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Re: [t93] Wicca... Oh Lord, one more time!!!!

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  • Igg
    Al- Ra-Hor-Khu(i)t appears in all egyptology books (which Ive got, at least). The older is the Plutarch book that says: Combination of two Gods, the
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 2, 2001
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      Al-

      Ra-Hor-Khu(i)t appears in all egyptology books (which Ive got, at
      least). The older is the Plutarch book that says: Combination of two Gods,
      the transalation would be 'Ra and Horus over the horizont (Harmajis)'.

      Ive been searching something about the god Harmajis: 'Horus in the
      Oriental Horizont". Guardian of the Lower World's doors; He personifies the
      rising sun, resurrection and necropolis protector, Gizah sphinx was His
      representation.

      The only "averse" comment Ive found is (casually) from a Spanish
      egyptologist who says: composite deity who appears in the Crowley's
      mitology. Both components are Ra-Horenti and Harpocrates. The name could be
      translated as "Horus and Ra be praised". However, it could be just a
      Victorian's age corruption.

      My fellow links or changes Horus by Harpocrates; my eternal asking.

      D.A.S.






      >
      > > Did you mean as opposed to Raharakhty, Re-Heru-Khuti, etc.?
      >
      > No, I mean "Ra Hoor Khut" as it says on the first verse of the Third
      > Chapter of Liber Al vel Legis, "Ra-Hoor-Khu" as in the 11th verse of the
      > same, or "Ra-Hoor-Khuit" as it says in verse 36 and 52 of the First
      > Chapter.
      >
      > > If so, isn't that like arguing over different English spellings of the
      > > Hebrew letters qoph-beth-lamed-heh? That is, whether
      > > "kabbalah," "qabalah,"
      > > "cabala" etc. is the "right" spelling?
      >
      > No because the Egyptian spelling of these names is not the same and it
      > could quite easily be argued that they are not the same as "Raharakhty"
      > as beings.
      >
      > If I recall, for example, there is no "it" sound on the end of a name
      > in actual Egyptian.
      >
      > LVX,
      > Al
      >
      >
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    • Eric O'Dell
      ... Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. You d never know if there was, Al -- until the rise of Coptic, there were no written vowels in Egyptian.
      Message 2 of 20 , Jul 2, 2001
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        On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Al Billings wrote:

        > > Did you mean as opposed to Raharakhty, Re-Heru-Khuti, etc.?
        >
        > No, I mean "Ra Hoor Khut" as it says on the first verse of the Third
        > Chapter of Liber Al vel Legis, "Ra-Hoor-Khu" as in the 11th verse of the
        > same, or "Ra-Hoor-Khuit" as it says in verse 36 and 52 of the First
        > Chapter.
        >
        > > If so, isn't that like arguing over different English spellings of the
        > > Hebrew letters qoph-beth-lamed-heh? That is, whether
        > > "kabbalah," "qabalah,"
        > > "cabala" etc. is the "right" spelling?
        >
        > No because the Egyptian spelling of these names is not the same and it
        > could quite easily be argued that they are not the same as "Raharakhty"
        > as beings.
        >
        > If I recall, for example, there is no "it" sound on the end of a name
        > in actual Egyptian.

        Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

        You'd never know if there was, Al -- until the rise of Coptic, there were
        no written vowels in Egyptian. There are plenty of instances of Egyptian
        words terminating in a 't' sound, presumably preceded by an unwritten
        vowel. Egyptologists conventionally insert 'e' as the default vowel, so
        you end up with Akhet, Nekhebet, and so on. It's actually one of the more
        *common* endings in the language.

        Seeing as the placement of the vowels in the sacred names of the gods
        would likely have been a secret reserved to the priesthood, and since
        there was no one like me around three thousand years ago to badger them
        about open content licensing, it should come as no surprise that we are
        left with only the consonantal skeletons even if they *had* written down
        their vowels.

        Love is the law, love under will.

        Regards,
        Eric
      • Eric O'Dell
        ... Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Agreed, though it is probably more accurate to call them different forms or aspects of the same being in
        Message 3 of 20 , Jul 2, 2001
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          On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Igg wrote:

          > So, IMO, Ra-Hor-Khut and Ra-Hor-Khuit are EXACTLY THE SAME BEING

          Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

          Agreed, though it is probably more accurate to call them different forms
          or aspects of the same being in much the same way that several related
          names on the Enochian watchtower tablets refer to different aspects of a
          single entity (and, arguably, all of them ultimately resolve back to IAD
          BALT.) An example from the Qabala: Ama and Aima are both forms of the
          Great Mother, separated by function and position in time.

          It is key to remember that as Briatic entities, the Gods do not suffer
          from the same limitations on position, temporality, or even identity that
          apply to the cashier down at the local convenience store. They are above
          the Abyss and play by an entirely different set of rules.

          And BTW, thank you for almost certainly being the first person to quote
          Lynyrd Skynyrd in this forum. ;-)

          Love is the law, love under will.

          Regards,
          Eric
        • mcatlett@uci.edu
          ... The Thelemic deities have more to do with what we *think of as Egyptian* than anything else. A particular deity (consciousness, attributes and personality
          Message 4 of 20 , Jul 3, 2001
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            --- In thelema93-l@y..., prophet718@m... wrote:
            > Al wrote:
            > > We could talk about the fact that the Thelemic deities, which
            > > Thelemites like to pretend are Egyptian, have nothing to do with
            > > Egypt...
            >
            > Yes, let's talk about this. The names of Nuit and Ra-Hoor-Khuit can
            > be found etched in Egyptian stonework and steles dating back
            > thousands of years. Are you contesting these facts? If not, then
            > what do you mean?


            The Thelemic deities have more to do with what we *think of as
            Egyptian* than anything else. A particular deity (consciousness,
            attributes and personality etc.) is an integral part of the culture
            in which it arose. There's no way a modern person can approach an
            understanding of the pervasiveness of that deity's presence in its
            proper time and society. You can study the Egyptian writings and
            images of Nuit - that is, the ones that have survived - and you can
            invoke her, yearn to her, etc., but what you see and experience is a
            bare and simplified fraction of what she meant to an ancient
            Egyptian, filtered through your psychology and your culture with your
            meanings superimposed.

            So it's a new Nuit. Or maybe it's the same Nuit who's changed and
            grown. In any case, if you think the Thelemic deities are the same as
            the ancient Egyptian deities of say, 4000 bp, you'd be making the
            same mistake that it's being claimed the Wiccans are making.
          • prophet718@my-deja.com
            93, ... The following excerpt indicates there is a scorpion goddess named Hededet (Hddt) who as a rule is associated with Horus of Edfu. Notice the index
            Message 5 of 20 , Jul 4, 2001
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              93,

              "Eric O'Dell" <eodell@s...> wrote:

              > The only thing that's really questionable about the Thelemic
              > 'trinity' is Hadit -- which was Crowley's (or Crowley's
              > translator's) misreading of Behutet, one of the forms of Horus.

              The following excerpt indicates there is a scorpion goddess named
              Hededet (Hddt) who as a rule is associated with Horus of Edfu. Notice
              the index number:

              93.0263

              WESSETZKY, Vilmos, Une stèle d'Horus d'Edfou et de la déesse
              Hédédet, Bulletin du Musée Hongrois des Beaux-Arts, Budapest 79
              (1993), 7-10. (fig.).

              Publication of a limestone stela in the Egyptian collection of the
              Hungarian Museum of Fine Arts (inv. no. 59.2-E). On the stela, which
              is in a very degraded state, are represented Horus wearing the double
              crown, and a partly preserved figure of the goddess Hededet (Hddt),
              who is as a rule associated with Horus of Edfu. From a description of
              the stela in its former state it is clear that the goddess wore a
              scorpion on her head. W.H. {End}

              Horus of Edfu and Horus of Behedet are one in the same. At the
              Temple of Horus at Edfu, Horus is portrayed both as a falcon with the
              double crown and the winged sun. The translator at Boulak probably
              confused the terms Hededet (Hadit) and Behedet due to their close
              association.

              Hadit does have a meaning significant to Thelema and Liber Legis as
              an Egyptian term. Hd.t is a noun meaning 'radiant one'.

              I consider Hadit (winged secret flame) and the winged sun (the Sun)
              to be microcosmic/macrocosmic reflections of each other, as
              demonstrated through gematria:

              HORUS OF EDFU = 1717 (Star-key gematria)
              HAD = 17

              718
            • prophet718@my-deja.com
              ... Ignore the gematria, it has an error. 718
              Message 6 of 20 , Jul 4, 2001
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                > I consider Hadit (winged secret flame) and the winged sun (the Sun)
                > to be microcosmic/macrocosmic reflections of each other, as
                > demonstrated through gematria:
                >
                > HORUS OF EDFU = 1717 (Star-key gematria)
                > HAD = 17

                Ignore the gematria, it has an error.

                718
              • tiamat_93@yahoo.com
                ... Notice ... which ... double ... of ... Gematria error or not, I like the post. I wonder how many others are having thoughts of a making a scorpion crown
                Message 7 of 20 , Jul 4, 2001
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                  --- In thelema93-l@y..., prophet718@m... wrote:

                  > The following excerpt indicates there is a scorpion goddess named
                  > Hededet (Hddt) who as a rule is associated with Horus of Edfu.
                  Notice
                  > the index number:
                  >
                  > 93.0263
                  >
                  > WESSETZKY, Vilmos, Une stèle d'Horus d'Edfou et de la déesse
                  > Hédédet, Bulletin du Musée Hongrois des Beaux-Arts, Budapest 79
                  > (1993), 7-10. (fig.).
                  >
                  > Publication of a limestone stela in the Egyptian collection of the
                  > Hungarian Museum of Fine Arts (inv. no. 59.2-E). On the stela,
                  which
                  > is in a very degraded state, are represented Horus wearing the
                  double
                  > crown, and a partly preserved figure of the goddess Hededet (Hddt),
                  > who is as a rule associated with Horus of Edfu. From a description
                  of
                  > the stela in its former state it is clear that the goddess wore a
                  > scorpion on her head. W.H. {End}
                  >
                  Gematria error or not, I like the post. I wonder how many others are
                  having thoughts of a making a scorpion crown now to see what happens
                  and they can cook up. <G>

                  :-)

                  Love,
                  Star
                • Eric O'Dell
                  ... [snip] ... Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. That would make sense, and the scorpion association would seem especially appropriate to Hadit,
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jul 4, 2001
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                    On Wed, 4 Jul 2001 prophet718@... wrote:

                    > The following excerpt indicates there is a scorpion goddess named
                    > Hededet (Hddt) who as a rule is associated with Horus of Edfu. Notice
                    > the index number:

                    [snip]

                    > Horus of Edfu and Horus of Behedet are one in the same. At the
                    > Temple of Horus at Edfu, Horus is portrayed both as a falcon with the
                    > double crown and the winged sun. The translator at Boulak probably
                    > confused the terms Hededet (Hadit) and Behedet due to their close
                    > association.
                    >
                    > Hadit does have a meaning significant to Thelema and Liber Legis as
                    > an Egyptian term. Hd.t is a noun meaning 'radiant one'.

                    Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

                    That would make sense, and the scorpion association would seem especially
                    appropriate to Hadit, since the sting of the scorpion is symbolically a
                    point, as Hadit is the primal point.

                    Love is the law, love under will.

                    Regards,
                    Eric
                  • prophet718@my-deja.com
                    ... Based on historical and mythological studies these facts are true, but in this modern era, cultural divides are rapidly becoming blurred. There seems to
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jul 5, 2001
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                      --- In thelema93-l@y..., mcatlett@u... wrote:

                      >
                      > The Thelemic deities have more to do with what we *think of as
                      > Egyptian* than anything else. A particular deity (consciousness,
                      > attributes and personality etc.) is an integral part of the culture
                      > in which it arose.

                      Based on historical and mythological studies these facts are true,
                      but in this modern era, cultural divides are rapidly becoming
                      blurred. There seems to be little cultural distinction involved when
                      what appears to be an ancient Egyptian god employs a discarnate
                      Sumerian to oversee the dictation of a set of divine laws to a
                      chosen prophet who happens to be a victorian Englishman.


                      > There's no way a modern person can approach an
                      > understanding of the pervasiveness of that deity's presence in its
                      > proper time and society. You can study the Egyptian writings and
                      > images of Nuit - that is, the ones that have survived - and you can
                      > invoke her, yearn to her, etc., but what you see and experience is
                      > a bare and simplified fraction of what she meant to an ancient
                      > Egyptian, filtered through your psychology and your culture with
                      > your meanings superimposed.

                      I can't see how my interpretation of Nuit can be filtered through a
                      psyche that has no knowledge of her, as was my case before I read
                      Liber Legis. The study of mythology related to the Egyptian deities
                      is interesting and possibly insightful in light of Liber Legis,
                      however, given the cross-cultural targeting (the Law is for all) of
                      its directives, I'm convinced there is more to ancient god-symbols
                      than either the ancients knew or modern advocates understand. It is
                      the Great Secret which is being revealed.

                      >
                      > So it's a new Nuit. Or maybe it's the same Nuit who's changed and
                      > grown. In any case, if you think the Thelemic deities are the same
                      as
                      > the ancient Egyptian deities of say, 4000 bp, you'd be making the
                      > same mistake that it's being claimed the Wiccans are making.

                      But I can stand in wonder and awe of the Stars just as the ancients
                      did. Why would I want to wallow in their mythology when I can simply
                      create my own? The cosmos have changed little as far as its
                      relationship with humans is concerned. The constants remain constant,
                      meaning our symbols for them and interpretation of them has changed.

                      Prophet 718
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