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Dulcimers in the Abyss

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  • alamantra
    ... This caught my fancy, as it occurs to me that the way the word is generally used presents a sort of absurdity. We speak of crossing the abyss and this
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 29, 2004
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      > [someone wrote]
      >
      > > > > One thing is certain, most people who
      > > > > encounter and cross the abyss and survive, retire from
      > > > > ritual and affiliation with groups.
      > >
      > > I doubt many face or conquer the abyss, period, so I don't
      > > have any idea what you mean by "most" in this context anyway.

      This caught my fancy, as it occurs to me that the way the word is generally used presents a sort of absurdity. We speak of "crossing the abyss" and this would seem imply an idea of moving across a plane so to speak, and yet the word 'abyss' conjures more the idea of depth than breadth meaning a bottomless chasm.


      \A*byss"\, n. [L. abyssus a bottomless gulf, fr. Gr. ? bottomless; 'a priv. + ? depth, bottom.] 1. A bottomless or unfathomed depth, gulf, or chasm; hence, any deep, immeasurable, and, specifically, hell, or the bottomless pit.

      Ye powers and spirits of this nethermost abyss. --Milton.

      The throne is darkness, in the abyss of light. --Dryden.

      2. Infinite time; a vast intellectual or moral depth.

      The abysses of metaphysical theology. --Macaulay.

      In unfathomable abysses of disgrace. --Burke.

      3. (Her.) The center of an escutcheon.

      Note: This word, in its leading uses, is associated with the cosmological notions of the Hebrews, having reference to a supposed illimitable mass of waters from which our earth sprung, and beneath whose profound depths the wicked were punished. --Encyc. Brit.

      abyss

      n : a bottomless gulf or pit; any unfathomable (or apparently unfathomable) cavity or chasm or void extending below (often used figuratively) [syn: abysm]

      Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

      Even if we dismiss the depth vs breadth issue it still seems that "crossing the abyss" confers the idea of moving from one fixed point to another, but if the chasm is fathomless it would seem to put forth the idea that the path is ...well ...endless. See ya at the top.

      Bliss:
      Alamantra
      www.greaterthelema.org
      www.alamantra.org
      www.ashe-prem.org


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • 333
      50041113 viii om # # # One thing is certain, most people who encounter # # # and cross the abyss and survive, retire from # # # ritual and affiliation with
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 13, 2004
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        50041113 viii om

        #>#># One thing is certain, most people who encounter
        #>#># and cross the abyss and survive, retire from
        #>#># ritual and affiliation with groups.

        #># I doubt many face or conquer the abyss, period....

        such doubt is quite rational. a hefty skepticism about
        spiritual adeptship and accomplishment *ought* to come
        into being in association with the Method of Science.
        religious will assault the Tower of Results, as it were,
        with all manner manner of self-promotion for cult and
        occultist, primarily to extent what is integral to the
        career of a successful magician: egotistical applomb.

        "alamantra" <alamantra@...>:
        # ...the way the word is generally used presents a sort
        # of absurdity. We speak of "crossing the abyss" and
        # this would seem imply an idea of moving across a plane
        # so to speak,

        in that sense usually navigating over a pit, or gulf.

        # and yet the word 'abyss' conjures more the idea of
        # depth than breadth meaning a bottomless chasm.

        agreed. sometimes sefirotics maps the Abyss to a specific
        portion of the tree, and this may or may not imply some
        kind of distance travelled. some QLB exponents even claim
        there is an abyss between sefira, and between multiply-
        included trees within the overarching tree. if one can
        imagine it, it has probably been used to metaphoric effect.

        # 2. Infinite time; a vast intellectual or moral depth.
        # 3. (Her.) The center of an escutcheon.
        # Note: This word, in its leading uses, is associated
        # with the cosmological notions of the Hebrews, having
        # reference to a supposed illimitable mass of waters
        # from which our earth sprung, and beneath whose
        # profound depths the wicked were punished. --Encyc. Brit.

        this latter is undoubtedly what Christian cabalists and
        Hermetic qabalists found valuable inasmuch as it preserves
        some inherent cosmological aspect from the Judeochristian
        origination story and scripture that might thereafter be


        # abyss
        #
        # n : a bottomless gulf or pit; any unfathomable (or
        # apparently unfathomable) cavity or chasm or void
        # extending below (often used figuratively) [syn: abysm]
        # Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

        note the resonance between the Pit in which the Christian
        Adversary/Satan is supposedly *chained* and the

        # Even if we dismiss the depth vs breadth issue

        as a metaphor, the proper interpretation appears to be
        a transcendental shift to another context (often some
        nondualistic quality to existence or the cosmos).

        # it still seems that "crossing the abyss" confers the
        # idea of moving from one fixed point to another,

        moreso, the moving from one 'condition' to another,
        where previous such progression spans a range of kind
        this 'leap' constitutes a novel paradigm to the career
        of the magician. some identify it with some fabulous
        psychomystical disablement (e.g. the extinguishment
        of the ego), but this seems primarily intended to get
        those aspirants *to* that state to knuckle under
        to the hierarchic cultism fashioned by prominent
        egotists such as Crowley ready to exploit underlings.

        # but if the chasm is fathomless it would seem to put
        # forth the idea that the path is ...well ...endless.
        # See ya at the top.

        as a bottomless pit, jumping over it may be a brief
        and easily-achieved maneuver, having arrived at the brink.
        that the pit ITSELF is bottomless only makes diving *into*
        said abyss (something recommended or defended by Black
        Brothers such as KGrant and that icky Nigris as an
        achievable aim) a somehow impossible trajectory.

        the whole 'progression to the top (of the sefirotic tree)
        is even questionable as single-dimensional advance, when
        one considers the 'Snake' and 'Lightning' courses at times
        drawn out by ceremonialists. 'above the Abyss', we might
        conjecture, such linear, simplistic models cannot apply.

        333
      • 333
        [repost, the original dropped many lines of text] 50041113 viii om # # # One thing is certain, most people who encounter # # # and cross the abyss and survive,
        Message 3 of 3 , Nov 13, 2004
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          [repost, the original dropped many lines of text]

          50041113 viii om

          #>#># One thing is certain, most people who encounter
          #>#># and cross the abyss and survive, retire from
          #>#># ritual and affiliation with groups.

          #># I doubt many face or conquer the abyss, period....

          such doubt is quite rational. a hefty skepticism about
          spiritual adeptship and accomplishment *ought* to come
          into being in association with the Method of Science.
          religious will assault the Tower of Results, as it were,
          with all manner of self-promotion for cult and occultist,
          primarily to extend what is integral to the career of a
          successful magician: egotistical applomb.

          "alamantra" <alamantra@...>:
          # ...the way the word is generally used presents a sort
          # of absurdity. We speak of "crossing the abyss" and
          # this would seem imply an idea of moving across a plane
          # so to speak,

          in that sense usually navigating over a pit, or gulf.

          # and yet the word 'abyss' conjures more the idea of
          # depth than breadth meaning a bottomless chasm.

          agreed. sometimes sefirotics maps the Abyss to a specific
          portion of the tree, and this may or may not imply some
          kind of distance travelled. some QLB exponents even claim
          there is an abyss between sefira, and between multiple,
          included trees within the overarching tree. if one can
          imagine it, it has probably been used to metaphoric effect.

          # 2. Infinite time; a vast intellectual or moral depth.
          # 3. (Her.) The center of an escutcheon.
          # Note: This word, in its leading uses, is associated
          # with the cosmological notions of the Hebrews, having
          # reference to a supposed illimitable mass of waters
          # from which our earth sprung, and beneath whose
          # profound depths the wicked were punished. --Encyc. Brit.

          this latter is undoubtedly what Christian cabalists and
          Hermetic qabalists found valuable inasmuch as it preserves
          some inherent cosmological aspect from the Judeochristian
          origination story and scripture that might thereafter be
          used to facilitate conversion to the new cult.

          # abyss
          #
          # n : a bottomless gulf or pit; any unfathomable (or
          # apparently unfathomable) cavity or chasm or void
          # extending below (often used figuratively) [syn: abysm]
          # Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

          note the resonance between the Pit in which the Christian
          Adversary/Satan is supposedly *chained* and the Abyss of
          mystical attainment (traverse, not delved, except in the
          rhetoric and metaphor of later, controversial sources).

          # Even if we dismiss the depth vs breadth issue

          as a metaphor, the proper interpretation appears to be
          a transcendental shift to another context (often some
          nondualistic quality to existence or the cosmos).

          # it still seems that "crossing the abyss" confers the
          # idea of moving from one fixed point to another,

          moreso, the moving from one 'condition' to another,
          where previous such progression spans a range of kind
          this 'leap' constitutes a novel paradigm to the career
          of the magician. some identify it with some fabulous
          psychomystical disablement (e.g. the extinguishment
          of the ego), but this seems primarily intended to get
          those aspirants *to* that state to knuckle under
          to the hierarchic cultism fashioned by prominent
          egotists such as Crowley ready to exploit underlings.

          # but if the chasm is fathomless it would seem to put
          # forth the idea that the path is ...well ...endless.
          # See ya at the top.

          as a bottomless pit, jumping over it may be a brief
          and easily-achieved maneuver, having arrived at the brink.
          that the pit ITSELF is bottomless only makes diving *into*
          said abyss (something recommended or defended by Black
          Brothers such as KGrant and that icky Nigris as an
          achievable aim) a somehow impossible trajectory.

          the whole 'progression to the top (of the sefirotic tree)
          is even questionable as single-dimensional advance, when
          one considers the 'Snake' and 'Lightning' courses at times
          drawn out by ceremonialists. 'above the Abyss', we might
          conjecture, such linear, simplistic models cannot apply.

          333
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