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Re: [t93] enochian magick.../Are there Demons, Angels, Evil and Good?

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  • tom chaudoin
    Thelema, Actually, there is an analysis of this matter in the 6th Aeythyr of Liber 418: And a voice cries: Cursed be he that shall uncover the nakedness of
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 1, 2006
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      Thelema,

      Actually, there is an analysis of this matter in the 6th Aeythyr of Liber
      418:

      "And a voice cries: Cursed be he that shall uncover the nakedness of the
      Most High, for he is drunken upon the wine that is the blood of the adepts.
      And BABALON hath lulled him to sleep upon her breast, and she hath fled
      away, and left him naked, and she hath called her children together, saying:
      Come up with me, and let us make a mock of the nakedness of the Most High.

      And the first of the adepts covered His shame with a cloth, walking
      backwards; and was white. And the second of the adepts covered His shame
      with a cloth, walking sideways and was yellow. And the third of the adepts
      made a mock of His nakedness, walking forwards; and was black. And these are
      three great schools of the Magi, who are also the three Magi that journeyed
      unto Bethlehem; and because thou hast not wisdom, thou shalt not know which
      school prevaileth, or if the three schools be not one12. For the Black
      Brothers lift not up their heads thus far into the Holy Chokmah, for they
      were all drowned in the great flood, which is Binah, before the true vine
      could be planted upon the holy hill of Zion."- Liber 418, 6th Aire.

      The 'walking' metaphor can be interpreted as movement and evolution of
      culture over time. The White Brothers 'walk backwards' in that they attempt
      to stand upon old ritual and orthodoxy in order to accomplish their wills
      and affect society, culture, etc.

      The Yellow Brothers seek to get out of the timestream altogether and not
      participate in collective matters beyond initiating the willing into their
      system of thought.

      However, the Black Brothers 'walk forwards' and 'naked' into the future,
      discarding both orthodoxy and the ideals of renuciation in order to
      hedonistically indulge in modern culture and to cultivate and develop new
      systems. Ironically, this seems to be mpre Thelemic from a literary
      perspective than the other two ways of thinking. From this context, the
      'Black Brothers' seem to be group dedicated to progress, whereas the others
      are into backpedaling and abdication respectively.

      Frater Achad wrote upon this ideal in his article: "Horus, Isis, Osiris and
      the OBL" which remains in my opinion one of the most lucid libers on the
      Procession of the Equinoxes and the Three Schools. He writes:

      "
      There is also a Trinitarian Cycle of Father, Mother, Child, running
      parallel, so to speak, with this Tradition of the Evercoming Horus. It is
      the Natural Formula of Isis, Osiris, Horus, and is of Solar Origin. From
      2,419 B.C. to 255 B.C. Isis the Mother was said to be the Predominant Aspect
      of the Trinity. Hers was the Office of Nature. She presided over the Natural
      opening of the Great and Little Years which both coincided. Then Osiris,
      Dead and Re-arisen, was the predominant object of Worship till 1900 A.D.,
      and self-sacrifice and Renunciation were the principal esoteric formulae. In
      this present Cycle Horus is doubly predominant, so we see Him in his Dual
      Nature as Horus- Harpocrates.

      It is also interesting to note the character of Horus as Apophis the
      Avenger. The Isis, Osiris, Horus arrangement is quite the natural one for
      the course of events. Isis (The Moon) having taken the place of the Great
      Mother Nuit. But what of the Formula Iao, as Isis, Apophis, Osiris?

      If we make a list of several repetitions of the series thus:

      Isis

      Osiris

      Horus

      Isis

      Osiris

      Horus

      Isis. etc.

      and trace them back, we find the order Isis, Horus, Osiris, etc.; or Isis,
      Apophis, Osiris. Horus appears as the avenger Apophis to those who try to Go
      Back, or retrogress. He has to destroy them in order that they may be
      renewed. But as long as we go forward, we travel with the Ever Coming Son,
      who is after all our Destiny, since He is within each of us as the True Urge
      of our Being. This, then, is the secret of the Way of the Tao; step boldly
      out on the Path of Destiny, having aligned the personal with the Divine
      Will, and thus prepared ourselves for the acceptance of that Destiny. Keep
      ahead of the urge from behind, and it will not fret us.

      Then we become Free, Goers, Doing the Will of God upon Earth, Ever- Coming
      Sons of God.

      But if we attempt to lag behind to carry out some personal whims and wishes,
      Destiny catches up with us and forces us on. To those who willfully turn
      back and seek to avoid cooperating with the Divine Plan, Horus is the Great
      Avenger. Has he not said ``I am a God of War and of Vengeance. I will deal
      hardly with them.'' Thus at his Coming in 1904 he found the Race in a state
      of definite retrogression. ``Civilization'' met him as he advanced in
      triumph, and millions fell, without understanding what was happening. He
      still drives ahead in His Chariot, and millions more will feel his Force and
      Fire, until the Race recognizes that it must right about face, and cheer the
      Conquering Hero on. Then we shall have Peace and Rejoicing, and the Stern
      Warrior will seem as the Gentlest Child."

      So what we call the Black Brothers may be folks who are definitely into
      progress and improving the human condition.

      "I prefer the Sufi Method.",

      T.

      [mod rmv quote]
    • Mike
      ... of culture over time. The White Brothers walk backwards in that they attempt to stand upon old ritual and orthodoxy in order to accomplish their wills
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 15, 2006
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        --- In thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com, "tom chaudoin" <taammuz@...> wrote:

        > The 'walking' metaphor can be interpreted as movement and evolution
        of culture over time. The White Brothers 'walk backwards' in that they
        attempt to stand upon old ritual and orthodoxy in order to accomplish
        their wills and affect society, culture, etc.

        > The Yellow Brothers seek to get out of the timestream altogether and
        not participate in collective matters beyond initiating the willing
        into their system of thought.
        >
        > However, the Black Brothers 'walk forwards' and 'naked' into the
        future, discarding both orthodoxy and the ideals of renuciation in
        order to hedonistically indulge in modern culture and to cultivate and
        develop new systems. Ironically, this seems to be mpre Thelemic from a
        literary perspective than the other two ways of thinking. From this
        context, the 'Black Brothers' seem to be group dedicated to progress,
        whereas the others are into backpedaling and abdication respectively.
        >
        93

        This is a novel take on the three schools. From Magick Without Tears:

        "The Yellow School of Magick considers, with complete scientific and
        philosophical detachment, the fact of the Universe as a fact. Being
        itself apart of that Universe, it realizes its impotence to alter the
        totality in the smallest degree. To put it vulgarly, it does not try
        to raise itself from the ground by pulling at its socks. It therefore
        opposes to the current of phenomena no reaction either of hatred or of
        sympathy. So far as it attempts to influence the course of events at
        all, it does so in the only intelligent way conceivable. It seeks to
        diminish internal friction."

        . . .

        "Hoping that you are now recovered from the devastating revelations in
        the matter of the Yellow School, I must ask you to brace yourself for
        disclosures even more formidable about the Black. Do not confuse with
        the Black Lodge, or the Black Brothers. The terminology is
        unfortunate, but it wasn't I that did it. Now then, to work!"

        "The Black School of Magick, which must by no means be confused with
        the School of Black Magick or Sorcery, which latter is a perversion of
        the White tradition, is distinguished fundamentally from the Yellow
        School in that it considers the Universe not as neutral, but as
        definitely a curse. Its primary theorem is the "First Noble Truth" of
        the Buddha—"Everything is Sorrow." In the primitive classics of this
        School the idea of sorrow is confused with that of sin. (This idea of
        universal lamentation is presumably responsible for the choice of
        black as its symbolic colour. And yet? Is not white the Chinese hue
        of mourning?)"

        "The analysis of the philosophers of this School refers every
        phenomenon to the category of sorrow. It is quite useless to point
        out to them that certain events are accompanied with joy: they
        continue their ruthless calculations, and prove to your satisfaction,
        or rather dissatisfaction, that the more apparently pleasant an event
        is, the more malignantly deceptive is its fascination. There is only
        one way of escape even conceivable, and this way is quite simple,
        annihilation. (Shallow critics of Buddhism have wasted a great deal of
        stupid ingenuity on trying to make out that Nirvana or Nibbana means
        something different from what etymology, tradition and the evidence of
        the Classics combine to define it. The word means, quite simply,
        cessation: and it stands to reason that, if everything is sorrow, the
        only thing which is not sorrow is nothing, and that therefore to
        escape from sorrow is the attainment of nothingness.)"

        . . .

        "The central idea of the White School is that, admitted that
        "everything is sorrow" for the profane, the Initiate has the means of
        transforming it to "Everything is joy." There is no question of any
        ostrich-ignoring of fact, as in Christian Science. There is not even
        any more or less sophisticated argument about the point of view
        altering the situation as in Vedantism. We have, on the contrary, and
        attitude which was perhaps first of all, historically speaking,
        defined by Zoroaster, "nature teaches us, and the Oracles also affirm,
        that even the evil germs of Matter may alike become useful and good."
        "Stay not on the precipice with the dross of Matter; for there is a
        place for thine Image in a realm ever splendid." "If thou extend the
        Fiery Mind to the work of piety, thou wilt preserve the fluxible body."*

        "It appears that the Levant, from Byzantium and Athens to Damascus,
        Jerusalem, Alexandria and Cairo, was preoccupied with the formulation
        of this School in a popular religion, beginning in the days of
        Augustus Caesar. For there are elements of this central idea in the
        works of the Gnostics, in certain rituals of what Frazer conveniently
        calls the Asiatic God, as in the remnants of the Ancient Egyptian
        cult. The doctrine became abominably corrupted in committee, so to
        speak, and the result was Christianity, which may be regarded as a
        White ritual overlaid by a mountainous mass of Black doctrine, like
        the baby of the mother that King Solomon non-suited.

        "We may define the doctrine of the White School in its purity in very
        simple terms.

        "Existence is pure joy. Sorrow is caused by failure to perceive this
        fact; but this is not a misfortune. We have invented sorrow, which
        does not matter so much after all, in order to have the exuberant
        satisfaction of getting rid of it. Existence is thus a sacrament.

        "Adepts of the White School regard their brethren of the Black very
        much as the aristocratic English Sahib (of the days when England was a
        nation) regarded the benighted Hindu. Nietzsche expresses the
        philosophy of this School to that extent with considerable accuracy
        and vigour. The man who denounces life merely defines himself as the
        man who is unequal to it. The brave man rejoices in giving and taking
        hard knocks, and the brave man is joyous. The Scandinavian idea of
        Valhalla may be primitive, but it is manly. A heaven of popular
        concert, like the Christian; of unconscious repose, like the Buddhist;
        or even of sensual enjoyment, like the Moslem, excites his nausea and
        contempt. He understands that the only joy worth while is the joy of
        continual victory, and victory itself would become as tame as croquet
        if it were not spiced by equally continual defeat."

        So here we have the Black school (NOT to be confused with black
        magick or the black lodge) expounding a purely Transcendent Spirit,
        with this World either fallen and corrupt, or an illusion that
        imprisons (called by some "ascenders" because they seek to ascend out
        of this World never to return).

        We have the White school expounding a Spirit that is both Emminent and
        Transcendant (with a perverion of this school being the black lodge,
        which believes only in an Eminent Spirit, denying the Transcendent -
        for example scientific materialism - in this form called by some
        "descenders").

        And we have the Yellow school, expounding also the unity of
        Transcendant and Eminent spirit, but being passive where the White
        school is active (both white and yellow scools being called non-dual,
        though this only applies to the healthy form of the white).

        The passage you quote from the vision and the voice is the same one
        quoted by Crowley in Magick Without Tears chapter VI, which is
        concerned with the three schools and which I qouted above (as well as
        the following two chapters). Judging from your interpretation of this
        quote it seems that you have not read these chapters, as you
        completly contradict Crowleys' interpretation. Your confusion of the
        Black school with the black lodge is indication enough that you do not
        understand the subject. Please, out of self-respect, do a little
        more research (even a very little!) before writing an essay explaining
        matters you don't understand.

        hoping you don't find me a complete ass,
        93 93/93
        mike
      • tom chaudoin
        Mike ... ... Mike, I find you a complete ass, :-D, Crowley s own descriptions are contradictory with Class A symbolism
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 19, 2006
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          "Mike" <rockout93@...>
          > This is a novel take on the three schools. From Magick Without Tears:

          <snip quote>

          > So here we have the Black school (NOT to be confused with black
          > magick or the black lodge) expounding a purely Transcendent Spirit,
          > with this World either fallen and corrupt, or an illusion that
          > imprisons (called by some "ascenders" because they seek to ascend out
          > of this World never to return).
          >
          > We have the White school expounding a Spirit that is both Emminent and
          > Transcendant (with a perverion of this school being the black lodge,
          > which believes only in an Eminent Spirit, denying the Transcendent -
          > for example scientific materialism - in this form called by some
          > "descenders").
          >
          > And we have the Yellow school, expounding also the unity of
          > Transcendant and Eminent spirit, but being passive where the White
          > school is active (both white and yellow scools being called non-dual,
          > though this only applies to the healthy form of the white).
          >
          > The passage you quote from the vision and the voice is the same one
          > quoted by Crowley in Magick Without Tears chapter VI, which is
          > concerned with the three schools and which I qouted above (as well as
          > the following two chapters). Judging from your interpretation of this
          > quote it seems that you have not read these chapters, as you
          > completly contradict Crowleys' interpretation. Your confusion of the
          > Black school with the black lodge is indication enough that you do not
          > understand the subject. Please, out of self-respect, do a little
          > more research (even a very little!) before writing an essay explaining
          > matters you don't understand.
          >
          > hoping you don't find me a complete ass,

          Mike, I find you a complete ass, :-D, Crowley's own descriptions are
          contradictory with 'Class A symbolism' all the time. The last ten aeythyrs
          of Liber 418 are of course, Class A. Yes I have read Magick Without Tears
          and I understand Crowley's definitions of the Three Schools. I, however, do
          not regard the Prophet as an infallible source of info on these concepts.

          Also, Class A documents, by definition, REQUIRE individuals to form their
          own interpretation of them, rather than fanatically adhere to every word of
          technical literature Crowley wrote.

          What I wrote was a speculative essay about the nature of the three schools
          based upon an entirely different literary interpretation of them. In this
          case: one drawn from Frater Achad's writings. I was in no wise attempting to
          lay down some overarching definition of these concepts. I tend not to
          swallow everything Crowley wrote literally, this kernel of gnosis about the
          three schools is mine entirely, and I was aware beforehand that it did not
          jibe with a classical definition of it.

          I think you're hairsplitting because of a singular description of something
          which you adhere to, which is not the only valid one. What I wrote was not
          an 'explanation' it was speculation, and properly prefaced as such. I dont
          think the '3 schools' are an overarching metaphor either, I think these
          descriptions are entirely Crowley's, even though he denies: "The terminology
          is unfortunate, but it wasn't I that did it." Its another idea, or symbol,
          which can be contemplated, or expounded upon.

          Novel takes are my specialty. Thanks for the feedback, you seem like a nice
          enough fellow.

          Thelema,

          T.

          [Moderator reformatted for readability, removed excess quotation.]
        • Aryobrand
          Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. To address a few inaccuracies . . . ... Unfortunately this is not true. The only portion of Liber 418 in
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 26, 2006
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            Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

            To address a few inaccuracies . . .

            --- In thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com, "tom chaudoin" <taammuz@...>
            wrote:
            > The last ten aeythyrs
            > of Liber 418 are of course, Class A. Yes I have read Magick

            Unfortunately this is not true. The only portion of Liber 418 in
            Class A is the section giving instructions on the Ritual for the
            Knowledge and Conversation of the H.G.A. in, I think, 8th Aethyr
            (Sorry my copy is packed.) Nothing else is Class A. However,
            whether 666's descriptions are in Class A or Class F is immaterial
            to the FACTS of the matter :)

            You seem to place great value in the words of Frater Achad. Do you
            also agree with his 'tz Cha'im diagram as well? <:|

            Achad's entire problem with his Tree of Life diagram was that he
            thought these Sephiroth and paths were INTELLECTUAL ideas ONLY, not
            symbols of actual facts within your spirit body (Macropros. too)!!!
            The same analogy can hold here as well. The Three Schools of Magick
            are actual facts within the spirit realms. The geography or layout
            of the land, if you will. Do these represent physical organizations
            of men and women? Soror Meral (Phyllis Seckler) always believed
            that there HAD to be a physical external organization, with by-laws
            and/or exams, etc. This merely opens up a further question, I
            think. ;)

            As with ANY system of symbolism, these either coincide with the way
            things are or they don't. If the particular system you're
            investigating is based upon a false premise, all of the cleaning-out
            ("ausputzung" Also sprach Nietzsche der Antichrist) of that system
            will never make it an efficiently working system. If the temples
            are founded on shaky foundations, tear them down!!! Lend a
            hand . . .

            IMO I think you may suffer from the same problem as Frater Achad
            did! You state in your reply

            > What I wrote was a speculative essay about the nature of the three
            schools
            > based upon an entirely different literary interpretation of them.

            "What I wrote was a SPECULATIVE essay about the nature of the three
            schools BASED UPON an entirely different LITERARY INTERPRETATION of
            them." (Capitals are mine, as well as capitols) I think this
            couldn't state the case more clearly! :)

            rockout93 was right on the money in his posting when he said

            > > do a little
            > > more research (even a very little!) before writing an essay
            explaining
            > > matters you don't understand.

            I think you would do well to check the ingredients of your

            > kernel of gnosis
            , taammuz. They just might be Feces Pieces.

            Love is the law, love under will.

            Aryobrand
            (joining the asses of Baphomet)
            ;)
          • tom chaudoin
            From: Aryobrand ... Hey if you wish to be a fanatical Crowleyite then go ahead, if we cant riff on an idea interpreting what we
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 27, 2006
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              From: "Aryobrand" <destroy_the_oto@...>
              > ...The only portion of Liber 418 in
              > Class A is the section giving instructions on the Ritual for the
              > Knowledge and Conversation of the H.G.A. in, I think, 8th Aethyr
              > (Sorry my copy is packed.) Nothing else is Class A. However,
              > whether 666's descriptions are in Class A or Class F is immaterial
              > to the FACTS of the matter :)
              >
              > You seem to place great value in the words of Frater Achad. Do you
              > also agree with his 'tz Cha'im diagram as well? <:|
              >
              > Achad's entire problem with his Tree of Life diagram was that he
              > thought these Sephiroth and paths were INTELLECTUAL ideas ONLY, not
              > symbols of actual facts within your spirit body (Macropros. too)!!!
              > The same analogy can hold here as well. The Three Schools of Magick
              > are actual facts within the spirit realms. The geography or layout
              > of the land, if you will. Do these represent physical organizations
              > of men and women? Soror Meral (Phyllis Seckler) always believed
              > that there HAD to be a physical external organization, with by-laws
              > and/or exams, etc. This merely opens up a further question, I
              > think. ;)
              >
              > As with ANY system of symbolism, these either coincide with the way
              > things are or they don't. If the particular system you're
              > investigating is based upon a false premise, all of the cleaning-out
              > ("ausputzung" Also sprach Nietzsche der Antichrist) of that system
              > will never make it an efficiently working system. If the temples
              > are founded on shaky foundations, tear them down!!! Lend a
              > hand . . .
              >
              > IMO I think you may suffer from the same problem as Frater Achad
              > did! You state in your reply
              >
              > > What I wrote was a speculative essay about the nature of the three
              > schools
              > > based upon an entirely different literary interpretation of them.
              >
              > "What I wrote was a SPECULATIVE essay about the nature of the three
              > schools BASED UPON an entirely different LITERARY INTERPRETATION of
              > them." (Capitals are mine, as well as capitols) I think this
              > couldn't state the case more clearly! :)
              >
              > rockout93 was right on the money in his posting when he said
              >
              > > > do a little
              > > > more research (even a very little!) before writing an essay
              > explaining
              > > > matters you don't understand.
              >
              > I think you would do well to check the ingredients of your
              >
              > > kernel of gnosis
              > , taammuz. They just might be Feces Pieces.

              Hey if you wish to be a fanatical Crowleyite then go ahead, if we cant riff
              on an idea interpreting what we read then what good is this elaborate medium
              of discourse otherwise known as the internet?

              Being a QBLH member I do place stock in the writings of Achad, before he
              went crazy he seemed to be an objective contemporary of Crowley. Also yes,
              the QBLH takes great stock in Achad's writings, including Liber 31 and 'The
              Anatomy of the Body of God'.

              As I had understood, Liber 418 is Class 'A-B', and the last ten aeythyrs are
              Class A. I could be wrong, will check it out.

              T.


              [Moderator reformatted; TOP-POSTED; see the Posting Style Guides]
            • eyeofhoor
              ... Facts can be proven. I doubt you can prove the factual existence of the spirit body. ... Spirit realms are a matter of subjective perception, there is no
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 27, 2006
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                --- "Aryobrand" <destroy_the_oto@...> wrote:

                > Achad's entire problem with his Tree of Life diagram was that he
                > thought these Sephiroth and paths were INTELLECTUAL ideas ONLY, not
                > symbols of actual facts within your spirit body (Macropros.
                > too)!!!

                Facts can be proven. I doubt you can prove the factual existence of
                the spirit body.

                > The same analogy can hold here as well. The Three Schools of
                > Magick are actual facts within the spirit realms. The geography or
                > layout of the land, if you will.

                Spirit realms are a matter of subjective perception, there is no
                proof spirit realms exist--perhaps you should reconsider your liberal
                and inappropriate use of the term *facts*.


                Nexus93
              • Aryobrand
                Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Ahh. The question is again asked, What is truth? Although Pilate jested, Crowley waited for an answer, and
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 28, 2006
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                  Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

                  Ahh.

                  The question is again asked, "What is truth?" Although Pilate
                  jested, Crowley waited for an answer, and now I am challenged to
                  elucidate this Mystery. Well, I can do what I can, which might not
                  be much. :)


                  --- In thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com, "eyeofhoor" <owner@...> wrote:
                  > Facts can be proven. I doubt you can prove the factual existence
                  of
                  > the spirit body.
                  >

                  If something cannot be proven, is it not capable of being fact?
                  Hmmm. Many miscarriages of justice result directly from lawyers
                  proving lies. Is provability really a necessary criterion for
                  something being accepted as a fact? :) LOL Maybe the world still IS
                  flat :O LOL

                  Nevertheless, by 'prove' are you asking if I can provide scientific
                  proof that would convince everyone, or just the scientifically
                  minded, or perhaps only mystics. As an example, many psychic/police
                  collaborations seem to provide factual evidence of a spirit body,
                  i.e. that a psychic can step into an alternate consciousness that
                  appears to be a separate spirit body - or at least traces/remnants
                  of it ;) - in order to gather clues on a crime scene from the
                  deceased victim's perspective. Would evidence of this sort PROVE
                  the existence of a spirit body? Perhaps, or perhaps not; it all
                  depends on what proves facts to you. :)

                  (By the way, isn't the common standard of provability merely having
                  the skill of persuasion.) ;)

                  Perhaps another interpretation of what you're asking me is "Can I
                  prove the factual existence of the spirit body to you personally?"
                  I can't answer this question, I hardly know you. If Crowley is to
                  be believed (Yes, I know - If 666 wrote it, it HAS to be wrong!),
                  his experiments with Astral Projection with his student in the Far
                  East would be a good place to begin if one is serious about having
                  the factual existence of the spirit body proven to themselves. In
                  the experiment, 666 and a female student took turns astral
                  projecting to the location of the other. Upon returning from their
                  separately-begun-journeys in the spirit body, they compared notes
                  about their activities of which they both performed a part.

                  This experiment can be advantageously modified to extend the
                  practice. I still feel that 666's greatest contribution was the
                  focusing of the scientific method towards the subjects/aim of
                  religion. :) Without establishing a scientific basis for any
                  experimentation, any effort at progress is usually illusory, or
                  rather, wasted. :(

                  Proving something to another is a completely different process than
                  perception from experience combined with empirical evidence.

                  Are there other methods of interpreting the situation which does not
                  use the term 'spirit body'? Of course. A story that, I think, Bill
                  Heidrick used in another context seems to fit my concept here of
                  belief vs. reality: One can believe that under the hood of your car
                  are elves on a treadmill that transform themselves magically into a
                  four-stroke combustion engine upon lifting the hood. Without any
                  doubt, this may appear to be true or factual on some level.
                  However, it won't prove too USEFUL as a TOOL to further one's
                  progress on whatever path they tread if one's perception does not
                  correspond with the, yes, facts of Nature.

                  The concept of Schools of Magic being a convenient classification to
                  logically separate the philosophical basis of magickal practitioners
                  upon their fundamental inner point of view (i.e. Existence as
                  Sorrow/Curse, Existence as Joy/Celebration, Existence as "Who Cares -
                  Go beyond it!" can also approximately sum up the nature of the
                  practitioners of the Three Schools. Black was chosen as a colour by
                  the ancients since it absorbs all light, and therefore gives off no
                  light. To suddenly decide that one feels the Black School of Magic
                  should represent people that paint their bedrooms red (as a
                  ridiculous example), from no other basis than confabulating from
                  what you've read (As long as it wasn't by the evil Crowley, of
                  course!), does not produce many USEFUL TOOLS for the would-be mage. :
                  (

                  On the other hand, philosophically or mystically since all is Maya,
                  do therefore facts not exist? Does wood still float on water, even
                  if the perception of both is the symptom of a disease of semen. Is
                  there still some system of correspondence through which the Universe
                  is perceived, establishing proper proportion and functionality
                  between its components? Regardless that you feel that:

                  > Spirit realms are a matter of subjective perception, there is no
                  > proof spirit realms exist

                  Do spirit realms contain facts? And since, if spirit realms are a
                  matter of subjective perception, do matters of subjective perception
                  contain facts? Apparently so. :)

                  Does this imply that everyone's vision of reality is just as valid
                  as another's? :O Even Charlie Manson's??, or a cannibalistic
                  delusional schizophrenic's??? @|-B To accept such a stretch of
                  logic would be to EARN the hard knocks of Nature that would result
                  from a course of action based upon such misunderstanding. ;)

                  Just as previous postings on the subject of the Dragon Asana
                  addressed the point of a particular position being more or less
                  useful than another. If many people find physical danger in this
                  pose, it obviously won't be a USEFUL TOOL for them with which to
                  quiet the mind. Speaking of quieting the mind . . . Almost
                  there . . .

                  >--perhaps you should reconsider your liberal
                  > and inappropriate use of the term *facts*.
                  >
                  >
                  > Nexus93
                  >

                  LOL I haven't been called liberal since Berkeley. LOL LOL
                  LOL :) Yes, I reconsidered my use of the term facts and feel that
                  it's still appropriate. :O

                  Love is the law, love under will.

                  Aryobrand
                  (still killing off my own perceptions)
                • atmacomte
                  ... aeythyrs are Class A. I could be wrong, will check it out.
                  Message 8 of 8 , Apr 1 8:52 PM
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                    tom chaudoin wrote:

                    >As I had understood, Liber 418 is Class 'A-B', and the last ten
                    aeythyrs are Class A. I could be wrong, will check it out.<

                    The 8th aire is in Class D for an Adeptus Minor Without in the
                    A.'.A.'.. Although _Liber VIII_ is an Official Ritual of the A.'.A.'.,
                    it is to be regarded, in my opinion, more symbolic that it should
                    practical. The 18th aire so far as it concerns the method of recording
                    the visions of the aires is in Class A for the Neophyte. Below ZAX,
                    the 10th aire, is Class B for Neophytes. Beyond ZAX is Class A for
                    Neophytes; all of whom, it bears mentioning, are to show control over
                    the entire astral plane.

                    If we are to give any credence at all to Aleister Crowley's precepts
                    pertaining the nature of the astral plane in _Book IV_ (Appendix III
                    _Notes for an Astral Atlas_), then we are left with the realization
                    that while revealing and symbolic, the visions of the aies do not have
                    in themselves any bearing on our initiation, practically. However
                    there's a theme found in _Liber 418_: the astral plane contains within
                    it the reflections of all 10 Sephirot found on the Tree of Life; to
                    include the Abyss.

                    To paraphrase the New Comment reagrding the astral,"Therein will seem
                    as if an entire Universe." It is up to us to figure-out how, without
                    the aid of visions Enochian or otherwise, to traverse the entire Tree
                    of Life found within the astral to become an Adeptus Minor Within.

                    There are of course other methods to the same end, but none so apt to
                    deceive than going at it from within the astral.
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