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Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Digest Number 221

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  • Tom Kaufman
    I believe the freight service was run on an as needed basis, not on a regularly scheduled basis. As for the gates, if memory serves me correctly, the wooden
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 31, 2007
      I believe the freight service was run on an as needed basis, not on a regularly scheduled basis. As for the gates, if memory serves me correctly, the wooden gate arms were removed after the cessation on July 3rd of the passenger service. I say this as I remember the second CA&E video, (not the Sunday River one), that the additional excursions that ran before the freight service was suspended showed the trains passing the crossings and the trains were flagged across the crossings. It showed the black bases with no gate arms at the crossing in Glen Ellyn. I used to have the tape, but I have since lost it so I cannot check it. Tom Kaufman

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: "thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com" <thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com>
      To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:56:43 AM
      Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Digest Number 221


      There are 9 messages in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1a. Villa Park station sign
      From: glen brewer
      1b. Re: Villa Park station sign
      From: Mitchell Markovitz
      1c. Re: Villa Park station sign
      From: Tom Thomas
      1d. Re: Villa Park station sign
      From: Mitchell Markovitz

      2. Freight question
      From: Mitch Markovitz

      3a. BV_06
      From: Mitch Markovitz
      3b. Re: BV_06
      From: glen brewer
      3c. Re: BV_06
      From: Mitchell Markovitz
      3d. Re: BV_06
      From: Frank Hicks


      Messages
      ________________________________________________________________________

      1a. Villa Park station sign
      Posted by: "glen brewer" gbrewer@... gbrewer
      Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:02 am ((PST))

      The sign for the Villa Avenue station is going to be reproduced and
      reinstalled.

      But first a question from the man in charge, Bob Dollinger: "Is the
      background Black or Dark Brown which would match the color of the
      building?"

      Can anyone help?

      They are working from the following enlargement

      <IMG SRC="http://www.homestaydenver.com/cae/StationSign.jpg"; height="50"
      width="50">

      Messages in this topic (4)
      ________________________________________________________________________

      1b. Re: Villa Park station sign
      Posted by: "Mitchell Markovitz" art.mark@... mitchellmarkovitz
      Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:26 am ((PST))


      That's a question that was gone ver with concerning a new
      reproduction of the Dempster Street sign. It seems by looking at
      the tone value in a black and white photo that the dempster sign
      was dark brown, even though the remainder of the system signs
      were black.

      As for CA&E I wish I were more conversant with their standards.
      If the letters are gold leaf, chances are the bckground was
      brown. If you would email a photo to me I will give an expert
      opinion.

      Mitch


      ------ Original Message ------
      Received: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:02:33 AM EST
      From: "glen brewer" <gbrewer@...>
      To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Villa Park station sign




      The sign for the Villa Avenue station is going to be reproduced
      and reinstalled.

      But first a question from the man in charge, Bob Dollinger: "Is
      the background Black or Dark Brown which would match the color of
      the building?"

      Can anyone help?

      They are working from the following enlargement

      <IMG SRC="http://www.homestaydenver.com/cae/StationSign.jpg";
      height="50" width="50">


      Mitch Markovitz, www.mitchmarkovitz.com 574.772.7939

      Messages in this topic (4)
      ________________________________________________________________________

      1c. Re: Villa Park station sign
      Posted by: "Tom Thomas" tthomas436@... tthomas436
      Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:02 am ((PST))

      I wonder if someone out there could take a look at the Sunday River video of the CA&E (which is in color), and see if the Villa Ave. sign shows up in any of the film footage. If so, maybe the colors would be visible or other station signs might be visible (and would have had similar colors).

      Just a thought - if I had my copy handy I'd watch it and tell you, but I don't.

      Tom Thomas


      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
      To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 9:14:45 AM
      Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Villa Park station sign

      That's a question that was gone ver with concerning a new reproduction of the Dempster Street sign. It seems by looking at the tone value in a black and white photo that the dempster sign was dark brown, even though the remainder of the system signs were black.
      As for CA&E I wish I were more conversant with their standards. If the letters are gold leaf, chances are the bckground was brown. If you would email a photo to me I will give an expert opinion.
      Mitch


      ------ Original Message ------
      Received: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:02:33 AM EST
      From: "glen brewer" <gbrewer@yahoo. com>
      To: thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups. com
      Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Villa Park station sign



      The sign for the Villa Avenue station is going to be reproduced and reinstalled.

      But first a question from the man in charge, Bob Dollinger: "Is the background Black or Dark Brown which would match the color of the building?"

      Can anyone help?

      They are working from the following enlargement

      <IMG SRC="http:// www.homestaydenv er.com/cae/ StationSign. jpg" height="50" width="50">


      Mitch Markovitz, www.mitchmarkovitz. com 574.772.7939



      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail.yahoo.com
      Messages in this topic (4)
      ________________________________________________________________________

      1d. Re: Villa Park station sign
      Posted by: "Mitchell Markovitz" art.mark@... mitchellmarkovitz
      Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:16 am ((PST))


      Tom,

      That's a good idea. I just wrote to Glen and said the sign migght
      very well be brown, but it seems to me I saw a similar CA&E sign
      and it was black. And if it were porcelain it would be navy blue.

      Mitch


      ------ Original Message ------
      Received: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:03:06 AM EST
      From: Tom Thomas <tthomas436@...>
      To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Villa Park station sign




      I wonder if someone out there could take a look at the Sunday
      River video of the CA&E (which is in color), and see if the Villa
      Ave. sign shows up in any of the film footage. If so, maybe the
      colors would be visible or other station signs might be visible
      (and would have had similar colors). Just a thought - if I
      had my copy handy I'd watch it and tell you, but I don't. Tom
      Thomas

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
      To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 9:14:45 AM
      Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Villa Park station sign



      That's a question that was gone ver with concerning a new
      reproduction of the Dempster Street sign. It seems by looking at
      the tone value in a black and white photo that the dempster sign
      was dark brown, even though the remainder of the system signs
      were black.

      As for CA&E I wish I were more conversant with their standards.
      If the letters are gold leaf, chances are the bckground was
      brown. If you would email a photo to me I will give an expert
      opinion.

      Mitch


      ------ Original Message ------
      Received: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:02:33 AM EST
      From: "glen brewer" <gbrewer@yahoo. com>
      To: thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups. com
      Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Villa Park station sign




      The sign for the Villa Avenue station is going to be reproduced
      and reinstalled.

      But first a question from the man in charge, Bob Dollinger: "Is
      the background Black or Dark Brown which would match the color of
      the building?"

      Can anyone help?

      They are working from the following enlargement

      <IMG SRC="http:// www.homestaydenv er.com/cae/ StationSign. jpg"
      height="50" width="50">


      Mitch Markovitz, www.mitchmarkovitz. com 574.772.7939


      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail.yahoo.com



      Mitch Markovitz, www.mitchmarkovitz.com 574.772.7939

      Messages in this topic (4)
      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      2. Freight question
      Posted by: "Mitch Markovitz" art.mark@... mitchellmarkovitz
      Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:18 am ((PST))

      After the cesation of passenger trains how many freight trains did the
      CA&E operate on an average weekday? Where there were attended gates on
      the east end who operated them? It seems unlikely that the rr would
      have a guy in each tower just to put the gates down and up twice.
      Mitch



      Messages in this topic (1)
      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      3a. BV_06
      Posted by: "Mitch Markovitz" art.mark@... mitchellmarkovitz
      Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:28 am ((PST))

      Go to Bill Volkmer's photos in the album. Click on number 6 which is a
      pic of an eastbound leaving Villa Park. Save the image to your computer
      and enlarge it. Voila.. The sign is gloss black enamel with white
      letters.
      Mitch



      Messages in this topic (4)
      ________________________________________________________________________

      3b. Re: BV_06
      Posted by: "glen brewer" gbrewer@... gbrewer
      Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:28 am ((PST))

      Mitch,

      I can tell there is a sign there, but all that information? Maybe
      your monitor has a lot more pixels on it than mine does. How can you
      tell?

      I am sure I would have remembered if the sign had been blue. It was
      definitely black or brown.

      As to the late freight trains, I doubt there were even one a day. I
      think the train crew just flagged through.

      Glen




      Messages in this topic (4)
      ________________________________________________________________________

      3c. Re: BV_06
      Posted by: "Mitchell Markovitz" art.mark@... mitchellmarkovitz
      Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:38 am ((PST))


      I was able to enlarge the picture quite a bit. Just by the color
      of the reflections I can tell. Another way to think of it would
      be if the railroad's own sign department made them, and I'm sure
      they did, they would just have the black paint in stock, and not
      a different one for each architectural trim on various stations.
      That's what the South Shore did. Just one color. All the othe
      CA&E station signs that I've seen have been black and white.

      Mitch


      ------ Original Message ------
      Received: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 12:28:26 PM EST
      From: "glen brewer" <gbrewer@...>
      To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: BV_06




      Mitch,

      I can tell there is a sign there, but all that information? Maybe
      your monitor has a lot more pixels on it than mine does. How can
      you
      tell?

      I am sure I would have remembered if the sign had been blue. It
      was
      definitely black or brown.

      As to the late freight trains, I doubt there were even one a day.
      I
      think the train crew just flagged through.

      Glen




      Mitch Markovitz, www.mitchmarkovitz.com 574.772.7939

      Messages in this topic (4)
      ________________________________________________________________________

      3d. Re: BV_06
      Posted by: "Frank Hicks" fullparallel@... hicksco2
      Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:30 pm ((PST))

      "Another way to think of it would be if the railroad's own sign
      department made them, and I'm sure they did, they would just have the
      black paint in stock, and not a different one for each architectural
      trim on various stations. That's what the South Shore did. Just one
      color. All the othe CA&E station signs that I've seen have been black
      and white."

      Well, it makes sense in theory, but where the CA&E is concerned this
      particular type of inference shouldn't be relied on. In some cases
      the CA&E tended to avoid consistency like the plague, notably in car
      interior colors. Between the late 1930's and the mid-1940's they
      painted car interiors in probably 10 or more different color schemes,
      some with minor variations in hue and some with totally different color
      palettes. Just because it makes sense to make color schemes
      consistent doesn't mean the CA&E did it. :-)

      Frank Hicks



      Messages in this topic (4)
      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________



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    • mr77100
      According to the Sunday River tape, freight service continued twice daily until 1959. Which second video are you referring to? ... a regularly scheduled
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 1, 2007
        According to the Sunday River tape, freight service continued twice
        daily until 1959. Which "second video" are you referring to?

        --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kaufman <elmer53@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I believe the freight service was run on an as needed basis, not on
        a regularly scheduled basis. As for the gates, if memory serves me
        correctly, the wooden gate arms were removed after the cessation on
        July 3rd of the passenger service. I say this as I remember the
        second CA&E video, (not the Sunday River one), that the additional
        excursions that ran before the freight service was suspended showed
        the trains passing the crossings and the trains were flagged across
        the crossings. It showed the black bases with no gate arms at the
        crossing in Glen Ellyn. I used to have the tape, but I have since
        lost it so I cannot check
        it.
        Tom Kaufman
        >
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: "thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com"
        <thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com>
        > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:56:43 AM
        > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Digest Number 221
        >
        >
        > There are 9 messages in this issue.
        >
        > Topics in this digest:
        >
        > 1a. Villa Park station sign
        > From: glen brewer
        > 1b. Re: Villa Park station sign
        > From: Mitchell Markovitz
        > 1c. Re: Villa Park station sign
        > From: Tom Thomas
        > 1d. Re: Villa Park station sign
        > From: Mitchell Markovitz
        >
        > 2. Freight question
        > From: Mitch Markovitz
        >
        > 3a. BV_06
        > From: Mitch Markovitz
        > 3b. Re: BV_06
        > From: glen brewer
        > 3c. Re: BV_06
        > From: Mitchell Markovitz
        > 3d. Re: BV_06
        > From: Frank Hicks
        >
        >
        > Messages
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        > 1a. Villa Park station sign
        > Posted by: "glen brewer" gbrewer@... gbrewer
        > Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:02 am ((PST))
        >
        > The sign for the Villa Avenue station is going to be reproduced and
        > reinstalled.
        >
        > But first a question from the man in charge, Bob Dollinger: "Is the
        > background Black or Dark Brown which would match the color of the
        > building?"
        >
        > Can anyone help?
        >
        > They are working from the following enlargement
        >
        > <IMG SRC="http://www.homestaydenver.com/cae/StationSign.jpg";
        height="50"
        > width="50">
        >
        > Messages in this topic (4)
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        > 1b. Re: Villa Park station sign
        > Posted by: "Mitchell Markovitz" art.mark@... mitchellmarkovitz
        > Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:26 am ((PST))
        >
        >
        > That's a question that was gone ver with concerning a new
        > reproduction of the Dempster Street sign. It seems by looking at
        > the tone value in a black and white photo that the dempster sign
        > was dark brown, even though the remainder of the system signs
        > were black.
        >
        > As for CA&E I wish I were more conversant with their standards.
        > If the letters are gold leaf, chances are the bckground was
        > brown. If you would email a photo to me I will give an expert
        > opinion.
        >
        > Mitch
        >
        >
        > ------ Original Message ------
        > Received: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:02:33 AM EST
        > From: "glen brewer" <gbrewer@...>
        > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Villa Park station sign
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > The sign for the Villa Avenue station is going to be reproduced
        > and reinstalled.
        >
        > But first a question from the man in charge, Bob Dollinger: "Is
        > the background Black or Dark Brown which would match the color of
        > the building?"
        >
        > Can anyone help?
        >
        > They are working from the following enlargement
        >
        > <IMG SRC="http://www.homestaydenver.com/cae/StationSign.jpg";
        > height="50" width="50">
        >
        >
        > Mitch Markovitz, www.mitchmarkovitz.com 574.772.7939
        >
        > Messages in this topic (4)
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        > 1c. Re: Villa Park station sign
        > Posted by: "Tom Thomas" tthomas436@... tthomas436
        > Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:02 am ((PST))
        >
        > I wonder if someone out there could take a look at the Sunday River
        video of the CA&E (which is in color), and see if the Villa Ave. sign
        shows up in any of the film footage. If so, maybe the colors would
        be visible or other station signs might be visible (and would have
        had similar colors).
        >
        > Just a thought - if I had my copy handy I'd watch it and tell you,
        but I don't.
        >
        > Tom Thomas
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
        > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 9:14:45 AM
        > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Villa Park station sign
        >
        > That's a question that was gone ver with concerning a new
        reproduction of the Dempster Street sign. It seems by looking at the
        tone value in a black and white photo that the dempster sign was dark
        brown, even though the remainder of the system signs were black.
        > As for CA&E I wish I were more conversant with their standards. If
        the letters are gold leaf, chances are the bckground was brown. If
        you would email a photo to me I will give an expert opinion.
        > Mitch
        >
        >
        > ------ Original Message ------
        > Received: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:02:33 AM EST
        > From: "glen brewer" <gbrewer@yahoo. com>
        > To: thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups. com
        > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Villa Park station sign
        >
        >
        >
        > The sign for the Villa Avenue station is going to be reproduced and
        reinstalled.
        >
        > But first a question from the man in charge, Bob Dollinger: "Is the
        background Black or Dark Brown which would match the color of the
        building?"
        >
        > Can anyone help?
        >
        > They are working from the following enlargement
        >
        > <IMG SRC="http:// www.homestaydenv er.com/cae/ StationSign. jpg"
        height="50" width="50">
        >
        >
        > Mitch Markovitz, www.mitchmarkovitz. com 574.772.7939
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        > Messages in this topic (4)
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        > 1d. Re: Villa Park station sign
        > Posted by: "Mitchell Markovitz" art.mark@... mitchellmarkovitz
        > Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:16 am ((PST))
        >
        >
        > Tom,
        >
        > That's a good idea. I just wrote to Glen and said the sign migght
        > very well be brown, but it seems to me I saw a similar CA&E sign
        > and it was black. And if it were porcelain it would be navy blue.
        >
        > Mitch
        >
        >
        > ------ Original Message ------
        > Received: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:03:06 AM EST
        > From: Tom Thomas <tthomas436@...>
        > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Villa Park station sign
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > I wonder if someone out there could take a look at the Sunday
        > River video of the CA&E (which is in color), and see if the Villa
        > Ave. sign shows up in any of the film footage. If so, maybe the
        > colors would be visible or other station signs might be visible
        > (and would have had similar colors). Just a thought - if I
        > had my copy handy I'd watch it and tell you, but I don't. Tom
        > Thomas
        >
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
        > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 9:14:45 AM
        > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Villa Park station sign
        >
        >
        >
        > That's a question that was gone ver with concerning a new
        > reproduction of the Dempster Street sign. It seems by looking at
        > the tone value in a black and white photo that the dempster sign
        > was dark brown, even though the remainder of the system signs
        > were black.
        >
        > As for CA&E I wish I were more conversant with their standards.
        > If the letters are gold leaf, chances are the bckground was
        > brown. If you would email a photo to me I will give an expert
        > opinion.
        >
        > Mitch
        >
        >
        > ------ Original Message ------
        > Received: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:02:33 AM EST
        > From: "glen brewer" <gbrewer@yahoo. com>
        > To: thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups. com
        > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Villa Park station sign
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > The sign for the Villa Avenue station is going to be reproduced
        > and reinstalled.
        >
        > But first a question from the man in charge, Bob Dollinger: "Is
        > the background Black or Dark Brown which would match the color of
        > the building?"
        >
        > Can anyone help?
        >
        > They are working from the following enlargement
        >
        > <IMG SRC="http:// www.homestaydenv er.com/cae/ StationSign. jpg"
        > height="50" width="50">
        >
        >
        > Mitch Markovitz, www.mitchmarkovitz. com 574.772.7939
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Mitch Markovitz, www.mitchmarkovitz.com 574.772.7939
        >
        > Messages in this topic (4)
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        > 2. Freight question
        > Posted by: "Mitch Markovitz" art.mark@... mitchellmarkovitz
        > Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:18 am ((PST))
        >
        > After the cesation of passenger trains how many freight trains did
        the
        > CA&E operate on an average weekday? Where there were attended gates
        on
        > the east end who operated them? It seems unlikely that the rr would
        > have a guy in each tower just to put the gates down and up twice.
        > Mitch
        >
        >
        >
        > Messages in this topic (1)
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        > 3a. BV_06
        > Posted by: "Mitch Markovitz" art.mark@... mitchellmarkovitz
        > Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:28 am ((PST))
        >
        > Go to Bill Volkmer's photos in the album. Click on number 6 which
        is a
        > pic of an eastbound leaving Villa Park. Save the image to your
        computer
        > and enlarge it. Voila.. The sign is gloss black enamel with white
        > letters.
        > Mitch
        >
        >
        >
        > Messages in this topic (4)
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        > 3b. Re: BV_06
        > Posted by: "glen brewer" gbrewer@... gbrewer
        > Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:28 am ((PST))
        >
        > Mitch,
        >
        > I can tell there is a sign there, but all that information? Maybe
        > your monitor has a lot more pixels on it than mine does. How can
        you
        > tell?
        >
        > I am sure I would have remembered if the sign had been blue. It was
        > definitely black or brown.
        >
        > As to the late freight trains, I doubt there were even one a day. I
        > think the train crew just flagged through.
        >
        > Glen
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Messages in this topic (4)
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        > 3c. Re: BV_06
        > Posted by: "Mitchell Markovitz" art.mark@... mitchellmarkovitz
        > Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:38 am ((PST))
        >
        >
        > I was able to enlarge the picture quite a bit. Just by the color
        > of the reflections I can tell. Another way to think of it would
        > be if the railroad's own sign department made them, and I'm sure
        > they did, they would just have the black paint in stock, and not
        > a different one for each architectural trim on various stations.
        > That's what the South Shore did. Just one color. All the othe
        > CA&E station signs that I've seen have been black and white.
        >
        > Mitch
        >
        >
        > ------ Original Message ------
        > Received: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 12:28:26 PM EST
        > From: "glen brewer" <gbrewer@...>
        > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: BV_06
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Mitch,
        >
        > I can tell there is a sign there, but all that information? Maybe
        > your monitor has a lot more pixels on it than mine does. How can
        > you
        > tell?
        >
        > I am sure I would have remembered if the sign had been blue. It
        > was
        > definitely black or brown.
        >
        > As to the late freight trains, I doubt there were even one a day.
        > I
        > think the train crew just flagged through.
        >
        > Glen
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Mitch Markovitz, www.mitchmarkovitz.com 574.772.7939
        >
        > Messages in this topic (4)
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        > 3d. Re: BV_06
        > Posted by: "Frank Hicks" fullparallel@... hicksco2
        > Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:30 pm ((PST))
        >
        > "Another way to think of it would be if the railroad's own sign
        > department made them, and I'm sure they did, they would just have
        the
        > black paint in stock, and not a different one for each architectural
        > trim on various stations. That's what the South Shore did. Just one
        > color. All the othe CA&E station signs that I've seen have been
        black
        > and white."
        >
        > Well, it makes sense in theory, but where the CA&E is concerned this
        > particular type of inference shouldn't be relied on. In some cases
        > the CA&E tended to avoid consistency like the plague, notably in car
        > interior colors. Between the late 1930's and the mid-1940's they
        > painted car interiors in probably 10 or more different color
        schemes,
        > some with minor variations in hue and some with totally different
        color
        > palettes. Just because it makes sense to make color schemes
        > consistent doesn't mean the CA&E did it. :-)
        >
        > Frank Hicks
        >
        >
        >
        > Messages in this topic (4)
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        >
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------
        ----
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------
        ----
        >
        >
        >
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        ______________
        > Bored stiff? Loosen up...
        > Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
        > http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
        >
      • Mitchell Markovitz
        I tend to believe the twice daily scenario. If the service was As needed the crew would have to work off the extra board with no regular assignment. This
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 2, 2007

          I tend to believe the twice daily scenario. If the service was "As needed" the crew would have to work off the extra board with no regular assignment. This would meen the crew members would have to be employed elsewhere to have steady income. This would require they take a day off from their regular job to work on the railroad, which I don't believe. When I worked at All Nation Hobby Shop in Chicago, Frank Krichek would come in the shop from time to time. He was one of the last remaining CA&E trainmen to work the freight jobs. I seem to recall his saying he had a daily assignment. I know that at least once a day a freight job must have come as far as Bellwood to do the IHB and the Mt Carmel work. My original question was based on curiosity about grade crossing protection. I culdn't imagine crossing gate towermen assigned daily o operate the gates just 2 or 4 times daily. In one picture of the last passenger extra it seems that the conductor operated the crossing release button on a pole at the crossing as the box is shown open.

          Mitch


          ------ Original Message ------
          Received: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 12:04:53 AM EST
          From: "mr77100" <mr7710000@...>
          To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: Digest Number 221


          According to the Sunday River tape, freight service continued twice
          daily until 1959. Which "second video" are you referring to?

          --- In thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups. com, Tom Kaufman <elmer53@... >
          wrote:

          >
          > I believe the freight service was run on an as needed basis, not on
          a regularly scheduled basis. As for the gates, if memory serves me
          correctly, the wooden gate arms were removed after the cessation on
          July 3rd of the passenger service. I say this as I remember the
          second CA&E video, (not the Sunday River one), that the additional
          excursions that ran before the freight service was suspended showed
          the trains passing the crossings and the trains were flagged across
          the crossings. It showed the black bases with no gate arms at the
          crossing in Glen Ellyn. I used to have the tape, but I have since
          lost it so I cannot check
          it.
          Tom Kaufman
          >
          > ----- Original Message ----
          > From: "thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups. com"
          <thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups. com>
          > To: thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups. com
          > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:56:43 AM
          > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Digest Number 221
          >
          >
          > There are 9 messages in this issue.
          >
          > Topics in this digest:
          >
          > 1a. Villa Park station sign
          > From: glen brewer
          > 1b. Re: Villa Park station sign
          > From: Mitchell Markovitz
          > 1c. Re: Villa Park station sign
          > From: Tom Thomas
          > 1d. Re: Villa Park station sign
          > From: Mitchell Markovitz
          >
          > 2. Freight question
          > From: Mitch Markovitz
          >
          > 3a. BV_06
          > From: Mitch Markovitz
          > 3b. Re: BV_06
          > From: glen brewer
          > 3c. Re: BV_06
          > From: Mitchell Markovitz
          > 3d. Re: BV_06
          > From: Frank Hicks
          >
          >
          > Messages
          >
          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          __
          >
          > 1a. Villa Park station sign
          > Posted by: "glen brewer" gbrewer@... gbrewer
          > Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:02 am ((PST))
          >
          > The sign for the Villa Avenue station is going to be reproduced and
          > reinstalled.
          >
          > But first a question from the man in charge, Bob Dollinger: "Is the
          > background Black or Dark Brown which would match the color of the
          > building?"
          >
          > Can anyone help?
          >
          > They are working from the following enlargement
          >
          > <IMG SRC="http://www.homestay denver.com/ cae/StationSign. jpg";
          height="50"
          > width="50">
          >
          > Messages in this topic (4)
          >
          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          __
          >
          > 1b. Re: Villa Park station sign
          > Posted by: "Mitchell Markovitz" art.mark@... mitchellmarkovitz
          > Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:26 am ((PST))
          >
          >
          > That's a question that was gone ver with concerning a new
          > reproduction of the Dempster Street sign. It seems by looking at
          > the tone value in a black and white photo that the dempster sign
          > was dark brown, even though the remainder of the system signs
          > were black.
          >
          > As for CA&E I wish I were more conversant with their standards.
          > If the letters are gold leaf, chances are the bckground was
          > brown. If you would email a photo to me I will give an expert
          > opinion.
          >
          > Mitch
          >
          >
          > ------ Original Message ------
          > Received: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:02:33 AM EST
          > From: "glen brewer" <gbrewer@... >
          > To: thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups. com
          > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Villa Park station sign
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > The sign for the Villa Avenue station is going to be reproduced
          > and reinstalled.
          >
          > But first a question from the man in charge, Bob Dollinger: "Is
          > the background Black or Dark Brown which would match the color of
          > the building?"
          >
          > Can anyone help?
          >
          > They are working from the following enlargement
          >
          > <IMG SRC="http://www.homestay denver.com/ cae/StationSign. jpg";
          > height="50" width="50">
          >
          >
          > Mitch Markovitz, www.mitchmarkovitz. com 574.772.7939
          >
          > Messages in this topic (4)
          >
          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          __
          >
          > 1c. Re: Villa Park station sign
          > Posted by: "Tom Thomas" tthomas436@. .. tthomas436
          > Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:02 am ((PST))
          >
          > I wonder if someone out there could take a look at the Sunday River
          video of the CA&E (which is in color), and see if the Villa Ave. sign
          shows up in any of the film footage. If so, maybe the colors would
          be visible or other station signs might be visible (and would have
          had similar colors).
          >
          > Just a thought - if I had my copy handy I'd watch it and tell you,
          but I don't.
          >
          > Tom Thomas
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message ----
          > From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@.. .>
          > To: thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups. com
          > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 9:14:45 AM
          > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Villa Park station sign
          >
          > That's a question that was gone ver with concerning a new
          reproduction of the Dempster Street sign. It seems by looking at the
          tone value in a black and white photo that the dempster sign was dark
          brown, even though the remainder of the system signs were black.
          > As for CA&E I wish I were more conversant with their standards. If
          the letters are gold leaf, chances are the bckground was brown. If
          you would email a photo to me I will give an expert opinion.
          > Mitch
          >
          >
          > ------ Original Message ------
          > Received: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:02:33 AM EST
          > From: "glen brewer" <gbrewer@yahoo. com>
          > To: thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups. com
          > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Villa Park station sign
          >
          >
          >
          > The sign for the Villa Avenue station is going to be reproduced and
          reinstalled.
          >
          > But first a question from the man in charge, Bob Dollinger: "Is the
          background Black or Dark Brown which would match the color of the
          building?"
          >
          > Can anyone help?
          >
          > They are working from the following enlargement
          >
          > <IMG SRC="http:// www.homestaydenv er.com/cae/ StationSign. jpg"
          height="50" width="50">
          >
          >
          > Mitch Markovitz, www.mitchmarkovitz. com 574.772.7939
          >
          >
          >
          > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail. yahoo.com
          > Messages in this topic (4)
          >
          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          __
          >
          > 1d. Re: Villa Park station sign
          > Posted by: "Mitchell Markovitz" art.mark@... mitchellmarkovitz
          > Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:16 am ((PST))
          >
          >
          > Tom,
          >
          > That's a good idea. I just wrote to Glen and said the sign migght
          > very well be brown, but it seems to me I saw a similar CA&E sign
          > and it was black. And if it were porcelain it would be navy blue.
          >
          > Mitch
          >
          >
          > ------ Original Message ------
          > Received: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:03:06 AM EST
          > From: Tom Thomas <tthomas436@ ...>
          > To: thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups. com
          > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Villa Park station sign
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I wonder if someone out there could take a look at the Sunday
          > River video of the CA&E (which is in color), and see if the Villa
          > Ave. sign shows up in any of the film footage. If so, maybe the
          > colors would be visible or other station signs might be visible
          > (and would have had similar colors). Just a thought - if I
          > had my copy handy I'd watch it and tell you, but I don't. Tom
          > Thomas
          >
          > ----- Original Message ----
          > From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@.. .>
          > To: thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups. com
          > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 9:14:45 AM
          > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Villa Park station sign
          >
          >
          >
          > That's a question that was gone ver with concerning a new
          > reproduction of the Dempster Street sign. It seems by looking at
          > the tone value in a black and white photo that the dempster sign
          > was dark brown, even though the remainder of the system signs
          > were black.
          >
          > As for CA&E I wish I were more conversant with their standards.
          > If the letters are gold leaf, chances are the bckground was
          > brown. If you would email a photo to me I will give an expert
          > opinion.
          >
          > Mitch
          >
          >
          > ------ Original Message ------
          > Received: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:02:33 AM EST
          > From: "glen brewer" <gbrewer@yahoo. com>
          > To: thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups. com
          > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Villa Park station sign
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > The sign for the Villa Avenue station is going to be reproduced
          > and reinstalled.
          >
          > But first a question from the man in charge, Bob Dollinger: "Is
          > the background Black or Dark Brown which would match the color of
          > the building?"
          >
          > Can anyone help?
          >
          > They are working from the following enlargement
          >
          > <IMG SRC="http:// www.homestaydenv er.com/cae/ StationSign. jpg"
          > height="50" width="50">
          >
          >
          > Mitch Markovitz, www.mitchmarkovitz. com 574.772.7939
          >
          >
          > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail. yahoo.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Mitch Markovitz, www.mitchmarkovitz. com 574.772.7939
          >
          > Messages in this topic (4)
          >
          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          __
          >
          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          __
          >
          > 2. Freight question
          > Posted by: "Mitch Markovitz" art.mark@... mitchellmarkovitz
          > Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:18 am ((PST))
          >
          > After the cesation of passenger trains how many freight trains did
          the
          > CA&E operate on an average weekday? Where there were attended gates
          on
          > the east end who operated them? It seems unlikely that the rr would
          > have a guy in each tower just to put the gates down and up twice.
          > Mitch
          >
          >
          >
          > Messages in this topic (1)
          >
          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          __
          >
          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          __
          >
          > 3a. BV_06
          > Posted by: "Mitch Markovitz" art.mark@... mitchellmarkovitz
          > Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:28 am ((PST))
          >
          > Go to Bill Volkmer's photos in the album. Click on number 6 which
          is a
          > pic of an eastbound leaving Villa Park. Save the image to your
          computer
          > and enlarge it. Voila.. The sign is gloss black enamel with white
          > letters.
          > Mitch
          >
          >
          >
          > Messages in this topic (4)
          >
          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          __
          >
          > 3b. Re: BV_06
          > Posted by: "glen brewer" gbrewer@... gbrewer
          > Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:28 am ((PST))
          >
          > Mitch,
          >
          > I can tell there is a sign there, but all that information? Maybe
          > your monitor has a lot more pixels on it than mine does. How can
          you
          > tell?
          >
          > I am sure I would have remembered if the sign had been blue. It was
          > definitely black or brown.
          >
          > As to the late freight trains, I doubt there were even one a day. I
          > think the train crew just flagged through.
          >
          > Glen
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Messages in this topic (4)
          >
          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          __
          >
          > 3c. Re: BV_06
          > Posted by: "Mitchell Markovitz" art.mark@... mitchellmarkovitz
          > Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:38 am ((PST))
          >
          >
          > I was able to enlarge the picture quite a bit. Just by the color
          > of the reflections I can tell. Another way to think of it would
          > be if the railroad's own sign department made them, and I'm sure
          > they did, they would just have the black paint in stock, and not
          > a different one for each architectural trim on various stations.
          > That's what the South Shore did. Just one color. All the othe
          > CA&E station signs that I've seen have been black and white.
          >
          > Mitch
          >
          >
          > ------ Original Message ------
          > Received: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 12:28:26 PM EST
          > From: "glen brewer" <gbrewer@... >
          > To: thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups. com
          > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: BV_06
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Mitch,
          >
          > I can tell there is a sign there, but all that information? Maybe
          > your monitor has a lot more pixels on it than mine does. How can
          > you
          > tell?
          >
          > I am sure I would have remembered if the sign had been blue. It
          > was
          > definitely black or brown.
          >
          > As to the late freight trains, I doubt there were even one a day.
          > I
          > think the train crew just flagged through.
          >
          > Glen
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Mitch Markovitz, www.mitchmarkovitz. com 574.772.7939
          >
          > Messages in this topic (4)
          >
          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          __
          >
          > 3d. Re: BV_06
          > Posted by: "Frank Hicks" fullparallel@ ... hicksco2
          > Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:30 pm ((PST))
          >
          > "Another way to think of it would be if the railroad's own sign
          > department made them, and I'm sure they did, they would just have
          the
          > black paint in stock, and not a different one for each architectural
          > trim on various stations. That's what the South Shore did. Just one
          > color. All the othe CA&E station signs that I've seen have been
          black
          > and white."
          >
          > Well, it makes sense in theory, but where the CA&E is concerned this
          > particular type of inference shouldn't be relied on. In some cases
          > the CA&E tended to avoid consistency like the plague, notably in car
          > interior colors. Between the late 1930's and the mid-1940's they
          > painted car interiors in probably 10 or more different color
          schemes,
          > some with minor variations in hue and some with totally different
          color
          > palettes. Just because it makes sense to make color schemes
          > consistent doesn't mean the CA&E did it. :-)
          >
          > Frank Hicks
          >
          >
          >
          > Messages in this topic (4)
          >
          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          __
          >
          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          __
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
          ----
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
          ----
          >
          >
          >
          >
          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          ____________ __
          > Bored stiff? Loosen up...
          > Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
          > http://games. yahoo.com/ games/front
          >



          Mitch Markovitz, www.mitchmarkovitz.com 574.772.7939
        • Thomas Kaufman
          The tape I was referring to was a semi professional production in VHS that was a compilation of home movies I believe and the quality was minimal in some
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 3, 2007
            The tape I was referring to was a semi professional production in VHS
            that was a compilation of home movies I believe and the quality was
            minimal in some scenes. The tape covered some of the last excursions in
            detail and some of the crossing gates had already been removed. This
            tape also covered the scrapping. If I find out the name of the tape I
            will post it. Tom kaufman
          • Charles Owen
            ... VHS . . . ... I think that the VHS tape to which Tom referred is entitled The Roarin Elgin that was sold by Reminisce Rails of San Dimas, California. It
            Message 5 of 5 , Feb 3, 2007
              --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Kaufman"
              <elmer53@...> wrote:
              >
              > The tape I was referring to was a semi professional production in
              VHS . . .
              >
              >
              I think that the VHS tape to which Tom referred is entitled "The
              Roarin Elgin" that was sold by Reminisce Rails of San Dimas, California.
              It is indeed a semi-professionally production, but the scrapping scenes
              and shipping of cars to various railroad museums are quite interesting.

              Chuck Owen
              Bogota, Colombia
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