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Re: [t93] Great Work?

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  • Lloyd Keane
    93 Bill, Point taken. 93 93/93 ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 1, 2001
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      93 Bill,
      Point taken.
      93 93/93

      --- Bill Heidrick <heidrick@...> wrote:
      > 93 Lloyd,
      >
      > >Why do we even need to differentiate between "man"
      > and
      > >"God"? "There is no god but man."
      >
      > There are places where there is man but no god.
      >
      > 93 93/93
      > Bill
      >
      >


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    • Mermaid
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. In a message dated 11/01/2001 1:26:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... So is man is God. So is tat tvam asi .
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 1, 2001
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        Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
        In a message dated 11/01/2001 1:26:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
        thelemicwitch@y... writes:

        >> There is no God, but God, where I am
        >>
        >> >Can never be.
        >
        >> It always is.
        >>
        Krishadawn wrote:
        >The statement itself is a duality.

        So is "man is God." So is "tat tvam asi".

        I think that language is inadequate for describing not only the nature
        of the self and the Self and their relationship but any experience
        involving unity -- as it appears to me that language is inherently
        dualistic.

        The phrase 'tat tvam asi' is dualistic in that there is a "thou" and a
        "that". It does, however, *point* to unity - and so, imo, is not without
        some value. (One of my personal favorites is the clumsy "being-itself is
        nearer to the I than the I is to itself." (Tillich, speaking
        symbolically about the relationship of a human being and the divine in
        The Courage to Be.)

        To say "God is God" is true (as all tautologies are) but a phrase in
        which little information is conveyed - to explain the phrase would I
        think involve dualistic statements.

        Love is the law, love under will
        Mermaid

        PS can you think of a phrase that is not a tautology that expresses the
        unity of a human being and the divine?
      • Mermaid
        Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. ... the ... 5. Ohhhhhhh 6. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...... Beautiful! ... Same here. Love is the law, love
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 1, 2001
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          Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

          >>PS can you think of a phrase that is not a tautology that expresses
          the
          >>unity of a human being and the divine?

          Alamantra writes:
          >1. "I Am"
          >2. Aumn.
          >3. Aha!
          >4. Ouch!

          5. Ohhhhhhh
          6. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

          Beautiful!

          >Any statement that can be realized from a subjective state. There is
          >nothing
          >"objective" that one could say that would express it ...as far as I can
          >tell.

          Same here.

          Love is the law, love under will
          mermaid
        • Krishadawn11@aol.com
          In a message dated 11/01/2001 4:46:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, cbailes@home.com writes: (and I d love to think that God s being is becoming ... Thats what it
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 1, 2001
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            In a message dated 11/01/2001 4:46:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
            cbailes@... writes:

            (and I'd love to think that God's being is becoming
            > itself),

            Thats what it seems according to many- ie God is in the going, "To Go", in
            the action, the process *is* the product, etc..


            > > "There is no god but man."
            >
            > I wouldn't take Crowley's word for it, but it may be that "the Word that is
            > God is none other than He."

            That could be taken as another way of stating the above..

            > > The Great Work is
            > > like learning an new language, a new way of viewing
            > > things. Its not simply a change in intellect but a
            > > total shift in perspective.
            >
            > I agree if you believe the shift in perspective is caused by the
            > transformation of the perceiver.

            I like this.


            > > I am quite sure the
            > > perspective "from" Tiferet is different from Malkuth
            > > just as it would be from Binah.
            >
            > I suppose, but I consider the Sephiroth to be emanations in the Gnostic
            > sense of 'Aeon'. They emanate from the source which in turn contains all
            > subsequent emanations. This implies the that the persective from Tiphereth
            > contains the persepctive from Malkuth, though I generally don't take the
            > mere psychological interpretation of Qabalah.


            I love the tree, I hate the tree, I love the tree, I hate the tree...
          • Mermaid
            Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. ... Thank you. ... be a ... Well, alright then -- a conscious burp, I presume. :) Love is the law, love
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 1, 2001
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              Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

              Krishadawn wrote:
              >Nice post and thoughts, by the way.

              Thank you.

              >( If I were to give a statement like you requested, it would probably
              be a
              >Burp. .....Not really a phrase per se.

              Well, alright then -- a 'conscious' burp, I presume. :)

              Love is the law, love under will.
              mermaid
            • cameron
              Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law, ... That man is a finite being and God may be assumed to be an infinite one, the differentiation can be made
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 1, 2001
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                Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law,

                > Why do we even need to differentiate between "man" and
                > "God"?

                That man is a finite being and God may be assumed to be an infinite one, the
                differentiation can be made assuming that there exists an infinite being. I
                think it should also be assumed that the infinite contains its own
                contradiction, its existence is non-existence, its being non-being, etc..
                However, in becoming God (and I'd love to think that God's being is becoming
                itself), I assume one attains through awareness of its intelligible nature.


                > "There is no god but man."

                I wouldn't take Crowley's word for it, but it may be that "the Word that is
                God is none other than He."


                > The Great Work is
                > like learning an new language, a new way of viewing
                > things. Its not simply a change in intellect but a
                > total shift in perspective.

                I agree if you believe the shift in perspective is caused by the
                transformation of the perceiver.


                > I am quite sure the
                > perspective "from" Tiferet is different from Malkuth
                > just as it would be from Binah.

                I suppose, but I consider the Sephiroth to be emanations in the Gnostic
                sense of 'Aeon'. They emanate from the source which in turn contains all
                subsequent emanations. This implies the that the persective from Tiphereth
                contains the persepctive from Malkuth, though I generally don't take the
                mere psychological interpretation of Qabalah.


                Love is the law, love under will,
                Cameron
              • cameron
                Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law, ... Me too, I m thinking of cutting it down to make firewood. Love is the law, love under will, Cameron
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 1, 2001
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                  Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law,

                  > I love the tree, I hate the tree, I love the tree, I hate the tree...

                  Me too, I'm thinking of cutting it down to make firewood.


                  Love is the law, love under will,
                  Cameron
                • cameron
                  Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law, ... in ... Modern chaos theory and thermodynamics has recognized that there exists within the physical
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 1, 2001
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                    Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law,

                    > (and I'd love to think that God's being is becoming
                    > > itself),
                    >
                    > Thats what it seems according to many- ie God is in the going, "To Go",
                    in
                    > the action, the process *is* the product, etc..

                    Modern chaos theory and thermodynamics has recognized that there exists
                    within the physical universe a certain force that increases the order in a
                    system despite the increase of entropy (disorder) over time (Ilya
                    Prigonine's 1977 Nobel Prize). I don't think it would be unsound to
                    consider this the life force of things. My own suspiscion is that this
                    force isn't simply opposing the increase in entropy but actually effecting a
                    detachment from the passage of time, which the force itself is independent
                    of.


                    Love is the law, love under will,
                    Cameron
                  • skr1ptk1dd13@yahoo.com
                    ... Everything is True in Some Sense, False in Some Sense, Meaningless in Some Sense, True and False in Some Sense, True and Meaningless in Some Sense, False
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 1, 2001
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                      --- In thelema93-l@y..., "Joseph Thiebes" <thiebes@p...> wrote:
                      > > >Why do we even need to differentiate between "man" and
                      > > >"God"? "There is no god but man."
                      > >
                      > > There are places where there is man but no god.
                      >
                      > And others where there is no man but God.
                      >
                      > 93 93/93
                      > Joe

                      "Everything is True in Some Sense, False in Some Sense, Meaningless
                      in Some Sense,
                      True and False in Some Sense, True and Meaningless in Some Sense,
                      False and Meaningless in Some Sense,
                      and True and False and Meaningless in Some Sense"
                      -- The Principia Discordia

                      Best Regards,
                      RK

                      Who falls from all he knows of bliss,
                      Cares little into what abyss.
                      -- Byron
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