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[t93] Re: Pasting the Sheets

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  • shamanherb
    ... wrote: 93 Just because hippies came of age at a time when the current of the aeon was coming to fruition does not make them special. If you gave this
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 8, 2003
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      --- In thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com, "John Bonanno" <adigam@a...>
      wrote:
      93
      Just because hippies came of age at a time when the current of the
      aeon was coming to fruition does not make them special. If you gave
      this generation mass quantities of high powered Sandoz acid , cheap
      pot and some decent Rock n Roll, supplied by Government conspiracies
      course, and you might have another "Special Time". The sixties
      sucked, the baby boomers lost the war put down the flowers and picked
      up the guns, now computer powered, of their fathers. Who are all the
      politicians and old aeon yahoos running this place? Baby boomers. If
      any few got enlightened, most have forgotten in favor of whatever
      dogma they are mainlining. Although on the other hand they are pretty
      thelemick motherf**kers when I think about it!
      SHAMANHERBICUS MAXIMUS SUBDECON & HOLY PONTIF OF ERWIGER Hm. Sh.
      > To those who somehow think the "hippies" and the "sixties" have
      > little to do with Thelema I have some questions:
      > Were you there?
      > How did you learn about the sixties if you were not?
      > If you were there what was your experience?
      > If you were there did the sixties change you?
      > Did you know the world before the sixties and can you compare the
      > worlds before and after?
      > Agape Aiwass Thelema
      > JB
      > Fra Diavolo
    • eve cheshier
      ... I was there. ... It was tumultous, andprobably had a lot to do with undoing 50s programming, in a broad sense. ... I m not able to determine how set in
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 9, 2003
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        John Bonanno <adigam@...> wrote:
        >To those who somehow think the "hippies" and the "sixties" have
        >little to do with Thelema I have some questions:
        >Were you there?

        I was there.


        >If you were there what was your experience?

        It was tumultous, andprobably had a lot to do with undoing '50s programming, in a broad sense.


        >If you were there did the sixties change you?

        I'm not able to determine how set in the '50s programming my conditioning might have been. In my case, the 60s coincided with the teen years. maybe that's lucky.


        >Did you know the world before the sixties and can you compare the
        >worlds before and after?

        The unrest in the '60s and the reasons cited for it at the time really shook things up, as far as I could tell, from seeing the Kennedys killed on tv, and knowingthat tv was a new media that was being learned to use, and I remember the 50s enough to know that in a lot of ways what's going on now is a lot worse than the 50s! talk about comparing conservatism! it's as if the surgence of the 60s made it come back even stronger. while I don't know, I'm fairly sure that;'s beenon the minds of conservatives ever since Kent State and before. that they have to do what they can to undo any progress made in the '60s and make sure that everyone is sheep again. they might as well give up.

        93s love sor aena






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      • shamanherb
        ... wrote: Just because the hippies came of age at a time when the aeon was coming to fruition does not make them special. They were pushed by the current not
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 9, 2003
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          --- In thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com, "John Bonanno" <adigam@a...>
          wrote:
          Just because the hippies came of age at a time when the aeon was
          coming to fruition does not make them special. They were pushed by
          the current not the initiators of it. If you gave this generation
          mass quantities of high powered Sandoz acid, cheap pot and some
          decent Rock n' Roll to listen to(all supplied by Government
          conspiracies of course) you might have another "Special Time".
          Although the Gov has learned his lesson, don't give the good stuff to
          the rabble! The sixties affected us all, but were are all
          thies "enlightened hippies" they are off in the corner mainlining
          whatever dogma of the month club snack takes away the shivers until
          they buy another consumer product. They have put down the flowers and
          taken up the guns, now computer powered, of their fathers. Woe unto
          the children of Terra. The wrath of Ra Hoor Khuit is at hand!

          SHAMANHERBICUS MAXIMUS SUBDECON & HIGH PONTIFF OF EARWIGGER SH. HM.

          > To those who somehow think the "hippies" and the "sixties" have
          > little to do with Thelema I have some questions:
          > Were you there?
          > How did you learn about the sixties if you were not?
          > If you were there what was your experience?
          > If you were there did the sixties change you?
          > Did you know the world before the sixties and can you compare the
          > worlds before and after?
          > Agape Aiwass Thelema
          > JB
          > Fra Diavolo
        • John Bonanno
          Care Circulus, ... to do is look at how it manifested... Manson, The Sniper in the Tower, Vietnam, Watts Riots ...one violent display after another
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 11, 2003
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            Care Circulus,


            Alamantra wrote:
            > But as to the whole beauty, peace, love, flower power etc... All one has
            to do is look at how it manifested... Manson, The Sniper in the Tower,
            Vietnam, Watts Riots ...one violent display after another ...Cointellpro
            ...What peace? What love?

            There is another side to each thing. There is over and under. There is
            peace and war. The Sixties began a time when the Many would look for both
            sides of a thing and the within of a thing, rather than to accept the One
            Side placed into one's field of view. If One is used to prodding me with a
            stick and I finally grab his stick and take it away or try to take it away,
            I expect an extreme reaction. Sometimes I think that those who debase the
            Sixties come in two flavors: those who forever resent the upheavel of their
            easy to understand world and those who jealously resent the fact that they
            missed it. Many of use mocked flowers and peace and love at the time even
            as we revelled in the changes. Frank Zappa said "Flower power sucks." and
            it needed to be said but it wasn't necessarilly totally true.

            > Along another line of my own development, I got into punk... I remember
            when the Sex Pistols played Atlanta, and I also saw them on the "Today Show"
            ...The Damned, Circle Jerks, Black Flag etc... And I never saw the 'hippies'
            being anything different than I did the 'punks' ...In many cases the punks
            were the children of hippies. ...Both represent manifestations of the
            'anti-culture' ...and there is always an anti-culture ...That's what real
            rock and roll is. The shit that they call rock and roll ...the product
            ...ISN'T ...Alternative? ...to what? Corporate music?

            The Musical forms that emerged in the sixties prevail even today forty years
            later. Music from forty years before the Sixties largely sounded quaint and
            docile in those days.

            > All one has to do is look at what emerged from what ...We are today
            standing in the 'results' of what happened in the 60's ..and there is one
            truth that emerges from all of it ...Living is easy with eyes closed,
            misunderstanding all you see...

            Yes, but many more know they do not know. In the fifties and before so many
            were so sure.

            > But in terms of correlating Thelema with "Flower Power" ...Thelema is
            about individual will and not about "movements" that are here today and gone
            tomorrow ..Sure, at the time, it did manifest in individuals who we may
            define as hippies ...Abbie Hoffman ...or beatniks: Burroughs, Ginsburg,
            Kerouac ...and since these things were all, in their time, 'Anti-Culture' it
            is natural that anti-culture would connect with its precedents. Just don't
            try to sell me "Thelema" as some kind of New Age panacea for peace, love and
            understanding cause I'll throw up on your product.

            Thelema is not a religion and it is not my product. It is undefinable.

            "shamanherb" wrote:> 93
            > Just because hippies came of age at a time when the current of the
            > aeon was coming to fruition does not make them special. If you gave
            > this generation mass quantities of high powered Sandoz acid , cheap
            > pot and some decent Rock n Roll, supplied by Government conspiracies
            > course, and you might have another "Special Time".

            This is rather circular logic. You have just stated that if we brought back
            the sixties, we would have the sixties.

            >The sixties
            > sucked, the baby boomers lost the war put down the flowers and picked
            > up the guns, now computer powered, of their fathers.

            Aspects of the sixties indeed did suck as in any time.

            >Who are all the
            > politicians and old aeon yahoos running this place? Baby boomers. If
            > any few got enlightened, most have forgotten in favor of whatever
            > dogma they are mainlining. Although on the other hand they are pretty
            > thelemick motherf**kers when I think about it!
            > SHAMANHERBICUS MAXIMUS SUBDECON & HOLY PONTIF OF ERWIGER Hm. Sh.

            It is too soon. Have patience brother. Those who obtained the power did so
            by embracing the old formulas. These old formulas are failing now. The
            power is not really there.




            eve cheshier wrote::

            > The unrest in the '60s and the reasons cited for it at the time really
            shook things up, as far as I could tell, from seeing the Kennedys killed on
            tv, and knowingthat tv was a new media that was being learned to use, and I
            remember the 50s enough to know that in a lot of ways what's going on now is
            a lot worse than the 50s! talk about comparing conservatism! it's as if
            the surgence of the 60s made it come back even stronger. while I don't
            know, I'm fairly sure that;'s beenon the minds of conservatives ever since
            Kent State and before. that they have to do what they can to undo any
            progress made in the '60s and make sure that everyone is sheep again. they
            might as well give up.

            Today's conservatives, of course, are not really. They were affected by
            history. They take drugs. They are self-indulgent. They have lost much of
            the sex strictures of the old aeon. But they pretend they are and have not.
            And as a result they are confused and they fear.


            Agape Aiwass Thelema
            Fra Diavolo
            JB
          • Alamantra
            ... From: John Bonanno To: thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 3:49 PM Subject: [t93] Re: Pasting the Sheets ... peace and war. The
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 11, 2003
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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: John Bonanno
              To: thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 3:49 PM
              Subject: [t93] Re: Pasting the Sheets


              JB wrote:

              >There is another side to each thing. There is over and under. There is
              peace and war. The Sixties began a time when the Many would look for both
              sides of a thing and the within of a thing, rather than to accept the One
              Side placed into one's field of view. If One is used to prodding me with a
              stick and I finally grab his stick and take it away or try to take it away,
              I expect an extreme reaction. Sometimes I think that those who debase the
              Sixties come in two flavors: those who forever resent the upheavel of their
              easy to understand world and those who jealously resent the fact that they
              missed it. Many of use mocked flowers and peace and love at the time even
              as we revelled in the changes. Frank Zappa said "Flower power sucks." and
              it needed to be said but it wasn't necessarilly totally true.
              I love St Zappa. He said much that needed to be said but wasn't necessarily true. And I see a lineage through him that goes back through the Beat generation, back through the flappers and speak-easy lifestyle, the Fitzgeralds, back through Crowley, through the Golden Dawn and all the other quetionable theoritical study circles, back through Theosophy, through Blavatsky: and the hash smoking medium scams along with the other Decadents and Symbolists, back to the Hell Fire Club and those who shook the foundations of the world, back further and further as far as you want to go.
              I don't see how one can really debase the 60s in any event, or the 60s as something that can be 'attacked' or 'defended' ...I just don't think that it was MORE indicative of Thelema than any other time... although I once did, and it was a time that I enjoy in terms of cultural by-product awareness... I like much of the music that came from that time. I like the way the writers like Ginsburg, and Leary celebrate the open innocence of the youth culture ...and one could say that this did manifest the energy of Horus the Child, but in all fairness, that would be limiting Horus to a sentimentality; just as it would to identify that same Horus with the more militant punk movement of the 70s, or the grunge scene of the 90s or even the swing era or the first wave of rock and roll, although any description of such could be reasonably portrayed.
              One could point to the advent of the space-age and the beginning of computer technology, but in the case of the former, that actually goes back before the 60s as the space-age properly began in the 50s or even WWII; and in the case of the latter, the computer technology was archaic by today's standards and in its infancy.
              If one wants to point at the upheaval aspect, I would say that the 1860s were more tumultuous in American history in particular.
              If one wants to point to the coming together of the global community, that actually began in earnest pre-WW I and we could note that it still isn't quite together yet... and besides it took a tricky dicky to pave the way into China, and that was in the 70s.
              So my perspective on the 60s isn't one of bitterness or wishing I had been there ...I was there ...although very young; but more of an appreciation of being alive in the NOW where it is most exciting of all. We are in the next millenium, and one wonders how (or if) we'll look back on this 20-40 years hence.
              The dawning of the age of aquarius was a frigging musical and the New Agers all stood outside trying to sell crystals so they could get their tofu fix ...but nothing really got any better or any worse. As you said, we've just become more aware that we really don't know anything. I think that this is one of the most brilliant things that Alan Watts ever taught.

              >The Musical forms that emerged in the sixties prevail even today forty years
              later. Music from forty years before the Sixties largely sounded quaint and
              docile in those days.
              We can see the similarity between the Beatles, Stones, Nirvana and Stone Temple Pilots, and there were some innovations that came about such as the Moog synthesizer, but the Beatles were founded on Rock and Roll which finds soil in the 50s ...LSD made its first introduction in the '50s ...it just wasn't controversial yet. Nor do I think that the music from earlier years is so quaint or docile ...it depends on what you're listening to I guess. "Sing, Sing, Sing" is pretty hot. In terms of "far out" ...Sun Ra was going well before the 60s. Robert Johnson, Screaming Jay Hawkins, Django Reinhardt ...the list is endless. If you want to go back even before, Wagner was heavy metal before there was a rock to roll. ...Not to forget Litz or Paganini. There is nothing absolutely quantifiable about it, but it being recently passed ...within our lifetimes (some of us anyway), it is easy to treasure it in a sentimental way. But the memories of those protests in the 60s were not much different than the protests during the Hoover administration ...Brother can you spare a dime?

              >Yes, but many more know they do not know. In the fifties and before so many
              were so sure.

              I would say that there was a lull in the level of awareness of the general status quo between WWII and the Johnson administration ...the latter part of which media likes to invoke our sentimental notions with the symbol "Camelot" ...but it was the Cold War ...and it was really with the birth of Rock and Roll in the 50s that the structure began to give way. Rock and Roll brought black kids, white kids and latino kids etc together under a common love of music. ...But even before that, the first blows were made ...literally... by the jazz era musicians, and the various people of all races and classes sitting down to smoke a joint together and listen to bee-bop ...It is the very illicit nature of the anti-culture that gives impetus to change. I think that one difference that occured in the 60s (even though, once again taking root in the 50s) is the television age ...The Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show, The first world wide satellite broadcast, the Beatles "All You Need Is Love" etc... (note: Had the Beatles not made a conversion to anti-culture they would be much less significant than they are in terms of sociological history. Originally they were another product ...like Elvis, and Sinatra. However, they made a transition, and in doing so, created a genuine shift of power. This is perhaps the transition when anti-culture plugged into the main culture power supply) Media itself began to create culture rather than just imitate it. Of course, this had been going on before with various propaganda ...It really gained ground with the nazis and then those who had to fight the nazis. Those who created war propaganda really made way for everything else including all we know about marketing and advertising.
              So WWII may be the most indicative period in the 'birth of a new aeon' (if that's what you want to call it.) ...The dawn of the nuclear age. This is more fitting with, "I am the warrior lord of the forties..." and wasn't it Oppenheimer, who upon seeing the first Atomic bomb blast, quote the Bhagavad Gita: "I have become death, the destroyer of worlds." The two statements really seem to have a similar vibe to me. (That would be impressive in terms of a general prophecy considering that it was written in 1904, and certainly when WWI occured, everyone thought that would be "IT" ..It was called "The Great War" ...until WWII happened. The 80s were certainly did cower and were abased. ...AIDS.)

              Thelema is not a Religion and it is not my product. It is undefinable.

              Yes. I agree with this. Thanks for your reply.
              Bliss:
              Alamantra





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