tom chaudoin <taammuz@...> wrote:
> IF theurgic systems are worthwhile at all, then they should lead to
> the development and the catalytic 'birth' of awarenesses and
> abilities beyond the ken of ordinary humans.
> What awarenesses and abilitiies, in general?:
> 1. Awareness of consciousness and conscious entities beyond the
A reasonable expectation given theurgy consists of the invocation of
gods, and one that I have experienced personally.
> 2. Telepathy.(Direct mental communication, Telepathic manipulation
and overwhelm of other conscious beings.)
Telepathy is also a realistic expectation based on my experience.
> 3. Telekinesis (power of flight/levitation, power to manipulate
matter with thought; power to manipulate energy with thought)
I see this one largely as myth, more likely inspired by fiction than
fact. I do know of one exception, an example I was involved with, but
the manipulation was not by a human per say, but rather the forces he
> 4. Enhanced physical abilities. (strength; speed; physical senses)
How can such enhancements be measured? Surely we are not to expect
someone who is physically unfit to become an extraordinary athlete by
exposure to theurgic practices alone, and without typical physical
training. If physical training is involved, how is its effect to be
distinguished from the effects of theurgy?
> 5. Freedom from accidents, freedom from disease and poverty or
possibly aging or the traumatic effects of aging and death.
I could agree on the chances of a prolonged lifespan through exposure
to divine presence, but it is impossible to know the ultimate cause of
prolonged life. My father was a heavy drinker, a heavy smoker, never
exercised, and ate all the wrong foods, but nonetheless outlived all
but one of his siblings that shared none of his bad habits. Lifespan
is often a true mystery that defies reason.
> We could elaborate further about what's possible, but, the bottom >
line I maintain is if theurgic systems DON'T result in the creation >
of these human abilities, then they are largely superfluous and
> result in little more than secular cult-think channelled into a
> small group of individual and group role-playing.
Someone on this forum once told me that the Qabala is a
highly-evolved, precise system of the occult; I think his perspective
if far off the mark in terms of truth. Magical alphabets are a means
to an end, and nothing more, but despite the fact, Thelema finds
itself bound up in the religious superstitions than accompany using
religious symbolism as a magical alphabet, so I can appreciate your
point of view, but I also disagree with it to an extent. The process
of adoration has little if anything to do with the volitional
acquisition of power, yet it is the core principle of theurgy.
> If they DO result in these abilities, then, they represent vital
> endroads into human ability which ought to be exposed to as many
> folks as possible.
The expansion of human abilities through theurgic practices is an
unrealistic expectation for the masses; what the world at large needs
answered is the most pressing question: Are we alone in the Universe?
Science has failed to answer the question, and it may be that the only
means for establishing contact with other species in the Universe in
through magick and religion.
> >Determining the ultimate motives of superhuman intelligence is
> >currently at the bottom of the list of priorities; first it must be
> >determined if they exist at all, and in the case of Aiwass, if he >
>does >exist, it may be a matter of choosing mystery-stew over
> >starvation,meaning interaction with a superhuman consciousness of >
>any degree is a step closer to divinity than being saddled with
> >contemporary religion.
> I couldn't disagree more, determining the motivations of such beings
> ought to be paramount, given the apparent amount of direct influence
> such beings have on the human condition and human will.
The only way to determine such motives is by asking, and if the reply
is dishonest, what then? Judging by the divisive effect the mostr
popular religions have had on the world, the rules of cause and effect
demands the gods of polular religion either do not exist, or have been
deceptive in presentinng themselves to mankind.
The guidelines set forth by western ceremonial magicians would have us
believe that both gods and demons must conform to a set of rules
created by man, a conception that only carries weight if the forces in
the Universe are merely manifestations within human consciousness, as
opposed to existing independently of mankind. If the forces men
perceive as divine or evil do exist outside of us, then we are most
likely bound (or unbound) by rules they understand better than we do.
> Also, the confined thinking of contemporary religion can lead to
> similar types of fanaticism along the lines of 'there can be only
> one cipher solution to Liber AL'. The reality is, a being such as
> Aiwass, may have consciousness of a higher dimensional nature and
> thus understand math on a scale that is unimaginalble by even the
> most gifted human mathemetician. From such a higher dimensional
> perch, such a being could author MULTIPLE SOLUTIONS, all of which
> are completely upheld by tautological number theorems within the
"A being such as Aiwass"--Do we know what type of being Aiwass is?
Crowley theorized in-depth on the matter, but failed to establish any
hard facts on the matter. You fantasize about higher math that is
unimaginable, when we have yet to see any impressive math that *is*
imaginable. Case in point, it would be quite easy to create several
sentences, paragraphs, or verses in a row that exhibit gematria totals
that are either the same, or consist of prime numbers, two easy
methods that could be used to encode evidence of gematria programming
in a text, using any gematria system, but we have yet to see that, or
something similar. A good example is the ALW system, which causes
three different verses to enumerate to 418; since the possibility
exists for creating concurrent verse totals through gematria, why not
place all three of those verses in a row, and if Aiwass can create
three verse in a row that enumerate to 418, why not create ten of them
and drive the point home?
The problem is not with Aiwass, or with critics such as myself: the
problem is in the belief that through a few simple actions the scope
and nature of the Book of the Law can be revealed. Has it occurred to
you that the process of counting forward eleven letters within the
English alphabet is so simple an act that almost anyone could have
conceived of doing it at any point in the last 100 years? If such a
method were the correct approach to finding the English gematria
system predicted, how would Aiwass keep someone not intended to
discover it from doing so? Does Aiwass have the power to interact with
virtually every person drawn to the ciphers of the book?
A more likely scenario is Aiwass would predict or perhaps influence
someone to find the English gematria system through an extraordinary
process that most people could not achieve.
Despite my criticism, your points are well taken, and my next area of
research may be along the lines of what you and others have imagined,
but first things first.
> Consider if you will the idea that such an implant would tailor >
itself to each individual seeker's intellect, producing a 'key'
> which is more the result of the practitioner's intellect than it is
> of a 'prater-human intelligence', but the data delivered is being
> 'informed' so to speak, by the structure of the implant.
Most successful research and achievement is the product of imaginative
thinking, so kudos to you in that respect, but steps must be taken
before leaps and bounds are seen--food for thought.
> I'm happy to examine your data when you do author a fuller
> exposition of it. However, unless it drastically results in the
> creation of human ability, I still have to regard it as a type of
> 'brand loyalty'.
I suggest abandoning any preconceptions, the Devil is always in the
> I also continue to hold your militations against these other systems
> highly suspect, however, we all have been very interested for some >
time now about the software enginery you have crafted. Joel Love
> understands this kind of authorship very well and I believe a
> collaboration between the two of you could reveal some strange and >
very useful fruit.
There is no criticism aimed at ordinal gematria systems by me that is
not true. Sometime this week the process of showing my recent work
will begin. Thanks for your interest, I hope my work will be of some
value to you and others.