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RE: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?

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  • Anita M
    She was a self-made woman, as you described. That’s what makes her so admirable to me – that she got so far starting with so little. But she was every bit
    Message 1 of 29 , Apr 29, 2007
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      She was a self-made woman, as you described. That’s what makes her so
      admirable to me – that she got so far starting with so little. But she was
      every bit as tragic as Marilyn Monroe, IMO; she never truly overcame her
      inner ‘demons’ so she sabotaged herself and drove away anyone who got close
      to her. I’d like to know the whole story of her dismissal from Denishawn.
      I’d read that she drank heavily and often didn’t show up for rehearsals.
      Today we have help for kids with drinking/drug problems, anti-social
      behavior, victims of abuse, etc. Unfortunately, such programs didn’t exist
      then.



      I’ve just joined the group, too, and have read only “Lulu in Hollywood” and
      whatever I can find on the net. I also have the “Biography” special on DVD.
      I see that Barry Paris’ bio is a must.



      (Neve Campbell certainly looks the part!)



      Anita M.
    • Chuck Golden
      Anita, She wasn t quite the fully-fledged hellion yet when she was kicked off the Denishawn team, but she was well on her way. She went to New York with a
      Message 2 of 29 , Apr 30, 2007
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        Anita,

        She wasn't quite the fully-fledged hellion yet when she was kicked
        off the Denishawn team, but she was well on her way. She went to New
        York with a chaperone at first, but she quickly graduated from paying
        student to paid troupe member with lots of travel involved. Barry
        Paris doesn't say much if anything about the chaperone when Louise
        was picked up as a regular. Likely she went home to Kansas soon
        thereafter. On the road, she was required to be above moral and
        social reproach, but she wasn't always. She was the subject of a lot
        of rumors and her reputation soured. She was evidently sneaking
        around to clubs and not coming back to the room until wake-up time.
        Being an incredible dancer, however, her pecadillos were overlooked
        for the most part. She toured, and starred, with the troupe for two
        seasons, getting harder and harder to manage all the time, more
        independent, more stubborn, fuller and fuller of herself. Finally,
        she came into a group meeting late and the boss gave her the heave-ho
        in front of everybody. Not so much as a word of caution is ever
        mentioned as I recalled. She just crossed the line once too many
        times and got the boot. Ruth St. Denis gave told her she was being
        dismissed because she wanted the world on a silver salver. Soon
        after that, she was dancing in Scandals and later Zeigfield, that's
        when she really started racing the party engine. Hope this helps!

        And do get the Barry Paris book, you'll love it.



        --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
        <Woodsy@...> wrote:
        >
        > She was a self-made woman, as you described. That's what makes her
        so
        > admirable to me – that she got so far starting with so little. But
        she was
        > every bit as tragic as Marilyn Monroe, IMO; she never truly
        overcame her
        > inner `demons' so she sabotaged herself and drove away anyone who
        got close
        > to her. I'd like to know the whole story of her dismissal from
        Denishawn.
        > I'd read that she drank heavily and often didn't show up for
        rehearsals.
        > Today we have help for kids with drinking/drug problems, anti-social
        > behavior, victims of abuse, etc. Unfortunately, such programs
        didn't exist
        > then.
        >
        >
        >
        > I've just joined the group, too, and have read only "Lulu in
        Hollywood" and
        > whatever I can find on the net. I also have the "Biography" special
        on DVD.
        > I see that Barry Paris' bio is a must.
        >
        >
        >
        > (Neve Campbell certainly looks the part!)
        >
        >
        >
        > Anita M.
        >
      • Perri Lee
        In one of her bio s she was quoted as saying I love to drink and fuck she was quite the party girl. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall the
        Message 3 of 29 , Apr 30, 2007
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          In one of her bio's she was quoted as saying "I love to drink and fuck" she was quite the party girl. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall the afternoon her and Charlie Chaplin and another woman was in a hotel room all after noon and was drinking and Louise doing the Charleston..That was a story in one of the bio's . Happy reading

          Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: Anita,

          She wasn't quite the fully-fledged hellion yet when she was kicked
          off the Denishawn team, but she was well on her way. She went to New
          York with a chaperone at first, but she quickly graduated from paying
          student to paid troupe member with lots of travel involved. Barry
          Paris doesn't say much if anything about the chaperone when Louise
          was picked up as a regular. Likely she went home to Kansas soon
          thereafter. On the road, she was required to be above moral and
          social reproach, but she wasn't always. She was the subject of a lot
          of rumors and her reputation soured. She was evidently sneaking
          around to clubs and not coming back to the room until wake-up time.
          Being an incredible dancer, however, her pecadillos were overlooked
          for the most part. She toured, and starred, with the troupe for two
          seasons, getting harder and harder to manage all the time, more
          independent, more stubborn, fuller and fuller of herself. Finally,
          she came into a group meeting late and the boss gave her the heave-ho
          in front of everybody. Not so much as a word of caution is ever
          mentioned as I recalled. She just crossed the line once too many
          times and got the boot. Ruth St. Denis gave told her she was being
          dismissed because she wanted the world on a silver salver. Soon
          after that, she was dancing in Scandals and later Zeigfield, that's
          when she really started racing the party engine. Hope this helps!

          And do get the Barry Paris book, you'll love it.

          --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
          <Woodsy@...> wrote:
          >
          > She was a self-made woman, as you described. That's what makes her
          so
          > admirable to me – that she got so far starting with so little. But
          she was
          > every bit as tragic as Marilyn Monroe, IMO; she never truly
          overcame her
          > inner `demons' so she sabotaged herself and drove away anyone who
          got close
          > to her. I'd like to know the whole story of her dismissal from
          Denishawn.
          > I'd read that she drank heavily and often didn't show up for
          rehearsals.
          > Today we have help for kids with drinking/drug problems, anti-social
          > behavior, victims of abuse, etc. Unfortunately, such programs
          didn't exist
          > then.
          >
          >
          >
          > I've just joined the group, too, and have read only "Lulu in
          Hollywood" and
          > whatever I can find on the net. I also have the "Biography" special
          on DVD.
          > I see that Barry Paris' bio is a must.
          >
          >
          >
          > (Neve Campbell certainly looks the part!)
          >
          >
          >
          > Anita M.
          >






          Perri Lee Leuthard



          ---------------------------------
          Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
          Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • nutsaboutclara
          I don t think she feared success; I think she hated its intensity more than anything else. Plus, she hated, I think, the empty that accompanies success
          Message 4 of 29 , Apr 30, 2007
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            I don't think she feared success; I think she hated its intensity
            more than anything else. Plus, she hated, I think, the empty that
            accompanies success sometimes. But, that's just a thought of mine.

            -Dario.


            --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
            <Woodsy@...> wrote:
            >
            > True, she pretty much said she "raised herself." There are several
            reasons
            > she didn't want to succeed, some we can guess at and some we'll
            never know.
            >
            >
            >
            > AM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            > nutsaboutclara
            > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:34 PM
            > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psycological Profile?
            >
            >
            >
            > Yes she was, Jennifer. A fascinating person, indeed. Yes, I agree
            > with you that Brooksie was a bit afraid of success, but, I think
            her
            > troubles were that both of her parents didn't give her enough
            > attention that they should have to her and her siblings. As
            Brooksie
            > herself said one time, just to paraphrase her, her parents were
            more
            > in love with each other than with their kids. They prefered that
            > their childern, or "squaling brats" fend for themselves.
            >
            > -Dario.
            >
            > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
            > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
            brooks@yahoogroups.com,
            > SMILEYJEN1@
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > She is a most fascinating creature. My own amateur opinion is
            that
            > she
            > > was afraid of success; more specifically, what would happen if she
            > > allowed herself to be happy with it. Think back to Mr Flowers. She
            > > followed a friendly face that promised her pleasant things, only
            to
            > strip
            > > her of her childhood in return. This seemed to be a prevailing
            > theme in
            > > her life - she would never be complacent again.
            > >
            > > Yes, I was a psych minor in college,
            > > Jennifer ^_^
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:56:30 -0000 nutsaboutclara
            > > <no_reply@yahoogroup <mailto:no_reply%40yahoogroups.com> s.com>
            writes:
            > > To the both of you, there has never been a psychological study on
            > > Louise Brooks, because she is virtually unknown to most film
            > > viewers, especially since most film viewers are NOT silent film
            > fans
            > > at all. It's a very tiny community, the silent film viewing
            > > community, but a very fierce and loyal bunch, to be sure. In
            fact,
            > > there are many silent film fans who know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about
            > > Brooksie, which is a bit shocking.
            > >
            > > -Dario.
            > >
            > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
            > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
            brooks@yahoogroups.com,
            > Perri Lee
            > > <cheaptrickaz@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I don't think she was that complex. She was hot and she knew it
            > > and was a player that fully enjoyed life and refused to take
            > > negative energy off others.
            > > >
            > > > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@> wrote: Has anyone seen or
            > > know of any sort of psycological profile on Louise
            > > > Brooks? I'm in my third straight reading of Barry Paris' bio of
            > > her
            > > > and I find her to be psycologically baffling. What an
            incredibly
            > > > complex person!
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Perri Lee Leuthard
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ---------------------------------
            > > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
            > > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • nutsaboutclara
            WHOOPS!!!!! I meant emptiness. Sorry, folks! -Dario. ... several ... Profile? ... she ... She ... only ... on ... about ... it ... of
            Message 5 of 29 , May 5 9:37 AM
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              WHOOPS!!!!! I meant "emptiness." Sorry, folks!

              -Dario.


              --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, nutsaboutclara
              <no_reply@...> wrote:
              >
              > I don't think she feared success; I think she hated its intensity
              > more than anything else. Plus, she hated, I think, the empty that
              > accompanies success sometimes. But, that's just a thought of mine.
              >
              > -Dario.
              >
              >
              > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
              > <Woodsy@> wrote:
              > >
              > > True, she pretty much said she "raised herself." There are
              several
              > reasons
              > > she didn't want to succeed, some we can guess at and some we'll
              > never know.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > AM
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > _____
              > >
              > > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
              > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              > > nutsaboutclara
              > > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:34 PM
              > > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psycological
              Profile?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yes she was, Jennifer. A fascinating person, indeed. Yes, I agree
              > > with you that Brooksie was a bit afraid of success, but, I think
              > her
              > > troubles were that both of her parents didn't give her enough
              > > attention that they should have to her and her siblings. As
              > Brooksie
              > > herself said one time, just to paraphrase her, her parents were
              > more
              > > in love with each other than with their kids. They prefered that
              > > their childern, or "squaling brats" fend for themselves.
              > >
              > > -Dario.
              > >
              > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
              > > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
              > brooks@yahoogroups.com,
              > > SMILEYJEN1@
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > She is a most fascinating creature. My own amateur opinion is
              > that
              > > she
              > > > was afraid of success; more specifically, what would happen if
              she
              > > > allowed herself to be happy with it. Think back to Mr Flowers.
              She
              > > > followed a friendly face that promised her pleasant things,
              only
              > to
              > > strip
              > > > her of her childhood in return. This seemed to be a prevailing
              > > theme in
              > > > her life - she would never be complacent again.
              > > >
              > > > Yes, I was a psych minor in college,
              > > > Jennifer ^_^
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:56:30 -0000 nutsaboutclara
              > > > <no_reply@yahoogroup <mailto:no_reply%40yahoogroups.com> s.com>
              > writes:
              > > > To the both of you, there has never been a psychological study
              on
              > > > Louise Brooks, because she is virtually unknown to most film
              > > > viewers, especially since most film viewers are NOT silent film
              > > fans
              > > > at all. It's a very tiny community, the silent film viewing
              > > > community, but a very fierce and loyal bunch, to be sure. In
              > fact,
              > > > there are many silent film fans who know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
              about
              > > > Brooksie, which is a bit shocking.
              > > >
              > > > -Dario.
              > > >
              > > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
              > > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
              > brooks@yahoogroups.com,
              > > Perri Lee
              > > > <cheaptrickaz@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > I don't think she was that complex. She was hot and she knew
              it
              > > > and was a player that fully enjoyed life and refused to take
              > > > negative energy off others.
              > > > >
              > > > > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@> wrote: Has anyone seen or
              > > > know of any sort of psycological profile on Louise
              > > > > Brooks? I'm in my third straight reading of Barry Paris' bio
              of
              > > > her
              > > > > and I find her to be psycologically baffling. What an
              > incredibly
              > > > > complex person!
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Perri Lee Leuthard
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > ---------------------------------
              > > > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
              > > > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
            • olive_e_thomas
              The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her book club Louise would likely
              Message 6 of 29 , May 5 8:26 PM
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                The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
              • Anita M
                I can understand that, and I wouldn’t blame her, either. Anita M. Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult that you do. -
                Message 7 of 29 , May 6 5:13 AM
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                  I can understand that, and I wouldn’t blame her, either.



                  Anita M.



                  "Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult
                  that you do." - Elizabeth Goudge

                  _____

                  From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  olive_e_thomas
                  Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 10:27 PM
                  To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



                  The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                  personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                  book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                  success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Anita M
                  No worries; we know what you meant ;-) Anita M. Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult that you do. - Elizabeth Goudge
                  Message 8 of 29 , May 6 5:15 AM
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                    No worries; we know what you meant ;-)



                    Anita M.



                    "Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult
                    that you do." - Elizabeth Goudge

                    _____

                    From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    nutsaboutclara
                    Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:38 AM
                    To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



                    WHOOPS!!!!! I meant "emptiness." Sorry, folks!

                    -Dario.

                    --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                    <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com,
                    nutsaboutclara
                    <no_reply@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I don't think she feared success; I think she hated its intensity
                    > more than anything else. Plus, she hated, I think, the empty that
                    > accompanies success sometimes. But, that's just a thought of mine.
                    >
                    > -Dario.
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                    <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com,
                    "Anita M"
                    > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > True, she pretty much said she "raised herself." There are
                    several
                    > reasons
                    > > she didn't want to succeed, some we can guess at and some we'll
                    > never know.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > AM
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > _____
                    > >
                    > > From: thenewcovenoflouise
                    <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com
                    > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouise
                    <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of
                    > > nutsaboutclara
                    > > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:34 PM
                    > > To: thenewcovenoflouise
                    <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psycological
                    Profile?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yes she was, Jennifer. A fascinating person, indeed. Yes, I agree
                    > > with you that Brooksie was a bit afraid of success, but, I think
                    > her
                    > > troubles were that both of her parents didn't give her enough
                    > > attention that they should have to her and her siblings. As
                    > Brooksie
                    > > herself said one time, just to paraphrase her, her parents were
                    > more
                    > > in love with each other than with their kids. They prefered that
                    > > their childern, or "squaling brats" fend for themselves.
                    > >
                    > > -Dario.
                    > >
                    > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                    > > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > brooks@yahoogroups. <mailto:brooks%40yahoogroups.com> com,
                    > > SMILEYJEN1@
                    > > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > She is a most fascinating creature. My own amateur opinion is
                    > that
                    > > she
                    > > > was afraid of success; more specifically, what would happen if
                    she
                    > > > allowed herself to be happy with it. Think back to Mr Flowers.
                    She
                    > > > followed a friendly face that promised her pleasant things,
                    only
                    > to
                    > > strip
                    > > > her of her childhood in return. This seemed to be a prevailing
                    > > theme in
                    > > > her life - she would never be complacent again.
                    > > >
                    > > > Yes, I was a psych minor in college,
                    > > > Jennifer ^_^
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:56:30 -0000 nutsaboutclara
                    > > > <no_reply@yahoogroup <mailto:no_reply%40yahoogroups.com> s.com>
                    > writes:
                    > > > To the both of you, there has never been a psychological study
                    on
                    > > > Louise Brooks, because she is virtually unknown to most film
                    > > > viewers, especially since most film viewers are NOT silent film
                    > > fans
                    > > > at all. It's a very tiny community, the silent film viewing
                    > > > community, but a very fierce and loyal bunch, to be sure. In
                    > fact,
                    > > > there are many silent film fans who know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
                    about
                    > > > Brooksie, which is a bit shocking.
                    > > >
                    > > > -Dario.
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                    > > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > brooks@yahoogroups. <mailto:brooks%40yahoogroups.com> com,
                    > > Perri Lee
                    > > > <cheaptrickaz@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I don't think she was that complex. She was hot and she knew
                    it
                    > > > and was a player that fully enjoyed life and refused to take
                    > > > negative energy off others.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@> wrote: Has anyone seen or
                    > > > know of any sort of psycological profile on Louise
                    > > > > Brooks? I'm in my third straight reading of Barry Paris' bio
                    of
                    > > > her
                    > > > > and I find her to be psycologically baffling. What an
                    > incredibly
                    > > > > complex person!
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Perri Lee Leuthard
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > ---------------------------------
                    > > > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                    > > > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Chuck Golden
                    I think you ve hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality. All through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it s evident that she had to be in
                    Message 9 of 29 , May 6 6:28 AM
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                      I think you've hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality. All
                      through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident that
                      she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but in
                      control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster piece "The
                      Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to the
                      top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                      from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without her
                      knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                      ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite the
                      increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                      excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                      involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                      wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation where
                      she couldn't be 100% in control of it.

                      Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out there?
                      Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls far
                      from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something as
                      simple as that.


                      --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                      <no_reply@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                      > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                      > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                      > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                      >
                    • Perri Lee
                      I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not want to publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the escapades she was
                      Message 10 of 29 , May 6 11:34 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not want to publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the escapades she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed with the twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee

                        Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: I think you've hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality. All
                        through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident that
                        she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but in
                        control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster piece "The
                        Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to the
                        top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                        from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without her
                        knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                        ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite the
                        increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                        excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                        involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                        wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation where
                        she couldn't be 100% in control of it.

                        Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out there?
                        Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls far
                        from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something as
                        simple as that.

                        --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                        <no_reply@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                        > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                        > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                        > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                        >






                        Perri Lee Leuthard



                        ---------------------------------
                        Don't pick lemons.
                        See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Anita M
                        I m not sure that public knowledge of her escapades would have bothered her. She never appeared to be embarrassed about anything she did, nor cared what anyone
                        Message 11 of 29 , May 7 5:38 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I'm not sure that public knowledge of her escapades would have bothered her.
                          She never appeared to be embarrassed about anything she did, nor cared what
                          anyone else thought of her. I think it was a 100% control issue.



                          Anita M.

                          _____

                          From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                          [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Perri Lee
                          Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 1:35 PM
                          To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



                          I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not want to
                          publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the escapades
                          she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed with the
                          twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee

                          Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@yahoo. <mailto:bagnoli2%40yahoo.com> com> wrote: I
                          think you've hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality. All through
                          the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident that she had to be
                          in control - not so much in control of the people but in control of the
                          situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster piece "The Girl in the Black
                          Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to the top of the public
                          consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word from him that he'd been out
                          on the West Coast discussing (without her knowing it) a bio-pic with a major
                          Hollywood director. She went ballistic, refused any thought of letting the
                          film be done (despite the increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off
                          forever. She excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project
                          that involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                          wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation where she
                          couldn't be 100% in control of it.

                          Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out there?
                          Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls far from
                          the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something as simple as
                          that.

                          --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                          <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com,
                          olive_e_thomas
                          <no_reply@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of personal
                          control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her book club Louise
                          would likely refuse on the grounds any success would "belong" to Oprah and
                          not to her...
                          >

                          Perri Lee Leuthard

                          ---------------------------------
                          Don't pick lemons.
                          See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Chuck Golden
                          Perri Lee, She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn t publish her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the sexual
                          Message 12 of 29 , May 7 6:06 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Perri Lee,

                            She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't publish
                            her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                            sexual beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                            potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted to her priest
                            in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she wanted a drink
                            and when she read about sex she got excited. So she opted not to
                            publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable young women.
                            On the one hand, she wouldn't renounce her lifestyle (standing toe-to-
                            toe with her priest), on the other hand she was concerned about
                            having young girls see her habits and lifestyle as desirable and
                            exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant contradictions of
                            Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a proof
                            of her brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
                            being anything but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.

                            I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs of
                            her region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                            was mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                            attended a Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough
                            to evidently have a fling with an older man in the church before
                            moving to Manhatten), and for ten years as a Catholic between 1954
                            and 1964 in New York. I certainly don't see either of them as being
                            twisted in either location. Except for the Catholic period, I think
                            Louise's attitude towards religion was ambivalence rather than
                            antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring that she left the
                            Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of note in her
                            little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she
                            had a statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                            religious beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that
                            opinion.

                            Cheers!


                            --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, Perri Lee
                            <cheaptrickaz@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not
                            want to publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all
                            the escapades she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was
                            also mixed with the twisted religious beliefs of her region and her
                            day. Perri Lee
                            >
                            > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: I think you've hit on
                            one of THE major aspects of her personality. All
                            > through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident
                            that
                            > she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but
                            in
                            > control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster
                            piece "The
                            > Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to
                            the
                            > top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                            > from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without
                            her
                            > knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                            > ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite
                            the
                            > increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                            > excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                            > involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                            > wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation
                            where
                            > she couldn't be 100% in control of it.
                            >
                            > Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out
                            there?
                            > Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls
                            far
                            > from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something
                            as
                            > simple as that.
                            >
                            > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                            > <no_reply@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                            > > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                            > > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                            > > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Perri Lee Leuthard
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Don't pick lemons.
                            > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Perri Lee
                            I still beleive that the reason she did not publish was some how tied to the twisted religious moral thing. It is why I feel she did not write and it still is
                            Message 13 of 29 , May 7 8:49 AM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I still beleive that the reason she did not publish was some how tied to the twisted religious moral thing. It is why I feel she did not write and it still is the same thing and reason why people and persons hold themselves back today. But of course this is getting to be too large of a subject for this group. thanks

                              Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: Perri Lee,

                              She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't publish
                              her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                              sexual beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                              potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted to her priest
                              in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she wanted a drink
                              and when she read about sex she got excited. So she opted not to
                              publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable young women.
                              On the one hand, she wouldn't renounce her lifestyle (standing toe-to-
                              toe with her priest), on the other hand she was concerned about
                              having young girls see her habits and lifestyle as desirable and
                              exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant contradictions of
                              Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a proof
                              of her brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
                              being anything but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.

                              I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs of
                              her region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                              was mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                              attended a Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough
                              to evidently have a fling with an older man in the church before
                              moving to Manhatten), and for ten years as a Catholic between 1954
                              and 1964 in New York. I certainly don't see either of them as being
                              twisted in either location. Except for the Catholic period, I think
                              Louise's attitude towards religion was ambivalence rather than
                              antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring that she left the
                              Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of note in her
                              little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she
                              had a statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                              religious beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that
                              opinion.

                              Cheers!

                              --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, Perri Lee
                              <cheaptrickaz@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not
                              want to publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all
                              the escapades she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was
                              also mixed with the twisted religious beliefs of her region and her
                              day. Perri Lee
                              >
                              > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: I think you've hit on
                              one of THE major aspects of her personality. All
                              > through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident
                              that
                              > she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but
                              in
                              > control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster
                              piece "The
                              > Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to
                              the
                              > top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                              > from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without
                              her
                              > knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                              > ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite
                              the
                              > increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                              > excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                              > involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                              > wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation
                              where
                              > she couldn't be 100% in control of it.
                              >
                              > Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out
                              there?
                              > Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls
                              far
                              > from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something
                              as
                              > simple as that.
                              >
                              > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                              > <no_reply@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                              > > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                              > > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                              > > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Perri Lee Leuthard
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ---------------------------------
                              > Don't pick lemons.
                              > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >






                              Perri Lee Leuthard



                              ---------------------------------
                              Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                              Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Anita M
                              IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect to underage girls, who (judging from my own experience) are impressionable and most likely to
                              Message 14 of 29 , May 7 9:15 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect to underage
                                girls, who (judging from my own experience) are impressionable and most
                                likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my life, illegal
                                drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew people who bought
                                into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her adventures
                                and saying at the end “don’t do what I did,” (which seldom carries any
                                weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.



                                Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day “spilling
                                the sexual beans” could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If you ever
                                have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which celebrities are
                                doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you want to see
                                them or not.)



                                Anita M.



                                _____

                                From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                                Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                                To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



                                Perri Lee,

                                She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't publish her
                                biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the sexual
                                beans and that she had concerns about what this could potentially do to
                                influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s that when
                                she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she read about sex she
                                got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for
                                impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't renounce her
                                lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other hand she was
                                concerned about having young girls see her habits and lifestyle as desirable
                                and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant contradictions of
                                Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a proof of her
                                brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on being anything
                                but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.

                                I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs of her
                                region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion was
                                mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she attended a
                                Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to evidently have
                                a fling with an older man in the church before moving to Manhatten), and for
                                ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I certainly don't
                                see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except for the
                                Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was ambivalence
                                rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring that she left
                                the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of note in her
                                little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she had a
                                statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the religious
                                beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.

                                Cheers!

                                >
                                > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not want to
                                publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the escapades
                                she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed with the
                                twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • nutsaboutclara
                                That s quite true, Olive. Brooksie always wanted to control the situation, so that she could be the center of attention. It was that way at home, when she
                                Message 15 of 29 , May 7 10:30 AM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  That's quite true, Olive. Brooksie always wanted to control the
                                  situation, so that she could be the center of attention. It was that
                                  way at home, when she and her mother bickered, and it continued well
                                  into adulthood. She was her own marching band, which turned a lot of
                                  people off, that's for sure.

                                  -Dario.


                                  --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                                  <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                                  > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                                  > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                                  > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                                  >
                                • nutsaboutclara
                                  She was a very willful person, Chuck; it was her way and nothing else. Clara Bow was like that to an extent, but she was outgoing and cheerful towards all
                                  Message 16 of 29 , May 7 10:34 AM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    She was a very willful person, Chuck; it was her way and nothing
                                    else. Clara Bow was like that to an extent, but she was outgoing and
                                    cheerful towards all that met Clara. But Brooksie was moody,
                                    taciturn at times, and an intelectual snob, who thought that she was
                                    above everyone when it came film(film history, film making, actors &
                                    actresses, etc.), literature, politics, sex, male/female
                                    relationships, etc. And, very opinionated. But, I love her for it,
                                    because she would be who she was if she wasn't that in the first
                                    place. I marvel at her strong sense of independence. That made her
                                    stand out more than her contemporaries.

                                    -Dario.



                                    --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Golden"
                                    <bagnoli2@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I think you've hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality.
                                    All
                                    > through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident
                                    that
                                    > she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but
                                    in
                                    > control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster
                                    piece "The
                                    > Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to
                                    the
                                    > top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                                    > from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without
                                    her
                                    > knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                                    > ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite
                                    the
                                    > increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                                    > excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                                    > involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                                    > wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation
                                    where
                                    > she couldn't be 100% in control of it.
                                    >
                                    > Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out
                                    there?
                                    > Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls
                                    far
                                    > from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something
                                    as
                                    > simple as that.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                                    > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                                    > > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                                    > > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                                    > > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • olive_e_thomas
                                    I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of child-care in that respect). My guess is
                                    Message 17 of 29 , May 7 12:24 PM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                                      children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                                      child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                                      ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed little
                                      brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                                      selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and it
                                      was easier to torch than try and rewrite...

                                      It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of one
                                      whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                                      went.

                                      But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                                      words that just don't seem to go together...

                                      --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                                      <Woodsy@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect
                                      to underage
                                      > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                                      impressionable and most
                                      > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my life,
                                      illegal
                                      > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                                      people who bought
                                      > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                                      adventures
                                      > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                                      carries any
                                      > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day
                                      "spilling
                                      > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If
                                      you ever
                                      > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                                      celebrities are
                                      > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                                      want to see
                                      > them or not.)
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Anita M.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > _____
                                      >
                                      > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                      > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                                      Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                                      > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                                      > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                                      Profile?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Perri Lee,
                                      >
                                      > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                                      publish her
                                      > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                                      sexual
                                      > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                                      potentially do to
                                      > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s
                                      that when
                                      > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                                      read about sex she
                                      > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                                      concern for
                                      > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                                      renounce her
                                      > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other hand
                                      she was
                                      > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                                      lifestyle as desirable
                                      > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                                      contradictions of
                                      > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                                      proof of her
                                      > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on being
                                      anything
                                      > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                                      >
                                      > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs
                                      of her
                                      > region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                                      was
                                      > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                                      attended a
                                      > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                                      evidently have
                                      > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                                      Manhatten), and for
                                      > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                                      certainly don't
                                      > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                                      for the
                                      > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was
                                      ambivalence
                                      > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                                      that she left
                                      > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                                      note in her
                                      > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she
                                      had a
                                      > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                                      religious
                                      > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                                      >
                                      > Cheers!
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not
                                      want to
                                      > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the
                                      escapades
                                      > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed
                                      with the
                                      > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                    • nutsaboutclara
                                      HEAR, HEAR!!! Discriminatory would probably be a better word for what Brooksie was all about, in respect to people, art, literature, etc. You hit the nail on
                                      Message 18 of 29 , May 9 10:58 AM
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                                        HEAR, HEAR!!! Discriminatory would probably be a better word for
                                        what Brooksie was all about, in respect to people, art, literature,
                                        etc. You hit the nail on the head perfectly, Olive. Kudos!

                                        -Dario.


                                        --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                                        <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                                        > children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                                        > child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                                        > ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed
                                        little
                                        > brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                                        > selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and
                                        it
                                        > was easier to torch than try and rewrite...
                                        >
                                        > It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of
                                        one
                                        > whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                                        > went.
                                        >
                                        > But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                                        > words that just don't seem to go together...
                                        >
                                        > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                                        > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect
                                        > to underage
                                        > > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                                        > impressionable and most
                                        > > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my
                                        life,
                                        > illegal
                                        > > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                                        > people who bought
                                        > > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                                        > adventures
                                        > > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                                        > carries any
                                        > > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day
                                        > "spilling
                                        > > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If
                                        > you ever
                                        > > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                                        > celebrities are
                                        > > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                                        > want to see
                                        > > them or not.)
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Anita M.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > _____
                                        > >
                                        > > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                                        > Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                                        > > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                                        > > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                                        > Profile?
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Perri Lee,
                                        > >
                                        > > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                                        > publish her
                                        > > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                                        > sexual
                                        > > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                                        > potentially do to
                                        > > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s
                                        > that when
                                        > > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                                        > read about sex she
                                        > > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                                        > concern for
                                        > > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                                        > renounce her
                                        > > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other
                                        hand
                                        > she was
                                        > > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                                        > lifestyle as desirable
                                        > > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                                        > contradictions of
                                        > > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                                        > proof of her
                                        > > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
                                        being
                                        > anything
                                        > > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                                        > >
                                        > > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs
                                        > of her
                                        > > region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                                        > was
                                        > > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                                        > attended a
                                        > > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                                        > evidently have
                                        > > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                                        > Manhatten), and for
                                        > > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                                        > certainly don't
                                        > > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                                        > for the
                                        > > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was
                                        > ambivalence
                                        > > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                                        > that she left
                                        > > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                                        > note in her
                                        > > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think
                                        she
                                        > had a
                                        > > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                                        > religious
                                        > > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                                        > >
                                        > > Cheers!
                                        > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did
                                        not
                                        > want to
                                        > > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the
                                        > escapades
                                        > > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed
                                        > with the
                                        > > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • Anita M.
                                        Now I m confused. Chuck said She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn t publish her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling
                                        Message 19 of 29 , May 9 6:20 PM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Now I'm confused.

                                          Chuck said "She said several times that one of the reasons she
                                          wouldn't publish her biography was that to do it properly would mean
                                          spilling all the sexual beans and that she had concerns about what
                                          this could potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted to
                                          her priest in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she
                                          wanted a drink and when she read about sex she got excited. So she
                                          opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable
                                          young women."

                                          But then, some people say one thing one day and the opposite another
                                          day - maybe a way to hold onto a little privacy.

                                          Anita M.


                                          --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                                          <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                                          > children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                                          > child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                                          > ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed
                                          little
                                          > brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                                          > selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and it
                                          > was easier to torch than try and rewrite...
                                          >
                                          > It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of
                                          one
                                          > whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                                          > went.
                                          >
                                          > But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                                          > words that just don't seem to go together...
                                          >
                                          > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                                          > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect
                                          > to underage
                                          > > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                                          > impressionable and most
                                          > > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my
                                          life,
                                          > illegal
                                          > > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                                          > people who bought
                                          > > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                                          > adventures
                                          > > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                                          > carries any
                                          > > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day
                                          > "spilling
                                          > > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If
                                          > you ever
                                          > > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                                          > celebrities are
                                          > > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                                          > want to see
                                          > > them or not.)
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Anita M.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > _____
                                          > >
                                          > > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                                          > Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                                          > > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                                          > > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                                          > Profile?
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Perri Lee,
                                          > >
                                          > > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                                          > publish her
                                          > > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                                          > sexual
                                          > > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                                          > potentially do to
                                          > > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s
                                          > that when
                                          > > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                                          > read about sex she
                                          > > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                                          > concern for
                                          > > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                                          > renounce her
                                          > > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other
                                          hand
                                          > she was
                                          > > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                                          > lifestyle as desirable
                                          > > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                                          > contradictions of
                                          > > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                                          > proof of her
                                          > > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on being
                                          > anything
                                          > > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                                          > >
                                          > > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs
                                          > of her
                                          > > region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                                          > was
                                          > > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                                          > attended a
                                          > > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                                          > evidently have
                                          > > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                                          > Manhatten), and for
                                          > > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                                          > certainly don't
                                          > > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                                          > for the
                                          > > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was
                                          > ambivalence
                                          > > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                                          > that she left
                                          > > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                                          > note in her
                                          > > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think
                                          she
                                          > had a
                                          > > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                                          > religious
                                          > > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                                          > >
                                          > > Cheers!
                                          > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did
                                          not
                                          > want to
                                          > > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the
                                          > escapades
                                          > > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed
                                          > with the
                                          > > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • olive_e_thomas
                                          Some clue as to her reasoning might be found in her comments after turning down Playboy magazine for a writing job all they want is (an article about) tits
                                          Message 20 of 29 , May 9 6:30 PM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Some clue as to her reasoning might be found in her comments
                                            after turning down Playboy magazine for a writing job "all they
                                            want is (an article about) tits and free-fucking for men."

                                            --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M."
                                            <Woodsy@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Now I'm confused.
                                            >
                                            > Chuck said "She said several times that one of the reasons
                                            she
                                            > wouldn't publish her biography was that to do it properly would
                                            mean
                                            > spilling all the sexual beans and that she had concerns about
                                            what
                                            > this could potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted
                                            to
                                            > her priest in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking
                                            she
                                            > wanted a drink and when she read about sex she got excited.
                                            So she
                                            > opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for
                                            impressionable
                                            > young women."
                                            >
                                            > But then, some people say one thing one day and the opposite
                                            another
                                            > day - maybe a way to hold onto a little privacy.
                                            >
                                            > Anita M.
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • nutsaboutclara
                                            Brooksie was trying to protect herself from what others said about her. She never did trust people whom she met and later talked trash about her. Brooksie
                                            Message 21 of 29 , May 12 10:45 AM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Brooksie was trying to protect herself from what others said about
                                              her. She never did trust people whom she met and later talked trash
                                              about her. Brooksie was one tough egg to crack, that's for sure.

                                              -Dario.


                                              --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M."
                                              <Woodsy@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Now I'm confused.
                                              >
                                              > Chuck said "She said several times that one of the reasons she
                                              > wouldn't publish her biography was that to do it properly would
                                              mean
                                              > spilling all the sexual beans and that she had concerns about what
                                              > this could potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted
                                              to
                                              > her priest in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she
                                              > wanted a drink and when she read about sex she got excited. So she
                                              > opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable
                                              > young women."
                                              >
                                              > But then, some people say one thing one day and the opposite
                                              another
                                              > day - maybe a way to hold onto a little privacy.
                                              >
                                              > Anita M.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                                              > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                                              > > children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                                              > > child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                                              > > ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed
                                              > little
                                              > > brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                                              > > selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and
                                              it
                                              > > was easier to torch than try and rewrite...
                                              > >
                                              > > It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of
                                              > one
                                              > > whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                                              > > went.
                                              > >
                                              > > But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                                              > > words that just don't seem to go together...
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                                              > > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in
                                              respect
                                              > > to underage
                                              > > > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                                              > > impressionable and most
                                              > > > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my
                                              > life,
                                              > > illegal
                                              > > > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                                              > > people who bought
                                              > > > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                                              > > adventures
                                              > > > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                                              > > carries any
                                              > > > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her
                                              day
                                              > > "spilling
                                              > > > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it.
                                              (If
                                              > > you ever
                                              > > > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                                              > > celebrities are
                                              > > > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                                              > > want to see
                                              > > > them or not.)
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Anita M.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > _____
                                              > > >
                                              > > > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                                              > > Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                                              > > > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                                              > > > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                                              > > Profile?
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Perri Lee,
                                              > > >
                                              > > > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                                              > > publish her
                                              > > > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all
                                              the
                                              > > sexual
                                              > > > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                                              > > potentially do to
                                              > > > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-
                                              50s
                                              > > that when
                                              > > > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                                              > > read about sex she
                                              > > > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                                              > > concern for
                                              > > > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                                              > > renounce her
                                              > > > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other
                                              > hand
                                              > > she was
                                              > > > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                                              > > lifestyle as desirable
                                              > > > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                                              > > contradictions of
                                              > > > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                                              > > proof of her
                                              > > > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
                                              being
                                              > > anything
                                              > > > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions
                                              beliefs
                                              > > of her
                                              > > > region and her day". The only periods in her life where
                                              religion
                                              > > was
                                              > > > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                                              > > attended a
                                              > > > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                                              > > evidently have
                                              > > > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                                              > > Manhatten), and for
                                              > > > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                                              > > certainly don't
                                              > > > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                                              > > for the
                                              > > > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion
                                              was
                                              > > ambivalence
                                              > > > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                                              > > that she left
                                              > > > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                                              > > note in her
                                              > > > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think
                                              > she
                                              > > had a
                                              > > > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                                              > > religious
                                              > > > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Cheers!
                                              > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did
                                              > not
                                              > > want to
                                              > > > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all
                                              the
                                              > > escapades
                                              > > > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also
                                              mixed
                                              > > with the
                                              > > > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              >
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