Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: E&B and CA&DK
- I can only go by what is in CERA #99 which covered the Illinois interurbans other than ththe e Chicago big three and IT. One of the St.Louis cars (no number given in the publication) was totalled onthe Aurora and DeKalb Railroad where it was on lease. The debt was repaid by giving the E&B their car 24 where it spent rest of its life. Again, the bulletin has 208 and 209 which were built by Niles and it was "thought" they originated from the Youngstown and Ohio Railway. I can do a little research later on with the CERA annual on Northern Ohio where there more than likely was a section on that railroad to see if there is any additional record on those two cars to substantiate the 1955 CERA Bulletin.
From: thegreatthirdrail <thegreatthirdrail@...>
Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 4:54:43 PM
Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: E&B and CA&DK
To the best of my knowledge, cars for both the E&B and the CA&D were all built new for each line. I doubt there was any effort made to make them compatible for elevated operations, while both lines maintained a good working relationship with the CA&E (including heavy repairs at Wheaton), there would be almost no reason to extend that relationship in a shared trackage rights scenario into downtown Chicago. Also consider it's not only the size/width of the car bodies, it also includes things like the trucks, carbody heights, electrical/motor compatibility etc. And of course as we all know, that stub end terminal at Wells Street became quite the bottleneck as the AE&C/CA&E grew more sucessful over the years.
At least one of the CA&D freight motors went to the E&B (or vice versus ? Can't recall exactly, it's been a long week !) as a result of a car heavily damaged while being "borrowed". Details are in the "The Dairy Route" book. Something makes me think it was E&B 205 acquired from the CA&D
IRM did acquire storm window sashes from what is beleived to have been E&B 208 last year. One single, and 12 doubles, and parts of another which match to the window configurations of the 208. The Hicks Car Works blog had photos and details in a July 31,2010 post. AS noted in Randy and Frank's posts, the 208 had the "phone booth" motorman's cab extension.
Somewhere I have on file a series of notes from Julie Johnson outlining several bodies she knew of from various Fox Valley interurban lines that were "still out there". Most built into existing structures and all but lost, but techinically still in existence. I beleive all the E&B cars are indeed completely gone. The one that still peaks my interest is an AE&FRE carbody supposedly built into a home in NE Elgin, not far off from Rt 25 and Congdon (just coincidentally within a mile or so of home !)
- It is admirable what was created by CERA when so little information had been gathered. It may be true that some conjecture was reported as fact in early publications, however perhaps more often than not, that conjecture was true. Perhaps indeed the E&B had several cars equipped with third rail shoes.
The E&B was indeed built during interurban fever, just as massive 5000 square foot homes with 30 foot ceilings were built in the last 10 years (even though some knew cheap energy was not going to last). I think Arnold fully believed in efficient public transportation, and it was exciting when lots of private capital could be raised to do it. I saw his vast plans for underground streetcar systems in Chicago, and it might have happened if not for some market crashes (controlled falls?) and competitive positioning by the automobile. It is not surprising to me that he was thinking of building fantastic interurban lines as well.
So perhaps what I am suggesting is not the conventional understanding of the E&B and the CA&E. If it can be proved otherwise that would be great to know. However, we do know at least one E&B car retained its third rail shoes. I found this online about box motor 103:
"The prototype, shown below from the classic Carl Gustafson work "The Dairy Route", shows the basic car body. It's a simple box motor design, really a motorized box car for LCL freight movements, and use as a locomotive for 2-3 car freights. A unique feature of these cars is the combination of overhead trolley poles, as well as 3rd rail shoes, as these cars operated on the Aurora Elgin & Chicago/Chicago Aurora & Elgin who not only interchanged traffic with the line, but also performed heavy maintenace work for them at their Wheaton shop facilities."