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RE: [t93] Re: Revolution, Bloody Revolution

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  • Alexander Duncan
    The courts, in response to a conflict. ... From: brotherzero@hotmail.com [mailto:brotherzero@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 8:12 PM To:
    Message 1 of 47 , Sep 30, 2000
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      The courts, in response to a conflict.
      -----Original Message-----
      From: brotherzero@... [mailto:brotherzero@...]
      Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 8:12 PM
      To: thelema93-l@egroups.com
      Subject: [t93] Re: Revolution, Bloody Revolution



      > Thelema advocates a state limited in its power to the protection of
      the
      > liberty of the individual, but absolute with those limits: "Man has
      the
      > right to kill those who would thwart these rights" (Liber Oz).

      -------------------------------------------------------------------


      This is one of Aleister Crowleys biggest errors.

      So who would decide when rights had been thwarted?

      Incredible that any grown up could allow himself or herself to be
      associated with this line.


      42

      Z


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    • nigris
      50001005 Vom ... anarchists repudiate one another s reactions all the time. ... and to make it sustainable. this will inevitably mean restriction on rapacious
      Message 47 of 47 , Oct 5, 2000
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        50001005 Vom

        >> I disagree that anarchism comes closest to the Law of Thelema. Towards the
        >> end of his life, Aleister Crowley repudiated the reaction of a well-known
        >> British anarchist to the Law of Thelema, which was, "to hell with all laws!"

        anarchists repudiate one another's reactions all the time.

        > Anarchism is not chaos or lawlessness, necessarily. Political
        > Anarchism certainly isn't. Like you have stated below, the ideal
        > existence of the state should be to maintain individual liberty.

        and to make it sustainable. this will inevitably mean restriction on
        rapacious and imperialist domination and exploitation, and may
        therefore require some good size government to heel the corporations
        which are now destroying the biosphere at the behest of the
        ignorantly multiplying hordes of humans and their waste products.

        > That IS Anarchism. Ultimately the ideal state ocurs when it is no
        > longer necessary to exist,

        I don't know why this need be the case. maximization of liberty does
        not mean any particular individual would have the power to destroy
        what we all create. there is a logical limit to human freedom which
        is provided to all citizens.

        > but until then Anarchism as a political
        > movement is concerned with the removal of oppresive governments and
        > the establishment of true (dynamic) equality.

        with Bakunin, Kropotkin, Warren, and many others, the Thelemic Law
        extends to political fields. one may find the Law in many seemingly
        unrelated societal venues. studying subjects like Dada in art,
        some forms of Anabaptism and Quakerism in religious practice,
        Zen Buddhism in mystical philosophy, and Chaos Magick can yield
        valuable insight into the nature and nurture of the Law in one's life.

        the natural flourishing of the Law of Thelema in life is an
        increasingly compassionate and inclusive liberative impulse. first
        one may focus most intensely upon personal liberation. having achieved
        some degree of success in this, one may then feel moved to extend a
        compassionate arm of support to one's fellow humans. this is the role
        of the political and economic anarchist, the human rights worker,
        the liberator of the oppressed. such nurturing activities may bring
        a further expansion of a conception of the Law's application: to all
        species of living beings. this may lead to what is today known as
        ecological anarchism, exemplified by authors such as Bookchin. this
        encompasses all manner of volition, extending the presumption of
        who deserves such rights guaranteed by documents like "Liber Oz" to
        a myriad life forms. resolving obvious carnivorous comestible disputes
        is the least of the problems facing a human species without the
        wisdom or intelligence to engage or encourage restraint in consumption
        or reproduction.

        >> Thelema is closest to Tibetan lamaism, which entrusts the administration
        >> of the state to those who have extinguished themselves, in the service
        >> of a traditional spirituality which emphasizes individual seeking and
        >> emancipation. Which is not to say that Thelema is doctrinally Buddhist!

        without intellectual agreement as to what constitutes "extinguishment",
        this system is unworkable and subject to too many abuses. while the
        Platonic Republic may have appealed to writers like Crowley, his British
        upbringing and preferences for Blavatskyian elitism run contrary to any
        truly egalitarian social schemes such as anarchosyndicalism.

        the question then becomes whether Crowley's vision and values are what
        drive and constitute "Thelema". I think we are best to give up any
        fixation on figureheads or heralds and focus most strongly on the liberty
        and compassion which Thelema and Agape represent to us, even if this means
        tossing Crowley out whole-cloth. time for Thelema to outgrow the Beast.

        > I disgree, Thelema is not a religion of reincarnation... yet.

        it always has had an internal struggle between Indian Theosophical,
        quasi-Buddhist, and European Christian cosmological notions. post-
        mortem fantasies do seem to predominate, though whether some return
        to fleshform is favoured appears to vary with the Thelemic votary.

        I prefer to use the method of science, and accept as axiomatic only
        that of which I can be relatively sure -- this one life is important
        to me, and I would make of it the most I am able. having repeatedly
        examined the fancy of 'the soul' in myself and others I have come
        to the tentative conclusion that the soul is an intellectual phantasm,
        a misunderstanding of subjective experience and its transitory nature.
        wishing for immortality, immutability, permanence, we are wont to
        believe in our special participation in it, woefully ignorant of the
        pure perfection of fluctuating and fleeting phenomena and their
        dynamic principle of FUCK.

        blessed beast!
        ______________________________________________________________________________
        ((333) nigris) nagasiva@... - http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html
        NOTICE: I filter out a good bit of what is posted here, possibly
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