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Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform

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  • Greg Runions
    I looked up transcorp on the net and they want close to $500 for a full uniform. I would think that some place in Chicago that would have conductors uniform
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 1, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      I looked up transcorp on the net and they want close to $500 for a full uniform. I would think that some place in Chicago that would have conductors uniform somewhere, I know the Metra will not sell to the public. And I don't think Amtrak will not sell to the public.

      --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...> wrote:

      From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
      Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform
      To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 6:28 PM

       
      Let me know what you find out as I'm starting a uniform project for a railroad client of mine.
      Mitch


      ------ Original Message ------
      Received: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:59:26 AM EDT
      From: Scott Greig <sbgreig_m1@...>
      To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform


       
      Thanks, I'll give it a try!

      --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...> wrote:

      > From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
      > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform
      > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 10:51 AM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > That's something you should still be able to
      > purchase at VCG, on Irving Park as it's an item used for
      > bellman's caps.
      >
      > The spec is 2 rows of gold (yellow) lace on a 1
      > 3/4" black grosgrain cap band. I'm having some made
      > up in England right now with genuine gold lace as was done
      > in the early part of the last century.
      >
      > Please advise what you find out and if need be
      > I'll give further direction.
      >
      > Mitch
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------ Original Message ------
      >
      > Received: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:42:55 AM EDT
      >
      > From: Scott Greig
      > <sbgreig_m1@...>
      >
      > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor
      > uniform
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > #yiv1168474197
      >
      >  
      >
      > Does anybody still make the blue or black
      > "tape" with the gold or yellow border stripes for
      > the hat? I have a couple of vintage interurban badges (Union
      > Traction and Interstate) that I would love to display on
      > "proper" hats, but I can't find the wraparound
      > tape for an older hat, and all the modern hats I've seen
      > just have the yellow stripes "printed" on them.
      >
      >
      >
      > --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Mitchell Markovitz
      > <art.mark@...>
      > wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > > From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
      >
      > > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail]
      > conductor uniform
      >
      > > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > > Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011,
      > 10:18 AM
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
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      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Here's the news in this. Years
      > ago in what I
      >
      > > refer to as "The Standard
      > Era," there were many
      >
      > > resources for uniforms. Railroadmen
      > had several choices. The
      >
      > > Fair Store and later Montgomery
      > Wards sold off the rack
      >
      > > uniforms made by Hersch-Weintraub of
      > Philadelphia, and Maier
      >
      > > Lavity of Chicago. If a trainman so
      > desired he could have
      >
      > > his uniform made to measure at
      > either Maier Lavity, Marcus
      >
      > > Rueben, or at Carlson's.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Until 1948 all uniforms were made of
      > the same
      >
      > > midnight blue, Wanscuck serge with
      > coats having four buttons
      >
      > > on the front. This was the style
      > worn by all 3 of the Insull
      >
      > > lines. This afforded a cost point as
      > there was a great
      >
      > > standardization of uniform items. In
      > '48 the Santa Fe
      >
      > > decided to modernize their uniforms
      > that included adopting
      >
      > > the Military officer's cap (bus
      > driver-pilot) and going
      >
      > > to a 3 button coat. The GM&O
      > adopted a cross between the
      >
      > > B&O (pocket treatment) and
      > GM&N (peaked lapels.)
      >
      > > Next in '56 the Burlington and
      > the Rock Island made some
      >
      > > changes. They each adopted a lighter
      > blue cloth. Both the
      >
      > > Burlington and the Rock went to 3
      > button coats. The
      >
      > > Burlington stayed with a straight
      > cap, and the Rock went to
      >
      > > what they referred to in their specs
      > as a "Yachting
      >
      > > Style" cap. The Burlington
      > adopted a deep red neck tie,
      >
      > > the Rock wasn't strict on that
      > and I saw black, blue,
      >
      > > and light blue grey neck ties on
      > trainmen. The Great
      >
      > > Northern then followed with the use
      > of French Blue cloth and
      >
      > > a bus cap.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Then in 1969 came the uniform
      > tragedy of the
      >
      > > C&NW. It started as a joke
      > amongst the train crew of the
      >
      > > morning "Club Run," and a
      > company executive. This
      >
      > > was the green outfit with the 2
      > button coat in what Ru
      >
      > > Carlson referred to as
      > "Continental Styled." This
      >
      > > included a black stripe down the
      > side seams of the trousers,
      >
      > > and on the coat cuffs.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > In 1971 the IC received their
      > bi-levels and had to
      >
      > > follow suit with new suits. So they
      > got green uniforms with
      >
      > > black plastic buttons and no badges
      > with orange embroidery.
      >
      > > One had to love the early '70s
      > (I refer to the era as
      >
      > > "Early Brady Bunch") to
      > appreciate this.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Then, almost 40 years ago came
      > Amtrak. Within their
      >
      > > first year a Nixon era contributor,
      > Angelica Career Fashions
      >
      > > of St. Louis came along and took all
      > the uniform work of
      >
      > > what remained of main line train
      > crews. This left only
      >
      > > commuter crews wearing these many
      > varied uniforms. This
      >
      > > became costly for the railroads to
      > maintain as in the past
      >
      > > trainmen purchased their own
      > uniforms every several years
      >
      > > and by the '70s the railroads
      > were purchasing as many as
      >
      > > 2 uniforms a year for each trainman.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Then came Metra. Yours truly was
      > called upon to
      >
      > > design their uniform. Which I did.
      > The economy of this
      >
      > > decision resulted in 1 set of specs
      > for several hundred
      >
      > > uniforms a years rather than several
      > specs for maybe 100
      >
      > > suits per year. I chose US Customs
      > blue for the cloth as it
      >
      > > looked blue under fluorescent
      > lighting rather than black as
      >
      > > the midnight blue did. I trimmed the
      > cap with 2 rows of
      >
      > > yellow stripes and a plain badge
      > same as the
      >
      > > C&NW,CGW,South Shore, North
      > Shore, and CA&E did. I
      >
      > > refer to this as "Chicago
      > Trim." (The IC,
      >
      > > GM&O, and Wabash had 1 stripe at
      > the center of the cap,
      >
      > > and a cord at the visor which I
      > refer to as "Harriman
      >
      > > Trim," as many of those lines
      > used similar cap
      >
      > > treatment.)
      >
      > >
      >
      > > The last line to use made to measure
      > traditional
      >
      > > uniforms was the South Shore Line.
      > During 2003 or so,
      >
      > > immersed in the pressure of budget
      > cutting the line opted to
      >
      > > go to a casual look, which I
      > won't comment on. The last
      >
      > > company to make the uniforms was
      > Carlson VCG on Irving Park
      >
      > > Road. I believe they will still make
      > a custom vest but it
      >
      > > will be costly. I have no idea where
      > the Metra uniforms come
      >
      > > from but over time they changed from
      > a standard 6 button
      >
      > > vest to a straight bottomed 5 button
      > vest that I don't
      >
      > > think anyone would be happy with in
      > a historical
      >
      > > situation.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Elbeco makes a nice wool-Dacron
      > blend standard city
      >
      > > fire department dress trouser that
      > can be had with an
      >
      > > optional "drop watch
      > pocket." A trip to Kale's
      >
      > > Uniform on Roosevelt Road may prove
      > productive.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Remember, in railroad days if it was
      > too hot to
      >
      > > wear a coat, it was too hot to
      > wear a vest.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Feel free to ask more.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Mitch
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > ------ Original Message ------
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Received: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:48:26
      > AM EDT
      >
      > >
      >
      > > From: "foxrivermotorman"
      >
      > > <foxrivermotorman@...>
      >
      > >
      >
      > > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail]
      > conductor
      >
      > > uniform
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > #yiv1857937546
      >
      > >
      >
      > >  
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Any one know of any where in the
      > Chicago Land
      >
      > > area were I can get a conducots
      > uniform. I just need a vest
      >
      > > and some pants. I call Chicago
      > Uniform, Carlsons and JG
      >
      > > Uniform and no luck. Thnaks
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
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    • Mitchell Markovitz
      Transquip is a good outfit and the fellow that operates it is good. However the uniform they sell is not really a standard version of the classic uniform.
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 1, 2011
      • 0 Attachment

        Transquip is a good outfit and the fellow that operates it is good. However the uniform they sell is not really a standard version of the classic uniform. Amtrak's uniform is not really great either. The problem is that at some point made to measure uniforms became too costly for the operating authorities to purchase. The level of care given garments by employees as well led to the resort to "common wear." So uniform makers in the made to measure business folded leaving us in the position we're in now.

        If someone went to a manufacturer and said they needed 100 vests a year, you'd have them.

        Mitch


        ------ Original Message ------
        Received: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 07:04:47 AM EDT
        From: Greg Runions <foxrivermotorman@...>
        To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform


         

        I looked up transcorp on the net and they want close to $500 for a full uniform. I would think that some place in Chicago that would have conductors uniform somewhere, I know the Metra will not sell to the public. And I don't think Amtrak will not sell to the public.

        --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...> wrote:

        From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
        Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform
        To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 6:28 PM

         
        Let me know what you find out as I'm starting a uniform project for a railroad client of mine.
        Mitch


        ------ Original Message ------
        Received: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:59:26 AM EDT
        From: Scott Greig <sbgreig_m1@...>
        To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform


         
        Thanks, I'll give it a try!

        --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...> wrote:

        > From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
        > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform
        > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 10:51 AM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > That's something you should still be able to
        > purchase at VCG, on Irving Park as it's an item used for
        > bellman's caps.
        >
        > The spec is 2 rows of gold (yellow) lace on a 1
        > 3/4" black grosgrain cap band. I'm having some made
        > up in England right now with genuine gold lace as was done
        > in the early part of the last century.
        >
        > Please advise what you find out and if need be
        > I'll give further direction.
        >
        > Mitch
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------ Original Message ------
        >
        > Received: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:42:55 AM EDT
        >
        > From: Scott Greig
        > <sbgreig_m1@...>
        >
        > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor
        > uniform
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > #yiv1168474197
        >
        >  
        >
        > Does anybody still make the blue or black
        > "tape" with the gold or yellow border stripes for
        > the hat? I have a couple of vintage interurban badges (Union
        > Traction and Interstate) that I would love to display on
        > "proper" hats, but I can't find the wraparound
        > tape for an older hat, and all the modern hats I've seen
        > just have the yellow stripes "printed" on them.
        >
        >
        >
        > --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Mitchell Markovitz
        > <art.mark@...>
        > wrote:
        > < BR>>
        >
        > > From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
        >
        > > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail]
        > conductor uniform
        >
        > > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > > Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011,
        > 10:18 AM
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Here's the news in this. Years
        > ago in what I
        >
        > > refer to as "The Standard
        > Era," there were many
        >
        > > resources for uniforms. Railroadmen
        > had several choices. The
        >
        > > Fair Store and later Montgomery
        > Wards sold off the rack
        >
        > > uniforms made by Hersch-Weintraub of
        > Philadelphia, and Maier
        >
        > > Lavity of Chicago. If a trainman so
        > desired he could have
        >
        > > his uniform made to measure at
        > either Maier Lavity, Marcus
        >
        > > Rueben, or at Carlson's.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Until 1948 all uniforms were made of
        > the same
        >
        > > midnight blue, Wanscuck serge with
        > coats having four buttons
        >
        > > on the front. This was the style
        > worn by all 3 of the Insull
        >
        > > lines. This afforded a cost point as
        > there was a great
        >
        > > standardization of uniform items. In
        > '48 the Santa Fe
        >
        > > decided to modernize their uniforms
        > that included adopting
        >
        > > the Military officer's cap (bus
        > driver-pilot) and going
        >
        > > to a 3 button coat. The GM&O
        > adopted a cross between the
        >
        > > B&O (pocket treatment) and
        > GM&N (peaked lapels.)
        >
        > > Next in '56 the Burlington and
        > the Rock Island made some
        >
        > > changes. They each adopted a lighter
        > blue cloth. Both the
        >
        > > Burlington and the Rock went to 3
        > button coats. The
        >
        > > Burlington stayed with a straight
        > cap, and the Rock went to
        >
        > > what they referred to in their specs
        > as a "Yachting
        >
        > > Style" cap. The Burlington
        > adopted a deep red neck tie,
        >
        > > the Rock wasn't strict on that
        > and I saw black, blue,
        >
        > > and light blue grey neck ties on
        > trainmen. The Great
        >
        > > Northern then followed with the use
        > of French Blue cloth and
        >
        > > a bus cap.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Then in 1969 came the uniform
        > tragedy of the
        >
        > > C&NW. It started as a joke
        > amongst the train crew of the
        >
        > > morning "Club Run," and a
        > company executive. This
        >
        > > was the green outfit with the 2
        > button coat in what Ru
        >
        > > Carlson referred to as
        > "Continental Styled." This
        >
        > > included a black stripe down the
        > side seams of the trousers,
        >
        > > and on the coat cuffs.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > In 1971 the IC received their
        > bi-levels and had to
        >
        > > follow suit with new suits. So they
        > got green uniforms with
        >
        > > black plastic buttons and no badges
        > with orange embroidery.
        >
        > > One had to love the early '70s
        > (I refer to the era as
        >
        > > "Early Brady Bunch") to
        > appreciate this.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Then, almost 40 years ago came
        > Amtrak. Within their
        >
        > > first year a Nixon era contributor,
        > Angelica Career Fashions
        >
        > > of St. Louis came along and took all
        > the uniform work of
        >
        > > what remained of main line train
        > crews. This left only
        >
        > > commuter crews wearing these many
        > varied uniforms. This
        >
        > > became costly for the railroads to
        > maintain as in the past
        >
        > > trainmen purchased their own
        > uniforms every several years
        >
        > > and by the '70s the railroads
        > were purchasing as many as
        >
        > > 2 uniforms a year for each trainman.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Then came Metra. Yours truly was
        > called upon to
        >
        > > design their uniform. Which I did.
        > The economy of this
        >
        > > decision resulted in 1 set of specs
        > for several hundred
        >
        > > uniforms a years rather than several
        > specs for maybe 100
        >
        > > suits per year. I chose US Customs
        > blue for the cloth as it
        >
        > > looked blue under fluorescent
        > lighting rather than black as
        >
        > > the midnight blue did. I trimmed the
        > cap with 2 rows of
        >
        > > yellow stripes and a plain badge
        > same as the
        >
        > > C&NW,CGW,South Shore, North
        > Shore, and CA&E did. I
        >
        > > refer to this as "Chicago
        > Trim." (The IC,
        >
        > > GM&O, and Wabash had 1 stripe at
        > the center of the cap,
        >
        > > and a cord at the visor which I
        > refer to as "Harriman
        >
        > > Trim," as many of those lines
        > used similar cap
        >
        > > treatment.)
        >
        > >
        >
        > > The last line to use made to measure
        > traditional
        >
        > > uniforms was the South Shore Line.
        > During 2003 or so,
        >
        > > immersed in the pressure of budget
        > cutting the line opted to
        >
        > > go to a casual look, which I
        > won't comment on. The last
        >
        > > company to make the uniforms was
        > Carlson VCG on Irving Park
        >
        > > Road. I believe they will still make
        > a custom vest but it
        >
        > > will be costly. I have no idea where
        > the Metra uniforms come
        >
        > > from but over time they changed from
        > a standard 6 button
        >
        > > vest to a straight bottomed 5 button
        > vest that I don't
        >
        > > think anyone would be happy with in
        > a historical
        >
        > > situation.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Elbeco makes a nice wool-Dacron
        > blend standard city
        >
        > > fire department dress trouser that
        > can be had with an
        >
        > > optional "drop watch
        > pocket." A trip to Kale's
        >
        > > Uniform on Roosevelt Road may prove
        > productive.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Remember, in railroad days if it was
        > too hot to
        >
        > > wear a coat, it was too hot to
        > wear a vest.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Feel free to ask more.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Mitch
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > ------ Original Message ------
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Received: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:48:26
        > AM EDT
        >
        > >
        >
        > > From: "foxrivermotorman"
        >
        > > <foxrivermotorman@...>
        >
        > >
        >
        > > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail]
        > conductor
        >
        > > uniform
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > #yiv1857937546
        >
        > >
        >
        > >  
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Any one know of any where in the
        > Chicago Land
        >
        > > area were I can get a conducots
        > uniform. I just need a vest
        >
        > > and some pants. I call Chicago
        > Uniform, Carlsons and JG
        >
        > > Uniform and no luck. Thnaks
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
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        > >
        >
        > >
        >
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        >




      • Raymond Bellock
        if you went to transquip with an order of 100 (or probably something less than that) he might be able to special order with the modifications
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 1, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          if you went to transquip with an order of 100 (or probably something less than that)  he might be able to special order with the modifications required/desired.
           

          To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
          From: art.mark@...
          Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:41:50 -0400
          Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform

           

          Transquip is a good outfit and the fellow that operates it is good. However the uniform they sell is not really a standard version of the classic uniform. Amtrak's uniform is not really great either. The problem is that at some point made to measure uniforms became too costly for the operating authorities to purchase. The level of care given garments by employees as well led to the resort to "common wear." So uniform makers in the made to measure business folded leaving us in the position we're in now.
          If someone went to a manufacturer and said they needed 100 vests a year, you'd have them.
          Mitch


          ------ Original Message ------
          Received: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 07:04:47 AM EDT
          From: Greg Runions <foxrivermotorman@...>
          To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform



           
          I looked up transcorp on the net and they want close to $500 for a full uniform. I would think that some place in Chicago that would have conductors uniform somewhere, I know the Metra will not sell to the public. And I don't think Amtrak will not sell to the public.

          --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...> wrote:

          From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
          Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform
          To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 6:28 PM

           
          Let me know what you find out as I'm starting a uniform project for a railroad client of mine.
          Mitch


          ------ Original Message ------
          Received: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:59:26 AM EDT
          From: Scott Greig <sbgreig_m1@...>
          To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform


           
          Thanks, I'll give it a try!

          --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...> wrote:

          > From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
          > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform
          > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 10:51 AM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > That's something you should still be able to
          > purchase at VCG, on Irving Park as it's an item used for
          > bellman's caps.
          >
          > The spec is 2 rows of gold (yellow) lace on a 1
          > 3/4" black grosgrain cap band. I'm having some made
          > up in England right now with genuine gold lace as was done
          > in the early part of the last century.
          >
          > Please advise what you find out and if need be
          > I'll give further direction.
          >
          > Mitch
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------ Original Message ------
          >
          > Received: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:42:55 AM EDT
          >
          > From: Scott Greig
          > <sbgreig_m1@...>
          >
          > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor
          > uniform
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > #yiv1168474197
          >
          >  
          >
          > Does anybody still make the blue or black
          > "tape" with the gold or yellow border stripes for
          > the hat? I have a couple of vintage interurban badges (Union
          > Traction and Interstate) that I would love to display on
          > "proper" hats, but I can't find the wraparound
          > tape for an older hat, and all the modern hats I've seen
          > just have the yellow stripes "printed" on them.
          >
          >
          >
          > --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Mitchell Markovitz
          > <art.mark@...>
          > wrote:
          > < BR>>
          >
          > > From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
          >
          > > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail]
          > conductor uniform
          >
          > > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > > Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011,
          > 10:18 AM
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Here's the news in this. Years
          > ago in what I
          >
          > > refer to as "The Standard
          > Era," there were many
          >
          > > resources for uniforms. Railroadmen
          > had several choices. The
          >
          > > Fair Store and later Montgomery
          > Wards sold off the rack
          >
          > > uniforms made by Hersch-Weintraub of
          > Philadelphia, and Maier
          >
          > > Lavity of Chicago. If a trainman so
          > desired he could have
          >
          > > his uniform made to measure at
          > either Maier Lavity, Marcus
          >
          > > Rueben, or at Carlson's.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Until 1948 all uniforms were made of
          > the same
          >
          > > midnight blue, Wanscuck serge with
          > coats having four buttons
          >
          > > on the front. This was the style
          > worn by all 3 of the Insull
          >
          > > lines. This afforded a cost point as
          > there was a great
          >
          > > standardization of uniform items. In
          > '48 the Santa Fe
          >
          > > decided to modernize their uniforms
          > that included adopting
          >
          > > the Military officer's cap (bus
          > driver-pilot) and going
          >
          > > to a 3 button coat. The GM&O
          > adopted a cross between the
          >
          > > B&O (pocket treatment) and
          > GM&N (peaked lapels.)
          >
          > > Next in '56 the Burlington and
          > the Rock Island made some
          >
          > > changes. They each adopted a lighter
          > blue cloth. Both the
          >
          > > Burlington and the Rock went to 3
          > button coats. The
          >
          > > Burlington stayed with a straight
          > cap, and the Rock went to
          >
          > > what they referred to in their specs
          > as a "Yachting
          >
          > > Style" cap. The Burlington
          > adopted a deep red neck tie,
          >
          > > the Rock wasn't strict on that
          > and I saw black, blue,
          >
          > > and light blue grey neck ties on
          > trainmen. The Great
          >
          > > Northern then followed with the use
          > of French Blue cloth and
          >
          > > a bus cap.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Then in 1969 came the uniform
          > tragedy of the
          >
          > > C&NW. It started as a joke
          > amongst the train crew of the
          >
          > > morning "Club Run," and a
          > company executive. This
          >
          > > was the green outfit with the 2
          > button coat in what Ru
          >
          > > Carlson referred to as
          > "Continental Styled." This
          >
          > > included a black stripe down the
          > side seams of the trousers,
          >
          > > and on the coat cuffs.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > In 1971 the IC received their
          > bi-levels and had to
          >
          > > follow suit with new suits. So they
          > got green uniforms with
          >
          > > black plastic buttons and no badges
          > with orange embroidery.
          >
          > > One had to love the early '70s
          > (I refer to the era as
          >
          > > "Early Brady Bunch") to
          > appreciate this.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Then, almost 40 years ago came
          > Amtrak. Within their
          >
          > > first year a Nixon era contributor,
          > Angelica Career Fashions
          >
          > > of St. Louis came along and took all
          > the uniform work of
          >
          > > what remained of main line train
          > crews. This left only
          >
          > > commuter crews wearing these many
          > varied uniforms. This
          >
          > > became costly for the railroads to
          > maintain as in the past
          >
          > > trainmen purchased their own
          > uniforms every several years
          >
          > > and by the '70s the railroads
          > were purchasing as many as
          >
          > > 2 uniforms a year for each trainman.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Then came Metra. Yours truly was
          > called upon to
          >
          > > design their uniform. Which I did.
          > The economy of this
          >
          > > decision resulted in 1 set of specs
          > for several hundred
          >
          > > uniforms a years rather than several
          > specs for maybe 100
          >
          > > suits per year. I chose US Customs
          > blue for the cloth as it
          >
          > > looked blue under fluorescent
          > lighting rather than black as
          >
          > > the midnight blue did. I trimmed the
          > cap with 2 rows of
          >
          > > yellow stripes and a plain badge
          > same as the
          >
          > > C&NW,CGW,South Shore, North
          > Shore, and CA&E did. I
          >
          > > refer to this as "Chicago
          > Trim." (The IC,
          >
          > > GM&O, and Wabash had 1 stripe at
          > the center of the cap,
          >
          > > and a cord at the visor which I
          > refer to as "Harriman
          >
          > > Trim," as many of those lines
          > used similar cap
          >
          > > treatment.)
          >
          > >
          >
          > > The last line to use made to measure
          > traditional
          >
          > > uniforms was the South Shore Line.
          > During 2003 or so,
          >
          > > immersed in the pressure of budget
          > cutting the line opted to
          >
          > > go to a casual look, which I
          > won't comment on. The last
          >
          > > company to make the uniforms was
          > Carlson VCG on Irving Park
          >
          > > Road. I believe they will still make
          > a custom vest but it
          >
          > > will be costly. I have no idea where
          > the Metra uniforms come
          >
          > > from but over time they changed from
          > a standard 6 button
          >
          > > vest to a straight bottomed 5 button
          > vest that I don't
          >
          > > think anyone would be happy with in
          > a historical
          >
          > > situation.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Elbeco makes a nice wool-Dacron
          > blend standard city
          >
          > > fire department dress trouser that
          > can be had with an
          >
          > > optional "drop watch
          > pocket." A trip to Kale's
          >
          > > Uniform on Roosevelt Road may prove
          > productive.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Remember, in railroad days if it was
          > too hot to
          >
          > > wear a coat, it was too hot to
          > wear a vest.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Feel free to ask more.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Mitch
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > ------ Original Message ------
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Received: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:48:26
          > AM EDT
          >
          > >
          >
          > > From: "foxrivermotorman"
          >
          > > <foxrivermotorman@...>
          >
          > >
          >
          > > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail]
          > conductor
          >
          > > uniform
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > #yiv1857937546
          >
          > >
          >
          > >  
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Any one know of any where in the
          > Chicago Land
          >
          > > area were I can get a conducots
          > uniform. I just need a vest
          >
          > > and some pants. I call Chicago
          > Uniform, Carlsons and JG
          >
          > > Uniform and no luck. Thnaks
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >






        • Greg Runions
          I don t know is where IRM got there uniforms from. I posted on there yahoo group and some one told me to try Chicago Uniform and I looked them up and it seems
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 1, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            I don't know is where IRM got there uniforms from. I posted on there yahoo group and some one told me to try Chicago Uniform and I looked them up and it seems they only do police uniforms. Some one has to have them in Chicago some where.

            --- On Fri, 4/1/11, Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...> wrote:

            From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
            Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform
            To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 1:41 PM

             
            Transquip is a good outfit and the fellow that operates it is good. However the uniform they sell is not really a standard version of the classic uniform. Amtrak's uniform is not really great either. The problem is that at some point made to measure uniforms became too costly for the operating authorities to purchase. The level of care given garments by employees as well led to the resort to "common wear." So uniform makers in the made to measure business folded leaving us in the position we're in now.
            If someone went to a manufacturer and said they needed 100 vests a year, you'd have them.
            Mitch


            ------ Original Message ------
            Received: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 07:04:47 AM EDT
            From: Greg Runions <foxrivermotorman@...>
            To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform


             
            I looked up transcorp on the net and they want close to $500 for a full uniform. I would think that some place in Chicago that would have conductors uniform somewhere, I know the Metra will not sell to the public. And I don't think Amtrak will not sell to the public.

            --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...> wrote:

            From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
            Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform
            To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 6:28 PM

             
            Let me know what you find out as I'm starting a uniform project for a railroad client of mine.
            Mitch


            ------ Original Message ------
            Received: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:59:26 AM EDT
            From: Scott Greig <sbgreig_m1@...>
            To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform


             
            Thanks, I'll give it a try!

            --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...> wrote:

            > From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
            > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform
            > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 10:51 AM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > That's something you should still be able to
            > purchase at VCG, on Irving Park as it's an item used for
            > bellman's caps.
            >
            > The spec is 2 rows of gold (yellow) lace on a 1
            > 3/4" black grosgrain cap band. I'm having some made
            > up in England right now with genuine gold lace as was done
            > in the early part of the last century.
            >
            > Please advise what you find out and if need be
            > I'll give further direction.
            >
            > Mitch
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------ Original Message ------
            >
            > Received: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:42:55 AM EDT
            >
            > From: Scott Greig
            > <sbgreig_m1@...>
            >
            > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor
            > uniform
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > #yiv1168474197
            >
            >  
            >
            > Does anybody still make the blue or black
            > "tape" with the gold or yellow border stripes for
            > the hat? I have a couple of vintage interurban badges (Union
            > Traction and Interstate) that I would love to display on
            > "proper" hats, but I can't find the wraparound
            > tape for an older hat, and all the modern hats I've seen
            > just have the yellow stripes "printed" on them.
            >
            >
            >
            > --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Mitchell Markovitz
            > <art.mark@...>
            > wrote:
            > < BR>>
            >
            > > From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
            >
            > > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail]
            > conductor uniform
            >
            > > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > > Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011,
            > 10:18 AM
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Here's the news in this. Years
            > ago in what I
            >
            > > refer to as "The Standard
            > Era," there were many
            >
            > > resources for uniforms. Railroadmen
            > had several choices. The
            >
            > > Fair Store and later Montgomery
            > Wards sold off the rack
            >
            > > uniforms made by Hersch-Weintraub of
            > Philadelphia, and Maier
            >
            > > Lavity of Chicago. If a trainman so
            > desired he could have
            >
            > > his uniform made to measure at
            > either Maier Lavity, Marcus
            >
            > > Rueben, or at Carlson's.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Until 1948 all uniforms were made of
            > the same
            >
            > > midnight blue, Wanscuck serge with
            > coats having four buttons
            >
            > > on the front. This was the style
            > worn by all 3 of the Insull
            >
            > > lines. This afforded a cost point as
            > there was a great
            >
            > > standardization of uniform items. In
            > '48 the Santa Fe
            >
            > > decided to modernize their uniforms
            > that included adopting
            >
            > > the Military officer's cap (bus
            > driver-pilot) and going
            >
            > > to a 3 button coat. The GM&O
            > adopted a cross between the
            >
            > > B&O (pocket treatment) and
            > GM&N (peaked lapels.)
            >
            > > Next in '56 the Burlington and
            > the Rock Island made some
            >
            > > changes. They each adopted a lighter
            > blue cloth. Both the
            >
            > > Burlington and the Rock went to 3
            > button coats. The
            >
            > > Burlington stayed with a straight
            > cap, and the Rock went to
            >
            > > what they referred to in their specs
            > as a "Yachting
            >
            > > Style" cap. The Burlington
            > adopted a deep red neck tie,
            >
            > > the Rock wasn't strict on that
            > and I saw black, blue,
            >
            > > and light blue grey neck ties on
            > trainmen. The Great
            >
            > > Northern then followed with the use
            > of French Blue cloth and
            >
            > > a bus cap.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Then in 1969 came the uniform
            > tragedy of the
            >
            > > C&NW. It started as a joke
            > amongst the train crew of the
            >
            > > morning "Club Run," and a
            > company executive. This
            >
            > > was the green outfit with the 2
            > button coat in what Ru
            >
            > > Carlson referred to as
            > "Continental Styled." This
            >
            > > included a black stripe down the
            > side seams of the trousers,
            >
            > > and on the coat cuffs.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > In 1971 the IC received their
            > bi-levels and had to
            >
            > > follow suit with new suits. So they
            > got green uniforms with
            >
            > > black plastic buttons and no badges
            > with orange embroidery.
            >
            > > One had to love the early '70s
            > (I refer to the era as
            >
            > > "Early Brady Bunch") to
            > appreciate this.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Then, almost 40 years ago came
            > Amtrak. Within their
            >
            > > first year a Nixon era contributor,
            > Angelica Career Fashions
            >
            > > of St. Louis came along and took all
            > the uniform work of
            >
            > > what remained of main line train
            > crews. This left only
            >
            > > commuter crews wearing these many
            > varied uniforms. This
            >
            > > became costly for the railroads to
            > maintain as in the past
            >
            > > trainmen purchased their own
            > uniforms every several years
            >
            > > and by the '70s the railroads
            > were purchasing as many as
            >
            > > 2 uniforms a year for each trainman.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Then came Metra. Yours truly was
            > called upon to
            >
            > > design their uniform. Which I did.
            > The economy of this
            >
            > > decision resulted in 1 set of specs
            > for several hundred
            >
            > > uniforms a years rather than several
            > specs for maybe 100
            >
            > > suits per year. I chose US Customs
            > blue for the cloth as it
            >
            > > looked blue under fluorescent
            > lighting rather than black as
            >
            > > the midnight blue did. I trimmed the
            > cap with 2 rows of
            >
            > > yellow stripes and a plain badge
            > same as the
            >
            > > C&NW,CGW,South Shore, North
            > Shore, and CA&E did. I
            >
            > > refer to this as "Chicago
            > Trim." (The IC,
            >
            > > GM&O, and Wabash had 1 stripe at
            > the center of the cap,
            >
            > > and a cord at the visor which I
            > refer to as "Harriman
            >
            > > Trim," as many of those lines
            > used similar cap
            >
            > > treatment.)
            >
            > >
            >
            > > The last line to use made to measure
            > traditional
            >
            > > uniforms was the South Shore Line.
            > During 2003 or so,
            >
            > > immersed in the pressure of budget
            > cutting the line opted to
            >
            > > go to a casual look, which I
            > won't comment on. The last
            >
            > > company to make the uniforms was
            > Carlson VCG on Irving Park
            >
            > > Road. I believe they will still make
            > a custom vest but it
            >
            > > will be costly. I have no idea where
            > the Metra uniforms come
            >
            > > from but over time they changed from
            > a standard 6 button
            >
            > > vest to a straight bottomed 5 button
            > vest that I don't
            >
            > > think anyone would be happy with in
            > a historical
            >
            > > situation.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Elbeco makes a nice wool-Dacron
            > blend standard city
            >
            > > fire department dress trouser that
            > can be had with an
            >
            > > optional "drop watch
            > pocket." A trip to Kale's
            >
            > > Uniform on Roosevelt Road may prove
            > productive.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Remember, in railroad days if it was
            > too hot to
            >
            > > wear a coat, it was too hot to
            > wear a vest.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Feel free to ask more.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Mitch
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > ------ Original Message ------
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Received: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:48:26
            > AM EDT
            >
            > >
            >
            > > From: "foxrivermotorman"
            >
            > > <foxrivermotorman@...>
            >
            > >
            >
            > > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail]
            > conductor
            >
            > > uniform
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > #yiv1857937546
            >
            > >
            >
            > >  
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Any one know of any where in the
            > Chicago Land
            >
            > > area were I can get a conducots
            > uniform. I just need a vest
            >
            > > and some pants. I call Chicago
            > Uniform, Carlsons and JG
            >
            > > Uniform and no luck. Thnaks
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
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          • rhicks308
            ... IRM has a stock of old Metra and maybe Amtrak uniforms which are available for operating crews. I m sure they don t meet Mitch s exacting standards but
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 1, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com, Greg Runions <foxrivermotorman@...> wrote:
              >
              > I don't know is where IRM got there uniforms from. I posted on there yahoo group and some one told me to try Chicago Uniform and I looked them up and it seems they only do police uniforms. Some one has to have them in Chicago some where.

              IRM has a stock of old Metra and maybe Amtrak uniforms which are available for operating crews. I'm sure they don't meet Mitch's exacting standards but they're better than those stupid polo shirts. I'm trying to improve the details on mine. This thread has been a real help. Thanks!

              Visit Hicks Car Works!
              http://hickscarworks.blogspot.com/
            • Mitchell Markovitz
              Quantity is one of the governing factors in availability. Years ago coats, for instance, were made with a horse hair inner lining. This kept the coat quite
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 1, 2011
              • 0 Attachment

                Quantity is one of the governing factors in availability.

                Years ago coats, for instance, were made with a horse hair inner lining. This kept the coat quite stiff. The pockets were constructed like the ones on the Metra uniforms with double stitching and crow's feet at the ends. By the way the breast pocket treatment is known as a "welt" pocket. New York Central, B&O, and GM&O uniforms had this on all of the coat pockets.

                When most uniforms were made to measure, using Carlson's as an example, Ru Carlson, the owner, would cut the fabric from one of many heavy card stock patterns. He would mark the cloth for pocket location, button holes, shape of the lapels and collars, etc. Then the cloth would be bundled and sent to a manufacturer. The coats were made at one location, the vests and trousers at another by union workers. When the garments arrived back at the store the garments were made available to the employee for a fitting.

                During the '70s I worked as the Chicago representative for Grand Uniform Company in New York. They were located in Grand Central Terminal. They handled the New York Central before PC came about, the Erie, Lackawanna, then after 1960 The merged E-L, PATH, and Staten Island Rapid Transit. I learned plenty

                It's not that I have exacting standards, it's just that I know the subject thoroughly and want you all to be informed. My thinking is if you want the color scheme of a preserved car to be authentic, you want the tickets and transfers to be authentic, then why should we discard wearing apparel? It's very much part of the history we preserve.

                Mitch


                ------ Original Message ------
                Received: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 01:30:26 PM EDT
                From: Raymond Bellock <rayb749@...>
                To: <thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: RE: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform


                 

                if you went to transquip with an order of 100 (or probably something less than that)  he might be able to special order with the modifications required/desired.
                 


                To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                From: art.mark@...
                Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:41:50 -0400
                Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform

                 

                Transquip is a good outfit and the fellow that operates it is good. However the uniform they sell is not really a standard version of the classic uniform. Amtrak's uniform is not really great either. The problem is that at some point made to measure uniforms became too costly for the operating authorities to purchase. The level of care given garments by employees as well led to the resort to "common wear." So uniform makers in the made to measure business folded leaving us in the position we're in now.
                If someone went to a manufacturer and said they needed 100 vests a year, you'd have them.
                Mitch


                ------ Original Message ------
                Received: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 07:04:47 AM EDT
                From: Greg Runions <foxrivermotorman@...>
                To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform



                 
                I looked up transcorp on the net and they want close to $500 for a full uniform. I would think that some place in Chicago that would have conductors uniform somewhere, I know the Metra will not sell to the public. And I don't think Amtrak will not sell to the public.

                --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...> wrote:

                From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
                Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform
                To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 6:28 PM

                 
                Let me know what you find out as I'm starting a uniform project for a railroad client of mine.
                Mitch


                ------ Original Message ------
                Received: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:59:26 AM EDT
                From: Scott Greig <sbgreig_m1@...>
                To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform


                 
                Thanks, I'll give it a try!

                --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...> wrote:

                > From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
                > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor uniform
                > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 10:51 AM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > That's something you should still be able to
                > purchase at VCG, on Irving Park as it's an item used for
                > bellman's caps.
                >
                > The spec is 2 rows of gold (yellow) lace on a 1
                > 3/4" black grosgrain cap band. I'm having some made
                > up in England right now with genuine gold lace as was done
                > in the early part of the last century.
                >
                > Please advise what you find out and if need be
                > I'll give further direction.
                >
                > Mitch
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------ Original Message ------
                >
                > Received: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:42:55 AM EDT
                >
                > From: Scott Greig
                > <sbgreig_m1@...>
                >
                > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] conductor
                > uniform
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                &g t;
                > #yiv1168474197
                >
                >  
                >
                > Does anybody still make the blue or black
                > "tape" with the gold or yellow border stripes for
                > the hat? I have a couple of vintage interurban badges (Union
                > Traction and Interstate) that I would love to display on
                > "proper" hats, but I can't find the wraparound
                > tape for an older hat, and all the modern hats I've seen
                > just have the yellow stripes "printed" on them.
                >
                >
                >
                > --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Mitchell Markovitz
                > <art.mark@...>
                > wrote:
                > < BR>>
                >
                > > From: Mitchell Markovitz <art.mark@...>
                >
                > > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail]
                > conductor uniform
                >
                > > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > > Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011,
                > 10:18 AM
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
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                > >
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                > >
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                > >
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                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Here's the news in this. Years
                > ago in what I
                >
                > > refer to as "The Standard
                > Era," there were many
                >
                > > resources for uniforms. Railroadmen
                > ha d several choices. The
                >
                > > Fair Store and later Montgomery
                > Wards sold off the rack
                >
                > > uniforms made by Hersch-Weintraub of
                > Philadelphia, and Maier
                >
                > > Lavity of Chicago. If a trainman so
                > desired he could have
                >
                > > his uniform made to measure at
                > either Maier Lavity, Marcus
                >
                > > Rueben, or at Carlson's.
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Until 1948 all uniforms were made of
                > the same
                >
                > > midnight blue, Wanscuck serge with
                > coats having four buttons
                >
                > > on the front. This was the style
                > worn by all 3 of the Insull
                >
                > > lines. This afforded a cost point as
                > there was a great
                >
                > > standardization of uniform items. In
                > '48 the Santa Fe
                >
                > > decided to modernize their uniforms
                > that included adopting
                >
                > > the Military officer's cap (bus
                > driver-pilot) and going
                >
                > > to a 3 button coat. The GM&O
                > adopted a cross between the
                >
                > > B&O (pocket treatment) and
                > GM&N (peaked lapels.)
                >
                > > Next in '56 the Burlington and
                > the Rock Island made some
                >
                > > changes. They each adopted a lighter
                > blue cloth. Both the
                >
                > > Burlington and the Rock went to 3
                > button coats. The
                >
                > > Burlington stayed with a straight
                > cap, and the Rock went to
                >
                > > what they referred to in their specs
                > as a "Yachting
                >
                > > Style" cap. The Burlington
                > adopted a deep red neck tie,
                >
                > > the Rock wasn't strict on that
                > and I saw black, blue,
                >
                > > and light blue grey neck ties on
                > trainmen. The Great
                >
                > > Northern then followed with the use
                > of French Blue cloth and >
                > > a bus cap.
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Then in 1969 came the uniform
                > tragedy of the
                >
                > > C&NW. It started as a joke
                > amongst the train crew of the
                >
                > > morning "Club Run," and a
                > company executive. This
                >
                > > was the green outfit with the 2
                > button coat in what Ru
                >
                > > Carlson referred to as
                > "Continental Styled." This
                >
                > > included a black stripe down the
                > side seams of the trousers,
                >
                > > and on the coat cuffs.
                >
                > >
                >
                > > In 1971 the IC received their
                > bi-levels and had to
                >
                > > follow suit with new suits. So they
                > got green uniforms with
                >
                > > black plastic buttons and no badges
                > with orange embroidery.
                >
                > > One had to love the early '70s
                > (I refer to the era as
                >
                > > "Early Brady Bunch") to
                > appreciate this.
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Then, almost 40 years ago came
                > Amtrak. Within their
                >
                > > first year a Nixon era contributor,
                > Angelica Career Fashions
                >
                > > of St. Louis came along and took all
                > the uniform work of
                >
                > > what remained of main line train
                > crews. This left only
                >
                > > commuter crews wearing these many
                > varied uniforms. This
                >
                > > became costly for the railroads to
                > maintain as in the past
                >
                > > trainmen purchased their own
                > uniforms every several years
                >
                > > and by the '70s the railroads
                > were purchasing as many as
                >
                > > 2 uniforms a year for each trainman.
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Then came Metra. Yours truly was
                > called upon to
                >
                > > design their uniform. Which I did.
                > The economy of this
                >
                > > decision resulted in 1 set of specs
                > for several hundred
                >
                > > uniforms a years rather than several
                > specs for maybe 100
                >
                > > suits per year. I chose US Customs
                > blue for the cloth as it
                >
                > > looked blue under fluorescent
                > lighting rather than black as
                >
                > > the midnight blue did. I trimmed the
                > cap with 2 rows of
                >
                > > yellow stripes and a plain badge
                > same as the
                >
                > > C&NW,CGW,South Shore, North
                > Shore, and CA&E did. I
                >
                > > refer to this as "Chicago
                > Trim." (The IC,
                >
                > > GM&O, and Wabash had 1 stripe at
                > the center of the cap,
                >
                > > and a cord at the visor which I
                > refer to as "Harriman
                >
                > > Trim," as many of those lines
                > used similar cap
                >
                > > treatment.)
                >
                > >
                >
                > > The last line to use made to measure
                > traditional
                >
                > > uniforms was the South Shore Line.
                > During 2003 or so,
                >
                > > immersed in the pressure of budget
                > cutting the line opted to
                >
                > > go to a casual look, which I
                > won't comment on. The last
                >
                > > company to make the uniforms was
                > Carlson VCG on Irving Park
                >
                > > Road. I believe they will still make
                > a custom vest but it
                >
                > > will be costly. I have no idea where
                > the Metra uniforms come
                >
                > > from but over time they changed from
                > a standard 6 button
                >
                > > vest to a straight bottomed 5 button
                > vest that I don't
                >
                > > think anyone would be happy with in
                > a historical
                >
                > > situation.
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Elbeco makes a nice wool-Dacron
                > blend standard city
                >
                > & gt; fire department dress trouser that
                > can be had with an
                >
                > > optional "drop watch
                > pocket." A trip to Kale's
                >
                > > Uniform on Roosevelt Road may prove
                > productive.
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Remember, in railroad days if it was
                > too hot to
                >
                > > wear a coat, it was too hot to
                > wear a vest.
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Feel free to ask more.
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Mitch
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > > ------ Original Message ------
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Received: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:48:26
                > AM EDT
                >
                > >
                >
                > > From: "foxrivermotorman"
                >
                > > <foxrivermotorman@...>
                >
                > >
                >
                > > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail]
                > conductor
                >
                > > uniform
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > > #yiv1857937546
                >
                > >
                >
                > >  
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Any one know of any where in the
                > Chicago Land
                >
                > > area were I can get a conducots
                > uniform. I just need a vest
                >
                > > and some pants. I call Chicago
                > Uniform, Carlsons and JG
                >
                > > Uniform and no luck. Thnaks
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                &g t; >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
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