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Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?

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  • Chuck Golden
    Thanks for the great discussion, everybody, I just joined the group and you seem like my kind of people. As originally mentioned, I m in my third reading of
    Message 1 of 29 , Apr 28, 2007
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      Thanks for the great discussion, everybody, I just joined the group
      and you seem like my kind of people. As originally mentioned, I'm in
      my third reading of Barry Paris's bio of her. It doesn't usually take
      very long to figure out a person. Whether you interact with them in
      person or read about them (with enough detail), you can normally put
      them into one or two catagories. Not Louise Brooks, at least with me
      so far. I'll be fourty-seven in a month or so, and I've dealt with
      thousands of people by now. I enjoy histories and biographies and
      have read a great many of both. Nobody I know or have studies so
      intrigues and disturbs me like Louise.

      Small-town girl, aesthete, great dancer, unbelievably well-read,
      articulate, undisciplined, sexually abused, emotionally abused,
      neglected, great actor, promiscuous, prostitute, Catholic,
      self-destructive, the list goes on and on. She was a high school
      dropout who was able to write like a professional at age seventeen,
      and did so. She had no formal acting training that I knew of, but at
      twenty-one she was Lulu. She was most likely of genious mentality but
      throughout her life she systematically did everything possible to
      destroy herself. She was such a complex, complex person.

      Like most everyone, I fully believe that her biggest problems sprang
      from her upbringing. You can't overstate the emotional damage brought
      onto a child by parental neglect and sexual abuse, and Louise suffered
      both of them. I can't help but wonder what she would have been like
      if her mother had shown her even a modicom of affection and hadn't
      blamed her when Louise told her mother at age nine for being raped by
      Mr. Flowers. I also believe, because she said as much when she was
      old, that she only wanted to be a dancer. The one thing in her life
      to which she had given focused and committed attention was her studies
      at Denishawn, and I think that her getting so viciously dismissed from
      the group at seventeen fractured something in her psyche that never
      healed. I could go on for hour. Ask my wife, she'll tell you. :o)

      Louise was wonderful. Disturbing, but wonderful. I wonder if I'd
      have liked her.
    • Perri Lee
      has anyone heard when Neve Cambell is going to get started on filming Louise s bio. I read she bought the rights and wanted to star in it. I hope she gets on
      Message 2 of 29 , Apr 28, 2007
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        has anyone heard when Neve Cambell is going to get started on filming Louise's bio. I read she bought the rights and wanted to star in it. I hope she gets on with it before she gets too old

        Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: Thanks for the great discussion, everybody, I just joined the group
        and you seem like my kind of people. As originally mentioned, I'm in
        my third reading of Barry Paris's bio of her. It doesn't usually take
        very long to figure out a person. Whether you interact with them in
        person or read about them (with enough detail), you can normally put
        them into one or two catagories. Not Louise Brooks, at least with me
        so far. I'll be fourty-seven in a month or so, and I've dealt with
        thousands of people by now. I enjoy histories and biographies and
        have read a great many of both. Nobody I know or have studies so
        intrigues and disturbs me like Louise.

        Small-town girl, aesthete, great dancer, unbelievably well-read,
        articulate, undisciplined, sexually abused, emotionally abused,
        neglected, great actor, promiscuous, prostitute, Catholic,
        self-destructive, the list goes on and on. She was a high school
        dropout who was able to write like a professional at age seventeen,
        and did so. She had no formal acting training that I knew of, but at
        twenty-one she was Lulu. She was most likely of genious mentality but
        throughout her life she systematically did everything possible to
        destroy herself. She was such a complex, complex person.

        Like most everyone, I fully believe that her biggest problems sprang
        from her upbringing. You can't overstate the emotional damage brought
        onto a child by parental neglect and sexual abuse, and Louise suffered
        both of them. I can't help but wonder what she would have been like
        if her mother had shown her even a modicom of affection and hadn't
        blamed her when Louise told her mother at age nine for being raped by
        Mr. Flowers. I also believe, because she said as much when she was
        old, that she only wanted to be a dancer. The one thing in her life
        to which she had given focused and committed attention was her studies
        at Denishawn, and I think that her getting so viciously dismissed from
        the group at seventeen fractured something in her psyche that never
        healed. I could go on for hour. Ask my wife, she'll tell you. :o)

        Louise was wonderful. Disturbing, but wonderful. I wonder if I'd
        have liked her.






        Perri Lee Leuthard



        ---------------------------------
        Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
        Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Anita M
        She was a self-made woman, as you described. That’s what makes her so admirable to me – that she got so far starting with so little. But she was every bit
        Message 3 of 29 , Apr 29, 2007
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          She was a self-made woman, as you described. That’s what makes her so
          admirable to me – that she got so far starting with so little. But she was
          every bit as tragic as Marilyn Monroe, IMO; she never truly overcame her
          inner ‘demons’ so she sabotaged herself and drove away anyone who got close
          to her. I’d like to know the whole story of her dismissal from Denishawn.
          I’d read that she drank heavily and often didn’t show up for rehearsals.
          Today we have help for kids with drinking/drug problems, anti-social
          behavior, victims of abuse, etc. Unfortunately, such programs didn’t exist
          then.



          I’ve just joined the group, too, and have read only “Lulu in Hollywood” and
          whatever I can find on the net. I also have the “Biography” special on DVD.
          I see that Barry Paris’ bio is a must.



          (Neve Campbell certainly looks the part!)



          Anita M.
        • Chuck Golden
          Anita, She wasn t quite the fully-fledged hellion yet when she was kicked off the Denishawn team, but she was well on her way. She went to New York with a
          Message 4 of 29 , Apr 30, 2007
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            Anita,

            She wasn't quite the fully-fledged hellion yet when she was kicked
            off the Denishawn team, but she was well on her way. She went to New
            York with a chaperone at first, but she quickly graduated from paying
            student to paid troupe member with lots of travel involved. Barry
            Paris doesn't say much if anything about the chaperone when Louise
            was picked up as a regular. Likely she went home to Kansas soon
            thereafter. On the road, she was required to be above moral and
            social reproach, but she wasn't always. She was the subject of a lot
            of rumors and her reputation soured. She was evidently sneaking
            around to clubs and not coming back to the room until wake-up time.
            Being an incredible dancer, however, her pecadillos were overlooked
            for the most part. She toured, and starred, with the troupe for two
            seasons, getting harder and harder to manage all the time, more
            independent, more stubborn, fuller and fuller of herself. Finally,
            she came into a group meeting late and the boss gave her the heave-ho
            in front of everybody. Not so much as a word of caution is ever
            mentioned as I recalled. She just crossed the line once too many
            times and got the boot. Ruth St. Denis gave told her she was being
            dismissed because she wanted the world on a silver salver. Soon
            after that, she was dancing in Scandals and later Zeigfield, that's
            when she really started racing the party engine. Hope this helps!

            And do get the Barry Paris book, you'll love it.



            --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
            <Woodsy@...> wrote:
            >
            > She was a self-made woman, as you described. That's what makes her
            so
            > admirable to me – that she got so far starting with so little. But
            she was
            > every bit as tragic as Marilyn Monroe, IMO; she never truly
            overcame her
            > inner `demons' so she sabotaged herself and drove away anyone who
            got close
            > to her. I'd like to know the whole story of her dismissal from
            Denishawn.
            > I'd read that she drank heavily and often didn't show up for
            rehearsals.
            > Today we have help for kids with drinking/drug problems, anti-social
            > behavior, victims of abuse, etc. Unfortunately, such programs
            didn't exist
            > then.
            >
            >
            >
            > I've just joined the group, too, and have read only "Lulu in
            Hollywood" and
            > whatever I can find on the net. I also have the "Biography" special
            on DVD.
            > I see that Barry Paris' bio is a must.
            >
            >
            >
            > (Neve Campbell certainly looks the part!)
            >
            >
            >
            > Anita M.
            >
          • Perri Lee
            In one of her bio s she was quoted as saying I love to drink and fuck she was quite the party girl. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall the
            Message 5 of 29 , Apr 30, 2007
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              In one of her bio's she was quoted as saying "I love to drink and fuck" she was quite the party girl. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall the afternoon her and Charlie Chaplin and another woman was in a hotel room all after noon and was drinking and Louise doing the Charleston..That was a story in one of the bio's . Happy reading

              Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: Anita,

              She wasn't quite the fully-fledged hellion yet when she was kicked
              off the Denishawn team, but she was well on her way. She went to New
              York with a chaperone at first, but she quickly graduated from paying
              student to paid troupe member with lots of travel involved. Barry
              Paris doesn't say much if anything about the chaperone when Louise
              was picked up as a regular. Likely she went home to Kansas soon
              thereafter. On the road, she was required to be above moral and
              social reproach, but she wasn't always. She was the subject of a lot
              of rumors and her reputation soured. She was evidently sneaking
              around to clubs and not coming back to the room until wake-up time.
              Being an incredible dancer, however, her pecadillos were overlooked
              for the most part. She toured, and starred, with the troupe for two
              seasons, getting harder and harder to manage all the time, more
              independent, more stubborn, fuller and fuller of herself. Finally,
              she came into a group meeting late and the boss gave her the heave-ho
              in front of everybody. Not so much as a word of caution is ever
              mentioned as I recalled. She just crossed the line once too many
              times and got the boot. Ruth St. Denis gave told her she was being
              dismissed because she wanted the world on a silver salver. Soon
              after that, she was dancing in Scandals and later Zeigfield, that's
              when she really started racing the party engine. Hope this helps!

              And do get the Barry Paris book, you'll love it.

              --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
              <Woodsy@...> wrote:
              >
              > She was a self-made woman, as you described. That's what makes her
              so
              > admirable to me – that she got so far starting with so little. But
              she was
              > every bit as tragic as Marilyn Monroe, IMO; she never truly
              overcame her
              > inner `demons' so she sabotaged herself and drove away anyone who
              got close
              > to her. I'd like to know the whole story of her dismissal from
              Denishawn.
              > I'd read that she drank heavily and often didn't show up for
              rehearsals.
              > Today we have help for kids with drinking/drug problems, anti-social
              > behavior, victims of abuse, etc. Unfortunately, such programs
              didn't exist
              > then.
              >
              >
              >
              > I've just joined the group, too, and have read only "Lulu in
              Hollywood" and
              > whatever I can find on the net. I also have the "Biography" special
              on DVD.
              > I see that Barry Paris' bio is a must.
              >
              >
              >
              > (Neve Campbell certainly looks the part!)
              >
              >
              >
              > Anita M.
              >






              Perri Lee Leuthard



              ---------------------------------
              Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
              Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • nutsaboutclara
              I don t think she feared success; I think she hated its intensity more than anything else. Plus, she hated, I think, the empty that accompanies success
              Message 6 of 29 , Apr 30, 2007
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                I don't think she feared success; I think she hated its intensity
                more than anything else. Plus, she hated, I think, the empty that
                accompanies success sometimes. But, that's just a thought of mine.

                -Dario.


                --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                <Woodsy@...> wrote:
                >
                > True, she pretty much said she "raised herself." There are several
                reasons
                > she didn't want to succeed, some we can guess at and some we'll
                never know.
                >
                >
                >
                > AM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                > nutsaboutclara
                > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:34 PM
                > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psycological Profile?
                >
                >
                >
                > Yes she was, Jennifer. A fascinating person, indeed. Yes, I agree
                > with you that Brooksie was a bit afraid of success, but, I think
                her
                > troubles were that both of her parents didn't give her enough
                > attention that they should have to her and her siblings. As
                Brooksie
                > herself said one time, just to paraphrase her, her parents were
                more
                > in love with each other than with their kids. They prefered that
                > their childern, or "squaling brats" fend for themselves.
                >
                > -Dario.
                >
                > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
                brooks@yahoogroups.com,
                > SMILEYJEN1@
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > She is a most fascinating creature. My own amateur opinion is
                that
                > she
                > > was afraid of success; more specifically, what would happen if she
                > > allowed herself to be happy with it. Think back to Mr Flowers. She
                > > followed a friendly face that promised her pleasant things, only
                to
                > strip
                > > her of her childhood in return. This seemed to be a prevailing
                > theme in
                > > her life - she would never be complacent again.
                > >
                > > Yes, I was a psych minor in college,
                > > Jennifer ^_^
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:56:30 -0000 nutsaboutclara
                > > <no_reply@yahoogroup <mailto:no_reply%40yahoogroups.com> s.com>
                writes:
                > > To the both of you, there has never been a psychological study on
                > > Louise Brooks, because she is virtually unknown to most film
                > > viewers, especially since most film viewers are NOT silent film
                > fans
                > > at all. It's a very tiny community, the silent film viewing
                > > community, but a very fierce and loyal bunch, to be sure. In
                fact,
                > > there are many silent film fans who know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about
                > > Brooksie, which is a bit shocking.
                > >
                > > -Dario.
                > >
                > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
                brooks@yahoogroups.com,
                > Perri Lee
                > > <cheaptrickaz@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > I don't think she was that complex. She was hot and she knew it
                > > and was a player that fully enjoyed life and refused to take
                > > negative energy off others.
                > > >
                > > > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@> wrote: Has anyone seen or
                > > know of any sort of psycological profile on Louise
                > > > Brooks? I'm in my third straight reading of Barry Paris' bio of
                > > her
                > > > and I find her to be psycologically baffling. What an
                incredibly
                > > > complex person!
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Perri Lee Leuthard
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ---------------------------------
                > > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                > > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • nutsaboutclara
                WHOOPS!!!!! I meant emptiness. Sorry, folks! -Dario. ... several ... Profile? ... she ... She ... only ... on ... about ... it ... of
                Message 7 of 29 , May 5, 2007
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                  WHOOPS!!!!! I meant "emptiness." Sorry, folks!

                  -Dario.


                  --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, nutsaboutclara
                  <no_reply@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I don't think she feared success; I think she hated its intensity
                  > more than anything else. Plus, she hated, I think, the empty that
                  > accompanies success sometimes. But, that's just a thought of mine.
                  >
                  > -Dario.
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                  > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > True, she pretty much said she "raised herself." There are
                  several
                  > reasons
                  > > she didn't want to succeed, some we can guess at and some we'll
                  > never know.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > AM
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > _____
                  > >
                  > > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                  > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  > > nutsaboutclara
                  > > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:34 PM
                  > > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psycological
                  Profile?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yes she was, Jennifer. A fascinating person, indeed. Yes, I agree
                  > > with you that Brooksie was a bit afraid of success, but, I think
                  > her
                  > > troubles were that both of her parents didn't give her enough
                  > > attention that they should have to her and her siblings. As
                  > Brooksie
                  > > herself said one time, just to paraphrase her, her parents were
                  > more
                  > > in love with each other than with their kids. They prefered that
                  > > their childern, or "squaling brats" fend for themselves.
                  > >
                  > > -Dario.
                  > >
                  > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                  > > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > brooks@yahoogroups.com,
                  > > SMILEYJEN1@
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > She is a most fascinating creature. My own amateur opinion is
                  > that
                  > > she
                  > > > was afraid of success; more specifically, what would happen if
                  she
                  > > > allowed herself to be happy with it. Think back to Mr Flowers.
                  She
                  > > > followed a friendly face that promised her pleasant things,
                  only
                  > to
                  > > strip
                  > > > her of her childhood in return. This seemed to be a prevailing
                  > > theme in
                  > > > her life - she would never be complacent again.
                  > > >
                  > > > Yes, I was a psych minor in college,
                  > > > Jennifer ^_^
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:56:30 -0000 nutsaboutclara
                  > > > <no_reply@yahoogroup <mailto:no_reply%40yahoogroups.com> s.com>
                  > writes:
                  > > > To the both of you, there has never been a psychological study
                  on
                  > > > Louise Brooks, because she is virtually unknown to most film
                  > > > viewers, especially since most film viewers are NOT silent film
                  > > fans
                  > > > at all. It's a very tiny community, the silent film viewing
                  > > > community, but a very fierce and loyal bunch, to be sure. In
                  > fact,
                  > > > there are many silent film fans who know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
                  about
                  > > > Brooksie, which is a bit shocking.
                  > > >
                  > > > -Dario.
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                  > > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > brooks@yahoogroups.com,
                  > > Perri Lee
                  > > > <cheaptrickaz@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I don't think she was that complex. She was hot and she knew
                  it
                  > > > and was a player that fully enjoyed life and refused to take
                  > > > negative energy off others.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@> wrote: Has anyone seen or
                  > > > know of any sort of psycological profile on Louise
                  > > > > Brooks? I'm in my third straight reading of Barry Paris' bio
                  of
                  > > > her
                  > > > > and I find her to be psycologically baffling. What an
                  > incredibly
                  > > > > complex person!
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Perri Lee Leuthard
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ---------------------------------
                  > > > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                  > > > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                • olive_e_thomas
                  The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her book club Louise would likely
                  Message 8 of 29 , May 5, 2007
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                    The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                    personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                    book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                    success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                  • Anita M
                    I can understand that, and I wouldn’t blame her, either. Anita M. Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult that you do. -
                    Message 9 of 29 , May 6, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I can understand that, and I wouldn’t blame her, either.



                      Anita M.



                      "Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult
                      that you do." - Elizabeth Goudge

                      _____

                      From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                      olive_e_thomas
                      Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 10:27 PM
                      To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



                      The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                      personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                      book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                      success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Anita M
                      No worries; we know what you meant ;-) Anita M. Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult that you do. - Elizabeth Goudge
                      Message 10 of 29 , May 6, 2007
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                        No worries; we know what you meant ;-)



                        Anita M.



                        "Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult
                        that you do." - Elizabeth Goudge

                        _____

                        From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        nutsaboutclara
                        Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:38 AM
                        To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



                        WHOOPS!!!!! I meant "emptiness." Sorry, folks!

                        -Dario.

                        --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                        <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com,
                        nutsaboutclara
                        <no_reply@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I don't think she feared success; I think she hated its intensity
                        > more than anything else. Plus, she hated, I think, the empty that
                        > accompanies success sometimes. But, that's just a thought of mine.
                        >
                        > -Dario.
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                        <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com,
                        "Anita M"
                        > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > True, she pretty much said she "raised herself." There are
                        several
                        > reasons
                        > > she didn't want to succeed, some we can guess at and some we'll
                        > never know.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > AM
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > _____
                        > >
                        > > From: thenewcovenoflouise
                        <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com
                        > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouise
                        <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of
                        > > nutsaboutclara
                        > > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:34 PM
                        > > To: thenewcovenoflouise
                        <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psycological
                        Profile?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Yes she was, Jennifer. A fascinating person, indeed. Yes, I agree
                        > > with you that Brooksie was a bit afraid of success, but, I think
                        > her
                        > > troubles were that both of her parents didn't give her enough
                        > > attention that they should have to her and her siblings. As
                        > Brooksie
                        > > herself said one time, just to paraphrase her, her parents were
                        > more
                        > > in love with each other than with their kids. They prefered that
                        > > their childern, or "squaling brats" fend for themselves.
                        > >
                        > > -Dario.
                        > >
                        > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                        > > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > brooks@yahoogroups. <mailto:brooks%40yahoogroups.com> com,
                        > > SMILEYJEN1@
                        > > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > She is a most fascinating creature. My own amateur opinion is
                        > that
                        > > she
                        > > > was afraid of success; more specifically, what would happen if
                        she
                        > > > allowed herself to be happy with it. Think back to Mr Flowers.
                        She
                        > > > followed a friendly face that promised her pleasant things,
                        only
                        > to
                        > > strip
                        > > > her of her childhood in return. This seemed to be a prevailing
                        > > theme in
                        > > > her life - she would never be complacent again.
                        > > >
                        > > > Yes, I was a psych minor in college,
                        > > > Jennifer ^_^
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:56:30 -0000 nutsaboutclara
                        > > > <no_reply@yahoogroup <mailto:no_reply%40yahoogroups.com> s.com>
                        > writes:
                        > > > To the both of you, there has never been a psychological study
                        on
                        > > > Louise Brooks, because she is virtually unknown to most film
                        > > > viewers, especially since most film viewers are NOT silent film
                        > > fans
                        > > > at all. It's a very tiny community, the silent film viewing
                        > > > community, but a very fierce and loyal bunch, to be sure. In
                        > fact,
                        > > > there are many silent film fans who know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
                        about
                        > > > Brooksie, which is a bit shocking.
                        > > >
                        > > > -Dario.
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                        > > <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > brooks@yahoogroups. <mailto:brooks%40yahoogroups.com> com,
                        > > Perri Lee
                        > > > <cheaptrickaz@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I don't think she was that complex. She was hot and she knew
                        it
                        > > > and was a player that fully enjoyed life and refused to take
                        > > > negative energy off others.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@> wrote: Has anyone seen or
                        > > > know of any sort of psycological profile on Louise
                        > > > > Brooks? I'm in my third straight reading of Barry Paris' bio
                        of
                        > > > her
                        > > > > and I find her to be psycologically baffling. What an
                        > incredibly
                        > > > > complex person!
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Perri Lee Leuthard
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ---------------------------------
                        > > > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                        > > > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Chuck Golden
                        I think you ve hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality. All through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it s evident that she had to be in
                        Message 11 of 29 , May 6, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I think you've hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality. All
                          through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident that
                          she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but in
                          control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster piece "The
                          Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to the
                          top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                          from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without her
                          knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                          ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite the
                          increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                          excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                          involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                          wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation where
                          she couldn't be 100% in control of it.

                          Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out there?
                          Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls far
                          from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something as
                          simple as that.


                          --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                          <no_reply@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                          > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                          > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                          > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                          >
                        • Perri Lee
                          I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not want to publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the escapades she was
                          Message 12 of 29 , May 6, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not want to publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the escapades she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed with the twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee

                            Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: I think you've hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality. All
                            through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident that
                            she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but in
                            control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster piece "The
                            Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to the
                            top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                            from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without her
                            knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                            ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite the
                            increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                            excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                            involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                            wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation where
                            she couldn't be 100% in control of it.

                            Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out there?
                            Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls far
                            from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something as
                            simple as that.

                            --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                            <no_reply@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                            > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                            > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                            > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                            >






                            Perri Lee Leuthard



                            ---------------------------------
                            Don't pick lemons.
                            See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Anita M
                            I m not sure that public knowledge of her escapades would have bothered her. She never appeared to be embarrassed about anything she did, nor cared what anyone
                            Message 13 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I'm not sure that public knowledge of her escapades would have bothered her.
                              She never appeared to be embarrassed about anything she did, nor cared what
                              anyone else thought of her. I think it was a 100% control issue.



                              Anita M.

                              _____

                              From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                              [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Perri Lee
                              Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 1:35 PM
                              To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



                              I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not want to
                              publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the escapades
                              she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed with the
                              twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee

                              Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@yahoo. <mailto:bagnoli2%40yahoo.com> com> wrote: I
                              think you've hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality. All through
                              the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident that she had to be
                              in control - not so much in control of the people but in control of the
                              situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster piece "The Girl in the Black
                              Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to the top of the public
                              consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word from him that he'd been out
                              on the West Coast discussing (without her knowing it) a bio-pic with a major
                              Hollywood director. She went ballistic, refused any thought of letting the
                              film be done (despite the increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off
                              forever. She excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project
                              that involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                              wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation where she
                              couldn't be 100% in control of it.

                              Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out there?
                              Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls far from
                              the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something as simple as
                              that.

                              --- In thenewcovenoflouise
                              <mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks%40yahoogroups.com> brooks@yahoogroups.com,
                              olive_e_thomas
                              <no_reply@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of personal
                              control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her book club Louise
                              would likely refuse on the grounds any success would "belong" to Oprah and
                              not to her...
                              >

                              Perri Lee Leuthard

                              ---------------------------------
                              Don't pick lemons.
                              See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Chuck Golden
                              Perri Lee, She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn t publish her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the sexual
                              Message 14 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Perri Lee,

                                She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't publish
                                her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                                sexual beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                                potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted to her priest
                                in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she wanted a drink
                                and when she read about sex she got excited. So she opted not to
                                publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable young women.
                                On the one hand, she wouldn't renounce her lifestyle (standing toe-to-
                                toe with her priest), on the other hand she was concerned about
                                having young girls see her habits and lifestyle as desirable and
                                exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant contradictions of
                                Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a proof
                                of her brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
                                being anything but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.

                                I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs of
                                her region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                                was mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                                attended a Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough
                                to evidently have a fling with an older man in the church before
                                moving to Manhatten), and for ten years as a Catholic between 1954
                                and 1964 in New York. I certainly don't see either of them as being
                                twisted in either location. Except for the Catholic period, I think
                                Louise's attitude towards religion was ambivalence rather than
                                antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring that she left the
                                Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of note in her
                                little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she
                                had a statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                                religious beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that
                                opinion.

                                Cheers!


                                --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, Perri Lee
                                <cheaptrickaz@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not
                                want to publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all
                                the escapades she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was
                                also mixed with the twisted religious beliefs of her region and her
                                day. Perri Lee
                                >
                                > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: I think you've hit on
                                one of THE major aspects of her personality. All
                                > through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident
                                that
                                > she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but
                                in
                                > control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster
                                piece "The
                                > Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to
                                the
                                > top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                                > from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without
                                her
                                > knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                                > ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite
                                the
                                > increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                                > excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                                > involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                                > wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation
                                where
                                > she couldn't be 100% in control of it.
                                >
                                > Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out
                                there?
                                > Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls
                                far
                                > from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something
                                as
                                > simple as that.
                                >
                                > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                                > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                                > > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                                > > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                                > > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Perri Lee Leuthard
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ---------------------------------
                                > Don't pick lemons.
                                > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • Perri Lee
                                I still beleive that the reason she did not publish was some how tied to the twisted religious moral thing. It is why I feel she did not write and it still is
                                Message 15 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I still beleive that the reason she did not publish was some how tied to the twisted religious moral thing. It is why I feel she did not write and it still is the same thing and reason why people and persons hold themselves back today. But of course this is getting to be too large of a subject for this group. thanks

                                  Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: Perri Lee,

                                  She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't publish
                                  her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                                  sexual beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                                  potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted to her priest
                                  in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she wanted a drink
                                  and when she read about sex she got excited. So she opted not to
                                  publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable young women.
                                  On the one hand, she wouldn't renounce her lifestyle (standing toe-to-
                                  toe with her priest), on the other hand she was concerned about
                                  having young girls see her habits and lifestyle as desirable and
                                  exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant contradictions of
                                  Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a proof
                                  of her brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
                                  being anything but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.

                                  I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs of
                                  her region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                                  was mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                                  attended a Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough
                                  to evidently have a fling with an older man in the church before
                                  moving to Manhatten), and for ten years as a Catholic between 1954
                                  and 1964 in New York. I certainly don't see either of them as being
                                  twisted in either location. Except for the Catholic period, I think
                                  Louise's attitude towards religion was ambivalence rather than
                                  antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring that she left the
                                  Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of note in her
                                  little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she
                                  had a statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                                  religious beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that
                                  opinion.

                                  Cheers!

                                  --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, Perri Lee
                                  <cheaptrickaz@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not
                                  want to publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all
                                  the escapades she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was
                                  also mixed with the twisted religious beliefs of her region and her
                                  day. Perri Lee
                                  >
                                  > Chuck Golden <bagnoli2@...> wrote: I think you've hit on
                                  one of THE major aspects of her personality. All
                                  > through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident
                                  that
                                  > she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but
                                  in
                                  > control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster
                                  piece "The
                                  > Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to
                                  the
                                  > top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                                  > from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without
                                  her
                                  > knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                                  > ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite
                                  the
                                  > increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                                  > excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                                  > involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                                  > wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation
                                  where
                                  > she couldn't be 100% in control of it.
                                  >
                                  > Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out
                                  there?
                                  > Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls
                                  far
                                  > from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something
                                  as
                                  > simple as that.
                                  >
                                  > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                                  > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                                  > > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                                  > > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                                  > > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Perri Lee Leuthard
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ---------------------------------
                                  > Don't pick lemons.
                                  > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >






                                  Perri Lee Leuthard



                                  ---------------------------------
                                  Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                                  Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Anita M
                                  IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect to underage girls, who (judging from my own experience) are impressionable and most likely to
                                  Message 16 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect to underage
                                    girls, who (judging from my own experience) are impressionable and most
                                    likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my life, illegal
                                    drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew people who bought
                                    into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her adventures
                                    and saying at the end “don’t do what I did,” (which seldom carries any
                                    weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.



                                    Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day “spilling
                                    the sexual beans” could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If you ever
                                    have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which celebrities are
                                    doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you want to see
                                    them or not.)



                                    Anita M.



                                    _____

                                    From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                    [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                                    Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                                    To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological Profile?



                                    Perri Lee,

                                    She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't publish her
                                    biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the sexual
                                    beans and that she had concerns about what this could potentially do to
                                    influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s that when
                                    she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she read about sex she
                                    got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for
                                    impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't renounce her
                                    lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other hand she was
                                    concerned about having young girls see her habits and lifestyle as desirable
                                    and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant contradictions of
                                    Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a proof of her
                                    brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on being anything
                                    but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.

                                    I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs of her
                                    region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion was
                                    mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she attended a
                                    Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to evidently have
                                    a fling with an older man in the church before moving to Manhatten), and for
                                    ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I certainly don't
                                    see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except for the
                                    Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was ambivalence
                                    rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring that she left
                                    the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of note in her
                                    little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she had a
                                    statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the religious
                                    beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.

                                    Cheers!

                                    >
                                    > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not want to
                                    publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the escapades
                                    she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed with the
                                    twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • nutsaboutclara
                                    That s quite true, Olive. Brooksie always wanted to control the situation, so that she could be the center of attention. It was that way at home, when she
                                    Message 17 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      That's quite true, Olive. Brooksie always wanted to control the
                                      situation, so that she could be the center of attention. It was that
                                      way at home, when she and her mother bickered, and it continued well
                                      into adulthood. She was her own marching band, which turned a lot of
                                      people off, that's for sure.

                                      -Dario.


                                      --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                                      <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                                      > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                                      > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                                      > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                                      >
                                    • nutsaboutclara
                                      She was a very willful person, Chuck; it was her way and nothing else. Clara Bow was like that to an extent, but she was outgoing and cheerful towards all
                                      Message 18 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        She was a very willful person, Chuck; it was her way and nothing
                                        else. Clara Bow was like that to an extent, but she was outgoing and
                                        cheerful towards all that met Clara. But Brooksie was moody,
                                        taciturn at times, and an intelectual snob, who thought that she was
                                        above everyone when it came film(film history, film making, actors &
                                        actresses, etc.), literature, politics, sex, male/female
                                        relationships, etc. And, very opinionated. But, I love her for it,
                                        because she would be who she was if she wasn't that in the first
                                        place. I marvel at her strong sense of independence. That made her
                                        stand out more than her contemporaries.

                                        -Dario.



                                        --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Golden"
                                        <bagnoli2@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I think you've hit on one of THE major aspects of her personality.
                                        All
                                        > through the Paris bio, especially towards the end, it's evident
                                        that
                                        > she had to be in control - not so much in control of the people but
                                        in
                                        > control of the situation. Ken Tynan wrote the blockbuster
                                        piece "The
                                        > Girl in the Black Helmet" for the New Yorker which shot her back to
                                        the
                                        > top of the public consciousness. Not long afterwards, she got word
                                        > from him that he'd been out on the West Coast discussing (without
                                        her
                                        > knowing it) a bio-pic with a major Hollywood director. She went
                                        > ballistic, refused any thought of letting the film be done (despite
                                        the
                                        > increased fame and money), and cut Ken Tynan off forever. She
                                        > excoriated him for having the temerity of discussing a project that
                                        > involved her behind her back. The evident botton line is that she
                                        > wouldn't agree to putting herself and her story in a situation
                                        where
                                        > she couldn't be 100% in control of it.
                                        >
                                        > Now, as to why she was so much that way... any psycologists out
                                        there?
                                        > Certainly, she was her mother's daughter and the apple seldom falls
                                        far
                                        > from the tree. But she was far too complex for it to be something
                                        as
                                        > simple as that.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                                        > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > The way I look at it she was more concerned about the loss of
                                        > > personal control. Like if Oprah had tried to put her book in her
                                        > > book club Louise would likely refuse on the grounds any
                                        > > success would "belong" to Oprah and not to her...
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • olive_e_thomas
                                        I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of child-care in that respect). My guess is
                                        Message 19 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                                          children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                                          child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                                          ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed little
                                          brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                                          selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and it
                                          was easier to torch than try and rewrite...

                                          It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of one
                                          whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                                          went.

                                          But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                                          words that just don't seem to go together...

                                          --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                                          <Woodsy@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect
                                          to underage
                                          > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                                          impressionable and most
                                          > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my life,
                                          illegal
                                          > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                                          people who bought
                                          > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                                          adventures
                                          > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                                          carries any
                                          > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day
                                          "spilling
                                          > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If
                                          you ever
                                          > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                                          celebrities are
                                          > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                                          want to see
                                          > them or not.)
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Anita M.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > _____
                                          >
                                          > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                          > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                                          Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                                          > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                                          > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                                          Profile?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Perri Lee,
                                          >
                                          > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                                          publish her
                                          > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                                          sexual
                                          > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                                          potentially do to
                                          > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s
                                          that when
                                          > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                                          read about sex she
                                          > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                                          concern for
                                          > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                                          renounce her
                                          > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other hand
                                          she was
                                          > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                                          lifestyle as desirable
                                          > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                                          contradictions of
                                          > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                                          proof of her
                                          > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on being
                                          anything
                                          > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                                          >
                                          > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs
                                          of her
                                          > region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                                          was
                                          > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                                          attended a
                                          > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                                          evidently have
                                          > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                                          Manhatten), and for
                                          > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                                          certainly don't
                                          > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                                          for the
                                          > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was
                                          ambivalence
                                          > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                                          that she left
                                          > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                                          note in her
                                          > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think she
                                          had a
                                          > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                                          religious
                                          > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                                          >
                                          > Cheers!
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did not
                                          want to
                                          > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the
                                          escapades
                                          > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed
                                          with the
                                          > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                        • nutsaboutclara
                                          HEAR, HEAR!!! Discriminatory would probably be a better word for what Brooksie was all about, in respect to people, art, literature, etc. You hit the nail on
                                          Message 20 of 29 , May 9, 2007
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                                            HEAR, HEAR!!! Discriminatory would probably be a better word for
                                            what Brooksie was all about, in respect to people, art, literature,
                                            etc. You hit the nail on the head perfectly, Olive. Kudos!

                                            -Dario.


                                            --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                                            <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                                            > children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                                            > child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                                            > ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed
                                            little
                                            > brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                                            > selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and
                                            it
                                            > was easier to torch than try and rewrite...
                                            >
                                            > It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of
                                            one
                                            > whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                                            > went.
                                            >
                                            > But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                                            > words that just don't seem to go together...
                                            >
                                            > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                                            > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect
                                            > to underage
                                            > > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                                            > impressionable and most
                                            > > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my
                                            life,
                                            > illegal
                                            > > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                                            > people who bought
                                            > > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                                            > adventures
                                            > > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                                            > carries any
                                            > > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day
                                            > "spilling
                                            > > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If
                                            > you ever
                                            > > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                                            > celebrities are
                                            > > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                                            > want to see
                                            > > them or not.)
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Anita M.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > _____
                                            > >
                                            > > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                                            > Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                                            > > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                                            > > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                                            > Profile?
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Perri Lee,
                                            > >
                                            > > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                                            > publish her
                                            > > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                                            > sexual
                                            > > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                                            > potentially do to
                                            > > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s
                                            > that when
                                            > > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                                            > read about sex she
                                            > > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                                            > concern for
                                            > > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                                            > renounce her
                                            > > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other
                                            hand
                                            > she was
                                            > > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                                            > lifestyle as desirable
                                            > > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                                            > contradictions of
                                            > > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                                            > proof of her
                                            > > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
                                            being
                                            > anything
                                            > > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                                            > >
                                            > > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs
                                            > of her
                                            > > region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                                            > was
                                            > > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                                            > attended a
                                            > > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                                            > evidently have
                                            > > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                                            > Manhatten), and for
                                            > > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                                            > certainly don't
                                            > > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                                            > for the
                                            > > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was
                                            > ambivalence
                                            > > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                                            > that she left
                                            > > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                                            > note in her
                                            > > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think
                                            she
                                            > had a
                                            > > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                                            > religious
                                            > > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                                            > >
                                            > > Cheers!
                                            > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did
                                            not
                                            > want to
                                            > > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the
                                            > escapades
                                            > > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed
                                            > with the
                                            > > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • Anita M.
                                            Now I m confused. Chuck said She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn t publish her biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling
                                            Message 21 of 29 , May 9, 2007
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                                              Now I'm confused.

                                              Chuck said "She said several times that one of the reasons she
                                              wouldn't publish her biography was that to do it properly would mean
                                              spilling all the sexual beans and that she had concerns about what
                                              this could potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted to
                                              her priest in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she
                                              wanted a drink and when she read about sex she got excited. So she
                                              opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable
                                              young women."

                                              But then, some people say one thing one day and the opposite another
                                              day - maybe a way to hold onto a little privacy.

                                              Anita M.


                                              --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                                              <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                                              > children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                                              > child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                                              > ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed
                                              little
                                              > brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                                              > selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and it
                                              > was easier to torch than try and rewrite...
                                              >
                                              > It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of
                                              one
                                              > whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                                              > went.
                                              >
                                              > But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                                              > words that just don't seem to go together...
                                              >
                                              > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                                              > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in respect
                                              > to underage
                                              > > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                                              > impressionable and most
                                              > > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my
                                              life,
                                              > illegal
                                              > > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                                              > people who bought
                                              > > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                                              > adventures
                                              > > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                                              > carries any
                                              > > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her day
                                              > "spilling
                                              > > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it. (If
                                              > you ever
                                              > > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                                              > celebrities are
                                              > > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                                              > want to see
                                              > > them or not.)
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Anita M.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > _____
                                              > >
                                              > > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                                              > Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                                              > > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                                              > > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                                              > Profile?
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Perri Lee,
                                              > >
                                              > > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                                              > publish her
                                              > > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all the
                                              > sexual
                                              > > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                                              > potentially do to
                                              > > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-50s
                                              > that when
                                              > > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                                              > read about sex she
                                              > > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                                              > concern for
                                              > > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                                              > renounce her
                                              > > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other
                                              hand
                                              > she was
                                              > > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                                              > lifestyle as desirable
                                              > > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                                              > contradictions of
                                              > > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                                              > proof of her
                                              > > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on being
                                              > anything
                                              > > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                                              > >
                                              > > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions beliefs
                                              > of her
                                              > > region and her day". The only periods in her life where religion
                                              > was
                                              > > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                                              > attended a
                                              > > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                                              > evidently have
                                              > > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                                              > Manhatten), and for
                                              > > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                                              > certainly don't
                                              > > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                                              > for the
                                              > > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion was
                                              > ambivalence
                                              > > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                                              > that she left
                                              > > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                                              > note in her
                                              > > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think
                                              she
                                              > had a
                                              > > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                                              > religious
                                              > > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                                              > >
                                              > > Cheers!
                                              > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did
                                              not
                                              > want to
                                              > > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all the
                                              > escapades
                                              > > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also mixed
                                              > with the
                                              > > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > >
                                              >
                                            • olive_e_thomas
                                              Some clue as to her reasoning might be found in her comments after turning down Playboy magazine for a writing job all they want is (an article about) tits
                                              Message 22 of 29 , May 9, 2007
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Some clue as to her reasoning might be found in her comments
                                                after turning down Playboy magazine for a writing job "all they
                                                want is (an article about) tits and free-fucking for men."

                                                --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M."
                                                <Woodsy@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Now I'm confused.
                                                >
                                                > Chuck said "She said several times that one of the reasons
                                                she
                                                > wouldn't publish her biography was that to do it properly would
                                                mean
                                                > spilling all the sexual beans and that she had concerns about
                                                what
                                                > this could potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted
                                                to
                                                > her priest in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking
                                                she
                                                > wanted a drink and when she read about sex she got excited.
                                                So she
                                                > opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for
                                                impressionable
                                                > young women."
                                                >
                                                > But then, some people say one thing one day and the opposite
                                                another
                                                > day - maybe a way to hold onto a little privacy.
                                                >
                                                > Anita M.
                                                >
                                                >
                                              • nutsaboutclara
                                                Brooksie was trying to protect herself from what others said about her. She never did trust people whom she met and later talked trash about her. Brooksie
                                                Message 23 of 29 , May 12, 2007
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Brooksie was trying to protect herself from what others said about
                                                  her. She never did trust people whom she met and later talked trash
                                                  about her. Brooksie was one tough egg to crack, that's for sure.

                                                  -Dario.


                                                  --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M."
                                                  <Woodsy@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Now I'm confused.
                                                  >
                                                  > Chuck said "She said several times that one of the reasons she
                                                  > wouldn't publish her biography was that to do it properly would
                                                  mean
                                                  > spilling all the sexual beans and that she had concerns about what
                                                  > this could potentially do to influence young girls. She admitted
                                                  to
                                                  > her priest in the mid-50s that when she read about drinking she
                                                  > wanted a drink and when she read about sex she got excited. So she
                                                  > opted not to publish her memoirs out of concern for impressionable
                                                  > young women."
                                                  >
                                                  > But then, some people say one thing one day and the opposite
                                                  another
                                                  > day - maybe a way to hold onto a little privacy.
                                                  >
                                                  > Anita M.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, olive_e_thomas
                                                  > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I doubt that Louise had much concern for ruining the morals of
                                                  > > children (she seemed more from the WC Fields school of
                                                  > > child-care in that respect). My guess is - assuming she really
                                                  > > ever wrote a full memoir - she just didn't like the snot-nosed
                                                  > little
                                                  > > brat she came off sounding like in print and opted for a more
                                                  > > selective approach. Or the final result just looks like crap and
                                                  it
                                                  > > was easier to torch than try and rewrite...
                                                  > >
                                                  > > It could also be that she opted for little set pieces instead of
                                                  > one
                                                  > > whole go so that she could improve her writing skills as she
                                                  > > went.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > But "social responsibilty" and "Louise Brooks" are two sets of
                                                  > > words that just don't seem to go together...
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com, "Anita M"
                                                  > > <Woodsy@> wrote:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > IMO she was being socially responsible; particularly in
                                                  respect
                                                  > > to underage
                                                  > > > girls, who (judging from my own experience) are
                                                  > > impressionable and most
                                                  > > > likely to seek out those kinds of stories. At that point in my
                                                  > life,
                                                  > > illegal
                                                  > > > drug use and being an underachiever was glorified. I knew
                                                  > > people who bought
                                                  > > > into that and regretted it later. Instead of writing about her
                                                  > > adventures
                                                  > > > and saying at the end "don't do what I did," (which seldom
                                                  > > carries any
                                                  > > > weight if ever) she chose not to tell at all.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Whether it mattered to her or not Brooksie knew that in her
                                                  day
                                                  > > "spilling
                                                  > > > the sexual beans" could ruin a career; today it enhances it.
                                                  (If
                                                  > > you ever
                                                  > > > have to stand in line in a grocery store, you know which
                                                  > > celebrities are
                                                  > > > doing what because the tabloids are in plain sight whether you
                                                  > > want to see
                                                  > > > them or not.)
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Anita M.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > _____
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > From: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > [mailto:thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                  > > Behalf Of Chuck Golden
                                                  > > > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:06 AM
                                                  > > > To: thenewcovenoflouisebrooks@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > Subject: Re: [The New Coven of Louise Brooks] Psychological
                                                  > > Profile?
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Perri Lee,
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > She said several times that one of the reasons she wouldn't
                                                  > > publish her
                                                  > > > biography was that to do it properly would mean spilling all
                                                  the
                                                  > > sexual
                                                  > > > beans and that she had concerns about what this could
                                                  > > potentially do to
                                                  > > > influence young girls. She admitted to her priest in the mid-
                                                  50s
                                                  > > that when
                                                  > > > she read about drinking she wanted a drink and when she
                                                  > > read about sex she
                                                  > > > got excited. So she opted not to publish her memoirs out of
                                                  > > concern for
                                                  > > > impressionable young women. On the one hand, she wouldn't
                                                  > > renounce her
                                                  > > > lifestyle (standing toe-to-toe with her priest), on the other
                                                  > hand
                                                  > > she was
                                                  > > > concerned about having young girls see her habits and
                                                  > > lifestyle as desirable
                                                  > > > and exciting. Therein lies one of the many apparant
                                                  > > contradictions of
                                                  > > > Louise Brooks. In fact, it's not so much a contradiction as a
                                                  > > proof of her
                                                  > > > brutal, flint-like honesty. I am what I am, I don't plan on
                                                  being
                                                  > > anything
                                                  > > > but what I am, and you don't want to be what I am.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > I'm not sure what you mean about the "twisted religions
                                                  beliefs
                                                  > > of her
                                                  > > > region and her day". The only periods in her life where
                                                  religion
                                                  > > was
                                                  > > > mentioned was a very short period in her mid-teens when she
                                                  > > attended a
                                                  > > > Protestant church (in Wichita and staying just long enough to
                                                  > > evidently have
                                                  > > > a fling with an older man in the church before moving to
                                                  > > Manhatten), and for
                                                  > > > ten years as a Catholic between 1954 and 1964 in New York. I
                                                  > > certainly don't
                                                  > > > see either of them as being twisted in either location. Except
                                                  > > for the
                                                  > > > Catholic period, I think Louise's attitude towards religion
                                                  was
                                                  > > ambivalence
                                                  > > > rather than antagonism. Interestingly, despite her declaring
                                                  > > that she left
                                                  > > > the Church in 1964, when she died one of the few things of
                                                  > > note in her
                                                  > > > little apartment was a crucifix at the end of her bed. I think
                                                  > she
                                                  > > had a
                                                  > > > statue of the Virgin on her dresser as well. If she saw the
                                                  > > religious
                                                  > > > beliefs of her day as twisted she never hinted at that opinion.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Cheers!
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > I have to add one more thing to all of this. I think she did
                                                  > not
                                                  > > want to
                                                  > > > publish her own bio or let anyone else do it because of all
                                                  the
                                                  > > escapades
                                                  > > > she was involved in aka party girl. I think this was also
                                                  mixed
                                                  > > with the
                                                  > > > twisted religious beliefs of her region and her day. Perri Lee
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
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