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  • Julz
    Well, I ve started my research on laptops and PDAs. I want to find a used one. It needn t be anything fancy, as all I want to do is run MS Word and The
    Message 1 of 21 , Jun 2, 2001
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      Well, I've started my research on laptops and PDAs. I want to find a used
      one. It needn't be anything fancy, as all I want to do is run MS Word and
      The Journal on it. It could even be monochrome. It does need to be cheap,
      as the budget is pretty moribund right now...

      I find that the one thing that I miss in keeping my journal on the computer
      is the pleasant feeling of curling up in bed or in a comfy chair and
      writing... I'm thinking that with a small device I can do that! With my
      fibromyalgia I find that my hands get terribly painful if I write my usual
      extended diatribes in longhand, so I do like keyboarding... I'm hoping that
      I can get the best of both worlds this way.

      Any suggestions or ideas, anyone?

      Be Well,
      Julz
      email: julz@...
      AOL IM: GracieMama
      *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
      Check out the WORST pages on the web!
      http://www.julz.cx/

      My Journaling Website:
      http://www.julz.cx/journal/

      ***Gracie's Place~ The Best Dog Ever. ***
      http://www.julz.cx/gracie/

      Buster, the Rhymin' Rescue Dog!
      http://www.julz.cx/buster/

      The ABLEDOGS Web Page:
      http://www.abledogs.net/
      *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
      A merry heart doeth good like a medicine.
      ~Proverbs 17:22

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Tom Plunket [mailto:journal@...]
      Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:42 AM
      To: thejournal-users@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [thejournal-users] Windows ME problems?

      Dan E. Schwarcz wrote:

      > I don't know if there's any particular issue with using The Journal
      > in Windows ME, but I do know that every computer professional
      > I've spoken with avoids ME. In our company we require all new
      > computers to come with Windows 98, and several people whose opinion
      > I respect do the same with their personal computers.
      >
      > Most vendors still offer Windows 98 if you insist on it; I would.
      > That's my two cents, anyway.

      Yep, many vendors don't even offer ME at all. My partner's
      computer has ME, but I'm putting 98se on my newest computer. She
      hasn't had any problems with it that we can attribute to the OS
      (although it does seem to crash a lot, but who ever knows why?),
      but "hardcore gamers" are also avoiding ME like the plague due to
      many incompatibilities with different software packages.

      -tom!

      --
      Tom Plunket tomas@...
      PlayStation2/3D Studio geek
      You seem familiar. Have you been in Halas lately?



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    • Robin Briggs
      I ve had my HP Jornada 820 for 1 1/2 years and it s wonderful. It s like a miniature laptop. It has a 95% full-sized keyboard, yet runs WinCE, so it powers up
      Message 2 of 21 , Jun 3, 2001
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        I've had my HP Jornada 820 for 1 1/2 years and it's wonderful. It's
        like a miniature laptop. It has a 95% full-sized keyboard, yet runs
        WinCE, so it powers up instantly, has Pocket Word and all the other
        stuff on it, etc. You couldn't put The Journal on it, but you could
        do your writing in Pocket Word and export it. They aren't produced
        anymore, but I know people regularly find them on eBay for somewhere
        in the $400s. It's so small and light that I can easily take it
        anywhere, and the battery lasts a ton longer than any laptop.

        --- In thejournal-users@y..., "Julz" <julz@n...> wrote:
        > Well, I've started my research on laptops and PDAs. I want to find
        a used
        > one. It needn't be anything fancy, as all I want to do is run MS
        Word and
        > The Journal on it. It could even be monochrome. It does need to
        be cheap,
        > as the budget is pretty moribund right now...
        >
        > I find that the one thing that I miss in keeping my journal on the
        computer
        > is the pleasant feeling of curling up in bed or in a comfy chair and
        > writing... I'm thinking that with a small device I can do that!
        With my
        > fibromyalgia I find that my hands get terribly painful if I write
        my usual
        > extended diatribes in longhand, so I do like keyboarding... I'm
        hoping that
        > I can get the best of both worlds this way.
        >
        > Any suggestions or ideas, anyone?
        >
        > Be Well,
        > Julz
        > email: julz@n...
        > AOL IM: GracieMama
        > *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
        > Check out the WORST pages on the web!
        > http://www.julz.cx/
        >
        > My Journaling Website:
        > http://www.julz.cx/journal/
        >
        > ***Gracie's Place~ The Best Dog Ever. ***
        > http://www.julz.cx/gracie/
        >
        > Buster, the Rhymin' Rescue Dog!
        > http://www.julz.cx/buster/
        >
        > The ABLEDOGS Web Page:
        > http://www.abledogs.net/
        > *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
        > A merry heart doeth good like a medicine.
        > ~Proverbs 17:22
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Tom Plunket [mailto:journal@f...]
        > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:42 AM
        > To: thejournal-users@y...
        > Subject: Re: [thejournal-users] Windows ME problems?
        >
        > Dan E. Schwarcz wrote:
        >
        > > I don't know if there's any particular issue with using The
        Journal
        > > in Windows ME, but I do know that every computer professional
        > > I've spoken with avoids ME. In our company we require all new
        > > computers to come with Windows 98, and several people whose
        opinion
        > > I respect do the same with their personal computers.
        > >
        > > Most vendors still offer Windows 98 if you insist on it; I would.
        > > That's my two cents, anyway.
        >
        > Yep, many vendors don't even offer ME at all. My partner's
        > computer has ME, but I'm putting 98se on my newest computer. She
        > hasn't had any problems with it that we can attribute to the OS
        > (although it does seem to crash a lot, but who ever knows why?),
        > but "hardcore gamers" are also avoiding ME like the plague due to
        > many incompatibilities with different software packages.
        >
        > -tom!
        >
        > --
        > Tom Plunket tomas@f...
        > PlayStation2/3D Studio geek
        > You seem familiar. Have you been in Halas lately?
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > Get $45 in Coupons Now!
        > Get $45 in Coupons Now!
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        685:N/
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        tid=1&hid=7&pcid=181&bid=coupons!!&pcid
        > src=1>
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > thejournal-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
        > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Julz
        Yes!! This sounds like EXACTLY what I m looking for! Thank you, Robin!! Be Well, Julz email: julz@net66.com AOL IM: GracieMama *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Check out
        Message 3 of 21 , Jun 3, 2001
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          Yes!! This sounds like EXACTLY what I'm looking for!

          Thank you, Robin!!

          Be Well,
          Julz
          email: julz@...
          AOL IM: GracieMama
          *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
          Check out the WORST pages on the web!
          http://www.julz.cx/

          My Journaling Website:
          http://www.julz.cx/journal/

          ***Gracie's Place~ The Best Dog Ever. ***
          http://www.julz.cx/gracie/

          Buster, the Rhymin' Rescue Dog!
          http://www.julz.cx/buster/

          The ABLEDOGS Web Page:
          http://www.abledogs.net/
          *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
          A merry heart doeth good like a medicine.
          ~Proverbs 17:22

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Robin Briggs [mailto:doohickey98@...]
          Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 9:31 AM
          To: thejournal-users@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [thejournal-users] Re: Researching...

          I've had my HP Jornada 820 for 1 1/2 years and it's wonderful. It's
          like a miniature laptop. It has a 95% full-sized keyboard, yet runs
          WinCE, so it powers up instantly, has Pocket Word and all the other
          stuff on it, etc. You couldn't put The Journal on it, but you could
          do your writing in Pocket Word and export it. They aren't produced
          anymore, but I know people regularly find them on eBay for somewhere
          in the $400s. It's so small and light that I can easily take it
          anywhere, and the battery lasts a ton longer than any laptop.

          --- In thejournal-users@y..., "Julz" <julz@n...> wrote:
          > Well, I've started my research on laptops and PDAs. I want to find
          a used
          > one. It needn't be anything fancy, as all I want to do is run MS
          Word and
          > The Journal on it. It could even be monochrome. It does need to
          be cheap,
          > as the budget is pretty moribund right now...
          >
          > I find that the one thing that I miss in keeping my journal on the
          computer
          > is the pleasant feeling of curling up in bed or in a comfy chair and
          > writing... I'm thinking that with a small device I can do that!
          With my
          > fibromyalgia I find that my hands get terribly painful if I write
          my usual
          > extended diatribes in longhand, so I do like keyboarding... I'm
          hoping that
          > I can get the best of both worlds this way.
          >
          > Any suggestions or ideas, anyone?
          >
          > Be Well,
          > Julz
          > email: julz@n...
          > AOL IM: GracieMama
          > *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
          > Check out the WORST pages on the web!
          > http://www.julz.cx/
          >
          > My Journaling Website:
          > http://www.julz.cx/journal/
          >
          > ***Gracie's Place~ The Best Dog Ever. ***
          > http://www.julz.cx/gracie/
          >
          > Buster, the Rhymin' Rescue Dog!
          > http://www.julz.cx/buster/
          >
          > The ABLEDOGS Web Page:
          > http://www.abledogs.net/
          > *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
          > A merry heart doeth good like a medicine.
          > ~Proverbs 17:22
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Tom Plunket [mailto:journal@f...]
          > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:42 AM
          > To: thejournal-users@y...
          > Subject: Re: [thejournal-users] Windows ME problems?
          >
          > Dan E. Schwarcz wrote:
          >
          > > I don't know if there's any particular issue with using The
          Journal
          > > in Windows ME, but I do know that every computer professional
          > > I've spoken with avoids ME. In our company we require all new
          > > computers to come with Windows 98, and several people whose
          opinion
          > > I respect do the same with their personal computers.
          > >
          > > Most vendors still offer Windows 98 if you insist on it; I would.
          > > That's my two cents, anyway.
          >
          > Yep, many vendors don't even offer ME at all. My partner's
          > computer has ME, but I'm putting 98se on my newest computer. She
          > hasn't had any problems with it that we can attribute to the OS
          > (although it does seem to crash a lot, but who ever knows why?),
          > but "hardcore gamers" are also avoiding ME like the plague due to
          > many incompatibilities with different software packages.
          >
          > -tom!
          >
          > --
          > Tom Plunket tomas@f...
          > PlayStation2/3D Studio geek
          > You seem familiar. Have you been in Halas lately?
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > Get $45 in Coupons Now!
          > Get $45 in Coupons Now!
          >
          < http://rd.yahoo.com/M=200543.1447537.3024212.2/D=egroupmail/S=1700208
          685:N/
          > A=674091/* http://yahoo.nesteggz.com/?
          tid=1&hid=7&pcid=181&bid=coupons!!&pcid
          > src=1>
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > thejournal-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
          > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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        • Robin Briggs
          Glad I could help. If you have trouble finding it or want more information, you could join the listserv for the Jornada (yes, it s nerdy, but pretty helpful).
          Message 4 of 21 , Jun 3, 2001
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            Glad I could help. If you have trouble finding it or want more
            information, you could join the listserv for the Jornada (yes, it's
            nerdy, but pretty helpful). It's here: http://jornada.listbot.com/

            Bye.

            --- In thejournal-users@y..., "Julz" <julz@n...> wrote:
            > Yes!! This sounds like EXACTLY what I'm looking for!
            >
            > Thank you, Robin!!
          • Tom Plunket
            ... Although you d have to use something other than Word (believe me, there are MUCH better alternatives), I d suggest something on the Palm Computing
            Message 5 of 21 , Jun 4, 2001
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              Robin Briggs wrote:

              > I've had my HP Jornada 820 for 1 1/2 years and it's wonderful. It's
              > like a miniature laptop. It has a 95% full-sized keyboard, yet runs
              > WinCE, so it powers up instantly, has Pocket Word and all the other
              > stuff on it, etc.

              Although you'd have to use something other than Word (believe me,
              there are MUCH better alternatives), I'd suggest something on the
              Palm Computing platform. Batteries last WAAY longer, keyboard is
              full-size, and Palm-platform computers are far more stable than
              WinCE/PocketPC-based solutions.

              -tom!

              --
              Tom Plunket tomas@...
              PlayStation2/3D Studio geek
              Change is inevitable. Progress is not.
            • Robin Briggs
              ... I want to point out that it may have a separate full-sized keyboard, but last I checked, this is a unit that sits flat on a surface, onto which you attach
              Message 6 of 21 , Jun 4, 2001
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                --- In thejournal-users@y..., Tom Plunket <journal@f...> wrote:
                > Although you'd have to use something other than Word (believe me,
                > there are MUCH better alternatives), I'd suggest something on the
                > Palm Computing platform. Batteries last WAAY longer, keyboard is
                > full-size, and Palm-platform computers are far more stable than
                > WinCE/PocketPC-based solutions.

                I want to point out that it may have a separate full-sized keyboard,
                but last I checked, this is a unit that sits flat on a surface, onto
                which you attach the Palm device. The Jornada is all integrated, like
                a mini laptop. Which means it can be on your lap without having to
                juggle anything around.

                I say this because I used to own a Palm, and when I found out that
                the keyboard-as-separate-piece was the only option for having a
                keyboard, that they don't make a Palm machine with a laptop-type form
                factor, I started looking around. For me, anyway, being able to sit
                in bed and type is a big plus, and I don't see how you can do that
                very well with the clip-on keyboard.

                And I'll stop there, I don't want to get into some kind of
                competitive thing. I make no money off of sales of WinCE or HP. ;-)
              • Tom Plunket
                ... True, it d be tough to do it in bed. That s why I prefer generally pulling out the pen and scribbling. With a speed-booster you can actually write
                Message 7 of 21 , Jun 4, 2001
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                  Robin Briggs wrote:

                  > I want to point out that it may have a separate full-sized keyboard,
                  > but last I checked, this is a unit that sits flat on a surface, onto
                  > which you attach the Palm device.

                  True, it'd be tough to do it in bed. That's why I prefer
                  generally pulling out the pen and scribbling. With a
                  speed-booster you can actually write relatively quickly (I
                  presently have my Palm Vx running at 33MHz, but from the factory
                  it's set only to 16MHz).

                  Different strokes for different folks, no pun intended. ;) I
                  could never "get the feeling" of typing in bed, just never worked
                  for me in any respect.

                  > And I'll stop there, I don't want to get into some kind of
                  > competitive thing. I make no money off of sales of WinCE or HP. ;-)

                  I live for it though. ;) (sorry)

                  Anyway- to the OP, a cheap used laptop may be the way to go;
                  browse Ebay. I picked up a Pentium100 laptop a few years back
                  for $340, and if you want to run Windows apps, there's no
                  alternative to having a full PC. It's a little slow, but The
                  Journal runs as snappy as I could want on it. Only problem is
                  that battery life isn't worth anything (maybe 30 minutes? ick)...
                  So I just plug it in.

                  -tom!

                  --
                  Tom Plunket tomas@...
                  PlayStation2/3D Studio geek
                  What do you mean, it doesn't work? It worked fine yesterday...
                • Kenneth S. Rhee
                  There seems to be some confusion, and let me see if I can clarify. Both Palm and Pocket PC (Formerly called WinCE machines) do not have physical keyboards.
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jun 4, 2001
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                    There seems to be some confusion, and let me see if I can clarify.

                    Both Palm and Pocket PC (Formerly called WinCE machines) do not have
                    physical keyboards. They both have a virtual keyboard. You can purchase a
                    physical keyboard to attach to either machines. It just turns out Palm has
                    more options than Pocket PC's on keyboard and any other peripheral devices
                    as well as software.

                    Now, there is another machine category called mini laptops. HP calls both
                    machines Jourdana, and thus confusion. Those machines have not been popular
                    given its size and functional limitations (i.e., they are too big to fit
                    into your shirt pocket).

                    Palm has a folding keyboard that is not stable, but it does have other
                    keyboards that are stable enough to type on your lap or in bed.

                    Hope this helps.

                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Robin Briggs [mailto:doohickey98@...]
                    > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 2:42 PM
                    > To: thejournal-users@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [thejournal-users] Re: Researching...
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In thejournal-users@y..., Tom Plunket <journal@f...> wrote:
                    > > Although you'd have to use something other than Word (believe me,
                    > > there are MUCH better alternatives), I'd suggest something on the
                    > > Palm Computing platform. Batteries last WAAY longer, keyboard is
                    > > full-size, and Palm-platform computers are far more stable than
                    > > WinCE/PocketPC-based solutions.
                    >
                    > I want to point out that it may have a separate full-sized keyboard,
                    > but last I checked, this is a unit that sits flat on a surface, onto
                    > which you attach the Palm device. The Jornada is all integrated, like
                    > a mini laptop. Which means it can be on your lap without having to
                    > juggle anything around.
                    >
                    > I say this because I used to own a Palm, and when I found out that
                    > the keyboard-as-separate-piece was the only option for having a
                    > keyboard, that they don't make a Palm machine with a laptop-type form
                    > factor, I started looking around. For me, anyway, being able to sit
                    > in bed and type is a big plus, and I don't see how you can do that
                    > very well with the clip-on keyboard.
                    >
                    > And I'll stop there, I don't want to get into some kind of
                    > competitive thing. I make no money off of sales of WinCE or HP. ;-)
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > thejournal-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Tom Plunket
                    ... No confusion; indeed all of the Jornadas that I ve seen were WinCE machines and did have keyboards physically attached and unremovable. -tom! -- Tom
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jun 4, 2001
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                      Kenneth S. Rhee wrote:

                      > There seems to be some confusion, and let me see if I can clarify.
                      >
                      > Both Palm and Pocket PC (Formerly called WinCE machines) do not have
                      > physical keyboards. They both have a virtual keyboard. You can purchase a
                      > physical keyboard to attach to either machines. It just turns out Palm has
                      > more options than Pocket PC's on keyboard and any other peripheral devices
                      > as well as software.

                      No confusion; indeed all of the Jornadas that I've seen were
                      WinCE machines and did have keyboards physically attached and
                      unremovable.


                      -tom!

                      --
                      Tom Plunket tomas@...
                      PlayStation2/3D Studio geek
                      Must... play... EverQuest...
                    • Steve Sutton
                      Hmm - close, but .... ... Pocket PC s are a style of machine which run a flavor of WinCE. There are others. ... that would be Jornada .... and they aren t
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jun 4, 2001
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                        Hmm - close, but ....

                        At 05:07 PM 6/4/2001, your fingers spake thusly:

                        >There seems to be some confusion, and let me see if I can clarify.
                        >
                        >Both Palm and Pocket PC (Formerly called WinCE machines) do not have

                        Pocket PC's are a style of machine which run a flavor of WinCE. There are
                        others.

                        >physical keyboards. They both have a virtual keyboard. You can purchase a
                        >physical keyboard to attach to either machines. It just turns out Palm has
                        >more options than Pocket PC's on keyboard and any other peripheral devices
                        >as well as software.
                        >
                        >Now, there is another machine category called mini laptops. HP calls both
                        >machines Jourdana,

                        that would be Jornada .... and they aren't called "mini laptops" - they are
                        called "handheld PC". They do run WinCE, and do have a built in keyboard.
                        The name at the time for that flavor of WinCE was "Windows CE, Handheld PC
                        Professional" (whew!). However, even there can be confusion - HP originally
                        tried 2 levels of handheld - one which was of a size that one might
                        consider it a "mini laptop", and others which are even smaller. The
                        mini-laptop, such as the 820 (I believe 8xx was mentioned earlier in the
                        conversation?), has a display at 640x480, with a keyboard 90% full size,
                        and was 9.7" x 7" x 1.3" and 2.5 lbs. HP does not currently have a model of
                        this style in production. I think there was at least one other vendor who
                        offered a machine in a similar form factor.

                        The smaller "handheld" models are 640x240, and the keyboard is 75% normal
                        size (that's what their specs say, sure feels smaller than that to me), and
                        is 7.44" x 3.74" x 1.34" and 1.1 lbs. Current versions are the 7xx series.
                        These run yet another version of WinCE called "Windows for Handheld PC".
                        This keyboard is small enough that most folks won't be able to do full
                        touch-typing - I had to drop back to 2-finger typing. Still, I could input
                        to it much faster than I can use a stylus for input via writing on either a
                        pocket-pc or a palm-based palmtop. There were (are?) several vendors
                        offering machines in this form factor.

                        And then there are the smaller machines with no keyboard, that tend to look
                        similar in size - although usually thicker and heavier - than the Palm and
                        Handspring (and Sony, et al) PDA's. These are the Pocket PC's - they run a
                        version of WinCE called "Windows for Pocket PC".


                        I've used them all, and currently have a Visor. But if I could get my hands
                        on an iPaq 3670, I'd be gone from the Visor and back to a Pocket PC style
                        PDA in a second.

                        As to what I'd recommend? It really and truly depends on what you want to
                        use it for - I'd let that determine whether I wanted a WinCE- of Palm-
                        based machine, and if WinCE, which form factor.

                        cheers,
                        steve

                        >and thus confusion. Those machines have not been popular
                        >given its size and functional limitations (i.e., they are too big to fit
                        >into your shirt pocket).
                        >
                        >Palm has a folding keyboard that is not stable, but it does have other
                        >keyboards that are stable enough to type on your lap or in bed.
                        >
                        >Hope this helps.
                        >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: Robin Briggs [mailto:doohickey98@...]
                        > > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 2:42 PM
                        > > To: thejournal-users@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: [thejournal-users] Re: Researching...
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In thejournal-users@y..., Tom Plunket <journal@f...> wrote:
                        > > > Although you'd have to use something other than Word (believe me,
                        > > > there are MUCH better alternatives), I'd suggest something on the
                        > > > Palm Computing platform. Batteries last WAAY longer, keyboard is
                        > > > full-size, and Palm-platform computers are far more stable than
                        > > > WinCE/PocketPC-based solutions.
                        > >
                        > > I want to point out that it may have a separate full-sized keyboard,
                        > > but last I checked, this is a unit that sits flat on a surface, onto
                        > > which you attach the Palm device. The Jornada is all integrated, like
                        > > a mini laptop. Which means it can be on your lap without having to
                        > > juggle anything around.
                        > >
                        > > I say this because I used to own a Palm, and when I found out that
                        > > the keyboard-as-separate-piece was the only option for having a
                        > > keyboard, that they don't make a Palm machine with a laptop-type form
                        > > factor, I started looking around. For me, anyway, being able to sit
                        > > in bed and type is a big plus, and I don't see how you can do that
                        > > very well with the clip-on keyboard.
                        > >
                        > > And I'll stop there, I don't want to get into some kind of
                        > > competitive thing. I make no money off of sales of WinCE or HP. ;-)
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > thejournal-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        >thejournal-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >>>>>>>> End quote <<<<<<<<
                      • Julz
                        I appreciate all the input! I went to eBay, Yahoo Auctions, and uBid and did some browsing and got a tad confused. I am looking for the option of a
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jun 4, 2001
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I appreciate all the input! I went to eBay, Yahoo Auctions, and uBid and
                          did some browsing and got a tad confused. I am looking for the option of a
                          keyboard, simply because I have a lot more trouble writing in longhand these
                          days, and I know how wordy I can get!

                          Ah, well. It's not like I'll be able to afford much of anything right away
                          anyway, so I'll just stay in the data-gathering mode for a while longerÂ…

                          Thanks, everyone. I knew I could count on some good options and opinions
                          from this group. Such an advantage to be on a literate bunch like this! :-)

                          Be Well,
                          Julz
                          email: julz@...
                          AOL IM: GracieMama
                          *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
                          Check out the WORST pages on the web!
                          http://www.julz.cx/

                          My Journaling Website:
                          http://www.julz.cx/journal/

                          ***Gracie's Place~ The Best Dog Ever. ***
                          http://www.julz.cx/gracie/

                          Buster, the Rhymin' Rescue Dog!
                          http://www.julz.cx/buster/

                          The ABLEDOGS Web Page:
                          http://www.abledogs.net/
                          *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
                          A merry heart doeth good like a medicine.
                          ~Proverbs 17:22

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Tom Plunket [mailto:journal@...]
                          Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 1:53 PM
                          To: thejournal-users@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [thejournal-users] Re: Researching...

                          Robin Briggs wrote:

                          > I want to point out that it may have a separate full-sized keyboard,
                          > but last I checked, this is a unit that sits flat on a surface, onto
                          > which you attach the Palm device.

                          True, it'd be tough to do it in bed. That's why I prefer
                          generally pulling out the pen and scribbling. With a
                          speed-booster you can actually write relatively quickly (I
                          presently have my Palm Vx running at 33MHz, but from the factory
                          it's set only to 16MHz).

                          Different strokes for different folks, no pun intended. ;) I
                          could never "get the feeling" of typing in bed, just never worked
                          for me in any respect.

                          > And I'll stop there, I don't want to get into some kind of
                          > competitive thing. I make no money off of sales of WinCE or HP. ;-)

                          I live for it though. ;) (sorry)

                          Anyway- to the OP, a cheap used laptop may be the way to go;
                          browse Ebay. I picked up a Pentium100 laptop a few years back
                          for $340, and if you want to run Windows apps, there's no
                          alternative to having a full PC. It's a little slow, but The
                          Journal runs as snappy as I could want on it. Only problem is
                          that battery life isn't worth anything (maybe 30 minutes? ick)...
                          So I just plug it in.

                          -tom!

                          --
                          Tom Plunket tomas@...
                          PlayStation2/3D Studio geek
                          What do you mean, it doesn't work? It worked fine yesterday...



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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Julz
                          Can something be confusing and clarifying at the same time?? :-) My advantage- that I never truly considered an advantage until now- is that I m pretty sure
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jun 4, 2001
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Can something be confusing and clarifying at the same time?? :-)

                            My advantage- that I never truly considered an advantage until now- is that
                            I'm pretty sure that I could use a really dinky keyboard. I have extremely
                            small hands. Small enough that I got kicked out of a Pinochle Anonymous
                            group because I could not hold on to all those blasted cards!

                            Be Well,
                            Julz
                            email: julz@...
                            AOL IM: GracieMama
                            *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
                            Check out the WORST pages on the web!
                            http://www.julz.cx/

                            My Journaling Website:
                            http://www.julz.cx/journal/

                            ***Gracie's Place~ The Best Dog Ever. ***
                            http://www.julz.cx/gracie/

                            Buster, the Rhymin' Rescue Dog!
                            http://www.julz.cx/buster/

                            The ABLEDOGS Web Page:
                            http://www.abledogs.net/
                            *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
                            A merry heart doeth good like a medicine.
                            ~Proverbs 17:22

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Steve Sutton [mailto:sfsutton@...]
                            Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 7:47 PM
                            To: thejournal-users@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [thejournal-users] Re: Researching...

                            Hmm - close, but ....

                            At 05:07 PM 6/4/2001, your fingers spake thusly:

                            >There seems to be some confusion, and let me see if I can clarify.
                            >
                            >Both Palm and Pocket PC (Formerly called WinCE machines) do not have

                            Pocket PC's are a style of machine which run a flavor of WinCE. There are
                            others.

                            >physical keyboards. They both have a virtual keyboard. You can purchase a
                            >physical keyboard to attach to either machines. It just turns out Palm has
                            >more options than Pocket PC's on keyboard and any other peripheral devices
                            >as well as software.
                            >
                            >Now, there is another machine category called mini laptops. HP calls both
                            >machines Jourdana,

                            that would be Jornada .... and they aren't called "mini laptops" - they are
                            called "handheld PC". They do run WinCE, and do have a built in keyboard.
                            The name at the time for that flavor of WinCE was "Windows CE, Handheld PC
                            Professional" (whew!). However, even there can be confusion - HP originally
                            tried 2 levels of handheld - one which was of a size that one might
                            consider it a "mini laptop", and others which are even smaller. The
                            mini-laptop, such as the 820 (I believe 8xx was mentioned earlier in the
                            conversation?), has a display at 640x480, with a keyboard 90% full size,
                            and was 9.7" x 7" x 1.3" and 2.5 lbs. HP does not currently have a model of
                            this style in production. I think there was at least one other vendor who
                            offered a machine in a similar form factor.

                            The smaller "handheld" models are 640x240, and the keyboard is 75% normal
                            size (that's what their specs say, sure feels smaller than that to me), and
                            is 7.44" x 3.74" x 1.34" and 1.1 lbs. Current versions are the 7xx series.
                            These run yet another version of WinCE called "Windows for Handheld PC".
                            This keyboard is small enough that most folks won't be able to do full
                            touch-typing - I had to drop back to 2-finger typing. Still, I could input
                            to it much faster than I can use a stylus for input via writing on either a
                            pocket-pc or a palm-based palmtop. There were (are?) several vendors
                            offering machines in this form factor.

                            And then there are the smaller machines with no keyboard, that tend to look
                            similar in size - although usually thicker and heavier - than the Palm and
                            Handspring (and Sony, et al) PDA's. These are the Pocket PC's - they run a
                            version of WinCE called "Windows for Pocket PC".


                            I've used them all, and currently have a Visor. But if I could get my hands
                            on an iPaq 3670, I'd be gone from the Visor and back to a Pocket PC style
                            PDA in a second.

                            As to what I'd recommend? It really and truly depends on what you want to
                            use it for - I'd let that determine whether I wanted a WinCE- of Palm-
                            based machine, and if WinCE, which form factor.

                            cheers,
                            steve

                            >and thus confusion. Those machines have not been popular
                            >given its size and functional limitations (i.e., they are too big to fit
                            >into your shirt pocket).
                            >
                            >Palm has a folding keyboard that is not stable, but it does have other
                            >keyboards that are stable enough to type on your lap or in bed.
                            >
                            >Hope this helps.
                            >
                            > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > From: Robin Briggs [mailto:doohickey98@...]
                            > > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 2:42 PM
                            > > To: thejournal-users@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: [thejournal-users] Re: Researching...
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In thejournal-users@y..., Tom Plunket <journal@f...> wrote:
                            > > > Although you'd have to use something other than Word (believe me,
                            > > > there are MUCH better alternatives), I'd suggest something on the
                            > > > Palm Computing platform. Batteries last WAAY longer, keyboard is
                            > > > full-size, and Palm-platform computers are far more stable than
                            > > > WinCE/PocketPC-based solutions.
                            > >
                            > > I want to point out that it may have a separate full-sized keyboard,
                            > > but last I checked, this is a unit that sits flat on a surface, onto
                            > > which you attach the Palm device. The Jornada is all integrated, like
                            > > a mini laptop. Which means it can be on your lap without having to
                            > > juggle anything around.
                            > >
                            > > I say this because I used to own a Palm, and when I found out that
                            > > the keyboard-as-separate-piece was the only option for having a
                            > > keyboard, that they don't make a Palm machine with a laptop-type form
                            > > factor, I started looking around. For me, anyway, being able to sit
                            > > in bed and type is a big plus, and I don't see how you can do that
                            > > very well with the clip-on keyboard.
                            > >
                            > > And I'll stop there, I don't want to get into some kind of
                            > > competitive thing. I make no money off of sales of WinCE or HP. ;-)
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > > thejournal-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            >thejournal-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >>>>>>>> End quote <<<<<<<<




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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Robin Briggs
                            Julz, I d say you need to look at some of these things before you bid on them. If you can, go to a computer store, or even something like Staples, and see what
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jun 5, 2001
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Julz, I'd say you need to look at some of these things before you bid on them. If you can, go to a computer store, or even something like Staples, and see what the form factor of the various machines are. By form factor I mean the shape and size and weight. You may look at the Palm Pilot and PocketPC things, really small, and decide that you like how you can fit them in your purse and carry along a fold-up keyboard. Or you may look at the larger Handheld PCs or even laptops and realize that you like the larger screen. There have been a lot of heated messages about operating systems and software and whatnot, and that's fine, but if the machine's shape and size don't work for you, it doesn't really matter how it runs, you won't use it.

                              I will add that when I went to make the decision, I wanted as close to a full-sized keyboard as I could get and have as large a screen as I could get - I have bad eyesight. A laptop was kind of expensive for me, the batteries are nothing compared to the Jornada (they last 10 hours on the Jornada, you won't find that in any laptop) and the machine is instantly on, nothing to boot up. But lots of people here had other totally valid points. So, I think for you it comes down to how it feels in your hands and on your eyes.

                              Hope we haven't all totally confused you...
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Julz
                              To: thejournal-users@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:39 PM
                              Subject: RE: [thejournal-users] Re: Researching...


                              Can something be confusing and clarifying at the same time?? :-)

                              My advantage- that I never truly considered an advantage until now- is that
                              I'm pretty sure that I could use a really dinky keyboard. I have extremely
                              small hands. Small enough that I got kicked out of a Pinochle Anonymous
                              group because I could not hold on to all those blasted cards!

                              Be Well,
                              Julz
                              email: julz@...
                              AOL IM: GracieMama
                              *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
                              Check out the WORST pages on the web!
                              http://www.julz.cx/

                              My Journaling Website:
                              http://www.julz.cx/journal/

                              ***Gracie's Place~ The Best Dog Ever. ***
                              http://www.julz.cx/gracie/

                              Buster, the Rhymin' Rescue Dog!
                              http://www.julz.cx/buster/

                              The ABLEDOGS Web Page:
                              http://www.abledogs.net/
                              *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
                              A merry heart doeth good like a medicine.
                              ~Proverbs 17:22

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Steve Sutton [mailto:sfsutton@...]
                              Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 7:47 PM
                              To: thejournal-users@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [thejournal-users] Re: Researching...

                              Hmm - close, but ....

                              At 05:07 PM 6/4/2001, your fingers spake thusly:

                              >There seems to be some confusion, and let me see if I can clarify.
                              >
                              >Both Palm and Pocket PC (Formerly called WinCE machines) do not have

                              Pocket PC's are a style of machine which run a flavor of WinCE. There are
                              others.

                              >physical keyboards. They both have a virtual keyboard. You can purchase a
                              >physical keyboard to attach to either machines. It just turns out Palm has
                              >more options than Pocket PC's on keyboard and any other peripheral devices
                              >as well as software.
                              >
                              >Now, there is another machine category called mini laptops. HP calls both
                              >machines Jourdana,

                              that would be Jornada .... and they aren't called "mini laptops" - they are
                              called "handheld PC". They do run WinCE, and do have a built in keyboard.
                              The name at the time for that flavor of WinCE was "Windows CE, Handheld PC
                              Professional" (whew!). However, even there can be confusion - HP originally
                              tried 2 levels of handheld - one which was of a size that one might
                              consider it a "mini laptop", and others which are even smaller. The
                              mini-laptop, such as the 820 (I believe 8xx was mentioned earlier in the
                              conversation?), has a display at 640x480, with a keyboard 90% full size,
                              and was 9.7" x 7" x 1.3" and 2.5 lbs. HP does not currently have a model of
                              this style in production. I think there was at least one other vendor who
                              offered a machine in a similar form factor.

                              The smaller "handheld" models are 640x240, and the keyboard is 75% normal
                              size (that's what their specs say, sure feels smaller than that to me), and
                              is 7.44" x 3.74" x 1.34" and 1.1 lbs. Current versions are the 7xx series.
                              These run yet another version of WinCE called "Windows for Handheld PC".
                              This keyboard is small enough that most folks won't be able to do full
                              touch-typing - I had to drop back to 2-finger typing. Still, I could input
                              to it much faster than I can use a stylus for input via writing on either a
                              pocket-pc or a palm-based palmtop. There were (are?) several vendors
                              offering machines in this form factor.

                              And then there are the smaller machines with no keyboard, that tend to look
                              similar in size - although usually thicker and heavier - than the Palm and
                              Handspring (and Sony, et al) PDA's. These are the Pocket PC's - they run a
                              version of WinCE called "Windows for Pocket PC".


                              I've used them all, and currently have a Visor. But if I could get my hands
                              on an iPaq 3670, I'd be gone from the Visor and back to a Pocket PC style
                              PDA in a second.

                              As to what I'd recommend? It really and truly depends on what you want to
                              use it for - I'd let that determine whether I wanted a WinCE- of Palm-
                              based machine, and if WinCE, which form factor.

                              cheers,
                              steve

                              >and thus confusion. Those machines have not been popular
                              >given its size and functional limitations (i.e., they are too big to fit
                              >into your shirt pocket).
                              >
                              >Palm has a folding keyboard that is not stable, but it does have other
                              >keyboards that are stable enough to type on your lap or in bed.
                              >
                              >Hope this helps.
                              >
                              > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > From: Robin Briggs [mailto:doohickey98@...]
                              > > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 2:42 PM
                              > > To: thejournal-users@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Subject: [thejournal-users] Re: Researching...
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In thejournal-users@y..., Tom Plunket <journal@f...> wrote:
                              > > > Although you'd have to use something other than Word (believe me,
                              > > > there are MUCH better alternatives), I'd suggest something on the
                              > > > Palm Computing platform. Batteries last WAAY longer, keyboard is
                              > > > full-size, and Palm-platform computers are far more stable than
                              > > > WinCE/PocketPC-based solutions.
                              > >
                              > > I want to point out that it may have a separate full-sized keyboard,
                              > > but last I checked, this is a unit that sits flat on a surface, onto
                              > > which you attach the Palm device. The Jornada is all integrated, like
                              > > a mini laptop. Which means it can be on your lap without having to
                              > > juggle anything around.
                              > >
                              > > I say this because I used to own a Palm, and when I found out that
                              > > the keyboard-as-separate-piece was the only option for having a
                              > > keyboard, that they don't make a Palm machine with a laptop-type form
                              > > factor, I started looking around. For me, anyway, being able to sit
                              > > in bed and type is a big plus, and I don't see how you can do that
                              > > very well with the clip-on keyboard.
                              > >
                              > > And I'll stop there, I don't want to get into some kind of
                              > > competitive thing. I make no money off of sales of WinCE or HP. ;-)
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > > thejournal-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              >thejournal-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              >>>>>>>> End quote <<<<<<<<




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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Tony Costanzo
                              On the topic of keyboards, I have an IPAQ (which uses Pocket PC). I am currently making daily entries on a program called JournalPro and exporting them as
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jun 5, 2001
                              • 0 Attachment
                                On the topic of keyboards, I have an IPAQ (which uses
                                Pocket PC). I am currently making daily entries on a
                                program called JournalPro and exporting them as text
                                files into David's Journal. (David, if you could get
                                into cahoots with the gentleman who produces this
                                program, the world would be a better place)

                                Anywho, about the data entry;
                                To do this, I am using an text entry program called
                                FITALY. (www.fitaly.com) This program changes the
                                layout of a normal QWERTY keyboard so that it is
                                condusive to the single type taps of a pen stylus.
                                This program is available for Pocket PC as well as
                                Palm Platforms

                                Thanks

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                              • lnoll2@yahoo.com
                                I ve had ME for a half year now and haven t had any problem with it. It does have some nice features, like being able to modify the Start menu items directly
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jun 19, 2001
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                                  I've had ME for a half year now and haven't had any problem with it.
                                  It does have some nice features, like being able to modify the Start
                                  menu items directly with context menu (right mouse button). I got it
                                  on a completely new computer. I did not upgrade from anything
                                  before. The horror stories I've heard are from those who upgraded.
                                  You could, of course, do the same thing by completely wiping your
                                  hard drive and installing it fresh. Good Luck.

                                  -Les
                                • Tom Plunket
                                  ... I would advise against installing it fresh unless you really know what you re doing. I ve been doing this sort of thing for a long time, and it took me an
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jun 19, 2001
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    lnoll2 wrote:

                                    > I've had ME for a half year now and haven't had any problem with it.
                                    > It does have some nice features, like being able to modify the Start
                                    > menu items directly with context menu (right mouse button). I got it
                                    > on a completely new computer. I did not upgrade from anything
                                    > before. The horror stories I've heard are from those who upgraded.
                                    > You could, of course, do the same thing by completely wiping your
                                    > hard drive and installing it fresh.

                                    I would advise against installing it fresh unless you really know
                                    what you're doing. I've been doing this sort of thing for a long
                                    time, and it took me an entire day to get my partner's machine
                                    running again after I wiped the drive to get rid of the
                                    shovelware that ended up on the machine after purchase. WinME
                                    didn't have the drivers for some key components, but it didn't
                                    complain. Instead, it just used some other drivers for different
                                    hardware. <joys> Let the voyager beware. :)

                                    Anyway- you can modify menu items directly in Win98SE also. At
                                    least, as much as I can modify about them in Win2k
                                    (Cut/Copy/Create Shortcut/Rename/Delete/Properties/Sort By Name).

                                    -tom!

                                    --
                                    Tom Plunket tomas@...
                                    PlayStation2/3D Studio geek
                                    "...'cause I'd only ever want to be a toilet or a tree
                                    for a very brief period of time." -King Missile
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