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WAR

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  • thesonofthebeast
    We need to gather as many Thelemites as we possibly can. Everybody knows our Solar King God Ra-Hoor-Khuit is all based on War and Vengeance so what are we
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 19, 2011
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      We need to gather as many Thelemites as we possibly can. Everybody knows our Solar King God Ra-Hoor-Khuit is all based on War and Vengeance so what are we doing scattered all over the place. We need a place to gather and discuss all of our battle plants.
      When you're a Thelemite you always tend to stay stuck in this Apocalyptic Battle against Evil Tyrannic Religions killing people trying to force them to pray and bow down unto their God, I will have none of this! We must fight back and gather our soldiers somewhere we can be safe and free from Evil and Persecution. We have to fight Power that's holding us back.
      We have to get together and discuss our Battle Plans against these evil parasites. It's about time somebody made a fort to gather all of our soldiers, it's a crazy fucked up world out there and there's no safe place for Thelemites to hide.
      This is exaclty why I've erected www.Volukur.com, a mecca for all Thelemties of all kinds to gather and keep ourselves safe from any outside harm with Magick to Empower, Enchant and Protect us from any harm that may come our way. So join me, join me in my Battle against these Tyrannic Religions to try and Battle them all away until we arrive in a New World of Truth and Freedom!

      The main chat room is Volukur General Chat where we can gather to simply meet each other and discuss our plans.

      Here are part of my plans:
      http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/research-teams.html

      http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/manifesto.html

      We're going to really need that much power if we're going to succeed, it's pretty much just a way to get you to think the necessary way to think when you're in a War. It's just get your momentum to start planning and building on what we're going to do. I feel like there are certain Religious factions at the moment getting ready to try and attack us, so it's really important that we plan, plan, plan and devise our methods of defense!

      Here is the link to my Blog:

      http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/most-important-blog-93-posts.html
    • Dale R. Gowin
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Peace. Chill out, dude. It would be a serious mistake to confuse metaphor for literal truth. Liber AL, Ch. 3:
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 28, 2011
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        Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.


        Peace.


        Chill out, dude. It would be a serious mistake to confuse metaphor for literal truth.


        Liber AL, Ch. 3:
        63. 
        The fool readeth this Book of the Law, and its
        comment; & he understandeth it not.
        64. 
        Let him come through the first ordeal, & it
        will be to him as silver.
        65. 
        Through the second, gold.
        66. 
        Through the third, stones of precious water.
        67. 
        Through the fourth, ultimate sparks of the intimate
        fire.

        Like the stories of Krishna and Arjuna in the Bhagavad-Gita, the images and language of battle in Liber AL are (in my ever-so-humble opinion) spiritual metaphors designed to instruct us in occult techniques of self-mastery. Those taking them literally fall into the same error as the Xian fanatics who believe that all of our fates hinge on the blood-sacrifice of a Palestinian carpenter's lad.

        II.27. 
        There is great danger in me; for who doth not
        understand these runes shall make a great miss. He shall fall down into the pit called
        Because, and there he shall perish with the dogs of Reason.

        Identify “the wretched & the weak” within yourself; that is your enemy.

        I.6. Be thou
        Hadit, my secret centre, my heart & my
        tongue!


        II.47. 
        Where I am these are not.

        Love is the law, love under will.

        Dale R. Gowin
        www.Luminist.org






        ________________________________
        From: thesonofthebeast <thesonofthebeast@...>
        To: thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 6:17 AM
        Subject: [t93] WAR


         
        We need to gather as many Thelemites as we possibly can. Everybody knows our Solar King God Ra-Hoor-Khuit is all based on War and Vengeance so what are we doing scattered all over the place. We need a place to gather and discuss all of our battle plants.
        When you're a Thelemite you always tend to stay stuck in this Apocalyptic Battle against Evil Tyrannic Religions killing people trying to force them to pray and bow down unto their God, I will have none of this! We must fight back and gather our soldiers somewhere we can be safe and free from Evil and Persecution. We have to fight Power that's holding us back.
        We have to get together and discuss our Battle Plans against these evil parasites. It's about time somebody made a fort to gather all of our soldiers, it's a crazy fucked up world out there and there's no safe place for Thelemites to hide.
        This is exaclty why I've erected www.Volukur.com, a mecca for all Thelemties of all kinds to gather and keep ourselves safe from any outside harm with Magick to Empower, Enchant and Protect us from any harm that may come our way. So join me, join me in my Battle against these Tyrannic Religions to try and Battle them all away until we arrive in a New World of Truth and Freedom!

        The main chat room is Volukur General Chat where we can gather to simply meet each other and discuss our plans.

        Here are part of my plans:
        http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/research-teams.html

        http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/manifesto.html

        We're going to really need that much power if we're going to succeed, it's pretty much just a way to get you to think the necessary way to think when you're in a War. It's just get your momentum to start planning and building on what we're going to do. I feel like there are certain Religious factions at the moment getting ready to try and attack us, so it's really important that we plan, plan, plan and devise our methods of defense!

        Here is the link to my Blog:

        http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/most-important-blog-93-posts.html




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • richard stratton
        Yours was an undeservedly kind response Dale. I very much like what you say. I would only add the Hebrew word for War engine is QBL. Thats right! Qabbalah,
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 29, 2011
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          Yours was an undeservedly kind response Dale. I very much like what you say.
          I would only add the Hebrew word for "War engine" is QBL. Thats right!
          Qabbalah, or the root thereof. Read Ch3 with that in mind and a whole new
          world of interpretation opens up. Qabbalah destroys the literal shell of the
          word thus revealing the esoteric. As Key 17 follows Key 16. ALMR

          On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Dale R. Gowin <luminist93@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
          >
          > Peace.
          >
          > Chill out, dude. It would be a serious mistake to confuse metaphor for
          > literal truth.
          >
          > Liber AL, Ch. 3:
          > 63.
          > The fool readeth this Book of the Law, and its
          > comment; & he understandeth it not.
          > 64.
          > Let him come through the first ordeal, & it
          > will be to him as silver.
          > 65.
          > Through the second, gold.
          > 66.
          > Through the third, stones of precious water.
          > 67.
          > Through the fourth, ultimate sparks of the intimate
          > fire.
          >
          > Like the stories of Krishna and Arjuna in the Bhagavad-Gita, the images and
          > language of battle in Liber AL are (in my ever-so-humble opinion) spiritual
          > metaphors designed to instruct us in occult techniques of self-mastery.
          > Those taking them literally fall into the same error as the Xian fanatics
          > who believe that all of our fates hinge on the blood-sacrifice of a
          > Palestinian carpenter's lad.
          >
          > II.27.
          > There is great danger in me; for who doth not
          > understand these runes shall make a great miss. He shall fall down into the
          > pit called
          > Because, and there he shall perish with the dogs of Reason.
          >
          > Identify �the wretched & the weak� within yourself; that is your enemy.
          >
          > I.6. Be thou
          > Hadit, my secret centre, my heart & my
          > tongue!
          >
          > II.47.
          > Where I am these are not.
          >
          > Love is the law, love under will.
          >
          > Dale R. Gowin
          > www.Luminist.org
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: thesonofthebeast <thesonofthebeast@...>
          > To: thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 6:17 AM
          > Subject: [t93] WAR
          >
          >
          > We need to gather as many Thelemites as we possibly can. Everybody knows
          > our Solar King God Ra-Hoor-Khuit is all based on War and Vengeance so what
          > are we doing scattered all over the place. We need a place to gather and
          > discuss all of our battle plants.
          > When you're a Thelemite you always tend to stay stuck in this Apocalyptic
          > Battle against Evil Tyrannic Religions killing people trying to force them
          > to pray and bow down unto their God, I will have none of this! We must fight
          > back and gather our soldiers somewhere we can be safe and free from Evil and
          > Persecution. We have to fight Power that's holding us back.
          > We have to get together and discuss our Battle Plans against these evil
          > parasites. It's about time somebody made a fort to gather all of our
          > soldiers, it's a crazy fucked up world out there and there's no safe place
          > for Thelemites to hide.
          > This is exaclty why I've erected www.Volukur.com, a mecca for all
          > Thelemties of all kinds to gather and keep ourselves safe from any outside
          > harm with Magick to Empower, Enchant and Protect us from any harm that may
          > come our way. So join me, join me in my Battle against these Tyrannic
          > Religions to try and Battle them all away until we arrive in a New World of
          > Truth and Freedom!
          >
          > The main chat room is Volukur General Chat where we can gather to simply
          > meet each other and discuss our plans.
          >
          > Here are part of my plans:
          > http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/research-teams.html
          >
          > http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/manifesto.html
          >
          > We're going to really need that much power if we're going to succeed, it's
          > pretty much just a way to get you to think the necessary way to think when
          > you're in a War. It's just get your momentum to start planning and building
          > on what we're going to do. I feel like there are certain Religious factions
          > at the moment getting ready to try and attack us, so it's really important
          > that we plan, plan, plan and devise our methods of defense!
          >
          > Here is the link to my Blog:
          >
          > http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/most-important-blog-93-posts.html
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Fabio Baldassari
          It is a joke, isn´t it? For me, the most important (and most difficult) battle is inside myself, against my own demons and ignorance. Best, FB
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 30, 2011
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            It is a joke, isn�t it?
            For me, the most important (and most difficult) battle is inside myself, against my own demons and ignorance.
            Best,
            FB



            ________________________________

            From: thesonofthebeast <thesonofthebeast@...>

            To: thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com

            Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 6:17 AM

            Subject: [t93] WAR





            We need to gather as many Thelemites as we possibly can. Everybody knows our Solar King God Ra-Hoor-Khuit is all based on War and Vengeance so what are we doing scattered all over the place. We need a place to gather and discuss all of our battle plants.

            When you're a Thelemite you always tend to stay stuck in this Apocalyptic Battle against Evil Tyrannic Religions killing people trying to force them to pray and bow down unto their God, I will have none of this! We must fight back and gather our soldiers somewhere we can be safe and free from Evil and Persecution. We have to fight Power that's holding us back.

            We have to get together and discuss our Battle Plans against these evil parasites. It's about time somebody made a fort to gather all of our soldiers, it's a crazy fucked up world out there and there's no safe place for Thelemites to hide.

            This is exaclty why I've erected www.Volukur.com, a mecca for all Thelemties of all kinds to gather and keep ourselves safe from any outside harm with Magick to Empower, Enchant and Protect us from any harm that may come our way. So join me, join me in my Battle against these Tyrannic Religions to try and Battle them all away until we arrive in a New World of Truth and Freedom!



            The main chat room is Volukur General Chat where we can gather to simply meet each other and discuss our plans.



            Here are part of my plans:

            http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/research-teams.html



            http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/manifesto.html



            We're going to really need that much power if we're going to succeed, it's pretty much just a way to get you to think the necessary way to think when you're in a War. It's just get your momentum to start planning and building on what we're going to do. I feel like there are certain Religious factions at the moment getting ready to try and attack us, so it's really important that we plan, plan, plan and devise our methods of defense!



            Here is the link to my Blog:



            http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/most-important-blog-93-posts.html



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Lianna Costantino
            How old are you, thesonofthebeast ??? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 30, 2011
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              How old are you, "thesonofthebeast"???


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jake Stratton-Kent
              Had to check that out in Strongs: Qobel, a battering ram, nice. btw this gives III 7 an alternative reading I will give you a qabalah... ALWays Jake ... --
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 31, 2011
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                Had to check that out in Strongs: Qobel, a battering ram, nice.

                btw this gives III 7 an alternative reading 'I will give you a qabalah...'

                ALWays

                Jake



                On 30 August 2011 03:20, richard stratton <pehrose@...> wrote:
                > Yours was an undeservedly kind response Dale. I very much like what you say.
                > I would only add the Hebrew word for "War engine" is QBL. Thats right!
                > Qabbalah, or the root thereof. Read Ch3 with that in mind and a whole new
                > world of interpretation opens up. Qabbalah destroys the literal shell of the
                > word thus revealing the esoteric. As Key 17 follows Key 16. ALMR
                >
                > On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Dale R. Gowin <luminist93@...> wrote:
                >
                >> **
                >>
                >>
                >> Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
                >>
                >> Peace.
                >>
                >> Chill out, dude. It would be a serious mistake to confuse metaphor for
                >> literal truth.
                >>
                >> Liber AL, Ch. 3:
                >> 63.
                >> The fool readeth this Book of the Law, and its
                >> comment; & he understandeth it not.
                >> 64.
                >> Let him come through the first ordeal, & it
                >> will be to him as silver.
                >> 65.
                >> Through the second, gold.
                >> 66.
                >> Through the third, stones of precious water.
                >> 67.
                >> Through the fourth, ultimate sparks of the intimate
                >> fire.
                >>
                >> Like the stories of Krishna and Arjuna in the Bhagavad-Gita, the images and
                >> language of battle in Liber AL are (in my ever-so-humble opinion) spiritual
                >> metaphors designed to instruct us in occult techniques of self-mastery.
                >> Those taking them literally fall into the same error as the Xian fanatics
                >> who believe that all of our fates hinge on the blood-sacrifice of a
                >> Palestinian carpenter's lad.
                >>
                >> II.27.
                >> There is great danger in me; for who doth not
                >> understand these runes shall make a great miss. He shall fall down into the
                >> pit called
                >> Because, and there he shall perish with the dogs of Reason.
                >>
                >> Identify “the wretched & the weak” within yourself; that is your enemy.
                >>
                >> I.6. Be thou
                >> Hadit, my secret centre, my heart & my
                >> tongue!
                >>
                >> II.47.
                >> Where I am these are not.
                >>
                >> Love is the law, love under will.
                >>
                >> Dale R. Gowin
                >> www.Luminist.org
                >>
                >> ________________________________
                >> From: thesonofthebeast <thesonofthebeast@...>
                >> To: thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com
                >> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 6:17 AM
                >> Subject: [t93] WAR
                >>
                >>
                >> We need to gather as many Thelemites as we possibly can. Everybody knows
                >> our Solar King God Ra-Hoor-Khuit is all based on War and Vengeance so what
                >> are we doing scattered all over the place. We need a place to gather and
                >> discuss all of our battle plants.
                >> When you're a Thelemite you always tend to stay stuck in this Apocalyptic
                >> Battle against Evil Tyrannic Religions killing people trying to force them
                >> to pray and bow down unto their God, I will have none of this! We must fight
                >> back and gather our soldiers somewhere we can be safe and free from Evil and
                >> Persecution. We have to fight Power that's holding us back.
                >> We have to get together and discuss our Battle Plans against these evil
                >> parasites. It's about time somebody made a fort to gather all of our
                >> soldiers, it's a crazy fucked up world out there and there's no safe place
                >> for Thelemites to hide.
                >> This is exaclty why I've erected www.Volukur.com, a mecca for all
                >> Thelemties of all kinds to gather and keep ourselves safe from any outside
                >> harm with Magick to Empower, Enchant and Protect us from any harm that may
                >> come our way. So join me, join me in my Battle against these Tyrannic
                >> Religions to try and Battle them all away until we arrive in a New World of
                >> Truth and Freedom!
                >>
                >> The main chat room is Volukur General Chat where we can gather to simply
                >> meet each other and discuss our plans.
                >>
                >> Here are part of my plans:
                >> http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/research-teams.html
                >>
                >> http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/manifesto.html
                >>
                >> We're going to really need that much power if we're going to succeed, it's
                >> pretty much just a way to get you to think the necessary way to think when
                >> you're in a War. It's just get your momentum to start planning and building
                >> on what we're going to do. I feel like there are certain Religious factions
                >> at the moment getting ready to try and attack us, so it's really important
                >> that we plan, plan, plan and devise our methods of defense!
                >>
                >> Here is the link to my Blog:
                >>
                >> http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/most-important-blog-93-posts.html
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >



                --
                Jake

                http://www.underworld-apothecary.com/
              • richard stratton
                Indeed Jake! That is exactly my point. It, in fact, gives a whole new edifying angle wherever the word War is used. The literal is destroyed (Key16) to
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 31, 2011
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                  Indeed Jake! That is exactly my point. It, in fact, gives a whole new
                  edifying angle wherever the word "War" is used. The literal is destroyed
                  (Key16) to uncover the esoteric (Key17).

                  My best regards . . .Richard Stratton

                  On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 2:25 AM, Jake Stratton-Kent <
                  jakestrattonkent@...> wrote:

                  > Had to check that out in Strongs: Qobel, a battering ram, nice.
                  >
                  > btw this gives III 7 an alternative reading 'I will give you a qabalah...'
                  >
                  > ALWays
                  >
                  > Jake
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On 30 August 2011 03:20, richard stratton <pehrose@...> wrote:
                  > > Yours was an undeservedly kind response Dale. I very much like what you
                  > say.
                  > > I would only add the Hebrew word for "War engine" is QBL. Thats right!
                  > > Qabbalah, or the root thereof. Read Ch3 with that in mind and a whole new
                  > > world of interpretation opens up. Qabbalah destroys the literal shell of
                  > the
                  > > word thus revealing the esoteric. As Key 17 follows Key 16. ALMR
                  > >
                  > > On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Dale R. Gowin <luminist93@...>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > >> **
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
                  > >>
                  > >> Peace.
                  > >>
                  > >> Chill out, dude. It would be a serious mistake to confuse metaphor for
                  > >> literal truth.
                  > >>
                  > >> Liber AL, Ch. 3:
                  > >> 63.
                  > >> The fool readeth this Book of the Law, and its
                  > >> comment; & he understandeth it not.
                  > >> 64.
                  > >> Let him come through the first ordeal, & it
                  > >> will be to him as silver.
                  > >> 65.
                  > >> Through the second, gold.
                  > >> 66.
                  > >> Through the third, stones of precious water.
                  > >> 67.
                  > >> Through the fourth, ultimate sparks of the intimate
                  > >> fire.
                  > >>
                  > >> Like the stories of Krishna and Arjuna in the Bhagavad-Gita, the images
                  > and
                  > >> language of battle in Liber AL are (in my ever-so-humble opinion)
                  > spiritual
                  > >> metaphors designed to instruct us in occult techniques of self-mastery.
                  > >> Those taking them literally fall into the same error as the Xian
                  > fanatics
                  > >> who believe that all of our fates hinge on the blood-sacrifice of a
                  > >> Palestinian carpenter's lad.
                  > >>
                  > >> II.27.
                  > >> There is great danger in me; for who doth not
                  > >> understand these runes shall make a great miss. He shall fall down into
                  > the
                  > >> pit called
                  > >> Because, and there he shall perish with the dogs of Reason.
                  > >>
                  > >> Identify �the wretched & the weak� within yourself; that is your enemy.
                  > >>
                  > >> I.6. Be thou
                  > >> Hadit, my secret centre, my heart & my
                  > >> tongue!
                  > >>
                  > >> II.47.
                  > >> Where I am these are not.
                  > >>
                  > >> Love is the law, love under will.
                  > >>
                  > >> Dale R. Gowin
                  > >> www.Luminist.org
                  > >>
                  > >> ________________________________
                  > >> From: thesonofthebeast <thesonofthebeast@...>
                  > >> To: thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com
                  > >> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 6:17 AM
                  > >> Subject: [t93] WAR
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> We need to gather as many Thelemites as we possibly can. Everybody knows
                  > >> our Solar King God Ra-Hoor-Khuit is all based on War and Vengeance so
                  > what
                  > >> are we doing scattered all over the place. We need a place to gather and
                  > >> discuss all of our battle plants.
                  > >> When you're a Thelemite you always tend to stay stuck in this
                  > Apocalyptic
                  > >> Battle against Evil Tyrannic Religions killing people trying to force
                  > them
                  > >> to pray and bow down unto their God, I will have none of this! We must
                  > fight
                  > >> back and gather our soldiers somewhere we can be safe and free from Evil
                  > and
                  > >> Persecution. We have to fight Power that's holding us back.
                  > >> We have to get together and discuss our Battle Plans against these evil
                  > >> parasites. It's about time somebody made a fort to gather all of our
                  > >> soldiers, it's a crazy fucked up world out there and there's no safe
                  > place
                  > >> for Thelemites to hide.
                  > >> This is exaclty why I've erected www.Volukur.com, a mecca for all
                  > >> Thelemties of all kinds to gather and keep ourselves safe from any
                  > outside
                  > >> harm with Magick to Empower, Enchant and Protect us from any harm that
                  > may
                  > >> come our way. So join me, join me in my Battle against these Tyrannic
                  > >> Religions to try and Battle them all away until we arrive in a New World
                  > of
                  > >> Truth and Freedom!
                  > >>
                  > >> The main chat room is Volukur General Chat where we can gather to simply
                  > >> meet each other and discuss our plans.
                  > >>
                  > >> Here are part of my plans:
                  > >> http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/research-teams.html
                  > >>
                  > >> http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/manifesto.html
                  > >>
                  > >> We're going to really need that much power if we're going to succeed,
                  > it's
                  > >> pretty much just a way to get you to think the necessary way to think
                  > when
                  > >> you're in a War. It's just get your momentum to start planning and
                  > building
                  > >> on what we're going to do. I feel like there are certain Religious
                  > factions
                  > >> at the moment getting ready to try and attack us, so it's really
                  > important
                  > >> that we plan, plan, plan and devise our methods of defense!
                  > >>
                  > >> Here is the link to my Blog:
                  > >>
                  > >> http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/most-important-blog-93-posts.html
                  > >>
                  > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Jake
                  >
                  > http://www.underworld-apothecary.com/
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • richard stratton
                  I am a God of War . . .etc So refreshing! R.S. On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 2:25 AM, Jake Stratton-Kent
                  Message 8 of 21 , Aug 31, 2011
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                    "I am a God of War . . .etc" So refreshing! R.S.

                    On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 2:25 AM, Jake Stratton-Kent <
                    jakestrattonkent@...> wrote:

                    > Had to check that out in Strongs: Qobel, a battering ram, nice.
                    >
                    > btw this gives III 7 an alternative reading 'I will give you a qabalah...'
                    >
                    > ALWays
                    >
                    > Jake
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On 30 August 2011 03:20, richard stratton <pehrose@...> wrote:
                    > > Yours was an undeservedly kind response Dale. I very much like what you
                    > say.
                    > > I would only add the Hebrew word for "War engine" is QBL. Thats right!
                    > > Qabbalah, or the root thereof. Read Ch3 with that in mind and a whole new
                    > > world of interpretation opens up. Qabbalah destroys the literal shell of
                    > the
                    > > word thus revealing the esoteric. As Key 17 follows Key 16. ALMR
                    > >
                    > > On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Dale R. Gowin <luminist93@...>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > >> **
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
                    > >>
                    > >> Peace.
                    > >>
                    > >> Chill out, dude. It would be a serious mistake to confuse metaphor for
                    > >> literal truth.
                    > >>
                    > >> Liber AL, Ch. 3:
                    > >> 63.
                    > >> The fool readeth this Book of the Law, and its
                    > >> comment; & he understandeth it not.
                    > >> 64.
                    > >> Let him come through the first ordeal, & it
                    > >> will be to him as silver.
                    > >> 65.
                    > >> Through the second, gold.
                    > >> 66.
                    > >> Through the third, stones of precious water.
                    > >> 67.
                    > >> Through the fourth, ultimate sparks of the intimate
                    > >> fire.
                    > >>
                    > >> Like the stories of Krishna and Arjuna in the Bhagavad-Gita, the images
                    > and
                    > >> language of battle in Liber AL are (in my ever-so-humble opinion)
                    > spiritual
                    > >> metaphors designed to instruct us in occult techniques of self-mastery.
                    > >> Those taking them literally fall into the same error as the Xian
                    > fanatics
                    > >> who believe that all of our fates hinge on the blood-sacrifice of a
                    > >> Palestinian carpenter's lad.
                    > >>
                    > >> II.27.
                    > >> There is great danger in me; for who doth not
                    > >> understand these runes shall make a great miss. He shall fall down into
                    > the
                    > >> pit called
                    > >> Because, and there he shall perish with the dogs of Reason.
                    > >>
                    > >> Identify �the wretched & the weak� within yourself; that is your enemy.
                    > >>
                    > >> I.6. Be thou
                    > >> Hadit, my secret centre, my heart & my
                    > >> tongue!
                    > >>
                    > >> II.47.
                    > >> Where I am these are not.
                    > >>
                    > >> Love is the law, love under will.
                    > >>
                    > >> Dale R. Gowin
                    > >> www.Luminist.org
                    > >>
                    > >> ________________________________
                    > >> From: thesonofthebeast <thesonofthebeast@...>
                    > >> To: thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com
                    > >> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 6:17 AM
                    > >> Subject: [t93] WAR
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> We need to gather as many Thelemites as we possibly can. Everybody knows
                    > >> our Solar King God Ra-Hoor-Khuit is all based on War and Vengeance so
                    > what
                    > >> are we doing scattered all over the place. We need a place to gather and
                    > >> discuss all of our battle plants.
                    > >> When you're a Thelemite you always tend to stay stuck in this
                    > Apocalyptic
                    > >> Battle against Evil Tyrannic Religions killing people trying to force
                    > them
                    > >> to pray and bow down unto their God, I will have none of this! We must
                    > fight
                    > >> back and gather our soldiers somewhere we can be safe and free from Evil
                    > and
                    > >> Persecution. We have to fight Power that's holding us back.
                    > >> We have to get together and discuss our Battle Plans against these evil
                    > >> parasites. It's about time somebody made a fort to gather all of our
                    > >> soldiers, it's a crazy fucked up world out there and there's no safe
                    > place
                    > >> for Thelemites to hide.
                    > >> This is exaclty why I've erected www.Volukur.com, a mecca for all
                    > >> Thelemties of all kinds to gather and keep ourselves safe from any
                    > outside
                    > >> harm with Magick to Empower, Enchant and Protect us from any harm that
                    > may
                    > >> come our way. So join me, join me in my Battle against these Tyrannic
                    > >> Religions to try and Battle them all away until we arrive in a New World
                    > of
                    > >> Truth and Freedom!
                    > >>
                    > >> The main chat room is Volukur General Chat where we can gather to simply
                    > >> meet each other and discuss our plans.
                    > >>
                    > >> Here are part of my plans:
                    > >> http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/research-teams.html
                    > >>
                    > >> http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/manifesto.html
                    > >>
                    > >> We're going to really need that much power if we're going to succeed,
                    > it's
                    > >> pretty much just a way to get you to think the necessary way to think
                    > when
                    > >> you're in a War. It's just get your momentum to start planning and
                    > building
                    > >> on what we're going to do. I feel like there are certain Religious
                    > factions
                    > >> at the moment getting ready to try and attack us, so it's really
                    > important
                    > >> that we plan, plan, plan and devise our methods of defense!
                    > >>
                    > >> Here is the link to my Blog:
                    > >>
                    > >> http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/most-important-blog-93-posts.html
                    > >>
                    > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Jake
                    >
                    > http://www.underworld-apothecary.com/
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jake Stratton-Kent
                    Devils advocaat time innit. Much as an allegorical exegesis is appealing (and has the authority of Hellenic and Semitic tradition) there are some awkward
                    Message 9 of 21 , Sep 1, 2011
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                      Devils advocaat time innit.

                      Much as an allegorical exegesis is appealing (and has the authority of
                      Hellenic and Semitic tradition) there are some awkward elements. Two
                      worth mentioning:

                      The exegetical guidelines in Equinox of the Gods is *against*
                      interpretations at odds with the literal sense. Well hey - I don't
                      mind the prophet being wrong, but isn't he meant to be a big deal? ;D

                      Then, what is the allegorical 'inner psychological' interpretation of
                      'As brothers fight ye'? Which contrary to pop usage doesn't mean
                      squabble like brats (sibling rivalry) but stand shoulder to shoulder
                      like a 'Band of brothers'.

                      Surely it would be forcing the issue to see an admonition to enlist
                      the permitted tendencies in our nature to fight together against those
                      deemed unacceptable? Plainly it means thelemites should work together
                      in some cause. Which while not exactly a success story - barring very
                      partisan readings - goes beyond purely inner, psychological &
                      non-collective interpretations.

                      On balance a militaristic reading appears to be at least as viable.
                      Though perhaps as with the plain meaning of the gospels an expected
                      eschaton failed to appear and an alternative reading had to be sought?

                      BTW the tendencies we are encouraged to suppress (stamp down etc)
                      aren't simply feelings of inadequacy etc but noble virtues in other
                      traditions: Pity, Compassion etc. A macho militaristic caste of
                      emotionless zombies and their equally numb camp followers could easily
                      be implied.

                      Also, given the bewildering complexity of Crowley's magical system,
                      seeing it as some kind of personal therapy seems a little jokey.
                      Masonic Initiations, Qabalah, Ceremonial magic (of C19th vintage) etc.
                      etc. - if the point is only suppressing undesired psychological
                      tendencies, wouldn't it be cheaper to take some tranquilisers?

                      In short, all is not well in the exegetical tradition of Thelema, at
                      least in part through contradictory tendencies. The prophet's guidance
                      in exegesis is discreetly ignored while he and his system remain
                      iconic in other respects, to the exclusion of alternatives.

                      You simply can't have it both ways.

                      If the text is bigger than him, then why on earth fool around with his
                      other hobbies? Its not as if he improved on Hermeticism, Theurgic
                      Neoplatonism and the rest, or even understood the tradition preceding
                      the Golden Dawn particularly well.

                      Shame he couldn't have been an anonymous scribe, we'd have so much less baggage!

                      ALWays

                      Jake

                      On 29 August 2011 01:11, Dale R. Gowin <luminist93@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
                      >
                      > Peace.
                      >
                      > Chill out, dude. It would be a serious mistake to confuse metaphor for literal truth.
                      >
                      > Liber AL, Ch. 3:
                      > 63.
                      > The fool readeth this Book of the Law, and its
                      > comment; & he understandeth it not.
                      > 64.
                      > Let him come through the first ordeal, & it
                      > will be to him as silver.
                      > 65.
                      > Through the second, gold.
                      > 66.
                      > Through the third, stones of precious water.
                      > 67.
                      > Through the fourth, ultimate sparks of the intimate
                      > fire.
                      >
                      > Like the stories of Krishna and Arjuna in the Bhagavad-Gita, the images and language of battle in Liber AL are (in my ever-so-humble opinion) spiritual metaphors designed to instruct us in occult techniques of self-mastery. Those taking them literally fall into the same error as the Xian fanatics who believe that all of our fates hinge on the blood-sacrifice of a Palestinian carpenter's lad.
                      >
                      > II.27.
                      > There is great danger in me; for who doth not
                      > understand these runes shall make a great miss. He shall fall down into the pit called
                      > Because, and there he shall perish with the dogs of Reason.
                      >
                      > Identify “the wretched & the weak” within yourself; that is your enemy.
                      >
                      > I.6. Be thou
                      > Hadit, my secret centre, my heart & my
                      > tongue!
                      >
                      > II.47.
                      > Where I am these are not.
                      >
                      > Love is the law, love under will.
                      >
                      > Dale R. Gowin
                      > www.Luminist.org
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: thesonofthebeast <thesonofthebeast@...>
                      > To: thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 6:17 AM
                      > Subject: [t93] WAR
                      >
                      >
                      > We need to gather as many Thelemites as we possibly can. Everybody knows our Solar King God Ra-Hoor-Khuit is all based on War and Vengeance so what are we doing scattered all over the place. We need a place to gather and discuss all of our battle plants.
                      > When you're a Thelemite you always tend to stay stuck in this Apocalyptic Battle against Evil Tyrannic Religions killing people trying to force them to pray and bow down unto their God, I will have none of this! We must fight back and gather our soldiers somewhere we can be safe and free from Evil and Persecution. We have to fight Power that's holding us back.
                      > We have to get together and discuss our Battle Plans against these evil parasites. It's about time somebody made a fort to gather all of our soldiers, it's a crazy fucked up world out there and there's no safe place for Thelemites to hide.
                      > This is exaclty why I've erected www.Volukur.com, a mecca for all Thelemties of all kinds to gather and keep ourselves safe from any outside harm with Magick to Empower, Enchant and Protect us from any harm that may come our way. So join me, join me in my Battle against these Tyrannic Religions to try and Battle them all away until we arrive in a New World of Truth and Freedom!
                      >
                      > The main chat room is Volukur General Chat where we can gather to simply meet each other and discuss our plans.
                      >
                      > Here are part of my plans:
                      > http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/research-teams.html
                      >
                      > http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/manifesto.html
                      >
                      > We're going to really need that much power if we're going to succeed, it's pretty much just a way to get you to think the necessary way to think when you're in a War. It's just get your momentum to start planning and building on what we're going to do. I feel like there are certain Religious factions at the moment getting ready to try and attack us, so it's really important that we plan, plan, plan and devise our methods of defense!
                      >
                      > Here is the link to my Blog:
                      >
                      > http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/most-important-blog-93-posts.html
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >


                      --
                      Jake

                      http://www.underworld-apothecary.com/
                    • starc@
                      93, 93 s, ... Like AC had a lot of experience with siblings, anyway. There are suggestions that during the US/British war, that masonic brothers on both
                      Message 10 of 21 , Sep 1, 2011
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                        93, 93's,

                        On 09/01/2011 02:44 AM, Jake Stratton-Kent wrote:
                        > Devils advocaat time innit.
                        >
                        > Much as an allegorical exegesis is appealing (and has the authority of
                        > Hellenic and Semitic tradition) there are some awkward elements. Two
                        > worth mentioning:
                        >
                        > The exegetical guidelines in Equinox of the Gods is *against*
                        > interpretations at odds with the literal sense. Well hey - I don't
                        > mind the prophet being wrong, but isn't he meant to be a big deal? ;D
                        >
                        > Then, what is the allegorical 'inner psychological' interpretation of
                        > 'As brothers fight ye'? Which contrary to pop usage doesn't mean
                        > squabble like brats (sibling rivalry) but stand shoulder to shoulder
                        > like a 'Band of brothers'.

                        Like AC had a lot of experience with siblings, anyway. There are
                        suggestions that during the US/British war, that masonic "brothers" on
                        both sides of the conflict endeavored to direct their respective armies
                        orthogonally, thereby avoiding direct engagement. (See _The Temple and
                        the Lodge_).

                        > Surely it would be forcing the issue to see an admonition to enlist
                        > the permitted tendencies in our nature to fight together against those
                        >deemed unacceptable?

                        Depends on whether "ye" is interpreted as singular or plural.

                        > Plainly it means thelemites should work together
                        > in some cause. Which while not exactly a success story - barring very
                        > partisan readings - goes beyond purely inner, psychological&
                        > non-collective interpretations.

                        yet, "inner, psychological& non-collective" work must be done before any
                        useful outer, psychological & collective effort is effective. The past
                        is littered with "One true and only" interpretations of unbalanced
                        individuals being foisted upon populations, with disastrous results.

                        Will the one true and only "son" of the prophet please raise your hand?
                        Please don't all shout at once.

                        > On balance a militaristic reading appears to be at least as viable.
                        > Though perhaps as with the plain meaning of the gospels an expected
                        > eschaton failed to appear and an alternative reading had to be sought?

                        Hmmm, two world wars, global conflicts on a scale previously unknown,
                        continuing to this day. Need another reading be sought?

                        > BTW the tendencies we are encouraged to suppress (stamp down etc)
                        > aren't simply feelings of inadequacy etc but noble virtues in other
                        > traditions: Pity, Compassion etc. A macho militaristic caste of
                        > emotionless zombies and their equally numb camp followers could easily
                        > be implied.
                        >
                        > Also, given the bewildering complexity of Crowley's magical system,
                        > seeing it as some kind of personal therapy seems a little jokey.
                        > Masonic Initiations, Qabalah, Ceremonial magic (of C19th vintage) etc.
                        > etc. - if the point is only suppressing undesired psychological
                        > tendencies, wouldn't it be cheaper to take some tranquilisers?

                        Not nessisarily an either/or proposition. (e.g. Al vel legis, II 22)

                        > In short, all is not well in the exegetical tradition of Thelema, at
                        > least in part through contradictory tendencies.

                        Contradiction, dialectic may be paths forward. Consistency is the
                        hallmark of small, narrow minds.

                        > The prophet's guidance
                        > in exegesis is discreetly ignored while he and his system remain
                        > iconic in other respects, to the exclusion of alternatives.
                        >
                        > You simply can't have it both ways.

                        Why not? There is also the possibility of "blinds" to misdirect the
                        unwary. If the system is effective (to be determined experimentally and
                        experientially), then "guidance" that is not an effective guide may be
                        disregarded (at peril). Perceiving the clay feet of one's idols may be a
                        mark of maturity.

                        > If the text is bigger than him,

                        It is. He died. The text survives.

                        > then why on earth fool around with his
                        > other hobbies?

                        Emulation of a role-model? Because the "other hobbies" are fun and/or
                        useful?

                        > Its not as if he improved on Hermeticism, Theurgic
                        > Neoplatonism and the rest, or even understood the tradition preceding
                        > the Golden Dawn particularly well.

                        But yet, his efforts may have projected these traditions into the
                        future. Would the GD and its spinoffs have the same popularity today
                        without Crowley, Regardie, etc.?

                        > Shame he couldn't have been an anonymous scribe, we'd have so much less baggage!

                        And fewer clues!

                        > ALWays
                        >
                        > Jake

                        EQ is the ALW,

                        -- *


                        > On 29 August 2011 01:11, Dale R. Gowin<luminist93@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
                        >>
                        >> Peace.
                        >>
                        >> Chill out, dude. It would be a serious mistake to confuse metaphor for literal truth.
                        >>
                        >> Liber AL, Ch. 3:
                        >> 63.
                        >> The fool readeth this Book of the Law, and its
                        >> comment;& he understandeth it not.
                        >> 64.
                        >> Let him come through the first ordeal,& it
                        >> will be to him as silver.
                        >> 65.
                        >> Through the second, gold.
                        >> 66.
                        >> Through the third, stones of precious water.
                        >> 67.
                        >> Through the fourth, ultimate sparks of the intimate
                        >> fire.
                        >>
                        >> Like the stories of Krishna and Arjuna in the Bhagavad-Gita, the images and language of battle in Liber AL are (in my ever-so-humble opinion) spiritual metaphors designed to instruct us in occult techniques of self-mastery. Those taking them literally fall into the same error as the Xian fanatics who believe that all of our fates hinge on the blood-sacrifice of a Palestinian carpenter's lad.
                        >>
                        >> II.27.
                        >> There is great danger in me; for who doth not
                        >> understand these runes shall make a great miss. He shall fall down into the pit called
                        >> Because, and there he shall perish with the dogs of Reason.
                        >>
                        >> Identify “the wretched& the weak” within yourself; that is your enemy.
                        >>
                        >> I.6. Be thou
                        >> Hadit, my secret centre, my heart& my
                        >> tongue!
                        >>
                        >> II.47.
                        >> Where I am these are not.
                        >>
                        >> Love is the law, love under will.
                        >>
                        >> Dale R. Gowin
                        >> www.Luminist.org
                        >>
                        >> ________________________________
                        >> From: thesonofthebeast<thesonofthebeast@...>
                        >> To: thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com
                        >> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 6:17 AM
                        >> Subject: [t93] WAR
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> We need to gather as many Thelemites as we possibly can. Everybody knows our Solar King God Ra-Hoor-Khuit is all based on War and Vengeance so what are we doing scattered all over the place. We need a place to gather and discuss all of our battle plants.
                        >> When you're a Thelemite you always tend to stay stuck in this Apocalyptic Battle against Evil Tyrannic Religions killing people trying to force them to pray and bow down unto their God, I will have none of this! We must fight back and gather our soldiers somewhere we can be safe and free from Evil and Persecution. We have to fight Power that's holding us back.
                        >> We have to get together and discuss our Battle Plans against these evil parasites. It's about time somebody made a fort to gather all of our soldiers, it's a crazy fucked up world out there and there's no safe place for Thelemites to hide.
                        >> This is exaclty why I've erected www.Volukur.com, a mecca for all Thelemties of all kinds to gather and keep ourselves safe from any outside harm with Magick to Empower, Enchant and Protect us from any harm that may come our way. So join me, join me in my Battle against these Tyrannic Religions to try and Battle them all away until we arrive in a New World of Truth and Freedom!
                        >>
                        >> The main chat room is Volukur General Chat where we can gather to simply meet each other and discuss our plans.
                        >>
                        >> Here are part of my plans:
                        >> http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/research-teams.html
                        >>
                        >> http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/manifesto.html
                        >>
                        >> We're going to really need that much power if we're going to succeed, it's pretty much just a way to get you to think the necessary way to think when you're in a War. It's just get your momentum to start planning and building on what we're going to do. I feel like there are certain Religious factions at the moment getting ready to try and attack us, so it's really important that we plan, plan, plan and devise our methods of defense!
                        >>
                        >> Here is the link to my Blog:
                        >>
                        >> http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/most-important-blog-93-posts.html
                        >>
                        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > Jake
                        >
                        > http://www.underworld-apothecary.com/
                        >
                      • richard stratton
                        Dear Jake, Thank you for your kind and considered response. Playing the D.A. is often, if not always, of benefit to open discussion. I should simply like to
                        Message 11 of 21 , Sep 1, 2011
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                          Dear Jake,
                          Thank you for your kind and considered response. Playing the D.A. is
                          often, if not always, of benefit to open discussion. I should simply like to
                          address your first point regarding the guidelines in E of G.
                          In his conclusion to the principles of Exegesis #3 A.C. states: "Where
                          the text is simple, straightforward English, I shall not seek, or allow, any
                          interpretation at variance with it." Though the word "literal" is not used
                          here, "simple, straightforward English", is good enough for me. However, he
                          goes on to say: "I may admit a Qabalistic or cryptographic secondary meaning
                          when such confirms, amplifies, deepens, intensifies, or clarifies the
                          obvious common-sense significance; but only if it be part of the general
                          plan of the "latent light" and self-proven by abundant witness." This seems
                          to indicate A.C. is not *against* a secondary meaning, even for plainly
                          literal parts of the text. What do you think about this?
                          As to what he will "admit"; under point 6. Wherever- a. "The words of
                          the text are obscure in themselves." This pretty much covers the phrase
                          "war-engine", at least for me. And f. "The use of capital letters present
                          peculiarities." It seem peculiar to me in III/3 both the word "War" and
                          "Vengeance" are capitalized! Of course VV is Vau spelled in full. I'm sure
                          you are quite aware of the significance of that letter in Qabalah.
                          The above seems to pretty well support a secondary meaning of the word
                          "War", and the phrase "war-engine" in the text. I very much look forward to
                          you response.

                          My best regards . . .Richard.




                          On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 2:44 AM, Jake Stratton-Kent <
                          jakestrattonkent@...> wrote:

                          > Devils advocaat time innit.
                          >
                          > Much as an allegorical exegesis is appealing (and has the authority of
                          > Hellenic and Semitic tradition) there are some awkward elements. Two
                          > worth mentioning:
                          >
                          > The exegetical guidelines in Equinox of the Gods is *against*
                          > interpretations at odds with the literal sense. Well hey - I don't
                          > mind the prophet being wrong, but isn't he meant to be a big deal? ;D
                          >
                          > Then, what is the allegorical 'inner psychological' interpretation of
                          > 'As brothers fight ye'? Which contrary to pop usage doesn't mean
                          > squabble like brats (sibling rivalry) but stand shoulder to shoulder
                          > like a 'Band of brothers'.
                          >
                          > Surely it would be forcing the issue to see an admonition to enlist
                          > the permitted tendencies in our nature to fight together against those
                          > deemed unacceptable? Plainly it means thelemites should work together
                          > in some cause. Which while not exactly a success story - barring very
                          > partisan readings - goes beyond purely inner, psychological &
                          > non-collective interpretations.
                          >
                          > On balance a militaristic reading appears to be at least as viable.
                          > Though perhaps as with the plain meaning of the gospels an expected
                          > eschaton failed to appear and an alternative reading had to be sought?
                          >
                          > BTW the tendencies we are encouraged to suppress (stamp down etc)
                          > aren't simply feelings of inadequacy etc but noble virtues in other
                          > traditions: Pity, Compassion etc. A macho militaristic caste of
                          > emotionless zombies and their equally numb camp followers could easily
                          > be implied.
                          >
                          > Also, given the bewildering complexity of Crowley's magical system,
                          > seeing it as some kind of personal therapy seems a little jokey.
                          > Masonic Initiations, Qabalah, Ceremonial magic (of C19th vintage) etc.
                          > etc. - if the point is only suppressing undesired psychological
                          > tendencies, wouldn't it be cheaper to take some tranquilisers?
                          >
                          > In short, all is not well in the exegetical tradition of Thelema, at
                          > least in part through contradictory tendencies. The prophet's guidance
                          > in exegesis is discreetly ignored while he and his system remain
                          > iconic in other respects, to the exclusion of alternatives.
                          >
                          > You simply can't have it both ways.
                          >
                          > If the text is bigger than him, then why on earth fool around with his
                          > other hobbies? Its not as if he improved on Hermeticism, Theurgic
                          > Neoplatonism and the rest, or even understood the tradition preceding
                          > the Golden Dawn particularly well.
                          >
                          > Shame he couldn't have been an anonymous scribe, we'd have so much less
                          > baggage!
                          >
                          > ALWays
                          >
                          > Jake
                          >
                          > On 29 August 2011 01:11, Dale R. Gowin <luminist93@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
                          > >
                          > > Peace.
                          > >
                          > > Chill out, dude. It would be a serious mistake to confuse metaphor for
                          > literal truth.
                          > >
                          > > Liber AL, Ch. 3:
                          > > 63.
                          > > The fool readeth this Book of the Law, and its
                          > > comment; & he understandeth it not.
                          > > 64.
                          > > Let him come through the first ordeal, & it
                          > > will be to him as silver.
                          > > 65.
                          > > Through the second, gold.
                          > > 66.
                          > > Through the third, stones of precious water.
                          > > 67.
                          > > Through the fourth, ultimate sparks of the intimate
                          > > fire.
                          > >
                          > > Like the stories of Krishna and Arjuna in the Bhagavad-Gita, the images
                          > and language of battle in Liber AL are (in my ever-so-humble opinion)
                          > spiritual metaphors designed to instruct us in occult techniques of
                          > self-mastery. Those taking them literally fall into the same error as the
                          > Xian fanatics who believe that all of our fates hinge on the blood-sacrifice
                          > of a Palestinian carpenter's lad.
                          > >
                          > > II.27.
                          > > There is great danger in me; for who doth not
                          > > understand these runes shall make a great miss. He shall fall down into
                          > the pit called
                          > > Because, and there he shall perish with the dogs of Reason.
                          > >
                          > > Identify �the wretched & the weak� within yourself; that is your enemy.
                          > >
                          > > I.6. Be thou
                          > > Hadit, my secret centre, my heart & my
                          > > tongue!
                          > >
                          > > II.47.
                          > > Where I am these are not.
                          > >
                          > > Love is the law, love under will.
                          > >
                          > > Dale R. Gowin
                          > > www.Luminist.org
                          > >
                          > > ________________________________
                          > > From: thesonofthebeast <thesonofthebeast@...>
                          > > To: thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 6:17 AM
                          > > Subject: [t93] WAR
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > We need to gather as many Thelemites as we possibly can. Everybody knows
                          > our Solar King God Ra-Hoor-Khuit is all based on War and Vengeance so what
                          > are we doing scattered all over the place. We need a place to gather and
                          > discuss all of our battle plants.
                          > > When you're a Thelemite you always tend to stay stuck in this Apocalyptic
                          > Battle against Evil Tyrannic Religions killing people trying to force them
                          > to pray and bow down unto their God, I will have none of this! We must fight
                          > back and gather our soldiers somewhere we can be safe and free from Evil and
                          > Persecution. We have to fight Power that's holding us back.
                          > > We have to get together and discuss our Battle Plans against these evil
                          > parasites. It's about time somebody made a fort to gather all of our
                          > soldiers, it's a crazy fucked up world out there and there's no safe place
                          > for Thelemites to hide.
                          > > This is exaclty why I've erected www.Volukur.com, a mecca for all
                          > Thelemties of all kinds to gather and keep ourselves safe from any outside
                          > harm with Magick to Empower, Enchant and Protect us from any harm that may
                          > come our way. So join me, join me in my Battle against these Tyrannic
                          > Religions to try and Battle them all away until we arrive in a New World of
                          > Truth and Freedom!
                          > >
                          > > The main chat room is Volukur General Chat where we can gather to simply
                          > meet each other and discuss our plans.
                          > >
                          > > Here are part of my plans:
                          > > http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/research-teams.html
                          > >
                          > > http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/manifesto.html
                          > >
                          > > We're going to really need that much power if we're going to succeed,
                          > it's pretty much just a way to get you to think the necessary way to think
                          > when you're in a War. It's just get your momentum to start planning and
                          > building on what we're going to do. I feel like there are certain Religious
                          > factions at the moment getting ready to try and attack us, so it's really
                          > important that we plan, plan, plan and devise our methods of defense!
                          > >
                          > > Here is the link to my Blog:
                          > >
                          > > http://theblog93.blogspot.com/2011/08/most-important-blog-93-posts.html
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          > Jake
                          >
                          > http://www.underworld-apothecary.com/
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Church of Gnostic Luminism
                          ... The exegetical guidelines in Equinox of the Gods is *against* interpretations at odds with the literal sense. ... The bottom line of the Commentary is:
                          Message 12 of 21 , Sep 1, 2011
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                            --- In thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com, Jake Stratton-Kent <jakestrattonkent@...> wrote:

                            ------------
                            The exegetical guidelines in Equinox of the Gods is *against* interpretations at odds with the literal sense.
                            ------------

                            The bottom line of the Commentary is: "All questions of the Law are to be decided only by appeal to my writings, each for himself." This remains good advice, even as to what this Commentary means.


                            -----------
                            Then, what is the allegorical 'inner psychological' interpretation of 'As brothers fight ye'?
                            -----------

                            Face the challenges of your spiritual path with courage, strength, and loyalty to the ideals with which you feel close kinship.


                            -----------
                            Plainly it means thelemites should work together in some cause.
                            -----------

                            Yes, "plainly" it does. But occult literature has many exoteric and esoteric levels of meaning, some of which are not "plain" — their interpretation requires Initiated levels of consciousness.


                            -----------
                            BTW the tendencies we are encouraged to suppress (stamp down etc) aren't simply feelings of inadequacy etc but noble virtues in other traditions: Pity, Compassion etc. A macho militaristic caste of emotionless zombies and their equally numb camp followers could easily be implied.
                            -----------

                            Cf. "the dogs of reason" in II.27. Understanding is received from above the abyss of reason. See Liber 418, the 5th Aethyr: "And this is the great Mystery of the Supernals that are beyond the Abyss. For below the Abyss, contradiction is division; but above the Abyss, contradiction is Unity. And there could be nothing true except by virtue of the contradiction that is contained in itself." The Book is filled with apparent contradictions which can be resolved only when Ruach makes conscious contact with Neschama in the attainment referred to symbolically as the knowledge and conversation of the holy guardian angel.


                            -----------
                            Also, given the bewildering complexity of Crowley's magical system, seeing it as some kind of personal therapy seems a little jokey.
                            -----------

                            I would not use the term "personal therapy" although it may be that for some. Crowley's magical system is the application of the methods of science to the aims of religion. What then are the aims of religion? As Crowley says in Book 4 Part 2 (MITAP), Chapter XXI: "It is the raising of the complete man in a vertical straight line." It is the remaking of the human self into a wholly divine being. This involves identifying and eliminating all aspects of one's apparent self which are not pure microcosmic reflections of the macrocosmic unity. These imperfect elements of our human self are "the wretched and the weak" which we are to wage war on and destroy utterly. They "feel not" (II.21); they are unreal; they are artifacts of false belief conjured into apparent being by the deluded ego.


                            -----------
                            ...if the point is only suppressing undesired psychological tendencies, wouldn't it be cheaper to take some tranquilisers?
                            -----------

                            The point is knowing the truth about who and what you are with absolute certainty, knowing the true Self, the real essence beneath the many layers of illusion. It is the same goal as that of yoga and all valid spiritual paths. Rather than tranquilisers, one may use "strange drugs" (entheogens, cf. II.22) to catch glimpses of the goal, and one may follow the instructions of Patanjali (Book 4 Part 1) to approach it.
                          • herupakraath
                            ... That s one way to look at it: The Qabala = 74 = War-engine OLMKZ = 74 = War-engine (the five letters attributed to the elements in the Tahuti Key) Perhaps
                            Message 13 of 21 , Sep 4, 2011
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                              richard stratton <pehrose@...> wrote:

                              > Yours was an undeservedly kind response Dale. I very much like what you say. I would only add the Hebrew word for "War engine" is QBL. Thats right! Qabbalah, or the root thereof. Read Ch3 with that in mind and a whole new world of interpretation opens up. Qabbalah destroys the literal shell of the word thus revealing the esoteric. As Key 17 follows Key 16. ALMR

                              That's one way to look at it:

                              The Qabala = 74 = War-engine
                              OLMKZ = 74 = War-engine
                              (the five letters attributed to the elements in the Tahuti Key)

                              Perhaps you are unaware that Aleister Crowley tied the publication of the Book of the Law in with several outbreaks of physical warfare.

                              Here is another way to look at it:

                              World War I = 86 = Hoor-pa-kraat
                              World War II = 93
                              World War III = 100 = Hoor-paar-kraat
                              World War Two = 100 = Hoor-paar-kraat
                              Atomic Bomb = 100 = Hoor-paar-kraat

                              http://www.thelima.org/Key
                            • Jake Stratton-Kent
                              On 2 September 2011 01:42, Church of Gnostic Luminism ... there is equal if not greater value in two alternative strands of thought on that advice: One, that
                              Message 14 of 21 , Sep 6, 2011
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                                On 2 September 2011 01:42, Church of Gnostic Luminism
                                <luminist93@...> wrote:
                                > --- In thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com, Jake Stratton-Kent <jakestrattonkent@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > The exegetical guidelines in Equinox of the Gods is *against* interpretations at odds with the literal sense.
                                > ------------
                                > The bottom line of the Commentary is: "All questions of the Law are to be decided only by appeal to my writings, each for himself." This remains good advice, even as to what this Commentary means.

                                there is equal if not greater value in two alternative strands of
                                thought on that advice:

                                One, that it is simply repressive, boosting the guru's position and
                                inhibiting the likes of Achad (who may have found the Key, but AC
                                didn't need a successor just then). With the rider that exegesis is a
                                legitimate path for any Mystery school regardless.

                                Two, that 'my writings' alludes to those signed the same way (AAFK),
                                thus, solve the riddle by the riddle (same advice as Kaplan gave the
                                Bahir, that is, a qabalistic text must be interpreted by a full
                                reading and comparison of connected parts).

                                Taking it to mean 'by AC's writings' is contradicted by AL, that much
                                of AL would remain inscrutable to him.


                                >
                                > -----------
                                > Then, what is the allegorical 'inner psychological' interpretation of 'As brothers fight ye'?
                                > -----------
                                >
                                > Face the challenges of your spiritual path with courage, strength, and loyalty to the ideals with which you feel close kinship.
                                >

                                the last clause seems rather forced to me, fighting 'as' something and
                                on behalf of or in accord with it are rather different.

                                > Plainly it means thelemites should work together in some cause.
                                > -----------
                                >
                                > Yes, "plainly" it does. But occult literature has many exoteric and esoteric levels of meaning, some of which are not "plain" — their interpretation requires Initiated levels of consciousness.
                                >

                                the plain sense is not contradicted by other levels of meaning, which
                                may be multiple - we also have to agree that a personal psychological
                                process is what initiation means/involves. Fashionable enough when
                                Freud and Jung were novel figures in current thought, but a 'book from
                                eternity' may concern less ephemeral concerns. There is also the
                                matter of what grade AL was dispensed to the aspirant...

                                > BTW the tendencies we are encouraged to suppress (stamp down etc) aren't simply feelings of inadequacy etc but noble virtues in other traditions: Pity, Compassion etc. A macho militaristic caste of emotionless zombies and their equally numb camp followers could easily be implied.
                                > -----------
                                >
                                > Cf. "the dogs of reason" in II.27. Understanding is received from above the abyss of reason. See Liber 418, the 5th Aethyr: "And this is the great Mystery of the Supernals that are beyond the Abyss. For below the Abyss, contradiction is division; but above the Abyss, contradiction is Unity. And there could be nothing true except by virtue of the contradiction that is contained in itself." The Book is filled with apparent contradictions which can be resolved only when Ruach makes conscious contact with Neschama in the attainment referred to symbolically as the knowledge and conversation of the holy guardian angel.

                                easy to say, as mentioned elsewhere qabalah primers are two a penny.

                                > -----------
                                > Also, given the bewildering complexity of Crowley's magical system, seeing it as some kind of personal therapy seems a little jokey.
                                > -----------
                                >
                                > I would not use the term "personal therapy" although it may be that for some.

                                perhaps not the most elegant description, but adequate for discussion.
                                The problem is that we have folks like Regardie suggesting
                                psychotherapy *before* we start in magic (only to find that magic is a
                                comlpex method of - wait for it - psychoanalysis). This brings us back
                                to*when* AL is given the aspirant, which is of course some way into
                                the Tree climbing stuff, when some of these complexes etc. might be
                                assumed to have already been dealt with. Jung is probably cheaper and
                                less prolonged - unusually!

                                >Crowley's magical system is the application of the methods of science to the aims of religion. What then are the aims of religion? As Crowley says in Book 4 Part 2 (MITAP), Chapter XXI: "It is the raising of the complete man in a vertical straight line."

                                it could equally be said to be proving the existence of non-human
                                intelligence, a claim made often enough by the scribe for the text.

                                Also see my PS

                                > -----------
                                > ...if the point is only suppressing undesired psychological tendencies, wouldn't it be cheaper to take some tranquilisers?
                                > -----------
                                >
                                > The point is knowing the truth about who and what you are with absolute certainty, knowing the true Self, the real essence beneath the many layers of illusion. It is the same goal as that of yoga and all valid spiritual paths.

                                so, why not stick to Yoga?
                                Why add Tarot, why add Enochian; why add Freemasonry etc. etc.? As
                                said, this interpretation makes magic sound like an absurdly complex
                                form of psychotherapy.

                                Another point, why also do we have transparently clear non-cryptic
                                records of sex magic for hard cash? Sounds rather sorcerous and
                                non-psychological to me. These are protracted enough we might
                                legitimately wonder why he never thought of analysing the compulsion
                                to perform such if that was what magic meant to him in his saner
                                moments?

                                If the answer is 'don't do as AC did, do as he told you' then any
                                reasonable soul might respectfully decline the invitation and do
                                neither!

                                Either way, to take a historical analogy, the practically oriented
                                Theurgy of Iamblichus upset some purely contemplative Neoplatonists
                                despite sharing the same lofty goal. Grud know's what they'd have
                                made of the AA curriculum and its GD add ons. There may be a purely
                                psychological process of integration and self knowledge *buried* in
                                there, but boy there is a lot of extraneous junk *if* that is all
                                that is implied.

                                > Rather than tranquilisers, one may use "strange drugs" (entheogens, cf. II.22) to catch glimpses of the goal, and one may follow the instructions of Patanjali (Book 4 Part 1) to approach it.

                                guess this explains why Thelemites are such well adjusted and tolerant folks.

                                ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

                                PS For me the method of science - aside from being a hip slogan in the
                                'rational' age - might at least *include* an exhaustive historical
                                study of magic by the supposedly 'initiated' and superior school
                                making such a claim. By this reading it is absurd to restrict
                                ourselves to studying Crowley (his porno poetry, his autobiography,
                                etc.). Especially while there are so very few Thelemic studies of
                                magic's origins, practice and philosophy via 'the hard headed
                                materialist science of history'. By neglecting this Thelema has
                                reduced itself to a backwater of contemporary occultism, where it had
                                the potential to be a vanguard.


                                ALWays

                                Jake

                                http://www.underworld-apothecary.com/
                              • Jake Stratton-Kent
                                ... these rules are the closest thing we have to the foundation of an exegetical system, and thus among the more valuable parts of his legacy. ... you may
                                Message 15 of 21 , Sep 6, 2011
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                                  On 1 September 2011 21:39, richard stratton <pehrose@...> wrote:
                                  > Dear Jake,
                                  >    Thank you for your kind and considered response. Playing the D.A. is
                                  > often, if not always, of benefit to open discussion. I should simply like to
                                  > address your first point regarding the guidelines in E of G.
                                  >     In his conclusion to the principles of Exegesis #3 A.C. states: "Where
                                  > the text is simple, straightforward English, I shall not seek, or allow, any
                                  > interpretation at variance with it." Though the word "literal" is not used
                                  > here, "simple, straightforward English", is good enough for me. However, he
                                  > goes on to say: "I may admit a Qabalistic or cryptographic secondary meaning
                                  > when such confirms, amplifies, deepens, intensifies, or clarifies the
                                  > obvious common-sense significance; but only if it be part of the general
                                  > plan of the "latent light" and self-proven by abundant witness." This seems
                                  > to indicate A.C. is not *against* a secondary meaning, even for plainly
                                  > literal parts of the text. What do you think about this?

                                  these 'rules' are the closest thing we have to the foundation of an
                                  exegetical system, and thus among the more valuable parts of his
                                  legacy.


                                  >     As to what he will "admit"; under point 6. Wherever- a. "The words of
                                  > the text are obscure in themselves." This pretty much covers the phrase
                                  > "war-engine", at least for me. And f. "The use of capital letters present
                                  > peculiarities." It seem peculiar to me in III/3 both the word "War" and
                                  > "Vengeance" are capitalized! Of course VV is Vau spelled in full. I'm sure
                                  > you are quite aware of the significance of that letter in Qabalah.
                                  >    The above seems to pretty well support a secondary meaning of the word
                                  > "War", and the phrase "war-engine" in the text. I very much look forward to
                                  > you response.

                                  you may have more worked out than I have seen, and I shall assume that you do.
                                  Plainly "war-engine" might indicate 'qobel' (battering ram) and thus
                                  war-engine. War by itself however would require some other indicator.
                                  There remains the literal sense of a collective struggle, and of
                                  solidarity in the process.

                                  There is of course the possibility that the qabalistic 'war engine'
                                  implied is the order & value of the English alphabet et al. Indeed I
                                  recall a gematria calculator bearing this very name. This need not
                                  contradict measured interpretations obtained via Hebrew (or even
                                  bilingual wordplay like Nuit = night in French); quite the contrary,
                                  since the bottom line has to be indicators within the text where
                                  methods such as these are implied. A coherent exegetical standard is
                                  plainly a good thing for Thelema to evolve for itself.

                                  ALWays

                                  Jake

                                  http://www.underworld-apothecary.com/
                                • richard stratton
                                  Dear Jake, Thanks again for responding. I agree with you regarding the exegetical rules A.C. lays down. Thus the reason I refer and quote them. Yes QBL,
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Sep 6, 2011
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                                    Dear Jake,

                                    Thanks again for responding. I agree with you regarding the exegetical
                                    rules A.C. lays down. Thus the reason I refer and quote them.

                                    Yes QBL, battering ram. I have also read considered speculations the machine
                                    in question is a catapult! I find both images of equal

                                    interest.

                                    Regarding the word "war" in L.L. If I am not mistaken, all instances of
                                    its occurrence are in Ch3, its appearance in v.3 is the only

                                    time it is capitalized; improperly . Following A.C.'s principals of exegesis
                                    this seems a logical invitation towards a deeper,

                                    secondary meaning. And, of course, as you've pointed out in your own
                                    examples, a straight-forward meaning need not be

                                    abandoned.

                                    Concerning III/47, I suspect there may be some real truth to that,
                                    especially if one stays within the perimeters of basic and

                                    established qabbalistic exegesis. That is, to me, the "war-engine". I guess
                                    I should mention my own working out of this key verse has

                                    nothing to do with the creation of an English qabbalah. Truthfully, not one
                                    of the gemutria like approaches I've seen is convincing.

                                    I know you are a busy man, so thank you again Jake, for your kind and
                                    thoughtful reply.


                                    My kindest regards . . .Richard Stratton.


                                    On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 2:04 AM, Jake Stratton-Kent <
                                    jakestrattonkent@...> wrote:

                                    > **
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On 1 September 2011 21:39, richard stratton <pehrose@...> wrote:
                                    > > Dear Jake,
                                    > > Thank you for your kind and considered response. Playing the D.A. is
                                    > > often, if not always, of benefit to open discussion. I should simply like
                                    > to
                                    > > address your first point regarding the guidelines in E of G.
                                    > > In his conclusion to the principles of Exegesis #3 A.C. states:
                                    > "Where
                                    > > the text is simple, straightforward English, I shall not seek, or allow,
                                    > any
                                    > > interpretation at variance with it." Though the word "literal" is not
                                    > used
                                    > > here, "simple, straightforward English", is good enough for me. However,
                                    > he
                                    > > goes on to say: "I may admit a Qabalistic or cryptographic secondary
                                    > meaning
                                    > > when such confirms, amplifies, deepens, intensifies, or clarifies the
                                    > > obvious common-sense significance; but only if it be part of the general
                                    > > plan of the "latent light" and self-proven by abundant witness." This
                                    > seems
                                    > > to indicate A.C. is not *against* a secondary meaning, even for plainly
                                    > > literal parts of the text. What do you think about this?
                                    >
                                    > these 'rules' are the closest thing we have to the foundation of an
                                    > exegetical system, and thus among the more valuable parts of his
                                    > legacy.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > As to what he will "admit"; under point 6. Wherever- a. "The words of
                                    > > the text are obscure in themselves." This pretty much covers the phrase
                                    > > "war-engine", at least for me. And f. "The use of capital letters present
                                    > > peculiarities." It seem peculiar to me in III/3 both the word "War" and
                                    > > "Vengeance" are capitalized! Of course VV is Vau spelled in full. I'm
                                    > sure
                                    > > you are quite aware of the significance of that letter in Qabalah.
                                    > > The above seems to pretty well support a secondary meaning of the word
                                    > > "War", and the phrase "war-engine" in the text. I very much look forward
                                    > to
                                    > > you response.
                                    >
                                    > you may have more worked out than I have seen, and I shall assume that you
                                    > do.
                                    > Plainly "war-engine" might indicate 'qobel' (battering ram) and thus
                                    > war-engine. War by itself however would require some other indicator.
                                    > There remains the literal sense of a collective struggle, and of
                                    > solidarity in the process.
                                    >
                                    > There is of course the possibility that the qabalistic 'war engine'
                                    > implied is the order & value of the English alphabet et al. Indeed I
                                    > recall a gematria calculator bearing this very name. This need not
                                    > contradict measured interpretations obtained via Hebrew (or even
                                    > bilingual wordplay like Nuit = night in French); quite the contrary,
                                    > since the bottom line has to be indicators within the text where
                                    > methods such as these are implied. A coherent exegetical standard is
                                    > plainly a good thing for Thelema to evolve for itself.
                                    >
                                    > ALWays
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Jake
                                    >
                                    > http://www.underworld-apothecary.com/
                                    >
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Church of Gnostic Luminism
                                    ... As I see it Crowley s system can be understood as a Western equivalent to Yoga. It is a systematic method of attaining self realization. In order to do
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Sep 7, 2011
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                                      --- In thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com, Jake Stratton-Kent <jakestrattonkent@...> wrote:

                                      > so, why not stick to Yoga?

                                      As I see it Crowley's system can be understood as a Western equivalent to Yoga. It is a systematic method of attaining self realization. In order to do what you will, you need to learn what your will truly is, which requires the perspective of Samadhi.


                                      > Why add Tarot, why add Enochian; why add Freemasonry etc. etc.?

                                      These are all mnemonic devices designed to aid this process.


                                      > Another point, why also do we have transparently clear
                                      > non-cryptic records of sex magic for hard cash?

                                      Works of thaumaturgy are lawful only to the extent that they are required to support the central theurgic task.
                                    • starc@
                                      FWIW, war-engine by eq11 = Scarlet Woman Crowned Child Baphomet Emperor the Beast hmmm...
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Oct 6, 2011
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                                        FWIW,

                                        war-engine by eq11 =

                                        Scarlet Woman
                                        Crowned Child
                                        Baphomet
                                        Emperor
                                        the Beast

                                        hmmm...


                                        On 09/06/2011 02:57 AM, richard stratton wrote:
                                        > Dear Jake,
                                        >
                                        > Thanks again for responding. I agree with you regarding the exegetical
                                        > rules A.C. lays down. Thus the reason I refer and quote them.
                                        >
                                        > Yes QBL, battering ram. I have also read considered speculations the machine
                                        > in question is a catapult! I find both images of equal
                                        >
                                        > interest.
                                        >
                                        > Regarding the word "war" in L.L. If I am not mistaken, all instances of
                                        > its occurrence are in Ch3, its appearance in v.3 is the only
                                        >
                                        > time it is capitalized; improperly . Following A.C.'s principals of exegesis
                                        > this seems a logical invitation towards a deeper,
                                        >
                                        > secondary meaning. And, of course, as you've pointed out in your own
                                        > examples, a straight-forward meaning need not be
                                        >
                                        > abandoned.
                                        >
                                        > Concerning III/47, I suspect there may be some real truth to that,
                                        > especially if one stays within the perimeters of basic and
                                        >
                                        > established qabbalistic exegesis. That is, to me, the "war-engine". I guess
                                        > I should mention my own working out of this key verse has
                                        >
                                        > nothing to do with the creation of an English qabbalah. Truthfully, not one
                                        > of the gemutria like approaches I've seen is convincing.
                                        >
                                        > I know you are a busy man, so thank you again Jake, for your kind and
                                        > thoughtful reply.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > My kindest regards . . .Richard Stratton.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 2:04 AM, Jake Stratton-Kent<
                                        > jakestrattonkent@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >> **
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> On 1 September 2011 21:39, richard stratton<pehrose@...> wrote:
                                        >>> Dear Jake,
                                        >>> Thank you for your kind and considered response. Playing the D.A. is
                                        >>> often, if not always, of benefit to open discussion. I should simply like
                                        >> to
                                        >>> address your first point regarding the guidelines in E of G.
                                        >>> In his conclusion to the principles of Exegesis #3 A.C. states:
                                        >> "Where
                                        >>> the text is simple, straightforward English, I shall not seek, or allow,
                                        >> any
                                        >>> interpretation at variance with it." Though the word "literal" is not
                                        >> used
                                        >>> here, "simple, straightforward English", is good enough for me. However,
                                        >> he
                                        >>> goes on to say: "I may admit a Qabalistic or cryptographic secondary
                                        >> meaning
                                        >>> when such confirms, amplifies, deepens, intensifies, or clarifies the
                                        >>> obvious common-sense significance; but only if it be part of the general
                                        >>> plan of the "latent light" and self-proven by abundant witness." This
                                        >> seems
                                        >>> to indicate A.C. is not *against* a secondary meaning, even for plainly
                                        >>> literal parts of the text. What do you think about this?
                                        >>
                                        >> these 'rules' are the closest thing we have to the foundation of an
                                        >> exegetical system, and thus among the more valuable parts of his
                                        >> legacy.
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>> As to what he will "admit"; under point 6. Wherever- a. "The words of
                                        >>> the text are obscure in themselves." This pretty much covers the phrase
                                        >>> "war-engine", at least for me. And f. "The use of capital letters present
                                        >>> peculiarities." It seem peculiar to me in III/3 both the word "War" and
                                        >>> "Vengeance" are capitalized! Of course VV is Vau spelled in full. I'm
                                        >> sure
                                        >>> you are quite aware of the significance of that letter in Qabalah.
                                        >>> The above seems to pretty well support a secondary meaning of the word
                                        >>> "War", and the phrase "war-engine" in the text. I very much look forward
                                        >> to
                                        >>> you response.
                                        >>
                                        >> you may have more worked out than I have seen, and I shall assume that you
                                        >> do.
                                        >> Plainly "war-engine" might indicate 'qobel' (battering ram) and thus
                                        >> war-engine. War by itself however would require some other indicator.
                                        >> There remains the literal sense of a collective struggle, and of
                                        >> solidarity in the process.
                                        >>
                                        >> There is of course the possibility that the qabalistic 'war engine'
                                        >> implied is the order& value of the English alphabet et al. Indeed I
                                        >> recall a gematria calculator bearing this very name. This need not
                                        >> contradict measured interpretations obtained via Hebrew (or even
                                        >> bilingual wordplay like Nuit = night in French); quite the contrary,
                                        >> since the bottom line has to be indicators within the text where
                                        >> methods such as these are implied. A coherent exegetical standard is
                                        >> plainly a good thing for Thelema to evolve for itself.
                                        >>
                                        >> ALWays
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> Jake
                                        >>
                                        >> http://www.underworld-apothecary.com/
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --------------------------------
                                      • nigris (333)
                                        5011101911 e.v. KY ... TO: thesonofthebeast : I think pacifism and Thelema are perfectly compatible. once one specializes to the
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Oct 19, 2011
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                                          5011101911 e.v. KY
                                          --------------------
                                          TO: thesonofthebeast <thesonofthebeast@...>:

                                          I think pacifism and Thelema are perfectly compatible. once one specializes to the point of ridiculous cultism, one effectively self-disempowers and cannot be held accountable for anything any longer (opting out of society).

                                          your method of apology isn't intelligent. It duplicates all of the problems that extensive cults have from which those who are coming to Thelema are running away. it's interesting that you focussed so much on power while you are effectively disempowering yourself. there's a direct relationship here, i'm guessing.

                                          --------------------
                                          TO: Jake (Devils advocaat)

                                          Thelemic prophets are a big deal to themselves, and of variable intensity, celebrity, and notoriety elsewise. there is no necessary dictum in the content or implication of any Thelemite's scripture. you pull yourself up by your own bootstraps under the tutelage and superstructure of a prophet or you become one yourself and cease making futile generalizations about what any scribble means in some cosmic sense.

                                          as you yourself said ("The prophet's guidance in exegesis is discreetly ignored while he and his system remain iconic in other respects"), cultists ought to appeal to the writings of the Master (fetch the marrow of this), thus:

                                          "Fight! Fight like gentlemen, without malice, because fighting is the best game in the world, and love the second best! Don't slander your enemy, as the newspapers would have you do; just kill him, and then bury him with honour. Don't keep crying 'Foul' like a fifth-rate pugilist. Don't boast! Don't squeal! If you're down, get up and hit him again! Fights of that sort make fast friends.

                                          "There is perhaps a magical second-meaning in this verse, a reference to the Ritual of which we find hints in the legend of Cain and Abel, Esau and Jacob, Set and Osiris, et cetera. The "Elder Brother" within us, the Silent Self, must slay the younger brother, the conscious self, and he must be raised again incorruptible."

                                          -- http://www.luckymojo.com/crowley/220-commentaries.html

                                          > ...if the point {of Crowley's magical system} is only suppressing
                                          > undesired psychological tendencies, wouldn't it be cheaper to
                                          > take some tranquilisers?

                                          this and the next generalization are simply too blatant to be useful. for any particular aspirant the tool of the Lawbook might suffice to gain ground on the Great Work through the course of a particular stage or segment, and yet become a tomb or cul de sac from which she must crawl if she wants to continue to succeed (and suck eggs).

                                          as for whys and wherefores, there are more than 75 instances of the term 'because' in the Commentaries last i checked, despite the rumours of this word's untimely death. image, ecstasy, entertainment constitute obvious optional detours on the road to mystical glory. it wasn't what Baphomet left behind him but what fun he had on the road that constituted the import to the prophet. understanding? a big fat booby prize. he sat there holding his ball with a perplexed look.

                                          btw, he *was* anonymous, he just cloaked that in hubris and notoriety. ;)
                                          --------------------
                                          (3) TO: Jake

                                          arguments by design of composite universal kwablahblahs encased in the automatic writing from a Beast seem strained. let those of quick and shining brilliance delve the innards of the nearest orangutan if that be their wont, and they have the means whereby to best the ape and secure his gut.

                                          the reason why not to stick to yoga is because the Master didn't. the motivation for the addition of Tarot probably relates to Bohemians, Thoth, and the Comte de Melet, not to mention the contrivances of Constant. Enochian was the endearment of Dee and Mathers. its thematic Biblical placation not only suggest demonic enterprises but the ascendancy to the godhead. get out that Dee translation of the Necronomicon while you're at it. Freemasonry? Old Crowley put down that petard before he had himself hoist upon it in the wake of Reuss. it was enough to put on kilts and pretend to chieftainship.

                                          the span of sex magic is completely misinterpreted, though it was mapped by those such as i in the last decade or two in preparation for expository rhetoric. since the AEonic Word is FUCK, this explains the clarity of the records.

                                          alas, you have it aright when you speak of hip slogans and sciences dealing with New Age esoterix. Thelema is not alone in this, so don't fault it too heavily, as it may yet recover with but a few blows to the head(s) (e.g. use Olav('s) Hammer!). the warty Crowley never had it in him to be the face of a vanguard. he was always on the downslope looking up, and never quite legitimate enough to Pollitt off.

                                          --------------------
                                          (4) TO: Jake

                                          the best exegesis in the world is of no account without a sufficient target of analysis. it is an over-estimation that religious documents actually qualify for this, though mystics attempt to subject them to coarse analysis regardless. get something poetic and truly meaty and the confusion will become too daunting for most involved in the Work of the Occident. contrast this with ancient Chinese or the Fortunes of Faust, or Art of Memory, and you'll have pieces to master. abandon all hope ye Thelema who enter here. for ye shall never evolve, only reform to each individual taking you up. make your scripture and be thine own prophet. exegete be thou and brighter still the revelation out of thine own corpus. wallowing in the remains of others tends to produce disease.

                                          --------------------
                                          (5) TO: Church of Gnostic Luminism <luminist93@...>

                                          you do what you will in every moment, though you may not know of it at the time. no special perspectives are required to do that, other than to put oneself full-force into that herve and verve. requiring reductions of august mystical states like a rarefaction and specialty discloses no more quickly the significance of self-realization, even by assault.

                                          there is no central theurgic task outside certain opinionated and biased gods.

                                          Zazas Zazas Nasatanada Zazas!

                                          333
                                        • Jake Stratton-Kent
                                          On 19 October 2011 11:45, nigris (333) quoted Fat Eddie thusly: Fight! Fight like gentlemen, without malice, because fighting is the
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Oct 19, 2011
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                                            On 19 October 2011 11:45, nigris (333) <nagasiva@...> quoted
                                            Fat Eddie thusly:

                                            "Fight! Fight like gentlemen, without malice, because fighting is the
                                            best game in the world, and love the second best! Don't slander your
                                            enemy, as the newspapers would have you do; just kill him, and then
                                            bury him with honour. Don't keep crying 'Foul' like a fifth-rate
                                            pugilist. Don't boast! Don't squeal! If you're down, get up and hit
                                            him again! Fights of that sort make fast friends."

                                            aside from - allegedly - shooting some dacoits, Crowley's pugilistic
                                            record is rather slim.

                                            Its very doubtful AC had any relevant experience on which to base this
                                            'manly' statement, which has the ring of Victorian boys school BS.
                                            Perhaps he was having a Kipling moment?

                                            as for my priorities, I'd sooner fuck than fight, and sooner fight than run.

                                            ALWays

                                            Jake

                                            http://www.underworld-apothecary.com/
                                          • nigris (333)
                                            50111019 e.v. KY ... it is claimed that this is not Crowley s text, and therefore by this logic we should not expect him to have had anything to base it upon.
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Oct 19, 2011
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                                              50111019 e.v. KY

                                              Jake Stratton-Kent responded to Fat Eddie thusly:
                                              > aside from - allegedly - shooting some dacoits, Crowley's pugilistic
                                              > record is rather slim.
                                              >
                                              > Its very doubtful AC had any relevant experience on which to base this
                                              > 'manly' statement, which has the ring of Victorian boys school BS.
                                              > Perhaps he was having a Kipling moment?

                                              it is claimed that this is not Crowley's text, and therefore by this logic we should not expect him to have had anything to base it upon. at least this was how he crafted his description of it once deciding that it wasn't actually automatic writing after all and digging it out of his shunted notebooks.

                                              secondarily, i think our original poster had something more relevant in mind for supporting his War effort: a very reasonable citation of the 3rd portion of Crowley's Lawbook. y'all covered some of the gematria with war-engine or its variants. I did appreciate the comment also from herupakraath regarding its publication timing. I have wondered whether there was some kind of millenarian streak to the Plymouth Brethren, though i gather they didn't go in for apocalyptics. a comparison and contrast between Plymouth Brethren cosmology and ideology and Crowleyan Thelema might prove illuminating.

                                              > as for my priorities, I'd sooner fuck than fight, and sooner fight than run.

                                              if tying it to the man, he did also make reference to the arts of drinking and whatever, and i am sure there was emphasis placed upon British gentlemanly pursuits (esp. of a poet, mountain climber, and rouguish inheritor with some actual breeding, by their assessment). these all are quite distant from me, so i hesitate to evaluate them too strongly.

                                              my priorities in comparison are similar, though being of a physical character more suited to field or escape, and *not* for pugilistic pursuits (ouch!), i've chosen to flee and live to fuck another day. ;)

                                              333
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