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Re: [thegreatthirdrail] AE&FRE Birney Cars

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  • roygbenedict@juno.com
    If the evidence is that they photographed dark on the usual camera film of the time, it has fooled later-day observers many times already. Hopkins Peffers says
    Message 1 of 7 , May 21, 2007
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      If the evidence is that they photographed dark on the usual camera film of the time, it has
      fooled later-day observers many times already. Hopkins Peffers says (vol. 2, page 14)
      "Originally the cars were all orange. Later, cream trim was added" and he was there, so he
      should know.

      On page 33 he describes the high school colors used as trim on four of the cars.

      You can see on the dust jacket how Gil Reid represented the car colors, perhaps on Hop's
      instructions.

      ROY G. BENEDICT | Publishers' services
      PO Box 368, River Grove IL 60171 � R-Benedict-11@...
      Voice, message and fax: (773) 625-5263
      .
      .

      Does anyone know the color scheme of the AE&FRE Birney cars ?

      Evidence seems to suggest they were originally delivered in a dark
      Pullman green, which I beleive gave way failry quickly to a standard
      traction yellow. Where these cars painted to match the double truck
      lightweight cars (the 300s) ? What color was the roof painted, the
      trucks, etc ?

      Any info greatly appreciated.

      John
    • Joseph Hazinski
      Gil Reid used some color slides of the AE&FR lightweight interurban that I had taken at IRM as a guide to the colors of the Birney car. The painting was
      Message 2 of 7 , May 21, 2007
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        Gil Reid used some color slides of the AE&FR lightweight interurban that I
        had taken at IRM as a guide to the colors of the Birney car. The painting
        was originally done as a Christmas card for Chris Berger who was working for
        the CNW at the time and well before the Peffers books were published. Chris
        has or had the bell from the steam locomotive running up above. While I can
        not be 100% sure that the colors are correct I believe that in the absence
        of actual paint samples these colors are about as close as we can get in
        2007. Perhaps someone in the Electric Car Department at IRM can tell us
        what paint they used and how they arrived at the hues they used. The hand
        colored photo in the first version of CERA Bulletin 105 was done by Doug
        Traxler, a Milwaukee bus driver and former Speedrail operator who has since
        passed away.

        Joe Hazinski


        >From: "roygbenedict@..." <roygbenedict@...>
        >Reply-To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
        >To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] AE&FRE Birney Cars
        >Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 18:15:12 GMT
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        >
        >If the evidence is that they photographed dark on the usual camera film of
        >the time, it has
        >fooled later-day observers many times already. Hopkins Peffers says (vol.
        >2, page 14)
        >"Originally the cars were all orange. Later, cream trim was added" and he
        >was there, so he
        >should know.
        >
        >On page 33 he describes the high school colors used as trim on four of the
        >cars.
        >
        >You can see on the dust jacket how Gil Reid represented the car colors,
        >perhaps on Hop's
        >instructions.
        >
        >ROY G. BENEDICT | Publishers' services
        >PO Box 368, River Grove IL 60171 � R-Benedict-11@...
        >Voice, message and fax: (773) 625-5263
        >.
        >.
        >
        >Does anyone know the color scheme of the AE&FRE Birney cars ?
        >
        >Evidence seems to suggest they were originally delivered in a dark
        >Pullman green, which I beleive gave way failry quickly to a standard
        >traction yellow. Where these cars painted to match the double truck
        >lightweight cars (the 300s) ? What color was the roof painted, the
        >trucks, etc ?
        >
        >Any info greatly appreciated.
        >
        >John
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Scott Greig
        All I can contribute, with regard to the painting of Fox River 306, is that Charlie Ed Arnold was involved with the lettering, if not the overall painting,
        Message 3 of 7 , May 21, 2007
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          All I can contribute, with regard to the painting of
          Fox River 306, is that Charlie "Ed" Arnold was
          involved with the lettering, if not the overall
          painting, and he's been dead for 14 years.

          --- Joseph Hazinski <jrhtrolley@...> wrote:

          > Gil Reid used some color slides of the AE&FR
          > lightweight interurban that I
          > had taken at IRM as a guide to the colors of the
          > Birney car. The painting
          > was originally done as a Christmas card for Chris
          > Berger who was working for
          > the CNW at the time and well before the Peffers
          > books were published. Chris
          > has or had the bell from the steam locomotive
          > running up above. While I can
          > not be 100% sure that the colors are correct I
          > believe that in the absence
          > of actual paint samples these colors are about as
          > close as we can get in
          > 2007. Perhaps someone in the Electric Car
          > Department at IRM can tell us
          > what paint they used and how they arrived at the
          > hues they used. The hand
          > colored photo in the first version of CERA Bulletin
          > 105 was done by Doug
          > Traxler, a Milwaukee bus driver and former Speedrail
          > operator who has since
          > passed away.
          >
          > Joe Hazinski
          >
          >
          > >From: "roygbenedict@..."
          > <roygbenedict@...>
          > >Reply-To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
          > >To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
          > >Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] AE&FRE Birney Cars
          > >Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 18:15:12 GMT
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          > (UTC)
          > >FILETIME=[B1463990:01C79BD4]
          > >
          > >If the evidence is that they photographed dark on
          > the usual camera film of
          > >the time, it has
          > >fooled later-day observers many times already.
          > Hopkins Peffers says (vol.
          > >2, page 14)
          > >"Originally the cars were all orange. Later, cream
          > trim was added" and he
          > >was there, so he
          > >should know.
          > >
          > >On page 33 he describes the high school colors used
          > as trim on four of the
          > >cars.
          > >
          > >You can see on the dust jacket how Gil Reid
          > represented the car colors,
          > >perhaps on Hop's
          > >instructions.
          > >
          > >ROY G. BENEDICT | Publishers' services
          > >PO Box 368, River Grove IL 60171 •
          > R-Benedict-11@...
          > >Voice, message and fax: (773) 625-5263
          > >.
          > >.
          > >
          > >Does anyone know the color scheme of the AE&FRE
          > Birney cars ?
          > >
          > >Evidence seems to suggest they were originally
          > delivered in a dark
          > >Pullman green, which I beleive gave way failry
          > quickly to a standard
          > >traction yellow. Where these cars painted to match
          > the double truck
          > >lightweight cars (the 300s) ? What color was the
          > roof painted, the
          > >trucks, etc ?
          > >
          > >Any info greatly appreciated.
          > >
          > >John
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
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        • roygbenedict@juno.com
          If you say so; I didn t have the pleasure of knowing Doug Traxler. But my recollection of B -105 is different, that the colorization was done by the platemaker
          Message 4 of 7 , May 22, 2007
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            If you say so; I didn't have the pleasure of knowing Doug Traxler. But my recollection of B
            -105 is different, that the colorization was done by the platemaker at Wm. L. Erickson &
            Co., CERA's printer, based on verbal description by George Krambles who had seen the cars
            in service toward the end of their career on the AE&FRE. The craftsman, whose name I don't
            recall right now, had been a postcard colorist some decades earlier. My role with B-105 was
            to prepare the maps and some additions to the text.

            ROY G. BENEDICT | Publishers' services
            PO Box 368, River Grove IL 60171 � R-Benedict-11@...
            Voice, message and fax: (773) 625-5263
            .
            .

            -- "Joseph Hazinski" <jrhtrolley@...> wrote:

            . . . The hand colored photo [of the double-truck AE&FRE lightweight car]
            in the first version of CERA Bulletin 105 was done by Doug
            Traxler, a Milwaukee bus driver and former Speedrail operator who has since
            passed away.

            Joe Hazinski


            >From: "roygbenedict@..." <roygbenedict@...>
            >Reply-To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
            >To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] AE&FRE Birney Cars
            >Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 18:15:12 GMT
            >
            >If the evidence is that they photographed dark on the usual camera film of
            >the time, it has
            >fooled later-day observers many times already. Hopkins Peffers says (vol.
            >2, page 14)
            >"Originally the cars were all orange. Later, cream trim was added" and he
            >was there, so he
            >should know.
            >
            >On page 33 he describes the high school colors used as trim on four of the
            >cars.
            >
            >You can see on the dust jacket how Gil Reid represented the car colors,
            >perhaps on Hop's
            >instructions.
            >
            >ROY G. BENEDICT | Publishers' services
            >PO Box 368, River Grove IL 60171 � R-Benedict-11@...
            >Voice, message and fax: (773) 625-5263
            >.
            >.
            >
            >Does anyone know the color scheme of the AE&FRE Birney cars ?
            >
            >Evidence seems to suggest they were originally delivered in a dark
            >Pullman green, which I beleive gave way failry quickly to a standard
            >traction yellow. Where these cars painted to match the double truck
            >lightweight cars (the 300s) ? What color was the roof painted, the
            >trucks, etc ?
            >
            >Any info greatly appreciated.
            >
            >John
          • Joseph Hazinski
            You most likely are correct as I am basing this on the fact that Doug has been credited for other colorations in other CERA bulletins. I do not have a copy of
            Message 5 of 7 , May 22, 2007
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              You most likely are correct as I am basing this on the fact that Doug has
              been credited for other colorations in other CERA bulletins. I do not have
              a copy of the first 105 printing so there is no way for me to check. I did
              see some of his handy work in his home and my recollections are that most of
              what I had saw were not published. The only one that sticks out in my mind
              was a stylized colorization of a TM 500 city car to the point of it not
              being a TM car! It looked like a 500 that was sold to West Towns or Des
              Moines! (For the record no TM 500's were sold to any other properties.) I
              think he said he did that one for fun of it.

              Joe Hazinski

              >From: "roygbenedict@..." <roygbenedict@...>
              >Reply-To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
              >To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] AE&FRE Birney Cars
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              >
              >If you say so; I didn't have the pleasure of knowing Doug Traxler. But my
              >recollection of B
              >-105 is different, that the colorization was done by the platemaker at Wm.
              >L. Erickson &
              >Co., CERA's printer, based on verbal description by George Krambles who had
              >seen the cars
              >in service toward the end of their career on the AE&FRE. The craftsman,
              >whose name I don't
              >recall right now, had been a postcard colorist some decades earlier. My
              >role with B-105 was
              >to prepare the maps and some additions to the text.
              >
              >ROY G. BENEDICT | Publishers' services
              >PO Box 368, River Grove IL 60171 � R-Benedict-11@...
              >Voice, message and fax: (773) 625-5263
              >.
              >.
              >
              >-- "Joseph Hazinski" <jrhtrolley@...> wrote:
              >
              >. . . The hand colored photo [of the double-truck AE&FRE lightweight car]
              >in the first version of CERA Bulletin 105 was done by Doug
              >Traxler, a Milwaukee bus driver and former Speedrail operator who has since
              >passed away.
              >
              >Joe Hazinski
              >
              >
              > >From: "roygbenedict@..." <roygbenedict@...>
              > >Reply-To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
              > >To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
              > >Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] AE&FRE Birney Cars
              > >Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 18:15:12 GMT
              > >
              > >If the evidence is that they photographed dark on the usual camera film
              >of
              > >the time, it has
              > >fooled later-day observers many times already. Hopkins Peffers says (vol.
              > >2, page 14)
              > >"Originally the cars were all orange. Later, cream trim was added" and he
              > >was there, so he
              > >should know.
              > >
              > >On page 33 he describes the high school colors used as trim on four of
              >the
              > >cars.
              > >
              > >You can see on the dust jacket how Gil Reid represented the car colors,
              > >perhaps on Hop's
              > >instructions.
              > >
              > >ROY G. BENEDICT | Publishers' services
              > >PO Box 368, River Grove IL 60171 � R-Benedict-11@...
              > >Voice, message and fax: (773) 625-5263
              > >.
              > >.
              > >
              > >Does anyone know the color scheme of the AE&FRE Birney cars ?
              > >
              > >Evidence seems to suggest they were originally delivered in a dark
              > >Pullman green, which I beleive gave way failry quickly to a standard
              > >traction yellow. Where these cars painted to match the double truck
              > >lightweight cars (the 300s) ? What color was the roof painted, the
              > >trucks, etc ?
              > >
              > >Any info greatly appreciated.
              > >
              > >John
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • thegreatthirdrail
              To all Thank you for your input on paint schemes of the AE&FRE Birneys. For those wondering my interest, I ve undertaken building a model of one of these cars.
              Message 6 of 7 , May 29, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                To all
                Thank you for your input on paint schemes of the AE&FRE Birneys.

                For those wondering my interest, I've undertaken building a model of
                one of these cars. This will not be just any model, the car is being
                built in 1:6 scale, or 2 inches = 1 foot. The 28 foot car is just
                under
                5 feet long, about 15 inches wide.

                Those of us in the group over 30 years of age can use this
                perspective, remember your old GI Joe (or for the ladies, your
                Barbie) that was 12 inches tall ? It's built to that size.

                I currently have one side mostly finished, and one end mocked up.
                That's as far as I got until the local hobby shop ran out of
                materials, this thing uses up a lot of material ! I'll post photos as
                it progresses.

                In the meantime, I was able to purchase a lot of 3 small AE&FRE
                snapshots of the early 1934 timeframe off of ebay a couple weeks back.
                They don't scan very well unfortunately, but I did what I could with
                them, they're in the photo section in the AE&FRE folder. One which is
                pretty interesting is the picture of lightweight car #301, you can't
                make it out too well in the scan, but you can clearly see in the
                original photo that the car is signed for "Circus"

                JC
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