- From: Aryobrand ... Hey if you wish to be a fanatical Crowleyite then go ahead, if we cant riff on an idea interpreting what weMessage 1 of 8 , Mar 27 9:44 AMView SourceFrom: "Aryobrand" <destroy_the_oto@...>
> ...The only portion of Liber 418 inHey if you wish to be a fanatical Crowleyite then go ahead, if we cant riff
> Class A is the section giving instructions on the Ritual for the
> Knowledge and Conversation of the H.G.A. in, I think, 8th Aethyr
> (Sorry my copy is packed.) Nothing else is Class A. However,
> whether 666's descriptions are in Class A or Class F is immaterial
> to the FACTS of the matter :)
> You seem to place great value in the words of Frater Achad. Do you
> also agree with his 'tz Cha'im diagram as well? <:|
> Achad's entire problem with his Tree of Life diagram was that he
> thought these Sephiroth and paths were INTELLECTUAL ideas ONLY, not
> symbols of actual facts within your spirit body (Macropros. too)!!!
> The same analogy can hold here as well. The Three Schools of Magick
> are actual facts within the spirit realms. The geography or layout
> of the land, if you will. Do these represent physical organizations
> of men and women? Soror Meral (Phyllis Seckler) always believed
> that there HAD to be a physical external organization, with by-laws
> and/or exams, etc. This merely opens up a further question, I
> think. ;)
> As with ANY system of symbolism, these either coincide with the way
> things are or they don't. If the particular system you're
> investigating is based upon a false premise, all of the cleaning-out
> ("ausputzung" Also sprach Nietzsche der Antichrist) of that system
> will never make it an efficiently working system. If the temples
> are founded on shaky foundations, tear them down!!! Lend a
> hand . . .
> IMO I think you may suffer from the same problem as Frater Achad
> did! You state in your reply
> > What I wrote was a speculative essay about the nature of the three
> > based upon an entirely different literary interpretation of them.
> "What I wrote was a SPECULATIVE essay about the nature of the three
> schools BASED UPON an entirely different LITERARY INTERPRETATION of
> them." (Capitals are mine, as well as capitols) I think this
> couldn't state the case more clearly! :)
> rockout93 was right on the money in his posting when he said
> > > do a little
> > > more research (even a very little!) before writing an essay
> > > matters you don't understand.
> I think you would do well to check the ingredients of your
> > kernel of gnosis
> , taammuz. They just might be Feces Pieces.
on an idea interpreting what we read then what good is this elaborate medium
of discourse otherwise known as the internet?
Being a QBLH member I do place stock in the writings of Achad, before he
went crazy he seemed to be an objective contemporary of Crowley. Also yes,
the QBLH takes great stock in Achad's writings, including Liber 31 and 'The
Anatomy of the Body of God'.
As I had understood, Liber 418 is Class 'A-B', and the last ten aeythyrs are
Class A. I could be wrong, will check it out.
[Moderator reformatted; TOP-POSTED; see the Posting Style Guides]
- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Ahh. The question is again asked, What is truth? Although Pilate jested, Crowley waited for an answer, andMessage 2 of 8 , Mar 28 10:25 AMView SourceDo what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
The question is again asked, "What is truth?" Although Pilate
jested, Crowley waited for an answer, and now I am challenged to
elucidate this Mystery. Well, I can do what I can, which might not
be much. :)
--- In email@example.com, "eyeofhoor" <owner@...> wrote:
> Facts can be proven. I doubt you can prove the factual existence
> the spirit body.
If something cannot be proven, is it not capable of being fact?
Hmmm. Many miscarriages of justice result directly from lawyers
proving lies. Is provability really a necessary criterion for
something being accepted as a fact? :) LOL Maybe the world still IS
flat :O LOL
Nevertheless, by 'prove' are you asking if I can provide scientific
proof that would convince everyone, or just the scientifically
minded, or perhaps only mystics. As an example, many psychic/police
collaborations seem to provide factual evidence of a spirit body,
i.e. that a psychic can step into an alternate consciousness that
appears to be a separate spirit body - or at least traces/remnants
of it ;) - in order to gather clues on a crime scene from the
deceased victim's perspective. Would evidence of this sort PROVE
the existence of a spirit body? Perhaps, or perhaps not; it all
depends on what proves facts to you. :)
(By the way, isn't the common standard of provability merely having
the skill of persuasion.) ;)
Perhaps another interpretation of what you're asking me is "Can I
prove the factual existence of the spirit body to you personally?"
I can't answer this question, I hardly know you. If Crowley is to
be believed (Yes, I know - If 666 wrote it, it HAS to be wrong!),
his experiments with Astral Projection with his student in the Far
East would be a good place to begin if one is serious about having
the factual existence of the spirit body proven to themselves. In
the experiment, 666 and a female student took turns astral
projecting to the location of the other. Upon returning from their
separately-begun-journeys in the spirit body, they compared notes
about their activities of which they both performed a part.
This experiment can be advantageously modified to extend the
practice. I still feel that 666's greatest contribution was the
focusing of the scientific method towards the subjects/aim of
religion. :) Without establishing a scientific basis for any
experimentation, any effort at progress is usually illusory, or
rather, wasted. :(
Proving something to another is a completely different process than
perception from experience combined with empirical evidence.
Are there other methods of interpreting the situation which does not
use the term 'spirit body'? Of course. A story that, I think, Bill
Heidrick used in another context seems to fit my concept here of
belief vs. reality: One can believe that under the hood of your car
are elves on a treadmill that transform themselves magically into a
four-stroke combustion engine upon lifting the hood. Without any
doubt, this may appear to be true or factual on some level.
However, it won't prove too USEFUL as a TOOL to further one's
progress on whatever path they tread if one's perception does not
correspond with the, yes, facts of Nature.
The concept of Schools of Magic being a convenient classification to
logically separate the philosophical basis of magickal practitioners
upon their fundamental inner point of view (i.e. Existence as
Sorrow/Curse, Existence as Joy/Celebration, Existence as "Who Cares -
Go beyond it!" can also approximately sum up the nature of the
practitioners of the Three Schools. Black was chosen as a colour by
the ancients since it absorbs all light, and therefore gives off no
light. To suddenly decide that one feels the Black School of Magic
should represent people that paint their bedrooms red (as a
ridiculous example), from no other basis than confabulating from
what you've read (As long as it wasn't by the evil Crowley, of
course!), does not produce many USEFUL TOOLS for the would-be mage. :
On the other hand, philosophically or mystically since all is Maya,
do therefore facts not exist? Does wood still float on water, even
if the perception of both is the symptom of a disease of semen. Is
there still some system of correspondence through which the Universe
is perceived, establishing proper proportion and functionality
between its components? Regardless that you feel that:
> Spirit realms are a matter of subjective perception, there is no
> proof spirit realms exist
Do spirit realms contain facts? And since, if spirit realms are a
matter of subjective perception, do matters of subjective perception
contain facts? Apparently so. :)
Does this imply that everyone's vision of reality is just as valid
as another's? :O Even Charlie Manson's??, or a cannibalistic
delusional schizophrenic's??? @|-B To accept such a stretch of
logic would be to EARN the hard knocks of Nature that would result
from a course of action based upon such misunderstanding. ;)
Just as previous postings on the subject of the Dragon Asana
addressed the point of a particular position being more or less
useful than another. If many people find physical danger in this
pose, it obviously won't be a USEFUL TOOL for them with which to
quiet the mind. Speaking of quieting the mind . . . Almost
there . . .
>--perhaps you should reconsider your liberal
> and inappropriate use of the term *facts*.
LOL I haven't been called liberal since Berkeley. LOL LOL
LOL :) Yes, I reconsidered my use of the term facts and feel that
it's still appropriate. :O
Love is the law, love under will.
(still killing off my own perceptions)
- ... aeythyrs are Class A. I could be wrong, will check it out.Message 3 of 8 , Apr 1, 2006View Sourcetom chaudoin wrote:
>As I had understood, Liber 418 is Class 'A-B', and the last tenaeythyrs are Class A. I could be wrong, will check it out.<
The 8th aire is in Class D for an Adeptus Minor Without in the
A.'.A.'.. Although _Liber VIII_ is an Official Ritual of the A.'.A.'.,
it is to be regarded, in my opinion, more symbolic that it should
practical. The 18th aire so far as it concerns the method of recording
the visions of the aires is in Class A for the Neophyte. Below ZAX,
the 10th aire, is Class B for Neophytes. Beyond ZAX is Class A for
Neophytes; all of whom, it bears mentioning, are to show control over
the entire astral plane.
If we are to give any credence at all to Aleister Crowley's precepts
pertaining the nature of the astral plane in _Book IV_ (Appendix III
_Notes for an Astral Atlas_), then we are left with the realization
that while revealing and symbolic, the visions of the aies do not have
in themselves any bearing on our initiation, practically. However
there's a theme found in _Liber 418_: the astral plane contains within
it the reflections of all 10 Sephirot found on the Tree of Life; to
include the Abyss.
To paraphrase the New Comment reagrding the astral,"Therein will seem
as if an entire Universe." It is up to us to figure-out how, without
the aid of visions Enochian or otherwise, to traverse the entire Tree
of Life found within the astral to become an Adeptus Minor Within.
There are of course other methods to the same end, but none so apt to
deceive than going at it from within the astral.