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Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: Car 320 in Iowa

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  • FRED WALTER
    The upper windows were a maintenance problem. They were a point where water got into the car body and rotted out the wood. Both the inner and outer upper
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 20, 2006
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      The upper windows were a maintenance problem. They were a point where water got into the car body and rotted out the wood. Both the inner and outer upper windows were leaded stained glass.  My source of information was the original restoration plan for 315 which is at the Rockhill Trolley Museum.

      glen brewer <gbrewer@...> wrote:
      What a beautiful job of restoration!  I especially like the upper
      window sashes.  Why, oh why, did the CA&E ever cover them up?





    • Mike
      For those of you not residing in the Chicago area..I have an interesting story that I grabbed off the Chicago Tribune this morning. You could go to the site
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 20, 2006
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        For those of you not residing in the Chicago area..I
        have an interesting story that I grabbed off the
        Chicago Tribune this morning. You could go to the
        site to read it directly however you might have to go
        thru a registration process which can be a pain...So
        here it is word for word.



        Chicago's first "L" car, put into service in 1893 to
        carry visitors from the Loop to the World's Columbian
        Exposition, was hoisted Thursday into a museum's
        second story, elevating it to a cherished artifact of
        the city's history.
        Passengers paid 5 cents for a one-way ride to or from
        the Hyde Park fairgrounds aboard the steam-powered
        vehicle, designated by the Chicago Transit Authority
        as "L" Car No. 1. Transporting the 21-ton car by truck
        from the Skokie CTA facility, where it had been
        stored, to its new home, at the Chicago Historical
        Society, cost $150,000.
        The move was made in two stages. On Wednesday, Belding
        Walbridge, a firm that specializes in moving and
        installing industrial machinery such as automotive
        stamping machines, gingerly carried the 113-year-old
        car on a flatbed truck to the museum at Clark Street
        and North Avenue.
        On Thursday morning, an industrial crane capable of
        lifting up to 400,000 pounds easily raised the "L" car
        and gently placed it in the building through a hole in
        the museum's south wall.
        During the move along city streets, the 46-foot-long,
        13-foot-high "L" car looked like nothing more than a
        giant rectangular crate, as it was tightly covered in
        protective shrink-wrap. The vehicle's old canvas roof
        also was protected by layers of foam to protect it
        from being scraped or torn by low branches of trees.
        "Underneath all of that is a beautiful object," museum
        conservator Holly Lundberg said Thursday morning just
        before the car was hoisted from the truck.
        "The car's exterior is painted just as it was in 1893,
        in a sort of dark avocado green with lovely gold
        trim," said Lundberg, who worked with other museum
        staffers in prepping and repairing the car weeks
        before the move. "The interior is beautiful mahogany
        wood, etched glass windows and rattan seats."
        In 1898 the car was fitted with electric motors and a
        motorman's cab was added on. It remained in service
        until about 1930, then was preserved by the CTA and
        operated occasionally for historic celebrations.
        The "L" car will be a centerpiece of the rejuvenated
        museum, scheduled to reopen Sept. 30. Nearly all
        exhibition spaces in the museum were closed and gutted
        early last year for a $27.5 million remodeling project
        that involves reconfiguring every public space and
        changing much of the contents and display philosophy.
        The museum had to put in a new, reinforced floor to
        support the weight of the "L" car and the first
        railroad locomotive to serve Chicago, the 12-ton
        Pioneer, which pulled trains between Chicago and
        Galena starting in 1848.
        One of the themes of the reconstituted museum will be
        to show the city as a great economic, cultural and
        social crossroads, said Russell Lewis, the museum's
        executive vice president and chief historian. The "L"
        car and Pioneer locomotive will have major roles in
        telling those stories.
        Visitors will be able to board the "L" car from a
        re-created early train platform, Lewis said. "The idea
        is to get people imagining that they are getting on to
        go to the World's Fair.
        "There will be three cast figures sitting on the
        platform having a conversation," he said. "One will be
        an unnamed ironworker who helped build the fair's
        Ferris wheel, one will be Ida B. Wells, the 19th
        Century civil rights activist, and one will represent
        18-year-old Mabel Treseder from Viola, Wis. She came
        to the fair with her family, and we have her charming
        commentary on the fair preserved in her letters."

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      • riispark99
        I SAW THE SAME ARTICLE IN THE SUN-TIMES ON WEDNESDAY. I WAS WONDERING IF ANYONE KNOWS WHAT OTHER TREASURES ARE HOUSED AT THE SKOKIE REPAIR SHOP.
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 20, 2006
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          I SAW THE SAME ARTICLE IN THE SUN-TIMES ON WEDNESDAY. I WAS
          WONDERING IF ANYONE KNOWS WHAT OTHER TREASURES ARE HOUSED AT THE
          SKOKIE REPAIR SHOP.

          --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, Mike <mi0ke@y...> wrote:
          >
          > For those of you not residing in the Chicago area..I
          > have an interesting story that I grabbed off the
          > Chicago Tribune this morning. You could go to the
          > site to read it directly however you might have to go
          > thru a registration process which can be a pain...So
          > here it is word for word.
          >
          >
          >
          > Chicago's first "L" car, put into service in 1893 to
          > carry visitors from the Loop to the World's Columbian
          > Exposition, was hoisted Thursday into a museum's
          > second story, elevating it to a cherished artifact of
          > the city's history.
          > Passengers paid 5 cents for a one-way ride to or from
          > the Hyde Park fairgrounds aboard the steam-powered
          > vehicle, designated by the Chicago Transit Authority
          > as "L" Car No. 1. Transporting the 21-ton car by truck
          > from the Skokie CTA facility, where it had been
          > stored, to its new home, at the Chicago Historical
          > Society, cost $150,000.
          > The move was made in two stages. On Wednesday, Belding
          > Walbridge, a firm that specializes in moving and
          > installing industrial machinery such as automotive
          > stamping machines, gingerly carried the 113-year-old
          > car on a flatbed truck to the museum at Clark Street
          > and North Avenue.
          > On Thursday morning, an industrial crane capable of
          > lifting up to 400,000 pounds easily raised the "L" car
          > and gently placed it in the building through a hole in
          > the museum's south wall.
          > During the move along city streets, the 46-foot-long,
          > 13-foot-high "L" car looked like nothing more than a
          > giant rectangular crate, as it was tightly covered in
          > protective shrink-wrap. The vehicle's old canvas roof
          > also was protected by layers of foam to protect it
          > from being scraped or torn by low branches of trees.
          > "Underneath all of that is a beautiful object," museum
          > conservator Holly Lundberg said Thursday morning just
          > before the car was hoisted from the truck.
          > "The car's exterior is painted just as it was in 1893,
          > in a sort of dark avocado green with lovely gold
          > trim," said Lundberg, who worked with other museum
          > staffers in prepping and repairing the car weeks
          > before the move. "The interior is beautiful mahogany
          > wood, etched glass windows and rattan seats."
          > In 1898 the car was fitted with electric motors and a
          > motorman's cab was added on. It remained in service
          > until about 1930, then was preserved by the CTA and
          > operated occasionally for historic celebrations.
          > The "L" car will be a centerpiece of the rejuvenated
          > museum, scheduled to reopen Sept. 30. Nearly all
          > exhibition spaces in the museum were closed and gutted
          > early last year for a $27.5 million remodeling project
          > that involves reconfiguring every public space and
          > changing much of the contents and display philosophy.
          > The museum had to put in a new, reinforced floor to
          > support the weight of the "L" car and the first
          > railroad locomotive to serve Chicago, the 12-ton
          > Pioneer, which pulled trains between Chicago and
          > Galena starting in 1848.
          > One of the themes of the reconstituted museum will be
          > to show the city as a great economic, cultural and
          > social crossroads, said Russell Lewis, the museum's
          > executive vice president and chief historian. The "L"
          > car and Pioneer locomotive will have major roles in
          > telling those stories.
          > Visitors will be able to board the "L" car from a
          > re-created early train platform, Lewis said. "The idea
          > is to get people imagining that they are getting on to
          > go to the World's Fair.
          > "There will be three cast figures sitting on the
          > platform having a conversation," he said. "One will be
          > an unnamed ironworker who helped build the fair's
          > Ferris wheel, one will be Ida B. Wells, the 19th
          > Century civil rights activist, and one will represent
          > 18-year-old Mabel Treseder from Viola, Wis. She came
          > to the fair with her family, and we have her charming
          > commentary on the fair preserved in her letters."
          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail.yahoo.com
          >
        • thegreatthirdrail
          Similar story in the Sun-Times yesterday. http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-car18.html I m somewhat surprised by this turn of events. CTA, after
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 20, 2006
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            Similar story in the Sun-Times yesterday.

            http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-car18.html

            I'm somewhat surprised by this turn of events. CTA, after giving up all
            the other items in it's historical collection had kept a tight grip on
            South Side Rapid Transit #1 all these years. I'm sort of surprised that
            it didn't end up at IRM, certainly they would have been more than happy
            to have it. I beleive the last time #1 was out and about in any type of
            sustained use was the L-Centenial in 1992. I'd only seen the car a
            couple of times through sneak peaks into the Skokie Shops property over
            the last 30 years, to see it up close was amazing enough, to actually
            have it on the elevated structure and be able to enter the car itself
            was a dream come true. Good to see that it will stay in Chicago and be
            in a display that puts the car into the proper context.

            John
          • Barry G. Smith
            Hi Y All, By the 30 s, 40 s and even the 50 s, the stained glass upper window sashes became a maintenance problem and difficult, if not impossible to
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 20, 2006
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              Hi Y'All,
               
              By the '30's, '40's and even the '50's, the stained glass upper window sashes became
              a maintenance problem and difficult, if not impossible to replace due to breakage, etc.
              As a result, the lines that still operated cars so equipped paneled them over or replaced
              them with wood or steel paneling. This included the CA&E, Illinois Terminal and others.
              The London & Port Stanley replaced them with steel panels on a few cars. All the active
              remaining Philadelphia "Side-Door" cars had theirs replaced with new plywood paneling
              in 1959. I recall riding some of these with the green stained glass cracked, if not broken
              with pieces missing! The suviving Side-Door cars in museums today had the stained glass
              arched windowa restored at the museums.
               
              Barry S.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: glen brewer
              Sent: Jan 20, 2006 9:20 AM
              To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: Car 320 in Iowa

              What a beautiful job of restoration!  I especially like the upper
              window sashes.  Why, oh why, did the CA&E ever cover them up?
            • George Foelschow
              It s best that the L car is no longer in CTA s hands. I was fortunate to witness the removal of historic equipment from the closed carbarn at Lincoln and
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 21, 2006
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                It's best that the "L" car is no longer in CTA's hands. I was
                fortunate to witness the removal of historic equipment from the closed
                carbarn at Lincoln and Wrightwood in the mid 70s. The moving crew
                almost destroyed a streetcar in their attempts to remove it from the
                barn and load it onto a flatbed truck. It was evident that all of the
                cars there had simply been left for years in that carbarn to rot. Very
                sad.
              • thegreatthirdrail
                I don t neccessarily feel that SSRT #1 was in any danger in CTA hands. If anything, it might have been endangered more for the amount of space, money, and time
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 22, 2006
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                  I don't neccessarily feel that SSRT #1 was in any danger in CTA
                  hands. If anything, it might have been endangered more for the
                  amount of space, money, and time it took up (however little that may
                  have been in recent years).

                  While I didn't witness the removal of the equipment from the Lincoln-
                  Wrightwood carbarn, I can attest that in the years just immediately
                  prior to those cars being removed that literally anyone could, with
                  minimal effort, come in off the street and access those cars. My
                  first experience with those cars came as the result of a teenaged
                  bicycle ride down Lincoln Ave. While I lived on the north side of
                  the city, the old Clark/Devon carbarn had been a favorite place to
                  check out, even though it was long since empty and soon to be torn
                  down for a new police station. Seeing the Lincoln Ave barn and the
                  chance to tour another CSL barn,I made a brief detour, and seeing
                  that the plywood over one of the doors was torn aside, I looked and
                  then stepped inside.

                  At that moment, I had, what to do this day is still one of the
                  greatest surprises of my life, I was looking at a CSL streetcar.
                  To say I was in shock was an understatement. I was able to climb
                  into the building ,walk around the car, etc. Some noise and
                  movement farther back in the building scared me off, god only knows
                  who was also in there and doing what, but those 4-5 minutes were as
                  close to Indiana Jones and Raiders of the Last Ark as I think I'll
                  ever get.

                  Amazing that after all this time, all these cars found good homes.

                  Another thought about this car, and bringing our discussions back to
                  the CA&E.. how strange is it that SSRT #1, being only slightly older
                  than CA&E #20 at FRTM is now to be entombed and cared for in a very
                  pristine environment, while #20 keeps churning out the miles in
                  museum operation ? Considering that there isn't that huge of a
                  difference age wise is one thing, but then also consider that for
                  the majoirty of the last 50 years that SSRT#1 has been in doors and
                  cared for by professionals, and CA&E #20 has been in the care and
                  service of museum volunteers, and was out doors for a goodly chunk
                  of time as well. I think this says a lot about museum volunteers and
                  operations, and especially FRTM which has always had to operate on a
                  very limited budget when most of the money and attention goes to
                  bigger cousin IRM.

                  John C
                • Joe Stupar
                  I was at Skokie Shops for rail rodeo this year, and there are not that many treasures left there. I was able to walk through car 1 while it was still on rails
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 23, 2006
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                    I was at Skokie Shops for rail rodeo this year, and
                    there are not that many treasures left there. I was
                    able to walk through car 1 while it was still on rails
                    though, with a stinger on it so they could have the
                    lights on. They also keep the historic 4000 pair
                    there, and those newer cars that are repainted for
                    South Side Rapid Transit. My understanding is that
                    Skokie (and perhaps CTA in general) has no desire to
                    keep any historic equipment around any more.

                    --- riispark99 <kend@...> wrote:

                    > I SAW THE SAME ARTICLE IN THE SUN-TIMES ON
                    > WEDNESDAY. I WAS
                    > WONDERING IF ANYONE KNOWS WHAT OTHER TREASURES ARE
                    > HOUSED AT THE
                    > SKOKIE REPAIR SHOP.
                    >
                    > --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, Mike
                    > <mi0ke@y...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > For those of you not residing in the Chicago
                    > area..I
                    > > have an interesting story that I grabbed off the
                    > > Chicago Tribune this morning. You could go to the
                    > > site to read it directly however you might have to
                    > go
                    > > thru a registration process which can be a
                    > pain...So
                    > > here it is word for word.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Chicago's first "L" car, put into service in 1893
                    > to
                    > > carry visitors from the Loop to the World's
                    > Columbian
                    > > Exposition, was hoisted Thursday into a museum's
                    > > second story, elevating it to a cherished artifact
                    > of
                    > > the city's history.
                    > > Passengers paid 5 cents for a one-way ride to or
                    > from
                    > > the Hyde Park fairgrounds aboard the steam-powered
                    > > vehicle, designated by the Chicago Transit
                    > Authority
                    > > as "L" Car No. 1. Transporting the 21-ton car by
                    > truck
                    > > from the Skokie CTA facility, where it had been
                    > > stored, to its new home, at the Chicago Historical
                    > > Society, cost $150,000.
                    > > The move was made in two stages. On Wednesday,
                    > Belding
                    > > Walbridge, a firm that specializes in moving and
                    > > installing industrial machinery such as automotive
                    > > stamping machines, gingerly carried the
                    > 113-year-old
                    > > car on a flatbed truck to the museum at Clark
                    > Street
                    > > and North Avenue.
                    > > On Thursday morning, an industrial crane capable
                    > of
                    > > lifting up to 400,000 pounds easily raised the "L"
                    > car
                    > > and gently placed it in the building through a
                    > hole in
                    > > the museum's south wall.
                    > > During the move along city streets, the
                    > 46-foot-long,
                    > > 13-foot-high "L" car looked like nothing more than
                    > a
                    > > giant rectangular crate, as it was tightly covered
                    > in
                    > > protective shrink-wrap. The vehicle's old canvas
                    > roof
                    > > also was protected by layers of foam to protect it
                    > > from being scraped or torn by low branches of
                    > trees.
                    > > "Underneath all of that is a beautiful object,"
                    > museum
                    > > conservator Holly Lundberg said Thursday morning
                    > just
                    > > before the car was hoisted from the truck.
                    > > "The car's exterior is painted just as it was in
                    > 1893,
                    > > in a sort of dark avocado green with lovely gold
                    > > trim," said Lundberg, who worked with other museum
                    > > staffers in prepping and repairing the car weeks
                    > > before the move. "The interior is beautiful
                    > mahogany
                    > > wood, etched glass windows and rattan seats."
                    > > In 1898 the car was fitted with electric motors
                    > and a
                    > > motorman's cab was added on. It remained in
                    > service
                    > > until about 1930, then was preserved by the CTA
                    > and
                    > > operated occasionally for historic celebrations.
                    > > The "L" car will be a centerpiece of the
                    > rejuvenated
                    > > museum, scheduled to reopen Sept. 30. Nearly all
                    > > exhibition spaces in the museum were closed and
                    > gutted
                    > > early last year for a $27.5 million remodeling
                    > project
                    > > that involves reconfiguring every public space and
                    > > changing much of the contents and display
                    > philosophy.
                    > > The museum had to put in a new, reinforced floor
                    > to
                    > > support the weight of the "L" car and the first
                    > > railroad locomotive to serve Chicago, the 12-ton
                    > > Pioneer, which pulled trains between Chicago and
                    > > Galena starting in 1848.
                    > > One of the themes of the reconstituted museum will
                    > be
                    > > to show the city as a great economic, cultural and
                    > > social crossroads, said Russell Lewis, the
                    > museum's
                    > > executive vice president and chief historian. The
                    > "L"
                    > > car and Pioneer locomotive will have major roles
                    > in
                    > > telling those stories.
                    > > Visitors will be able to board the "L" car from a
                    > > re-created early train platform, Lewis said. "The
                    > idea
                    > > is to get people imagining that they are getting
                    > on to
                    > > go to the World's Fair.
                    > > "There will be three cast figures sitting on the
                    > > platform having a conversation," he said. "One
                    > will be
                    > > an unnamed ironworker who helped build the fair's
                    > > Ferris wheel, one will be Ida B. Wells, the 19th
                    > > Century civil rights activist, and one will
                    > represent
                    > > 18-year-old Mabel Treseder from Viola, Wis. She
                    > came
                    > > to the fair with her family, and we have her
                    > charming
                    > > commentary on the fair preserved in her letters."
                    > >
                    > > __________________________________________________
                    > > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                    > protection around
                    > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    > thegreatthirdrail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


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                  • Randall Hicks
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 23, 2006
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                      < [snip] how strange is it that SSRT #1, being only slightly older
                      > than CA&E #20 at FRTM is now to be entombed and cared for in a very
                      > pristine environment, while #20 keeps churning out the miles in
                      > museum operation ?

                      Maybe it's because "20" isn't a very interesting number? In order for
                      the big museums to be interested, evidently it has to be numbered
                      something catchier, like "1" or "999".
                    • thegreatthirdrail
                      For what it s worth, my understanding is that the historic 4000 s days may be somewhat numbered. I ve heard from various sources that the cars are in very
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 23, 2006
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                        For what it's worth, my understanding is that the historic 4000's
                        days may be somewhat numbered. I've heard from various sources that
                        the cars are in very rough shape, despite their pretty appearances.
                        After all, they are in the eighty year old range aren't they ? I've
                        been told also that the changes and upgrades to keep them compatible
                        with signalling and what-not has made them something of a bottomless
                        pit cash-wise.

                        Personally, I think it will be interesting to see what the fate of
                        these two cars is, once the CTA pulls the plug on them. Other than
                        the CTA's "historic" designation, they aren't anymore special than
                        any of the other dozens of 4000's that went to museums and scrapyards
                        (at least not that I'm aware of) It'll be interesting to see if
                        someone feels a burning need to "save" this pair as well, especially
                        if they are in as rough of shape as I've been told.

                        As regards the "Centennial" pair of 2000's, I've been told that they
                        had been saved for a private party, who then wasn't able to complete
                        the financing. I've heard different reports that they bought the
                        cars, but couldn't afford transportation off the property, bought the
                        cars but couldn't find a home for them, etc, etc. They're nice cars,
                        the 2000's are a very distinctive Chicago prototype, but they don't
                        really lend themselves to museum operations. Besides the high-level
                        platform requirement, you have the very expensive air-
                        conditioning/sealed windows issue. Frankly, I'm surprised they're
                        still on the property at this late date, you'd think they either be
                        sold and gone, or scrapped.

                        JC
                      • Frank Hicks
                        ... Unfortunately 320 apparently arrived at Mount Pleasant without its third rail beams, so the museum was forced to replace them with CTA third rail beams.
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 23, 2006
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                          > This car even has third rail shoes installed, although
                          > I don't see the sleet scrapers.

                          Unfortunately 320 apparently arrived at Mount Pleasant without its
                          third rail beams, so the museum was forced to replace them with CTA
                          third rail beams. I'm guessing that's also why they're painted red,
                          which was standard CTA practice.

                          Frank Hicks
                        • Joe Stupar
                          When I was there this past summer, I believe there was some sort of a mechanical issue that kept the 2000s from running. I have no idea where they would go. I
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jan 23, 2006
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                            When I was there this past summer, I believe there was
                            some sort of a mechanical issue that kept the 2000s
                            from running. I have no idea where they would go.

                            I have also heard that the 4000s days are numbered.
                            Its not just the mechanical condition, but the
                            dwindling number of qualified operators as well. The
                            rumor I had heard was that one would go to Fox River,
                            and one to IRM. The one thing I have heard is that
                            nobody at Skokie Shops wants the cars there.

                            Joe

                            --- thegreatthirdrail <thegreatthirdrail@...>
                            wrote:

                            > For what it's worth, my understanding is that the
                            > historic 4000's
                            > days may be somewhat numbered. I've heard from
                            > various sources that
                            > the cars are in very rough shape, despite their
                            > pretty appearances.
                            > After all, they are in the eighty year old range
                            > aren't they ? I've
                            > been told also that the changes and upgrades to keep
                            > them compatible
                            > with signalling and what-not has made them something
                            > of a bottomless
                            > pit cash-wise.
                            >
                            > Personally, I think it will be interesting to see
                            > what the fate of
                            > these two cars is, once the CTA pulls the plug on
                            > them. Other than
                            > the CTA's "historic" designation, they aren't
                            > anymore special than
                            > any of the other dozens of 4000's that went to
                            > museums and scrapyards
                            > (at least not that I'm aware of) It'll be
                            > interesting to see if
                            > someone feels a burning need to "save" this pair as
                            > well, especially
                            > if they are in as rough of shape as I've been told.
                            >
                            > As regards the "Centennial" pair of 2000's, I've
                            > been told that they
                            > had been saved for a private party, who then wasn't
                            > able to complete
                            > the financing. I've heard different reports that
                            > they bought the
                            > cars, but couldn't afford transportation off the
                            > property, bought the
                            > cars but couldn't find a home for them, etc, etc.
                            > They're nice cars,
                            > the 2000's are a very distinctive Chicago prototype,
                            > but they don't
                            > really lend themselves to museum operations. Besides
                            > the high-level
                            > platform requirement, you have the very expensive
                            > air-
                            > conditioning/sealed windows issue. Frankly, I'm
                            > surprised they're
                            > still on the property at this late date, you'd think
                            > they either be
                            > sold and gone, or scrapped.
                            >
                            > JC
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            > thegreatthirdrail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


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                          • thegreatthirdrail
                            ... Not to pour water on anyone s plans, but would IRM want/need another 4000 ? As we all know it s often a question of storage space, track costs, etc, before
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jan 24, 2006
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                              > I have also heard that the 4000s days are numbered.
                              > Its not just the mechanical condition, but the
                              > dwindling number of qualified operators as well. The
                              > rumor I had heard was that one would go to Fox River,
                              > and one to IRM. The one thing I have heard is that
                              > nobody at Skokie Shops wants the cars there.
                              >
                              > Joe

                              Not to pour water on anyone's plans, but would IRM want/need another
                              4000 ? As we all know it's often a question of storage space, track
                              costs, etc, before you even get to the question of attaining a given
                              piece of equipment.

                              As far as FRTM, one would have to wonder where they'd even put it.
                              Which is again, not meant to say that it couldn't, wouldn't, or
                              shouldn't be done.
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