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Re: [t93] Sisters Of Will

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  • eve cheshier
    ... It was commented at a recent Thelemite conference I attended, the lack of serious Thelemite women on the scene . I have met several extremely wilful
    Message 1 of 70 , May 3, 2004
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      Alex Bennett <alex@...> wrote:
      >Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

      It was commented at a recent Thelemite conference I attended, the lack of
      serious Thelemite women on the 'scene'. I have met several extremely wilful
      Thelemite women in my time and am less sure that they are there, more
      whether they can be arsed with the pontificating of such conferences.

      I wasn't aware that there were Thelemic conferences other than the Notocons.I'd be most interested in finding out about these for sure.


      >Perhaps the whole problem is that we are gearing up the 'scene' with
      Victorian attitudes about what we should be doing?

      Victorian attitudes such as?

      > Crowley couldn't be arsed, it
      seems then at least, with the practicalities, just the dictation. This I
      think sums up some of the major problems in uniting Thelema.

      > We can't remove Thelema from its environment. the entire country is in a serious stage of flux in an election year not to mention being schismed as it is right now.

      >You have a
      small amount of OTO people who very arrogantly think they ARE Thelema, when
      the whole of this various silly organisations are less than 10% of us.

      I know of non OTO people who think they are Thelema.

      > I
      have, nor will ever swear an allegiance to what is essentially a
      crypto-Christian organisation, god, Jung was a member of a brother
      organisation and he was a fucking Jesus fascist.

      the org essentialy has to take an oath at the same time to support such candidates andinitiates. It needs to be called on the carpet when it fails to do taht. This has happened recently and at more than one point in its history.

      Problemis, people just lay back and expect stuff to be done for them. If you"take" an initiation, the word itself implies from the get-go that they will be spoon-fed something. Even if it is made clear later that this is not the case, people in general still expect to be spoon fed as theyare accustomed to in general American culture and its underlying sheep-fodering puritan background.

      > Death to impotent useless
      freemasonry! That old aeon ego will never get through, the Nu-Grail will
      shred it.

      I don't disagree that it would shred it, it just has to freakin' get there in the first plac.e

      > This is the problem of the arrogance of the opinionisation of
      Thelema. You know what I mean, men arguing over who has the greatest article
      or book on the subject (there's no such thing). These men should probably
      take advantage of some of the spam going around these days and they would
      feel less inadequate. Then there is the ignorance of what a Thelemite is. We
      are so varied and different from each other - really, that it is unlikely
      that most will know one from someone they despise as anti-Thelemic, unless
      they are prepared to see!

      It took me a long time to acrtually getting around to saying I am an thelemite, when I was not sure where I was going with it. I wasn't sure how fundamental it was to my progress as an individual. when it was clear I had no qualms saying I was a thelemite. Many are just unsure perhaps exactly where they stand with it and don't want to say for sure until they are.

      > Finally
      the last problem is people not willing to take this to the full and risk
      their life over Thelema, clinging to an empty life rather than taking the
      plunge, is being just the shit stuck to a god's shoe!

      OTOH I've taken the risk, and I have yet to have lots of support from other "thelemites." so maybe that addresses your previous line.

      >To be a Thelemite AND a woman seems to be less prone to these failures.
      There are women who are and have liberated themselves from these
      limitations. I would even argue, more so than the men. If Rose Kelly's life
      is anything to go on, it is a more dangerous path than it is for the men.

      NO fricking kidding there. I am a center o f pestilence even in a center of pestilence. Unfortunatley, despite hard work on issues in the 60s in the broader culture or lack thereof, and laws thereof, women's status in the broader puritan culture is still not enoug diffferent. since groups of course derive members from the general puritan culture we can't expect but to get people with these issues intact.

      >. A list was prepared
      (not by me or anyone I know) and I was wondering if people had any comments
      on it www.greaterthelema.org/sistersofwill/sow/00000006.htm. Some true, are
      not Thelemites at all, but others most definitely are, check them out.

      I am a thelemite and a woman. I will stay that way until my dying day.

      I prefer not to rant, very much anyway, but am busy trying to figure out how to be the arbiter of change.

      93s love sor aena wilt.
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    • 333
      50040508 vii KALI DAY sekhmet20002000: # ...I am sick fed up of males doing the old boys network thing # which seems to prevail in Thelema just as it does
      Message 70 of 70 , May 8, 2004
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        50040508 vii KALI DAY

        #> ...I am sick fed up of males doing the old boys network thing
        #> which seems to prevail in Thelema just as it does everywhere else.

        isn't it troubling? the machinations of those with whom
        we are not allied?

        #> Especially in the OTO,

        is the OTO Thelemic, or 'in Thelema'? who says? what gives you
        (or anyone else for that matter) the impression that it is?
        did they get some kind of Seal of Approval from AEWaite or
        the Goldawnians? wait, they're some germano-pseudo-tantric
        order, with visions of Wandering Bishops dancing in their
        heads, aren't they?

        #> who is worthy to be Caliph etc. who are they
        #> to say who is worthy?

        the upper echelon of Standard-Bearing Thelemic orders
        are servants, primarily, and are not so much 'worthy' as
        in the right social position at the right time. in
        exchange for service they are made available the social
        mechanism of the order to assist their development,
        but the investment of authority or power only obtains
        *within* the social framework, and those outside it who
        for some reason believe that the projections of mages
        are the realities of their own universe constrain
        themselves to very limited views and doom themselves
        accordingly thereby.

        can you believe it?

        #> I was told a long time ago by someone in the OTO that I didn't
        #> need it and the more I hear and see the more I agree with this
        #> statement.

        needing it is only one motivation for being involved in it. there
        are sufficient tempting baubles tossed about in the halls of the
        Thelemic and greater occult community, but these may be found in
        most esoteric communities associated with the societies that be,
        whether in the palaces of Rome or the hovels of the Heathens.
        Super Secret Sex MagicK Formulas, Magestic Universal Medicines
        purporting to be One More Cosmic Panacea are the usual Snake Oils
        peddled by OTO flunkies and their predecessors. do you *need* to
        be immortal or wield the power of the universe as a real mage?

        #> Belonging to an organisation only serves the attachment needs
        #> of the ego

        I've been speaking with numerous interested in Buddhism of late,
        and there appears to be a common perception that attachment is a
        stand-in for the 'suffering' (dukkha) about which the figure of
        Gautama Buddha is said to have prescribed (a kind of witchdoctor).

        in this manner Buddhist ascetics convince their comrades that
        desire is bad, that the ego must be pushed aside or destroyed,
        and that the individual must be subsumed to the motivations and
        aims of the Herd in order to reap the described fabulous reward.

        as many religions grow and develop they seem to employ the tool
        of demonization in their doctrines more and more forcefully in
        order to secure membership, and gather together a cult in the
        wake of the masters devising said doctrines. even when the Herd
        fights and revolutionizes itself, the master-images are left
        securely-intact and worshipped, regardless of their blemishes.

        in the religious community of Thelema this appears to be
        no different. the ego is supposedly connected with "lower"
        spiritual status and lesser power and authority. strength of
        will is either dismissed as a runaway Id or the inspiration
        of a powerful Herd behind the magician. the individual isn't
        afforded the benefit of the doubt as residing within a magic
        Current unless they have followers; unless they somehow have
        been able to secure a social network, hierarchy of adulators,
        or risen to prominence within some structure whereby they
        have survived the scrutiny of their "peers" (i.e. ordeals and
        the hazing, hamstringing debilitations they usually include).

        on the one hand we have the attachment to a 'mother org', such
        as is often promoted by churches, which facilitates personal
        growth and development within the fold. on the other, we have
        an interest in using the organization and its resources for
        an exploited advance by those whose relation is questionably
        valuable on the whole. whether the ego is important to ditch,
        especially given its imperative role in will, is an essential
        point of contention. for those interested in Herd membership,
        ego-destruction and transcendance is surely very important.

        #> so that one feels part of something and can back it
        #> up by ego massaging each other.

        and I guess you don't think that this is a good idea. what
        alternatives would you suggest for the construction of a
        civil community? a loose confraternity of hip individuals
        without a care for one another beyond the day and the surf?

        #> All this is the BOTL real etc blah, blah.

        that the manifest universe is real is obvious. that a book
        with the name is real is obvious. that the book derives
        from some extraspecial origin and has therefore a special
        meaning for the NU Prophets of the Aeon is doubtful.

        #> I know when I do my Will everything is bloody perfect
        #> in my life

        is that what doing your Will yields? things somehow become
        "perfect"? this is the old "success in the world supports
        one's right relation with God" argument. what about Job?

        #> and I don't need any more proof than that Jesus and

        Jesus I can see is dead. long live the Christ Formula!

        #> Christianity is dead as are all the other old
        #> stifling systems.  Crapulous creeds indeed. Sekhmet

        what evidence do you have that these things, given their
        superior power and status to the 'Thelemic' (Horusian?)
        upstarts, have died? usually people point to hollowness
        and hypocrisy in the ranks of the dying and bypassed.
        maybe you think that the New Vietnam Iraqi Crusades are
        part of the Ra Hoor Victory Dance or that the RCatholic
        pederasty charges are going to Bring the Pontif Down,
        where Leo Taxil and his Satanic Revue (Review) failed?

        Becky Brook:
        # ...I have seen this exact same idiocy going on too.
        # It reminds me of just more of the same born again,
        # Christian Sect arguements, and of all places for it
        # to emanate from the OTO.

        so is Thelema a religion too, like Christianity? is it
        in fact an Xtain cult out of control, the madman Beast
        setting in motion a Revelation of such Notoriety that
        it will never recover from its self-indulgence and come
        to see its own old-aeon hypocrisy?

        # It is exactly what you said above here, MORE OF THE
        # ITS CLAW.

        so attachment is bad, ego is bad, Jeezuz and Xtainanity
        is dead dead dead, and now we should all go kneel at the
        New Incarnation of the ICThYSian splendour? perhaps you
        don't understand how thoroughly you've been conditioned
        to carry on the memes?

        what is "<insert old name of old-regime-that-never-ever-
        to-swear-how-bad-and-rotten-it-really-was here>" going
        to call itself in the NU Aeon so that we can be sure to
        identify it and how we are not that any more? will we be
        able to really tie it to something, like destruction of
        individualism? demonization of egotism? denunciation of
        true loyalty and the social framework that allows groups
        to *compete* with it?

        it's fun to dance on the grave of just-passed gods. too
        bad the powers that be just change the names around and we
        never really get anywhere, dancing to little Slave songs.
        hundreds of years from now they'll be doing the same thing
        and using different names to refer to the same social
        agents and dynamics, nothing learnt, only the exploiters
        any better off and little at that.

        # If anything you would think they would just say, ah,
        # it isn't really me, just acting. But it is no act.
        # AC was adept at the act, knowing how to pop an ego,
        # just by a posture. But the buffoonery I see going on
        # is no act.

        very true, it is sad. maybe if we weren't all so hung
        up posturing and being right we wouldn't have to put
        on faces and making people wrong, falling into the
        program of serving the same Slavemasters that the
        Slaves always serve, certain of our valour and value.

        # 93


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