or
                > > > know of any sort of psycological profile on Louise
                > > > > Brooks? I'm in my third straight reading of Barry Paris' bio
                of
                > > > her
                > > > > and I find her to be psycologically baffling. What an
                > incredibly
                > > > > complex person!
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Perri Lee Leuthard
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > ---------------------------------
                > > > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                > > > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                > > > >
                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Chuck Golden
                I think you ve hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality. All through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it s evident that she had to be in
                Message 7 of 29 , May 6, 2007
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                  I think you've hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality. All
                  through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident that
                  she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but in
                  control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster piece "The
                  Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to the
                  top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                  from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without her
                  knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                  ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite the
                  increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                  excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                  involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                  wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation where
                  she couldn't be 100% in control of it.

                  Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out there?
                  Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls far
                  from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something as
                  simple as that.


                  --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                  <no_reply@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                  > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                  > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                  > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                  >
                • Perri Lee
                  I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not want to publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the escapades she was
                  Message 8 of 29 , May 6, 2007
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                    I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not want to publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the escapades she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed with the twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee

                    Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: I think you've hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality. All
                    through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident that
                    she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but in
                    control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster piece "The
                    Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to the
                    top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                    from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without her
                    knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                    ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite the
                    increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                    excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                    involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                    wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation where
                    she couldn't be 100% in control of it.

                    Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out there?
                    Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls far
                    from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something as
                    simple as that.

                    --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                    <no_reply@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                    > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                    > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                    > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                    >






                    Perri Lee Leuthard



                    ---------------------------------
                    Don't pick lemons.
                    See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Anita M
                    I m not sure that public knowledge of her escapades would have bothered her. She never appeared to be embarrassed about anything she did, nor cared what anyone
                    Message 9 of 29 , May 7, 2007
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                      I'm not sure that public knowledge of her escapades would have bothered her.
                      She never appeared to be embarrassed about anything she did, nor cared what
                      anyone else thought of her. I think it was a 100% control issue.



                      Anita M.

                      _____

                      From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Perri Lee
                      Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 1:35 PM
                      To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



                      I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not want to
                      publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the escapades
                      she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed with the
                      twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee

                      Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@yahoo. <mailto:bagnoli2%40yahoo.com> com> wrote: I
                      think you've hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality. All through
                      the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident that she had to be
                      in control - not so much in control of the people but in control of the
                      situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster piece "The Girl in the Black
                      Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to the top of the public
                      consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word from him that he'd been out
                      on the West Coast discussing (without her knowing it) a bio-pic with a major
                      Hollywood director. She went ballistic, refused any thought of letting the
                      film be done (despite the increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off
                      forever. She excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project
                      that involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                      wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation where she
                      couldn't be 100% in control of it.

                      Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out there?
                      Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls far from
                      the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something as simple as
                      that.

                      --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                      <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com,
                      olive_e_thomas
                      <no_reply@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of personal
                      control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her book club Louise
                      would likely refuse on the grounds any success would "belong" to Oprah and
                      not to her...
                      >

                      Perri Lee Leuthard

                      ---------------------------------
                      Don't pick lemons.
                      See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Chuck Golden
                      Perri Lee, She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn t publish her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the sexual
                      Message 10 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Perri Lee,

                        She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't publish
                        her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                        sexual beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                        potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted to her priest
                        in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she wanted a drink
                        and when she read about sex she got excited. So she opted not to
                        publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable young women.
                        On the one hand, she wouldn't renounce her lifestyle (standing toe-to-
                        toe with her priest), on the other hand she was concerned about
                        having young girls see her habits and lifestyle as desirable and
                        exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant contradictions of
                        Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a proof
                        of her brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
                        being anything but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.

                        I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs of
                        her region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                        was mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                        attended a Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough
                        to evidently have a fling with an older man in the church before
                        moving to Manhatten), and for ten years as a Catholic between 1954
                        and 1964 in New York. I certainly don't see either of them as being
                        twisted in either location. Except for the Catholic period, I think
                        Louise's attitude towards religion was ambivalence rather than
                        antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring that she left the
                        Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of note in her
                        little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she
                        had a statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                        religious beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that
                        opinion.

                        Cheers!


                        --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, Perri Lee
                        <cheaptrickaz@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not
                        want to publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all
                        the escapades she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was
                        also mixed with the twisted religious beliefs of her region and her
                        day. Perri Lee
                        >
                        > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: I think you've hit on
                        one of THE major aspects of her personality. All
                        > through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident
                        that
                        > she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but
                        in
                        > control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster
                        piece "The
                        > Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to
                        the
                        > top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                        > from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without
                        her
                        > knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                        > ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite
                        the
                        > increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                        > excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                        > involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                        > wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation
                        where
                        > she couldn't be 100% in control of it.
                        >
                        > Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out
                        there?
                        > Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls
                        far
                        > from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something
                        as
                        > simple as that.
                        >
                        > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                        > <no_reply@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                        > > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                        > > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                        > > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Perri Lee Leuthard
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > Don't pick lemons.
                        > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Perri Lee
                        I still beleive that the reason she did not publish was some how tied to the twisted religious moral thing. It is why I feel she did not write and it still is
                        Message 11 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I still beleive that the reason she did not publish was some how tied to the twisted religious moral thing. It is why I feel she did not write and it still is the same thing and reason why people and persons hold themselves back today. But of course this is getting to be too large of a subject for this group. thanks

                          Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: Perri Lee,

                          She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't publish
                          her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                          sexual beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                          potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted to her priest
                          in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she wanted a drink
                          and when she read about sex she got excited. So she opted not to
                          publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable young women.
                          On the one hand, she wouldn't renounce her lifestyle (standing toe-to-
                          toe with her priest), on the other hand she was concerned about
                          having young girls see her habits and lifestyle as desirable and
                          exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant contradictions of
                          Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a proof
                          of her brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
                          being anything but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.

                          I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs of
                          her region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                          was mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                          attended a Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough
                          to evidently have a fling with an older man in the church before
                          moving to Manhatten), and for ten years as a Catholic between 1954
                          and 1964 in New York. I certainly don't see either of them as being
                          twisted in either location. Except for the Catholic period, I think
                          Louise's attitude towards religion was ambivalence rather than
                          antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring that she left the
                          Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of note in her
                          little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she
                          had a statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                          religious beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that
                          opinion.

                          Cheers!

                          --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, Perri Lee
                          <cheaptrickaz@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not
                          want to publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all
                          the escapades she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was
                          also mixed with the twisted religious beliefs of her region and her
                          day. Perri Lee
                          >
                          > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: I think you've hit on
                          one of THE major aspects of her personality. All
                          > through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident
                          that
                          > she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but
                          in
                          > control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster
                          piece "The
                          > Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to
                          the
                          > top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                          > from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without
                          her
                          > knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                          > ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite
                          the
                          > increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                          > excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                          > involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                          > wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation
                          where
                          > she couldn't be 100% in control of it.
                          >
                          > Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out
                          there?
                          > Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls
                          far
                          > from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something
                          as
                          > simple as that.
                          >
                          > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                          > <no_reply@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                          > > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                          > > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                          > > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Perri Lee Leuthard
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > Don't pick lemons.
                          > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >






                          Perri Lee Leuthard



                          ---------------------------------
                          Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                          Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Anita M
                          IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect to underage girls, who (judging from my own experience) are impressionable and most likely to
                          Message 12 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect to underage
                            girls, who (judging from my own experience) are impressionable and most
                            likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my life, illegal
                            drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew people who bought
                            into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her adventures
                            and saying at the end “don’t do what I did,” (which seldom carries any
                            weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.



                            Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day “spilling
                            the sexual beans” could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If you ever
                            have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which celebrities are
                            doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you want to see
                            them or not.)



                            Anita M.



                            _____

                            From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                            [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                            Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                            To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



                            Perri Lee,

                            She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't publish her
                            biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the sexual
                            beans and that she had concerns about what this could potentially do to
                            influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s that when
                            she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she read about sex she
                            got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for
                            impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't renounce her
                            lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other hand she was
                            concerned about having young girls see her habits and lifestyle as desirable
                            and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant contradictions of
                            Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a proof of her
                            brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on being anything
                            but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.

                            I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs of her
                            region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion was
                            mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she attended a
                            Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to evidently have
                            a fling with an older man in the church before moving to Manhatten), and for
                            ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I certainly don't
                            see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except for the
                            Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was ambivalence
                            rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring that she left
                            the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of note in her
                            little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she had a
                            statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the religious
                            beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.

                            Cheers!

                            >
                            > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not want to
                            publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the escapades
                            she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed with the
                            twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • nutsaboutclara
                            That s quite true, Olive. Brooksie always wanted to control the situation, so that she could be the center of attention. It was that way at home, when she
                            Message 13 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              That's quite true, Olive. Brooksie always wanted to control the
                              situation, so that she could be the center of attention. It was that
                              way at home, when she and her mother bickered, and it continued well
                              into adulthood. She was her own marching band, which turned a lot of
                              people off, that's for sure.

                              -Dario.


                              --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                              <no_reply@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                              > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                              > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                              > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                              >
                            • nutsaboutclara
                              She was a very willful person, Chuck; it was her way and nothing else. Clara Bow was like that to an extent, but she was outgoing and cheerful towards all
                              Message 14 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                She was a very willful person, Chuck; it was her way and nothing
                                else. Clara Bow was like that to an extent, but she was outgoing and
                                cheerful towards all that met Clara. But Brooksie was moody,
                                taciturn at times, and an intelectual snob, who thought that she was
                                above everyone when it came film(film history, film making, actors &
                                actresses, etc.), literature, politics, sex, male/female
                                relationships, etc. And, very opinionated. But, I love her for it,
                                because she would be who she was if she wasn't that in the first
                                place. I marvel at her strong sense of independence. That made her
                                stand out more than her contemporaries.

                                -Dario.



                                --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Golden"
                                <bagnoli2@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I think you've hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality.
                                All
                                > through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident
                                that
                                > she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but
                                in
                                > control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster
                                piece "The
                                > Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to
                                the
                                > top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                                > from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without
                                her
                                > knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                                > ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite
                                the
                                > increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                                > excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                                > involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                                > wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation
                                where
                                > she couldn't be 100% in control of it.
                                >
                                > Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out
                                there?
                                > Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls
                                far
                                > from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something
                                as
                                > simple as that.
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                                > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                                > > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                                > > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                                > > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                                > >
                                >
                              • olive_e_thomas
                                I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of child-care in that respect). My guess is
                                Message 15 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                                  children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                                  child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                                  ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed little
                                  brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                                  selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and it
                                  was easier to torch than try and rewrite...

                                  It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of one
                                  whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                                  went.

                                  But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                                  words that just don't seem to go together...

                                  --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                                  <Woodsy@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect
                                  to underage
                                  > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                                  impressionable and most
                                  > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my life,
                                  illegal
                                  > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                                  people who bought
                                  > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                                  adventures
                                  > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                                  carries any
                                  > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day
                                  "spilling
                                  > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If
                                  you ever
                                  > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                                  celebrities are
                                  > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                                  want to see
                                  > them or not.)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Anita M.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > _____
                                  >
                                  > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                  > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                                  > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                                  > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                                  Profile?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Perri Lee,
                                  >
                                  > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                                  publish her
                                  > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                                  sexual
                                  > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                                  potentially do to
                                  > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s
                                  that when
                                  > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                                  read about sex she
                                  > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                                  concern for
                                  > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                                  renounce her
                                  > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other hand
                                  she was
                                  > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                                  lifestyle as desirable
                                  > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                                  contradictions of
                                  > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                                  proof of her
                                  > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on being
                                  anything
                                  > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                                  >
                                  > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs
                                  of her
                                  > region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                                  was
                                  > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                                  attended a
                                  > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                                  evidently have
                                  > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                                  Manhatten), and for
                                  > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                                  certainly don't
                                  > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                                  for the
                                  > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was
                                  ambivalence
                                  > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                                  that she left
                                  > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                                  note in her
                                  > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she
                                  had a
                                  > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                                  religious
                                  > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                                  >
                                  > Cheers!
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not
                                  want to
                                  > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the
                                  escapades
                                  > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed
                                  with the
                                  > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • nutsaboutclara
                                  HEAR, HEAR!!! Discriminatory would probably be a better word for what Brooksie was all about, in respect to people, art, literature, etc. You hit the nail on
                                  Message 16 of 29 , May 9, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    HEAR, HEAR!!! Discriminatory would probably be a better word for
                                    what Brooksie was all about, in respect to people, art, literature,
                                    etc. You hit the nail on the head perfectly, Olive. Kudos!

                                    -Dario.


                                    --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                                    <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                                    > children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                                    > child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                                    > ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed
                                    little
                                    > brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                                    > selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and
                                    it
                                    > was easier to torch than try and rewrite...
                                    >
                                    > It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of
                                    one
                                    > whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                                    > went.
                                    >
                                    > But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                                    > words that just don't seem to go together...
                                    >
                                    > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                                    > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect
                                    > to underage
                                    > > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                                    > impressionable and most
                                    > > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my
                                    life,
                                    > illegal
                                    > > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                                    > people who bought
                                    > > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                                    > adventures
                                    > > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                                    > carries any
                                    > > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day
                                    > "spilling
                                    > > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If
                                    > you ever
                                    > > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                                    > celebrities are
                                    > > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                                    > want to see
                                    > > them or not.)
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Anita M.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > _____
                                    > >
                                    > > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                                    > Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                                    > > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                                    > > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                                    > Profile?
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Perri Lee,
                                    > >
                                    > > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                                    > publish her
                                    > > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                                    > sexual
                                    > > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                                    > potentially do to
                                    > > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s
                                    > that when
                                    > > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                                    > read about sex she
                                    > > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                                    > concern for
                                    > > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                                    > renounce her
                                    > > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other
                                    hand
                                    > she was
                                    > > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                                    > lifestyle as desirable
                                    > > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                                    > contradictions of
                                    > > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                                    > proof of her
                                    > > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
                                    being
                                    > anything
                                    > > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                                    > >
                                    > > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs
                                    > of her
                                    > > region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                                    > was
                                    > > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                                    > attended a
                                    > > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                                    > evidently have
                                    > > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                                    > Manhatten), and for
                                    > > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                                    > certainly don't
                                    > > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                                    > for the
                                    > > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was
                                    > ambivalence
                                    > > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                                    > that she left
                                    > > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                                    > note in her
                                    > > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think
                                    she
                                    > had a
                                    > > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                                    > religious
                                    > > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                                    > >
                                    > > Cheers!
                                    > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did
                                    not
                                    > want to
                                    > > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the
                                    > escapades
                                    > > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed
                                    > with the
                                    > > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Anita M.
                                    Now I m confused. Chuck said She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn t publish her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling
                                    Message 17 of 29 , May 9, 2007
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                                      Now I'm confused.

                                      Chuck said "She said several times that one of the reasons she
                                      wouldn't publish her biography was that to do it properly would mean
                                      spilling all the sexual beans and that she had concerns about what
                                      this could potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted to
                                      her priest in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she
                                      wanted a drink and when she read about sex she got excited. So she
                                      opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable
                                      young women."

                                      But then, some people say one thing one day and the opposite another
                                      day - maybe a way to hold onto a little privacy.

                                      Anita M.


                                      --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                                      <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                                      > children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                                      > child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                                      > ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed
                                      little
                                      > brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                                      > selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and it
                                      > was easier to torch than try and rewrite...
                                      >
                                      > It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of
                                      one
                                      > whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                                      > went.
                                      >
                                      > But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                                      > words that just don't seem to go together...
                                      >
                                      > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                                      > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect
                                      > to underage
                                      > > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                                      > impressionable and most
                                      > > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my
                                      life,
                                      > illegal
                                      > > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                                      > people who bought
                                      > > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                                      > adventures
                                      > > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                                      > carries any
                                      > > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day
                                      > "spilling
                                      > > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If
                                      > you ever
                                      > > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                                      > celebrities are
                                      > > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                                      > want to see
                                      > > them or not.)
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Anita M.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > _____
                                      > >
                                      > > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                                      > Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                                      > > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                                      > > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                                      > Profile?
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Perri Lee,
                                      > >
                                      > > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                                      > publish her
                                      > > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                                      > sexual
                                      > > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                                      > potentially do to
                                      > > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s
                                      > that when
                                      > > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                                      > read about sex she
                                      > > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                                      > concern for
                                      > > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                                      > renounce her
                                      > > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other
                                      hand
                                      > she was
                                      > > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                                      > lifestyle as desirable
                                      > > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                                      > contradictions of
                                      > > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                                      > proof of her
                                      > > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on being
                                      > anything
                                      > > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                                      > >
                                      > > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs
                                      > of her
                                      > > region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                                      > was
                                      > > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                                      > attended a
                                      > > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                                      > evidently have
                                      > > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                                      > Manhatten), and for
                                      > > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                                      > certainly don't
                                      > > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                                      > for the
                                      > > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was
                                      > ambivalence
                                      > > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                                      > that she left
                                      > > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                                      > note in her
                                      > > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think
                                      she
                                      > had a
                                      > > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                                      > religious
                                      > > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                                      > >
                                      > > Cheers!
                                      > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did
                                      not
                                      > want to
                                      > > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the
                                      > escapades
                                      > > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed
                                      > with the
                                      > > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • olive_e_thomas
                                      Some clue as to her reasoning might be found in her comments after turning down Playboy magazine for a writing job all they want is (an article about) tits
                                      Message 18 of 29 , May 9, 2007
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                                        Some clue as to her reasoning might be found in her comments
                                        after turning down Playboy magazine for a writing job "all they
                                        want is (an article about) tits and free-fucking for men."

                                        --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M."
                                        <Woodsy@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Now I'm confused.
                                        >
                                        > Chuck said "She said several times that one of the reasons
                                        she
                                        > wouldn't publish her biography was that to do it properly would
                                        mean
                                        > spilling all the sexual beans and that she had concerns about
                                        what
                                        > this could potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted
                                        to
                                        > her priest in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking
                                        she
                                        > wanted a drink and when she read about sex she got excited.
                                        So she
                                        > opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for
                                        impressionable
                                        > young women."
                                        >
                                        > But then, some people say one thing one day and the opposite
                                        another
                                        > day - maybe a way to hold onto a little privacy.
                                        >
                                        > Anita M.
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • nutsaboutclara
                                        Brooksie was trying to protect herself from what others said about her. She never did trust people whom she met and later talked trash about her. Brooksie
                                        Message 19 of 29 , May 12, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Brooksie was trying to protect herself from what others said about
                                          her. She never did trust people whom she met and later talked trash
                                          about her. Brooksie was one tough egg to crack, that's for sure.

                                          -Dario.


                                          --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M."
                                          <Woodsy@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Now I'm confused.
                                          >
                                          > Chuck said "She said several times that one of the reasons she
                                          > wouldn't publish her biography was that to do it properly would
                                          mean
                                          > spilling all the sexual beans and that she had concerns about what
                                          > this could potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted
                                          to
                                          > her priest in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she
                                          > wanted a drink and when she read about sex she got excited. So she
                                          > opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable
                                          > young women."
                                          >
                                          > But then, some people say one thing one day and the opposite
                                          another
                                          > day - maybe a way to hold onto a little privacy.
                                          >
                                          > Anita M.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                                          > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                                          > > children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                                          > > child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                                          > > ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed
                                          > little
                                          > > brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                                          > > selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and
                                          it
                                          > > was easier to torch than try and rewrite...
                                          > >
                                          > > It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of
                                          > one
                                          > > whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                                          > > went.
                                          > >
                                          > > But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                                          > > words that just don't seem to go together...
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                                          > > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in
                                          respect
                                          > > to underage
                                          > > > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                                          > > impressionable and most
                                          > > > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my
                                          > life,
                                          > > illegal
                                          > > > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                                          > > people who bought
                                          > > > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                                          > > adventures
                                          > > > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                                          > > carries any
                                          > > > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her
                                          day
                                          > > "spilling
                                          > > > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it.
                                          (If
                                          > > you ever
                                          > > > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                                          > > celebrities are
                                          > > > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                                          > > want to see
                                          > > > them or not.)
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Anita M.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > _____
                                          > > >
                                          > > > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                                          > > Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                                          > > > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                                          > > > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                                          > > Profile?
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Perri Lee,
                                          > > >
                                          > > > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                                          > > publish her
                                          > > > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all
                                          the
                                          > > sexual
                                          > > > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                                          > > potentially do to
                                          > > > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-
                                          50s
                                          > > that when
                                          > > > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                                          > > read about sex she
                                          > > > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                                          > > concern for
                                          > > > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                                          > > renounce her
                                          > > > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other
                                          > hand
                                          > > she was
                                          > > > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                                          > > lifestyle as desirable
                                          > > > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                                          > > contradictions of
                                          > > > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                                          > > proof of her
                                          > > > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
                                          being
                                          > > anything
                                          > > > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions
                                          beliefs
                                          > > of her
                                          > > > region and her day". The only periods in her life where
                                          religion
                                          > > was
                                          > > > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                                          > > attended a
                                          > > > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                                          > > evidently have
                                          > > > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                                          > > Manhatten), and for
                                          > > > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                                          > > certainly don't
                                          > > > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                                          > > for the
                                          > > > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion
                                          was
                                          > > ambivalence
                                          > > > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                                          > > that she left
                                          > > > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                                          > > note in her
                                          > > > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think
                                          > she
                                          > > had a
                                          > > > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                                          > > religious
                                          > > > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Cheers!
                                          > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did
                                          > not
                                          > > want to
                                          > > > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all
                                          the
                                          > > escapades
                                          > > > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also
                                          mixed
                                          > > with the
                                          > > > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
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