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Member of Thelema?

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  • Alla Ra Adam
    One can call anything Thelema and then claim membership. Is it something one joins? Or Comprehends?
    Message 1 of 4 , May 29, 2009
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      One can call anything Thelema and then claim membership. Is it something one joins? Or Comprehends?
    • 333
      Alla Alla Axen Free welcome back, Frater Adam, ... not convincingly. that s part of what we re being challenged to do here. I put up a label for a type of
      Message 2 of 4 , May 29, 2009
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        Alla Alla Axen Free

        welcome back, Frater Adam,

        "Alla Ra Adam" <allaraadam@...>:
        > One can call anything Thelema

        not convincingly. that's part of what we're being
        challenged to do here. I put up a label for a type
        of Yeast Product called 'Thelemite' and yet i don't
        expect that people will go out and try to buy it. ;)

        it is patently obvious that modern occult and
        religious expression owes its inception of the
        use of the term 'Thelema' to the existence of
        Edward Alexander 'Aleister' Crowley and his
        interests and the cults in his wake, and yet this
        doesn't mean that we cannot extrapolate from the
        genre of the publishing of the times (from within
        the New Thought arena and from such sources such
        Frank Channing Haddock and his "Power of Will",
        "Power of Success" and "The Culture of Courage")
        to enlarge the 'envelope' of Thelema beyond the
        Crowleyan Creed. even Rabelaisian, Schopenhaueran,
        and Fichtean correlates may be derived from the
        writings of the Beast himself.

        obviously the ambiguity of the referent begins
        to play havoc with contentions and questions
        that you ask below:

        > and then claim membership.

        only if that new thing *has* members. you seem to
        be restricting your notions of it to something
        social, or least criticizing the social aspects
        of what Thelema includes. insofar as Thelema is
        actually a *social 'Current'*, one might actually
        be a 'member' in an unofficial sense, though you
        seem to want to criticize this as ridiculous.

        there are organizations which use the term,
        such as the Temple of Thelema, Order of Thelema,
        College of Thelema, Abbey of Thelema, et al,
        that often do have members and memberships.
        there are also many ostensible (at least on
        their face) 'Thelemic' things, such as the
        Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn, and the
        Order of Thelemic Knights, and more general
        categories such as 'Thelemic mysticism' and
        'Thelemic art', etc., etc., all of which may
        at least have members in a participatory sense.

        > Is it something one joins?

        it can be, that much is obvious. at LEAST as
        part of identification one may join a thing
        which purports to be 'Thelemic' and therefore
        one may begin to identify with Thelema sufficient
        to talk about oneself as 'Thelemite' or 'Thelemic'
        accordingly. is this wrong? if so, why?

        if a Current, can't one join it? the 93 Current?
        do we get Membership Cards from the Central Office?

        > Or Comprehends?

        all of it might be comprehended in an ordinary
        sense. it is not completely clear to what you
        may be referring when writing about 'Comprehending'
        a thing in a grandiose sense. perhaps this is you
        talking about 'finding one's true will and then
        following it out', and thus in some sense
        circumscribing one's orbit in a self-possessed
        sense, 'Comprehending thelema', the will, as
        compared with simply becoming one of a mob of
        grunting "Thelemites" or "Thelemic" cultists.

        thanks for the question.

        333
      • Alla Ra Adam
        ... Before I wander again into the starry night I will very briefly address your notions of Thelema stated here. You are confusing the stroke of
        Message 3 of 4 , May 30, 2009
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          <snip>

          Alla Ra Adam:
          > > and then claim membership.

          333:
          > only if that new thing *has* members. you seem to
          > be restricting your notions of it to something
          > social, or least criticizing the social aspects
          > of what Thelema includes. insofar as Thelema is
          > actually a *social 'Current'*, one might actually
          > be a 'member' in an unofficial sense, though you
          > seem to want to criticize this as ridiculous.

          <snip>

          Before I wander again into the starry night I will very briefly address your notions of Thelema stated here. You are confusing the stroke of a brush with the point of a painting. All social manifestations of Thelema are only hints... refractions upon a broken surface of the light that emanates from a single source. THELEMA proper is Majik, the art of living majestically, that results in evidential phenomena. It is "whatever works", well beyond whatever works for you, to what makes a man king in his endeavors and the world. Success in understanding it is easy to measure, because success in all things essential to species weir follows.

          alla1331
          http://epiphany3.com



          [MODERATOR removed unnecessary quoted text and clarified quotation. please see our MMM.]
        • 333
          good to have you back, Alla Ra Adam. ... my vision is broader than for what you are allowing. my impression is that Thelema isn t so neatly boxed and presented
          Message 4 of 4 , May 31, 2009
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            good to have you back, Alla Ra Adam.

            333 regarding Thelema and its character:
            > > only if that new thing *has* members. you seem to
            > > be restricting your notions of it to something
            > > social, or least criticizing the social aspects
            > > of what Thelema includes. insofar as Thelema is
            > > actually a *social 'Current'*, one might actually
            > > be a 'member' in an unofficial sense, though you
            > > seem to want to criticize this as ridiculous.

            "Alla Ra Adam" <allaraadam@...>:
            > ...You are confusing the stroke of a brush with the
            > point of a painting.

            my vision is broader than for what you are allowing.
            my impression is that Thelema isn't so neatly boxed
            and presented as may at first be attempted.

            > All social manifestations of
            > Thelema are only hints... refractions upon a broken
            > surface of the light that emanates from a single source.

            to an extent i would agree, and i would suggest that this
            source is the human being, volition its informing aspect.

            > THELEMA proper is Majik, the art of living majestically,
            > that results in evidential phenomena.

            my impression is that magic of a mystical sense (which is
            what i think Crowley had in mind with his Magick) combines
            Will (in its most exalted sense) and Love (in its most
            exalted sense) in a dynamic and fluctuating equipoise.

            this dynamic of relation is one which i have, quite aside
            from any study of Crowley, learned to equate with polarized
            and alchemical developments (one i have learned to call
            'neo-tantra' and that i see related to Chinese elements
            with attention to their Yin and Yang poles). one might
            say (taking for a guide the Smith-Waite Tarot) that the
            Magus and Two of Disks share important elements along
            these lines yet differ as to their static/dynamic
            and numerical parameters (the Magus in readystate
            manages all the elements, whereas the figure in the Two
            juggles 2 poles dynamically what is shown artfully as a
            constant relation and supreme success in Temperance).

            > It is "whatever works", well beyond whatever works for you,
            > to what makes a man king in his endeavors and the world.
            > Success in understanding it is easy to measure, because
            > success in all things essential to species weir follows.

            "Success is your proof...." does seem to apply to the science
            and art which Magick is supposed. it is arguably a completely
            personal affair, and therefore resists institutionalization.

            333
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