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CTA expertise needed!

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  • interurbans
    This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the detours for the building of the Congress Expressway. Alan From: Russ Davis Sent:
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 4, 2013

    This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the detours for the building of the Congress Expressway.  

     

    Alan

     

    From: Russ Davis
    Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 7:08 PM
    Subject: CTA expertise needed!

     

    Noted, and worthy traction and transit luminaries, need some help

     

    Am having the great good fun of scanning slides from the collection of the late Vic Uzoff. And, it's got some great unpublished material. More about some of the rarities later

     

    But for now, from the more commonplace CTA, two attached

     

    Is the at-grade El crossing the only one? And, what line is it, and the name of the street being crossed?

     

    As I recall the mythology, the trains either have to be long enough so there's 3rd rail contact at one end of the train, or if it's a short train they run like hell and coast through

     

    The other Q:, the name of the class of the 2-car green set. I can always look it up, but I'm feeling lazy

     

    Thanx

     

    Russ

     

  • borowmaq@sbcglobal.net
    Hi: The class of cars in the first photo is the 4000s, of course, and the subgroup would be the plushies (4251-4455). The location is Lake/Wells, on the east
    Message 2 of 22 , Jul 5, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi:

      The class of cars in the first photo is the 4000s, of course, and the subgroup would be the plushies (4251-4455). The location is Lake/Wells, on the east side of the junction known as Tower 18 -- at the time, reputedly the busiest rail junction in the world. It's in front of the 201 N. Wells St. building, which has been transformed from offices to condos and still stands today. The photo was snapped from the old Randolph/Wells platform, which was a passenger stop at the time but today just houses switching equipment for the rebuilt Tower 18.
      I cannot pinpoint the other photo beyond saying that it is one of the temporary crossings on Van Buren Sreet installed while the Eisenhower Expressway was under construction. And no, it was not the only one on that stretch of track, which is reputedly why the CA&E refused to use the temporary track to come downtown.

      Bob Bresse-Rodenkirk

      --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, "interurbans" <afishel@...> wrote:
      >
      > This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the
      > detours for the building of the Congress Expressway.
      >
      >
      >
      > Alan
      >
      >
      >
      > From: Russ Davis
      > Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 7:08 PM
      > Subject: CTA expertise needed!
      >
      >
      >
      > Noted, and worthy traction and transit luminaries, need some help
      >
      >
      >
      > Am having the great good fun of scanning slides from the collection of the
      > late Vic Uzoff. And, it's got some great unpublished material. More about
      > some of the rarities later
      >
      >
      >
      > But for now, from the more commonplace CTA, two attached
      >
      >
      >
      > Is the at-grade El crossing the only one? And, what line is it, and the name
      > of the street being crossed?
      >
      >
      >
      > As I recall the mythology, the trains either have to be long enough so
      > there's 3rd rail contact at one end of the train, or if it's a short train
      > they run like hell and coast through
      >
      >
      >
      > The other Q:, the name of the class of the 2-car green set. I can always
      > look it up, but I'm feeling lazy
      >
      >
      >
      > Thanx
      >
      >
      >
      > Russ
      >
    • rayb749
      The view of the Garfield line is looking west and in the far distance on the left one can see the outline of the original Sears Tower just west of Homan
      Message 3 of 22 , Jul 5, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        The view of the Garfield line is looking west and in the far distance on the left one can see the outline of the original "Sears Tower" just west of Homan Avenue. This places the photo somewhere near the beginning of street running. Does anyone recognize any of the buildings on the right side?

        --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, "interurbans" <afishel@...> wrote:
        >
        > This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the
        > detours for the building of the Congress Expressway.
        >
        >
        >
        > Alan
        >
        >
        >
        > From: Russ Davis
        > Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 7:08 PM
        > Subject: CTA expertise needed!
        >
        >
        >
        > Noted, and worthy traction and transit luminaries, need some help
        >
        >
        >
        > Am having the great good fun of scanning slides from the collection of the
        > late Vic Uzoff. And, it's got some great unpublished material. More about
        > some of the rarities later
        >
        >
        >
        > But for now, from the more commonplace CTA, two attached
        >
        >
        >
        > Is the at-grade El crossing the only one? And, what line is it, and the name
        > of the street being crossed?
        >
        >
        >
        > As I recall the mythology, the trains either have to be long enough so
        > there's 3rd rail contact at one end of the train, or if it's a short train
        > they run like hell and coast through
        >
        >
        >
        > The other Q:, the name of the class of the 2-car green set. I can always
        > look it up, but I'm feeling lazy
        >
        >
        >
        > Thanx
        >
        >
        >
        > Russ
        >
      • David Sadowski
        If that s trolley wire visible in the photograph, I d say the cross street must be Western Avenue.
        Message 4 of 22 , Jul 5, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          If that's trolley wire visible in the photograph, I'd say the cross street must be Western Avenue.


          On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 1:18 AM, interurbans <afishel@...> wrote:
           
          [Attachment(s) from interurbans included below]

          This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the detours for the building of the Congress Expressway.  

           

          Alan

           

          From: Russ Davis
          Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 7:08 PM
          Subject: CTA expertise needed!

           

          Noted, and worthy traction and transit luminaries, need some help

           

          Am having the great good fun of scanning slides from the collection of the late Vic Uzoff. And, it's got some great unpublished material. More about some of the rarities later

           

          But for now, from the more commonplace CTA, two attached

           

          Is the at-grade El crossing the only one? And, what line is it, and the name of the street being crossed?

           

          As I recall the mythology, the trains either have to be long enough so there's 3rd rail contact at one end of the train, or if it's a short train they run like hell and coast through

           

          The other Q:, the name of the class of the 2-car green set. I can always look it up, but I'm feeling lazy

           

          Thanx

           

          Russ

           


        • David Church
          As a side note to the Van Buren street trackage for the displaced Garfield Park L: there were NO crossing gates. And as the train approached EACH crossing ,
          Message 5 of 22 , Jul 5, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            As a side note to the Van Buren street trackage for the displaced Garfield Park L:  there were NO crossing gates. And as the train approached EACH crossing , the signal much like a stop light turned red. The train had to make a complete stop then wait a complete traffic light to for green to proceed.  Then move from a dead stop across each crossing trying to not stall because of flow speed and Third rail gap. It was a tortuous ride that I still well remember. No wonder CA&E wanted no part of it. It was lose lose for them. This running added a huge amount of time to each trip. Their schedule would have been a shambles. 

            Sent from my iPhone

            On Jul 5, 2013, at 8:05 AM, "borowmaq@..." <borowmaq@...> wrote:

             

            Hi:

            The class of cars in the first photo is the 4000s, of course, and the subgroup would be the plushies (4251-4455). The location is Lake/Wells, on the east side of the junction known as Tower 18 -- at the time, reputedly the busiest rail junction in the world. It's in front of the 201 N. Wells St. building, which has been transformed from offices to condos and still stands today. The photo was snapped from the old Randolph/Wells platform, which was a passenger stop at the time but today just houses switching equipment for the rebuilt Tower 18.
            I cannot pinpoint the other photo beyond saying that it is one of the temporary crossings on Van Buren Sreet installed while the Eisenhower Expressway was under construction. And no, it was not the only one on that stretch of track, which is reputedly why the CA&E refused to use the temporary track to come downtown.

            Bob Bresse-Rodenkirk

            --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, "interurbans" <afishel@...> wrote:
            >
            > This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the
            > detours for the building of the Congress Expressway.
            >
            >
            >
            > Alan
            >
            >
            >
            > From: Russ Davis
            > Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 7:08 PM
            > Subject: CTA expertise needed!
            >
            >
            >
            > Noted, and worthy traction and transit luminaries, need some help
            >
            >
            >
            > Am having the great good fun of scanning slides from the collection of the
            > late Vic Uzoff. And, it's got some great unpublished material. More about
            > some of the rarities later
            >
            >
            >
            > But for now, from the more commonplace CTA, two attached
            >
            >
            >
            > Is the at-grade El crossing the only one? And, what line is it, and the name
            > of the street being crossed?
            >
            >
            >
            > As I recall the mythology, the trains either have to be long enough so
            > there's 3rd rail contact at one end of the train, or if it's a short train
            > they run like hell and coast through
            >
            >
            >
            > The other Q:, the name of the class of the 2-car green set. I can always
            > look it up, but I'm feeling lazy
            >
            >
            >
            > Thanx
            >
            >
            >
            > Russ
            >

          • Raymond Bellock
            what the earliest year that the public housing high rises were built/lived in at the northwest corner of the E way and Western Avenue. I don t know how far
            Message 6 of 22 , Jul 5, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              what the earliest year that the public housing high rises were built/lived in at the northwest corner of the E'way and Western Avenue. I don't know how far east the street running went but I can't believe that at one time Damen and Ashland didn't have wires. I worked for the county welfare Dept in '63-64. My territory was Damen to California from the e'way south to Lexington. I also remember a rail line (beltway) about 2600 west. It was elevated and it doesn't appear in this pix. Could have been elevated as part of the over-all construction?
               

              To: CHICAGOTRANSIT@yahoogroups.com
              CC: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
              From: dsadowski@...
              Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 10:21:16 -0500
              Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: [CHICAGOTRANSIT] CTA expertise needed!

               
              If that's trolley wire visible in the photograph, I'd say the cross street must be Western Avenue.


              On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 1:18 AM, interurbans <afishel@...> wrote:
               
              [Attachment(s) from interurbans included below]


              This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the detours for the building of the Congress Expressway.  

               

              Alan

               

              From: Russ Davis
              Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 7:08 PM
              Subject: CTA expertise needed!

               

              Noted, and worthy traction and transit luminaries, need some help

               

              Am having the great good fun of scanning slides from the collection of the late Vic Uzoff. And, it's got some great unpublished material. More about some of the rarities later

               

              But for now, from the more commonplace CTA, two attached

               

              Is the at-grade El crossing the only one? And, what line is it, and the name of the street being crossed?

               

              As I recall the mythology, the trains either have to be long enough so there's 3rd rail contact at one end of the train, or if it's a short train they run like hell and coast through

               

              The other Q:, the name of the class of the 2-car green set. I can always look it up, but I'm feeling lazy

               

              Thanx

               

              Russ

               




            • Scott Greig
              You re thinking of the Panhandle Line at about 2600 W...that s been elevated along with the rest of Chicago s railroads since the early part of the century. 
              Message 7 of 22 , Jul 5, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                You're thinking of the Panhandle Line at about 2600 W...that's been elevated along with the rest of Chicago's railroads since the early part of the century.  I don't know when the Horner Homes were built, but the demolition for their construction took place in the late 50s and they were constructed and in use by 1964.

                --- On Fri, 7/5/13, Raymond Bellock <rayb749@...> wrote:

                From: Raymond Bellock <rayb749@...>
                Subject: RE: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: [CHICAGOTRANSIT] CTA expertise needed!
                To: "thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com" <thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com>
                Date: Friday, July 5, 2013, 11:59 AM



                what the earliest year that the public housing high rises were built/lived in at the northwest corner of the E'way and Western Avenue. I don't know how far east the street running went but I can't believe that at one time Damen and Ashland didn't have wires. I worked for the county welfare Dept in '63-64. My territory was Damen to California from the e'way south to Lexington. I also remember a rail line (beltway) about 2600 west. It was elevated and it doesn't appear in this pix. Could have been elevated as part of the over-all construction?
                 

                To: CHICAGOTRANSIT@yahoogroups.com
                CC: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                From: dsadowski@...
                Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 10:21:16 -0500
                Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: [CHICAGOTRANSIT] CTA expertise needed!

                 
                If that's trolley wire visible in the photograph, I'd say the cross street must be Western Avenue.


                On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 1:18 AM, interurbans <afishel@...> wrote:
                 
                [Attachment(s) from interurbans included below]


                This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the detours for the building of the Congress Expressway.  

                 

                Alan

                 

                From: Russ Davis
                Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 7:08 PM
                Subject: CTA expertise needed!

                 

                Noted, and worthy traction and transit luminaries, need some help

                 

                Am having the great good fun of scanning slides from the collection of the late Vic Uzoff. And, it's got some great unpublished material. More about some of the rarities later

                 

                But for now, from the more commonplace CTA, two attached

                 

                Is the at-grade El crossing the only one? And, what line is it, and the name of the street being crossed?

                 

                As I recall the mythology, the trains either have to be long enough so there's 3rd rail contact at one end of the train, or if it's a short train they run like hell and coast through

                 

                The other Q:, the name of the class of the 2-car green set. I can always look it up, but I'm feeling lazy

                 

                Thanx

                 

                Russ

                 






              • David Sadowski
                Ashland did have streetcar service when the temporary Van Buren trackage went into service, but as this line used Red Cars, it was out of service by 1955 when
                Message 8 of 22 , Jul 5, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Ashland did have streetcar service when the temporary Van Buren trackage went into service, but as this line used Red Cars, it was out of service by 1955 when the picture was taken.  Presumably the wires had been torn down by then.

                  According the Chicago Surface Lines by Alan R. Lind, third edition, page 228, streetcar service on Ashland was replaced by buses on February 13, 1954.On page 254, the same book reports that streetcar service on Damen ended May 13, 1951, more than two years before the Van Buren operation began.




                  On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Raymond Bellock <rayb749@...> wrote:
                   

                  what the earliest year that the public housing high rises were built/lived in at the northwest corner of the E'way and Western Avenue. I don't know how far east the street running went but I can't believe that at one time Damen and Ashland didn't have wires. I worked for the county welfare Dept in '63-64. My territory was Damen to California from the e'way south to Lexington. I also remember a rail line (beltway) about 2600 west. It was elevated and it doesn't appear in this pix. Could have been elevated as part of the over-all construction?
                   

                  To: CHICAGOTRANSIT@yahoogroups.com
                  CC: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                  From: dsadowski@...
                  Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 10:21:16 -0500
                  Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: [CHICAGOTRANSIT] CTA expertise needed!


                   
                  If that's trolley wire visible in the photograph, I'd say the cross street must be Western Avenue.


                  On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 1:18 AM, interurbans <afishel@...> wrote:
                   
                  [Attachment(s) from interurbans included below]


                  This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the detours for the building of the Congress Expressway.  

                   

                  Alan

                   

                  From: Russ Davis
                  Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 7:08 PM
                  Subject: CTA expertise needed!

                   

                  Noted, and worthy traction and transit luminaries, need some help

                   

                  Am having the great good fun of scanning slides from the collection of the late Vic Uzoff. And, it's got some great unpublished material. More about some of the rarities later

                   

                  But for now, from the more commonplace CTA, two attached

                   

                  Is the at-grade El crossing the only one? And, what line is it, and the name of the street being crossed?

                   

                  As I recall the mythology, the trains either have to be long enough so there's 3rd rail contact at one end of the train, or if it's a short train they run like hell and coast through

                   

                  The other Q:, the name of the class of the 2-car green set. I can always look it up, but I'm feeling lazy

                   

                  Thanx

                   

                  Russ

                   





                • Scott Greig
                  I think this is at Western looking west, with the C&NW/PRR Panhandle Line passing overhead in the distance. ... From: interurbans
                  Message 9 of 22 , Jul 5, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I think this is at Western looking west, with the C&NW/PRR Panhandle Line passing overhead in the distance.

                    --- On Fri, 7/5/13, interurbans <afishel@...> wrote:

                    From: interurbans <afishel@...>
                    Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] CTA expertise needed! [2 Attachments]
                    To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                    Cc: CHICAGOTRANSIT@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Friday, July 5, 2013, 1:18 AM

                    [Attachment(s) from interurbans included below]

                    This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the detours for the building of the Congress Expressway.  

                     

                    Alan

                     

                    From: Russ Davis
                    Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 7:08 PM
                    Subject: CTA expertise needed!

                     

                    Noted, and worthy traction and transit luminaries, need some help

                     

                    Am having the great good fun of scanning slides from the collection of the late Vic Uzoff. And, it's got some great unpublished material. More about some of the rarities later

                     

                    But for now, from the more commonplace CTA, two attached

                     

                    Is the at-grade El crossing the only one? And, what line is it, and the name of the street being crossed?

                     

                    As I recall the mythology, the trains either have to be long enough so there's 3rd rail contact at one end of the train, or if it's a short train they run like hell and coast through

                     

                    The other Q:, the name of the class of the 2-car green set. I can always look it up, but I'm feeling lazy

                     

                    Thanx

                     

                    Russ

                     


                    Attachment(s) from interurbans

                    2 of 2 Photo(s)

                  • Scott Greig
                    Ashland had (and has) some big, impressive buildings at the Van Buren intersection, many of them trade union halls.  Clearly not visible in this view. ...
                    Message 10 of 22 , Jul 5, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Ashland had (and has) some big, impressive buildings at the Van Buren intersection, many of them trade union halls.  Clearly not visible in this view.


                      --- On Fri, 7/5/13, David Sadowski <dsadowski@...> wrote:

                      From: David Sadowski <dsadowski@...>
                      Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: [CHICAGOTRANSIT] CTA expertise needed!
                      To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Friday, July 5, 2013, 12:27 PM



                      Ashland did have streetcar service when the temporary Van Buren trackage went into service, but as this line used Red Cars, it was out of service by 1955 when the picture was taken.  Presumably the wires had been torn down by then.

                      According the Chicago Surface Lines by Alan R. Lind, third edition, page 228, streetcar service on Ashland was replaced by buses on February 13, 1954.On page 254, the same book reports that streetcar service on Damen ended May 13, 1951, more than two years before the Van Buren operation began.




                      On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Raymond Bellock <rayb749@...> wrote:
                       

                      what the earliest year that the public housing high rises were built/lived in at the northwest corner of the E'way and Western Avenue. I don't know how far east the street running went but I can't believe that at one time Damen and Ashland didn't have wires. I worked for the county welfare Dept in '63-64. My territory was Damen to California from the e'way south to Lexington. I also remember a rail line (beltway) about 2600 west. It was elevated and it doesn't appear in this pix. Could have been elevated as part of the over-all construction?
                       

                      To: CHICAGOTRANSIT@yahoogroups.com
                      CC: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                      From: dsadowski@...
                      Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 10:21:16 -0500
                      Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: [CHICAGOTRANSIT] CTA expertise needed!


                       
                      If that's trolley wire visible in the photograph, I'd say the cross street must be Western Avenue.


                      On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 1:18 AM, interurbans <afishel@...> wrote:
                       
                      [Attachment(s) from interurbans included below]


                      This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the detours for the building of the Congress Expressway.  

                       

                      Alan

                       

                      From: Russ Davis
                      Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 7:08 PM
                      Subject: CTA expertise needed!

                       

                      Noted, and worthy traction and transit luminaries, need some help

                       

                      Am having the great good fun of scanning slides from the collection of the late Vic Uzoff. And, it's got some great unpublished material. More about some of the rarities later

                       

                      But for now, from the more commonplace CTA, two attached

                       

                      Is the at-grade El crossing the only one? And, what line is it, and the name of the street being crossed?

                       

                      As I recall the mythology, the trains either have to be long enough so there's 3rd rail contact at one end of the train, or if it's a short train they run like hell and coast through

                       

                      The other Q:, the name of the class of the 2-car green set. I can always look it up, but I'm feeling lazy

                       

                      Thanx

                       

                      Russ

                       







                    • Raymond Bellock
                      enlarging the pix, the bridge behind the l cars appears to have a girder bridge on each end. This would conform to Scott s ID of the location of the panhandle
                      Message 11 of 22 , Jul 5, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        enlarging the pix, the bridge behind the l cars appears to have a girder bridge on each end. This would conform to Scott's ID of the location of the panhandle bridge about 2600 west which lends credence to the pix being Western Ave.
                         

                        To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                        From: sbgreig_m1@...
                        Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 10:35:39 -0700
                        Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: [CHICAGOTRANSIT] CTA expertise needed!

                         
                        Ashland had (and has) some big, impressive buildings at the Van Buren intersection, many of them trade union halls.  Clearly not visible in this view.


                        --- On Fri, 7/5/13, David Sadowski <dsadowski@...> wrote:

                        From: David Sadowski <dsadowski@...>
                        Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: [CHICAGOTRANSIT] CTA expertise needed!
                        To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Friday, July 5, 2013, 12:27 PM



                        Ashland did have streetcar service when the temporary Van Buren trackage went into service, but as this line used Red Cars, it was out of service by 1955 when the picture was taken.  Presumably the wires had been torn down by then.

                        According the Chicago Surface Lines by Alan R. Lind, third edition, page 228, streetcar service on Ashland was replaced by buses on February 13, 1954.On page 254, the same book reports that streetcar service on Damen ended May 13, 1951, more than two years before the Van Buren operation began.




                        On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Raymond Bellock <rayb749@...> wrote:
                         


                        what the earliest year that the public housing high rises were built/lived in at the northwest corner of the E'way and Western Avenue. I don't know how far east the street running went but I can't believe that at one time Damen and Ashland didn't have wires. I worked for the county welfare Dept in '63-64. My territory was Damen to California from the e'way south to Lexington. I also remember a rail line (beltway) about 2600 west. It was elevated and it doesn't appear in this pix. Could have been elevated as part of the over-all construction?
                         

                        To: CHICAGOTRANSIT@yahoogroups.com
                        CC: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                        From: dsadowski@...
                        Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 10:21:16 -0500
                        Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: [CHICAGOTRANSIT] CTA expertise needed!


                         
                        If that's trolley wire visible in the photograph, I'd say the cross street must be Western Avenue.


                        On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 1:18 AM, interurbans <afishel@...> wrote:
                         
                        [Attachment(s) from interurbans included below]

                        This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the detours for the building of the Congress Expressway.  
                         
                        Alan
                         
                        From: Russ Davis
                        Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 7:08 PM
                        Subject: CTA expertise needed!

                         
                        Noted, and worthy traction and transit luminaries, need some help
                         
                        Am having the great good fun of scanning slides from the collection of the late Vic Uzoff. And, it's got some great unpublished material. More about some of the rarities later
                         
                        But for now, from the more commonplace CTA, two attached
                         
                        Is the at-grade El crossing the only one? And, what line is it, and the name of the street being crossed?
                         
                        As I recall the mythology, the trains either have to be long enough so there's 3rd rail contact at one end of the train, or if it's a short train they run like hell and coast through
                         
                        The other Q:, the name of the class of the 2-car green set. I can always look it up, but I'm feeling lazy
                         
                        Thanx
                         
                        Russ
                         









                      • Larry M
                        Western ave had service at that time with both pre and post WW2 pcc cars. Service ended in 1956. I think some the PCC cars were one man and were transferred
                        Message 12 of 22 , Jul 5, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Western ave had service at that time with both pre and post WW2 pcc cars. Service ended in 1956. I think some the PCC cars were one man and were transferred from Cottage Grove when that line was bussed. 

                          L. 

                          Sent from my soon to be replaced iPhone with IOS 6.1.

                          On Jul 5, 2013, at 12:27, David Sadowski <dsadowski@...> wrote:

                           

                          Ashland did have streetcar service when the temporary Van Buren trackage went into service, but as this line used Red Cars, it was out of service by 1955 when the picture was taken.  Presumably the wires had been torn down by then.

                          According the Chicago Surface Lines by Alan R. Lind, third edition, page 228, streetcar service on Ashland was replaced by buses on February 13, 1954.On page 254, the same book reports that streetcar service on Damen ended May 13, 1951, more than two years before the Van Buren operation began.




                          On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Raymond Bellock <rayb749@...> wrote:
                           

                          what the earliest year that the public housing high rises were built/lived in at the northwest corner of the E'way and Western Avenue. I don't know how far east the street running went but I can't believe that at one time Damen and Ashland didn't have wires. I worked for the county welfare Dept in '63-64. My territory was Damen to California from the e'way south to Lexington. I also remember a rail line (beltway) about 2600 west. It was elevated and it doesn't appear in this pix. Could have been elevated as part of the over-all construction?
                           

                          To: CHICAGOTRANSIT@yahoogroups.com
                          CC: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                          From: dsadowski@...
                          Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 10:21:16 -0500
                          Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: [CHICAGOTRANSIT] CTA expertise needed!


                           
                          If that's trolley wire visible in the photograph, I'd say the cross street must be Western Avenue.


                          On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 1:18 AM, interurbans <afishel@...> wrote:
                           
                          [Attachment(s) from interurbans included below]


                          This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the detours for the building of the Congress Expressway.  

                           

                          Alan

                           

                          From: Russ Davis
                          Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 7:08 PM
                          Subject: CTA expertise needed!

                           

                          Noted, and worthy traction and transit luminaries, need some help

                           

                          Am having the great good fun of scanning slides from the collection of the late Vic Uzoff. And, it's got some great unpublished material. More about some of the rarities later

                           

                          But for now, from the more commonplace CTA, two attached

                           

                          Is the at-grade El crossing the only one? And, what line is it, and the name of the street being crossed?

                           

                          As I recall the mythology, the trains either have to be long enough so there's 3rd rail contact at one end of the train, or if it's a short train they run like hell and coast through

                           

                          The other Q:, the name of the class of the 2-car green set. I can always look it up, but I'm feeling lazy

                           

                          Thanx

                           

                          Russ

                           





                        • Roy G. Benedict
                          At Van Buren Street, Damen Avenue had trolley wires, but that line was changed to bus before the temporary alignment of the Garfield L. Ashland Boulevard did
                          Message 13 of 22 , Jul 6, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            At Van Buren Street, Damen Avenue had trolley wires, but that line was changed to bus before the temporary alignment of the Garfield L. Ashland Boulevard did not have streetcars; the Ashland cars were on Paulina Street because of the boulevard.

                            The railroad (a Chicago & North Western belt, but the Chicago entry the long way around of the Panhandle, PCC&StL) was elevated much earlier than this era, with unfortunate implications for Madison Street cable car line for a while.

                            ROY G. BENEDICT
                            R-Benedict-11@...
                            .
                            .


                            . . . I can't believe that at one time Damen and Ashland didn't have wires. . . . I also remember a rail line (beltway) about 2600 west. It was elevated and it doesn't appear in this pix. Could have been elevated as part of the over-all construction? . . .
                            ____________________________________________________________
                            1 Weird Fruit Melts Fat
                            Cut Pounds of Stomach Fat Every Week With This Secret Fruit
                            http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d86e5d817d86e5d62afst01duc
                          • minnman554212000
                            This is totally OT and has been the message has been deleted. Larry Owner The Great Third Rail. ... snip!
                            Message 14 of 22 , Jul 7, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              This is totally OT and has been the message has been deleted.

                              Larry
                              Owner
                              The Great Third Rail.

                              --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, simanton@... wrote:
                              >
                              > Then let's head down to Belmont and Laugh Our Troubles
                              snip!
                              >
                            • minnman554212000
                              I took only one trip on that line in June, 1957. By that time the Garfield Park trains went through the old CA&E station as the Van Buren L west of Wells was
                              Message 15 of 22 , Jul 7, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I took only one trip on that line in June, 1957.  By that time the Garfield Park trains went through the old CA&E station as the Van Buren L west of Wells was either being torn down or was torn down.  The section along Van Buren on the temporary track was frustrating as we did have to stop for a red traffic signal which went through a normal and usually long cycle.  Once we went back up on the L structure everything was fine.  I then took  a quick round trip on the CA&E (my only, alas) to Elmhurst. Little did I know that a few weeks later that service would come to a sudden end.   Coming back we had the 6000 series to Laramie where, for some reason, we had to transfer to the older 4000 series cars back to the Loop.  I am not sure what the rationale was for the transfer at Laramie as I would have thought that a two car 6000 set would have no issues with the street crossings if that was the reason.  By that time Western Ave. no longer had the streetcars and I believe the wires had been removed.  

                                All and all it was NOT a fun ride on the temporary tracks.X-(

                                Larry


                                --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, David Church wrote:
                                >
                                > As a side note to the Van Buren street trackage for the displaced Garfield Park L: there were NO crossing gates. And as the train approached EACH crossing , the signal much like a stop light turned red. The train had to make a complete stop then wait a complete traffic light to for green to proceed. Then move from a dead stop across each crossing trying to not stall because of flow speed and Third rail gap. It was a tortuous ride that I still well remember. No wonder CA&E wanted no part of it. It was lose lose for them. This running added a huge amount of time to each trip. Their schedule would have been a shambles.
                                >
                                > Sent from my iPhone
                                >
                                > On Jul 5, 2013, at 8:05 AM, "borowmaq@..." borowmaq@... wrote:
                                >
                                > > Hi:
                                > >
                                > > The class of cars in the first photo is the 4000s, of course, and the subgroup would be the plushies (4251-4455). The location is Lake/Wells, on the east side of the junction known as Tower 18 -- at the time, reputedly the busiest rail junction in the world. It's in front of the 201 N. Wells St. building, which has been transformed from offices to condos and still stands today. The photo was snapped from the old Randolph/Wells platform, which was a passenger stop at the time but today just houses switching equipment for the rebuilt Tower 18.
                                > > I cannot pinpoint the other photo beyond saying that it is one of the temporary crossings on Van Buren Sreet installed while the Eisenhower Expressway was under construction. And no, it was not the only one on that stretch of track, which is reputedly why the CA&E refused to use the temporary track to come downtown.
                                > >
                                > > Bob Bresse-Rodenkirk
                                > >
                                > > --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, "interurbans" afishel@ wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the
                                > > > detours for the building of the Congress Expressway.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Alan
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > From: Russ Davis
                                > > > Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 7:08 PM
                                > > > Subject: CTA expertise needed!
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Noted, and worthy traction and transit luminaries, need some help
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Am having the great good fun of scanning slides from the collection of the
                                > > > late Vic Uzoff. And, it's got some great unpublished material. More about
                                > > > some of the rarities later
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > But for now, from the more commonplace CTA, two attached
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Is the at-grade El crossing the only one? And, what line is it, and the name
                                > > > of the street being crossed?
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > As I recall the mythology, the trains either have to be long enough so
                                > > > there's 3rd rail contact at one end of the train, or if it's a short train
                                > > > they run like hell and coast through
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > The other Q:, the name of the class of the 2-car green set. I can always
                                > > > look it up, but I'm feeling lazy
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Thanx
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Russ
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Scott Greig
                                Was this on a weekend?  I seem to recall that Garfield service operated only to Laramie on weekends or just Sundays; sounds almost like the 6000s were being
                                Message 16 of 22 , Jul 7, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Was this on a weekend?  I seem to recall that Garfield service operated only to Laramie on weekends or just Sundays; sounds almost like the 6000s were being used as a connecting shuttle between Forest Park and Laramie and the 4000s were holding down the base Garfield service out of Laramie.

                                  --- On Mon, 7/8/13, minnman554212000 <minnman554212000@...> wrote:

                                  From: minnman554212000 <minnman554212000@...>
                                  Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: CTA expertise needed!
                                  To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Monday, July 8, 2013, 12:44 AM



                                  I took only one trip on that line in June, 1957.  By that time the Garfield Park trains went through the old CA&E station as the Van Buren L west of Wells was either being torn down or was torn down.  The section along Van Buren on the temporary track was frustrating as we did have to stop for a red traffic signal which went through a normal and usually long cycle.  Once we went back up on the L structure everything was fine.  I then took  a quick round trip on the CA&E (my only, alas) to Elmhurst. Little did I know that a few weeks later that service would come to a sudden end.   Coming back we had the 6000 series to Laramie where, for some reason, we had to transfer to the older 4000 series cars back to the Loop.  I am not sure what the rationale was for the transfer at Laramie as I would have thought that a two car 6000 set would have no issues with the street crossings if that was the reason.  By that time Western Ave. no longer had the streetcars and I believe the wires had been removed.  

                                  All and all it was NOT a fun ride on the temporary tracks.X-(

                                  Larry


                                  --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, David Church wrote:
                                  >
                                  > As a side note to the Van Buren street trackage for the displaced Garfield Park L: there were NO crossing gates. And as the train approached EACH crossing , the signal much like a stop light turned red. The train had to make a complete stop then wait a complete traffic light to for green to proceed. Then move from a dead stop across each crossing trying to not stall because of flow speed and Third rail gap. It was a tortuous ride that I still well remember. No wonder CA&E wanted no part of it. It was lose lose for them. This running added a huge amount of time to each trip. Their schedule would have been a shambles.
                                  >
                                  > Sent from my iPhone
                                  >
                                  > On Jul 5, 2013, at 8:05 AM, "borowmaq@..." borowmaq@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Hi:
                                  > >
                                  > > The class of cars in the first photo is the 4000s, of course, and the subgroup would be the plushies (4251-4455). The location is Lake/Wells, on the east side of the junction known as Tower 18 -- at the time, reputedly the busiest rail junction in the world. It's in front of the 201 N. Wells St. building, which has been transformed from offices to condos and still stands today. The photo was snapped from the old Randolph/Wells platform, which was a passenger stop at the time but today just houses switching equipment for the rebuilt Tower 18.
                                  > > I cannot pinpoint the other photo beyond saying that it is one of the temporary crossings on Van Buren Sreet installed while the Eisenhower Expressway was under construction. And no, it was not the only one on that stretch of track, which is reputedly why the CA&E refused to use the temporary track to come downtown.
                                  > >
                                  > > Bob Bresse-Rodenkirk
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, "interurbans" afishel@ wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the
                                  > > > detours for the building of the Congress Expressway.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Alan
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > From: Russ Davis
                                  > > > Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 7:08 PM
                                  > > > Subject: CTA expertise needed!
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Noted, and worthy traction and transit luminaries, need some help
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Am having the great good fun of scanning slides from the collection of the
                                  > > > late Vic Uzoff. And, it's got some great unpublished material. More about
                                  > > > some of the rarities later
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > But for now, from the more commonplace CTA, two attached
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Is the at-grade El crossing the only one? And, what line is it, and the name
                                  > > > of the street being crossed?
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > As I recall the mythology, the trains either have to be long enough so
                                  > > > there's 3rd rail contact at one end of the train, or if it's a short train
                                  > > > they run like hell and coast through
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > The other Q:, the name of the class of the 2-car green set. I can always
                                  > > > look it up, but I'm feeling lazy
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Thanx
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Russ
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >


                                • Larry M
                                  It was a weekday as I recall. I got downtown a few hours early and had time for the ride. I had a piano lesson afterwards at the Chicago Conservatory which
                                  Message 17 of 22 , Jul 7, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    It was a weekday as I recall. I got downtown a few hours early and had time for the ride. I had a piano lesson afterwards at the Chicago Conservatory  which was on Van Buren east of Wabash after the ride. I think the Douglas was being routed via Lake to the old Logan Square connection.

                                    Larry

                                    Sent from my soon to be replaced iPhone with IOS 6.1.

                                    On Jul 8, 2013, at 0:52, Scott Greig <sbgreig_m1@...> wrote:

                                     

                                    Was this on a weekend?  I seem to recall that Garfield service operated only to Laramie on weekends or just Sundays; sounds almost like the 6000s were being used as a connecting shuttle between Forest Park and Laramie and the 4000s were holding down the base Garfield service out of Laramie.

                                    --- On Mon, 7/8/13, minnman554212000 <minnman554212000@...> wrote:

                                    From: minnman554212000 <minnman554212000@...>
                                    Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: CTA expertise needed!
                                    To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Monday, July 8, 2013, 12:44 AM



                                    I took only one trip on that line in June, 1957.  By that time the Garfield Park trains went through the old CA&E station as the Van Buren L west of Wells was either being torn down or was torn down.  The section along Van Buren on the temporary track was frustrating as we did have to stop for a red traffic signal which went through a normal and usually long cycle.  Once we went back up on the L structure everything was fine.  I then took  a quick round trip on the CA&E (my only, alas) to Elmhurst. Little did I know that a few weeks later that service would come to a sudden end.   Coming back we had the 6000 series to Laramie where, for some reason, we had to transfer to the older 4000 series cars back to the Loop.  I am not sure what the rationale was for the transfer at Laramie as I would have thought that a two car 6000 set would have no issues with the street crossings if that was the reason.  By that time Western Ave. no longer had the streetcars and I believe the wires had been removed.  

                                    All and all it was NOT a fun ride on the temporary tracks.X-(

                                    Larry


                                    --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, David Church wrote:
                                    >
                                    > As a side note to the Van Buren street trackage for the displaced Garfield Park L: there were NO crossing gates. And as the train approached EACH crossing , the signal much like a stop light turned red. The train had to make a complete stop then wait a complete traffic light to for green to proceed. Then move from a dead stop across each crossing trying to not stall because of flow speed and Third rail gap. It was a tortuous ride that I still well remember. No wonder CA&E wanted no part of it. It was lose lose for them. This running added a huge amount of time to each trip. Their schedule would have been a shambles.
                                    >
                                    > Sent from my iPhone
                                    >
                                    > On Jul 5, 2013, at 8:05 AM, "borowmaq@..." borowmaq@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > Hi:
                                    > >
                                    > > The class of cars in the first photo is the 4000s, of course, and the subgroup would be the plushies (4251-4455). The location is Lake/Wells, on the east side of the junction known as Tower 18 -- at the time, reputedly the busiest rail junction in the world. It's in front of the 201 N. Wells St. building, which has been transformed from offices to condos and still stands today. The photo was snapped from the old Randolph/Wells platform, which was a passenger stop at the time but today just houses switching equipment for the rebuilt Tower 18.
                                    > > I cannot pinpoint the other photo beyond saying that it is one of the temporary crossings on Van Buren Sreet installed while the Eisenhower Expressway was under construction. And no, it was not the only one on that stretch of track, which is reputedly why the CA&E refused to use the temporary track to come downtown.
                                    > >
                                    > > Bob Bresse-Rodenkirk
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, "interurbans" afishel@ wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the
                                    > > > detours for the building of the Congress Expressway.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Alan
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > From: Russ Davis
                                    > > > Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 7:08 PM
                                    > > > Subject: CTA expertise needed!
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Noted, and worthy traction and transit luminaries, need some help
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Am having the great good fun of scanning slides from the collection of the
                                    > > > late Vic Uzoff. And, it's got some great unpublished material. More about
                                    > > > some of the rarities later
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > But for now, from the more commonplace CTA, two attached
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Is the at-grade El crossing the only one? And, what line is it, and the name
                                    > > > of the street being crossed?
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > As I recall the mythology, the trains either have to be long enough so
                                    > > > there's 3rd rail contact at one end of the train, or if it's a short train
                                    > > > they run like hell and coast through
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > The other Q:, the name of the class of the 2-car green set. I can always
                                    > > > look it up, but I'm feeling lazy
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Thanx
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Russ
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >


                                  • rpcosyn
                                    I commuted round trip from the south side of Chicago to York High in Elmhurst for 3 months in early 1954. This was about 3 months after the CA&E stopped
                                    Message 18 of 22 , Jul 8, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I commuted round trip from the south side of Chicago to York High in Elmhurst for 3 months in early 1954. This was about 3 months after the CA&E stopped running into the loop. The stop and go on the L was a real drag along Van Buren, but once I got on the Roaring Elgin at FP it was like a dream come true. We literally flew.



                                      -- Sent from my HP TouchPad

                                      On Jul 7, 2013 10:45 PM, minnman554212000 <minnman554212000@...> wrote:
                                       

                                      I took only one trip on that line in June, 1957.  By that time the Garfield Park trains went through the old CA&E station as the Van Buren L west of Wells was either being torn down or was torn down.  The section along Van Buren on the temporary track was frustrating as we did have to stop for a red traffic signal which went through a normal and usually long cycle.  Once we went back up on the L structure everything was fine.  I then took  a quick round trip on the CA&E (my only, alas) to Elmhurst. Little did I know that a few weeks later that service would come to a sudden end.   Coming back we had the 6000 series to Laramie where, for some reason, we had to transfer to the older 4000 series cars back to the Loop.  I am not sure what the rationale was for the transfer at Laramie as I would have thought that a two car 6000 set would have no issues with the street crossings if that was the reason.  By that time Western Ave. no longer had the streetcars and I believe the wires had been removed.  


                                      All and all it was NOT a fun ride on the temporary tracks.X-(

                                      Larry


                                      --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, David Church wrote:
                                      >
                                      > As a side note to the Van Buren street trackage for the displaced Garfield Park L: there were NO crossing gates. And as the train approached EACH crossing , the signal much like a stop light turned red. The train had to make a complete stop then wait a complete traffic light to for green to proceed. Then move from a dead stop across each crossing trying to not stall because of flow speed and Third rail gap. It was a tortuous ride that I still well remember. No wonder CA&E wanted no part of it. It was lose lose for them. This running added a huge amount of time to each trip. Their schedule would have been a shambles.
                                      >
                                      > Sent from my iPhone
                                      >
                                      > On Jul 5, 2013, at 8:05 AM, "borowmaq@..." borowmaq@... wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > Hi:
                                      > >
                                      > > The class of cars in the first photo is the 4000s, of course, and the subgroup would be the plushies (4251-4455). The location is Lake/Wells, on the east side of the junction known as Tower 18 -- at the time, reputedly the busiest rail junction in the world. It's in front of the 201 N. Wells St. building, which has been transformed from offices to condos and still stands today. The photo was snapped from the old Randolph/Wells platform, which was a passenger stop at the time but today just houses switching equipment for the rebuilt Tower 18.
                                      > > I cannot pinpoint the other photo beyond saying that it is one of the temporary crossings on Van Buren Sreet installed while the Eisenhower Expressway was under construction. And no, it was not the only one on that stretch of track, which is reputedly why the CA&E refused to use the temporary track to come downtown.
                                      > >
                                      > > Bob Bresse-Rodenkirk
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, "interurbans" afishel@ wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the
                                      > > > detours for the building of the Congress Expressway.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Alan
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > From: Russ Davis
                                      > > > Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 7:08 PM
                                      > > > Subject: CTA expertise needed!
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Noted, and worthy traction and transit luminaries, need some help
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Am having the great good fun of scanning slides from the collection of the
                                      > > > late Vic Uzoff. And, it's got some great unpublished material. More about
                                      > > > some of the rarities later
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > But for now, from the more commonplace CTA, two attached
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Is the at-grade El crossing the only one? And, what line is it, and the name
                                      > > > of the street being crossed?
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > As I recall the mythology, the trains either have to be long enough so
                                      > > > there's 3rd rail contact at one end of the train, or if it's a short train
                                      > > > they run like hell and coast through
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > The other Q:, the name of the class of the 2-car green set. I can always
                                      > > > look it up, but I'm feeling lazy
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thanx
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Russ
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >

                                    • David T. Koyzis
                                      I assume you don t mean literally literally. ;-) David T. Koyzis | Professor and Chair, Political Science Redeemer University College | 777 Garner Road East
                                      Message 19 of 22 , Jul 8, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I assume you don't mean "literally" literally. ;-)



                                        David T. Koyzis | Professor and Chair, Political Science
                                        Redeemer University College | 777 Garner Road East | Ancaster, ON L9K 1J4
                                        905.648.2139 x4251 | 1.877.779.0913 | F: 905.648.2134
                                        dkoyzis@... | www.redeemer.ca





                                        From: rpcosyn@...
                                        To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Monday, 8 July, 2013 8:34:27 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: CTA expertise needed!

                                         

                                        I commuted round trip from the south side of Chicago to York High in Elmhurst for 3 months in early 1954. This was about 3 months after the CA&E stopped running into the loop. The stop and go on the L was a real drag along Van Buren, but once I got on the Roaring Elgin at FP it was like a dream come true. We literally flew.



                                        -- Sent from my HP TouchPad

                                        On Jul 7, 2013 10:45 PM, minnman554212000 <minnman554212000@...> wrote:
                                         

                                        I took only one trip on that line in June, 1957.  By that time the Garfield Park trains went through the old CA&E station as the Van Buren L west of Wells was either being torn down or was torn down.  The section along Van Buren on the temporary track was frustrating as we did have to stop for a red traffic signal which went through a normal and usually long cycle.  Once we went back up on the L structure everything was fine.  I then took  a quick round trip on the CA&E (my only, alas) to Elmhurst. Little did I know that a few weeks later that service would come to a sudden end.   Coming back we had the 6000 series to Laramie where, for some reason, we had to transfer to the older 4000 series cars back to the Loop.  I am not sure what the rationale was for the transfer at Laramie as I would have thought that a two car 6000 set would have no issues with the street crossings if that was the reason.  By t hat time Western Ave. no longer had the streetcars and I believe the wires had been removed.  


                                        All and all it was NOT a fun ride on the temporary tracks.X-(

                                        Larry


                                        --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, David Church wrote:
                                        >
                                        > As a side note to the Van Buren street trackage for the displaced Garfield Park L: there were NO crossing gates. And as the train approached EACH crossing , the signal much like a stop light turned red. The train had to make a complete stop then wait a complete traffic light to for green to proceed. Then move from a dead stop across each crossing trying to not stall because of flow speed and Third rail gap. It was a tortuous ride that I still well remember. No wonder CA&E wanted no part of it. It was lose lose for them. This running added a huge amount of time to each trip. Their schedule would have been a shambles.
                                        >
                                        > Sent from my iPhone
                                        >
                                        > On Jul 5, 2013, at 8:05 AM, "borowmaq@..." borowmaq@... wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Hi:
                                        > >
                                        > > The class of cars in the first photo is the 4000s, of course, and the subgroup would be the plushies (4251-4455). The location is Lake/Wells, on the east side of the junction known as Tower 18 -- at the time, reputedly the busiest rail junction in the world. It's in front of the 201 N. Wells St. building, which has been transformed from offices to condos and still stands today. The photo was snapped from the old Randolph/Wells platform, which was a passenger stop at the time but today just houses switching equipment for the rebuilt Tower 18.
                                        > > I can not pinpoint the other photo beyond saying that it is one of the temporary crossings on Van Buren Sreet installed while the Eisenhower Expressway was under construction. And no, it was not the only one on that stretch of track, which is reputedly why the CA&E refused to use the temporary track to come downtown.
                                        > >
                                        > > Bob Bresse-Rodenkirk
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, "interurbans" afishel@ wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the
                                        > > > detours for the building of the Congress Expressway.
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Alan
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > From: Russ Davis
                                        > > > Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 7:08 PM
                                        > > > Subject: CTA expertise needed!
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Noted, and worthy traction and transit luminaries, need some help
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Am having the great good fun of scanning slides from the collection of the
                                        > > > late Vic Uzoff. And, it's got some great unpublished material. More about
                                        > > > some of the rarities later
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > But for now, from the more commonplace CTA, two attached
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Is the at-grade El crossing the only one? And, what line is it, and the name
                                        > > > of the street being crossed?
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > As I recall the mythology, the trains either have to be long enough so
                                        > > > there's 3rd rail contact at one end of the train, or if it's a short train
                                        > > > they run like hell and coast through> > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > The other Q:, the name of the class of the 2-car green set. I can always
                                        > > > look it up, but I'm feeling lazy
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Thanx
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Russ
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >


                                      • George
                                        ... In December 1951 CTA abandoned L service west of Desplaines Avenue to Westchester. CTA initiated bus service to Westchester from Desplaines. CA&E started
                                        Message 20 of 22 , Jul 8, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, Scott Greig <sbgreig_m1@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Was this on a weekend?  I seem to recall that Garfield service operated only to Laramie on weekends or just Sundays; sounds almost like the 6000s were being used as a connecting shuttle between Forest Park and Laramie and the 4000s were holding down the base Garfield service out of Laramie.
                                          >
                                          In December 1951 CTA abandoned "L" service west of Desplaines Avenue to Westchester. CTA initiated bus service to Westchester from Desplaines. CA&E started serving local stops in Maywood and Bellwood and the tracks from Bellwood to Westchester were taken up. On Sundays, the Garfield Park "L" was terminated at Laramie Avenue. The Westchester bus was extended to the Marion station of the Lake Street "L". CTA started a Sunday-only bus line called "Garfield Park" from Desplaines through Oak Park on Harrison Street and connecting with the Lake "L" at Central Avenue station. On Sundays, CA&E offered local service at Desplaines, Oak Park Avenue, and added a stop at Austin Boulevard on the Oak Park/Chicago boundary. On September 20, 1953, coincident with CA&E ending service east of Forest Park, CTA reinstated 24/7 Garfield "L" service to Desplaines Avenue, connecting to CA&E.
                                        • rpcosyn
                                          Figuratively, however given the bump, pull, jerk of the L ride it actually felt like flying. -- Sent from my HP TouchPad On Jul 8, 2013 7:30 AM, David T.
                                          Message 21 of 22 , Jul 8, 2013
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Figuratively, however given the bump, pull, jerk of the L ride it actually felt like flying.



                                            -- Sent from my HP TouchPad

                                            On Jul 8, 2013 7:30 AM, David T. Koyzis <dkoyzis@...> wrote:
                                             

                                            I assume you don't mean "literally" literally. ;-)



                                            David T. Koyzis | Professor and Chair, Political Science
                                            Redeemer University College | 777 Garner Road East | Ancaster, ON L9K 1J4
                                            905.648.2139 x4251 | 1.877.779.0913 | F: 905.648.2134
                                            dkoyzis@... | www.redeemer.ca





                                            From: rpcosyn@...
                                            To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Monday, 8 July, 2013 8:34:27 AM
                                            Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: CTA expertise needed!

                                             

                                            I commuted round trip from the south side of Chicago to York High in Elmhurst for 3 months in early 1954. This was about 3 months after the CA&E stopped running into the loop. The stop and go on the L was a real drag along Van Buren, but once I got on the Roaring Elgin at FP it was like a dream come true. We literally flew.



                                            -- Sent from my HP TouchPad

                                            On Jul 7, 2013 10:45 PM, minnman554212000 <minnman554212000@...> wrote:
                                             

                                            I took only one trip on that line in June, 1957.  By that time the Garfield Park trains went through the old CA&E station as the Van Buren L west of Wells was either being torn down or was torn down.  The section along Van Buren on the temporary track was frustrating as we did have to stop for a red traffic signal which went through a normal and usually long cycle.  Once we went back up on the L structure everything was fine.  I then took  a quick round trip on the CA&E (my only, alas) to Elmhurst. Little did I know that a few weeks later that service would come to a sudden end.   Coming back we had the 6000 series to Laramie where, for some reason, we had to transfer to the older 4000 series cars back to the Loop.  I am not sure what the rationale was for the transfer at Laramie as I would have thought that a two car 6000 set would have no issues with the street crossings if that was the reason.  By t hat time Western Ave. no longer had the streetcars and I believe the wires had been removed.  


                                            All and all it was NOT a fun ride on the temporary tracks.X-(

                                            Larry


                                            --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, David Church wrote:
                                            >
                                            > As a side note to the Van Buren street trackage for the displaced Garfield Park L: there were NO crossing gates. And as the train approached EACH crossing , the signal much like a stop light turned red. The train had to make a complete stop then wait a complete traffic light to for green to proceed. Then move from a dead stop across each crossing trying to not stall because of flow speed and Third rail gap. It was a tortuous ride that I still well remember. No wonder CA&E wanted no part of it. It was lose lose for them. This running added a huge amount of time to each trip. Their schedule would have been a shambles.
                                            >
                                            > Sent from my iPhone
                                            >
                                            > On Jul 5, 2013, at 8:05 AM, "borowmaq@..." borowmaq@... wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > Hi:
                                            > >
                                            > > The class of cars in the first photo is the 4000s, of course, and the subgroup would be the plushies (4251-4455). The location is Lake/Wells, on the east side of the junction known as Tower 18 -- at the time, reputedly the busiest rail junction in the world. It's in front of the 201 N. Wells St. building, which has been transformed from offices to condos and still stands today. The photo was snapped from the old Randolph/Wells platform, which was a passenger stop at the time but today just houses switching equipment for the rebuilt Tower 18.
                                            > > I can not pinpoint the other photo beyond saying that it is one of the temporary crossings on Van Buren Sreet installed while the Eisenhower Expressway was under construction. And no, it was not the only one on that stretch of track, which is reputedly why the CA&E refused to use the temporary track to come downtown.
                                            > >
                                            > > Bob Bresse-Rodenkirk
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, "interurbans" afishel@ wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > This kind of fits with the discussion on the Garfield Park line and the
                                            > > > detours for the building of the Congress Expressway.
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Alan
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > From: Russ Davis
                                            > > > Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 7:08 PM
                                            > > > Subject: CTA expertise needed!
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Noted, and worthy traction and transit luminaries, need some help
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Am having the great good fun of scanning slides from the collection of the
                                            > > > late Vic Uzoff. And, it's got some great unpublished material. More about
                                            > > > some of the rarities later
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > But for now, from the more commonplace CTA, two attached
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Is the at-grade El crossing the only one? And, what line is it, and the name
                                            > > > of the street being crossed?
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > As I recall the mythology, the trains either have to be long enough so
                                            > > > there's 3rd rail contact at one end of the train, or if it's a short train
                                            > > > they run like hell and coast through> > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > The other Q:, the name of the class of the 2-car green set. I can always
                                            > > > look it up, but I'm feeling lazy
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Thanx
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Russ
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >


                                          • Roy G. Benedict
                                            It was not normal operation to change trains at Laramie as Larry experienced (below). Laramie was the terminal for storage and maintenance of Garfield
                                            Message 22 of 22 , Jul 9, 2013
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              It was not normal operation to change trains at Laramie as Larry experienced (below). Laramie was the terminal for storage and maintenance of Garfield equipment, so I presume he happened to encounter a situation where the 6000s were being called in for some problem.

                                              David is right (below) that the Van Buren Street operation of CTA trains seemed very slow. The key word is seemed. However, it is easy to overlook that it eliminated six station stops along that stretch, and a few others elsewhere along the Garfield route in the same era. One of the employees of the CTA Staff Engineer's Office commuted on the CA&E and recorded his results, which I believe we published a dozen or so years ago. His study showed, if I recall, a small rather than huge cost in time.

                                              ROY G. BENEDICT
                                              R-Benedict-11@...
                                              .
                                              .

                                              From: "minnman554212000" <minnman554212000@...>
                                              To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: CTA expertise needed!
                                              Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2013 05:44:56 -0000

                                              I took only one trip on that line in June, 1957. By that time the Garfield Park trains went through the old CA&E station as the Van Buren L west of Wells was either being torn down or was torn down. . . . I then took a quick round trip on the CA&E (my only, alas) to Elmhurst. Little did I know that a few weeks later that service would come to a sudden end. Coming back we had the 6000 series to Laramie where, for some reason, we had to transfer to the older 4000 series cars back to the Loop. I am not sure what the rationale was for the transfer at Laramie . . . All and all it was NOT a fun ride on the temporary tracks.

                                              Larry



                                              --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, David Church wrote:
                                              >
                                              > As a side note to the Van Buren street trackage for the displaced Garfield Park L: there were NO crossing gates. And as the train approached EACH crossing , the signal much like a stop light turned red. The train had to make a complete stop then wait a complete traffic light to for green to proceed. Then move from a dead stop across each crossing trying to not stall because of flow speed and Third rail gap. It was a tortuous ride that I still well remember. No wonder CA&E wanted no part of it. It was lose lose for them. This running added a huge amount of time to each trip. Their schedule would have been a shambles.
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