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Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....

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  • Seth Bramson
    ... From: Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question.... ... Another question and a comment. A passenger could
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 21 6:43 PM
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <roygbenedict@...>
      Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....

      >>>Thanks, Roy.

      Another question and a comment.


      A passenger could depart the CA&E at the Wells St. Terminal and walk to
      destination (not too different from Union Station commuters nowadays).

      >>>Only closer!

      That's correct; Wells St. had four stub-end tracks at three platforms, one
      of which was long enough to accommodate an 8-car train. The track connection
      to the "L" Loop branched off outside of the terminal. Wells St. Terminal was
      owned by the CTA and its predecessors but was used mainly by the CA&E. There
      were "L" trains in the terminal only in the rush hours until 1951.

      >>>Was that when the South Water Street and the other (JUNIOR moment) stub
      >>>end terminal near the loop were also taken out of service?

      Alternatively, he could change to an "L" train for no additional fare at the
      same platform at the Canal St. station and take the "L" to any station on
      the Loop.

      All that ended in 1953 when the CA&E was cut back to Desplaines Avenue,
      Forest Park in anticipation of temporary track reroutings in Chicago during
      construction of the Congress Street (now Eisenhower) Expressway. The CA&E
      passenger could change to the Garfield "L" at the same platform at
      Desplaines, but not for free. The CA&E fare was set at 18c less than it had
      been all the way into Chicago, and any passenger could buy CTA "L" tokens at
      5 for 90c. The CA&E ticket agents even sold them.

      The Garfield "L" trains went around the downtown Loop until 1958 (which was
      after the CA&E quit passenger service); then they began running through the
      Dearborn St. Subway as part of what now is the CTA Blue Line. At that time
      it went only to Logan Square, not all the way to O'Hare.

      >>>From 1957 until 1964 I spent every summer in Chicago. Rode the CTA every
      >>>year and in the first year or so could still see where the Normal Park,
      >>>Stock Yards, Kenwood and Humbold Park branches left the main line.

      In '64 I went out to the then still open and in existence CA&E corporate
      office in Wheaton and was given the company's accident photo files and all
      of the extant transparencies. I foolishly sold the accident photo file some
      years later at a St.Charles show (how I wish I had held on to it!) but I
      still have and will never let go of the transparencies and good few company
      negs. The transparencies include several views of the CA&E busses.
    • roygbenedict@juno.com
      There were five stub terminals near the Loop at various times: 1. 1892-1947 Congress St. Terminal, the original end of the South Side Elevated. Also used as
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 21 6:54 PM
        There were five stub terminals near the Loop at various times:
        1. 1892-1947 Congress St. Terminal, the original end of the South Side Elevated. Also used as the North Shore Line's baggage room until 1963.
        2. 1893-1948 Market & Madison, the original end of the Lake Street Elevated.
        3. 1895-1897 Franklin St., the original end of the Metropolitan West Side Elevated.
        4. 1904(?)-1951 Wells St. Terminal as previously described in this thread. One block east and about 40 feet north of the earlier Franklin St. station.
        5. 1908-1949 North Water Terminal, a supplementary end of line for the Northwestern Elevated.

        ROY G. BENEDICT | Publishers' services
        PO Box 368, River Grove IL 60171 � R-Benedict-11@...
        Voice, message and fax: (773) 625-5263
        .
        .

        Seth Bramson <sbramson@...> wrote:

        From: <roygbenedict@...>
        Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....

        >>>Thanks, Roy.

        Another question and a comment. . . .

        . . . Wells St. Terminal was
        owned by the CTA and its predecessors but was used mainly by the CA&E. There
        were "L" trains in the terminal only in the rush hours until 1951.

        >>>Was that when the South Water Street and the other (JUNIOR moment) stub
        >>>end terminal near the loop were also taken out of service?

        >>>. . . In '64 I went out to the then still open and in existence CA&E corporate
        office in Wheaton and was given the company's accident photo files and all
        of the extant transparencies. I foolishly sold the accident photo file some
        years later at a St.Charles show (how I wish I had held on to it!) but I
        still have and will never let go of the transparencies and good few company
        negs. The transparencies include several views of the CA&E busses.
      • Scott Greig
        I thought Congress lasted as an L terminal until the big station cut of summer 1949? I seem to recall reading that it was used only by a few afternoon
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 21 7:34 PM
          I thought Congress lasted as an "L" terminal until the big station cut of summer 1949? I seem to recall reading that it was used only by a few afternoon rush-hour trains at the end.


          --- On Thu, 8/21/08, roygbenedict@... <roygbenedict@...> wrote:

          > From: roygbenedict@... <roygbenedict@...>
          > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....
          > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 8:54 PM
          > There were five stub terminals near the Loop at various
          > times:
          > 1. 1892-1947 Congress St. Terminal, the original end of the
          > South Side Elevated. Also used as the North Shore Line's
          > baggage room until 1963.
          > 2. 1893-1948 Market & Madison, the original end of the
          > Lake Street Elevated.
          > 3. 1895-1897 Franklin St., the original end of the
          > Metropolitan West Side Elevated.
          > 4. 1904(?)-1951 Wells St. Terminal as previously described
          > in this thread. One block east and about 40 feet north of
          > the earlier Franklin St. station.
          > 5. 1908-1949 North Water Terminal, a supplementary end of
          > line for the Northwestern Elevated.
          >
          > ROY G. BENEDICT | Publishers' services
          > PO Box 368, River Grove IL 60171 •
          > R-Benedict-11@...
          > Voice, message and fax: (773) 625-5263
          > .
          > .
          >
          > Seth Bramson <sbramson@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: <roygbenedict@...>
          > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic
          > question....
          >
          > >>>Thanks, Roy.
          >
          > Another question and a comment. . . .
          >
          > . . . Wells St. Terminal was
          > owned by the CTA and its predecessors but was used mainly
          > by the CA&E. There
          > were "L" trains in the terminal only in the rush
          > hours until 1951.
          >
          > >>>Was that when the South Water Street and the
          > other (JUNIOR moment) stub
          > >>>end terminal near the loop were also taken out
          > of service?
          >
          > >>>. . . In '64 I went out to the then still
          > open and in existence CA&E corporate
          > office in Wheaton and was given the company's accident
          > photo files and all
          > of the extant transparencies. I foolishly sold the accident
          > photo file some
          > years later at a St.Charles show (how I wish I had held on
          > to it!) but I
          > still have and will never let go of the transparencies and
          > good few company
          > negs. The transparencies include several views of the
          > CA&E busses.
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Seth Bramson
          ... From: Scott Greig Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question.... I thought Congress lasted as an L
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 21 7:38 PM
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Scott Greig" <sbgreig_m1@...>
            Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....


            I thought Congress lasted as an "L" terminal until the big station cut of
            summer 1949? I seem to recall reading that it was used only by a few
            afternoon rush-hour trains at the end.

            >>>Well, until the last day the NSL operated around the loop but some trains
            >>>actually terminated at the Congress terminal, where the NSL had their
            >>>baggage and LCL room until what year?
          • Scott Greig
            You had me a little confused there for a minute. Yes, the North Shore was using the Congress Stub to load their baggage cars up to that cold final day in 1963
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 21 7:46 PM
              You had me a little confused there for a minute.

              Yes, the North Shore was using the Congress Stub to load their baggage cars up to that cold final day in 1963 (using a small facility built into the adjacent parking garage, after the Congress Street Terminal was razed in the early 50s for the widening of Congress Parkway), but my prior understanding had been that the last "L" service using the terminal had been a handful of afternoon rush-hour trains to Englewood and Jackson Park. And I thought that rush-hour "L" service lasted until the great service revision and station cut of (I think) July 30, 1949.

              The old freight elevator and baggage facility remained in the parking garage (clearly visible from passing "L" trains) until the garage was razed a few years ago for the construction of University Center.

              Scott.

              --- On Thu, 8/21/08, Seth Bramson <sbramson@...> wrote:

              > From: Seth Bramson <sbramson@...>
              > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....
              > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 9:38 PM
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Scott Greig" <sbgreig_m1@...>
              > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic
              > question....
              >
              >
              > I thought Congress lasted as an "L" terminal
              > until the big station cut of
              > summer 1949? I seem to recall reading that it was used
              > only by a few
              > afternoon rush-hour trains at the end.
              >
              > >>>Well, until the last day the NSL operated
              > around the loop but some trains
              > >>>actually terminated at the Congress terminal,
              > where the NSL had their
              > >>>baggage and LCL room until what year?
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • roygbenedict@juno.com
              Of course Scott is right. I apologize for my carelessness. The date 1947 should be 1949, the same occasion as the North Water Terminal. ROY G. BENEDICT |
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 22 7:07 PM
                Of course Scott is right. I apologize for my carelessness. The date 1947 should be 1949, the same occasion as the North Water Terminal.

                ROY G. BENEDICT | Publishers' services
                PO Box 368, River Grove IL 60171 � R-Benedict-11@...
                Voice, message and fax: (773) 625-5263
                .
                .

                Scott Greig corrected the message at the foot of this thread:

                I thought Congress lasted as an "L" terminal until the big station cut of summer 1949? I seem to recall reading that it was used only by a few afternoon rush-hour trains at the end.



                --- On Thu, 8/21/08, roygbenedict@... <roygbenedict@...> wrote:

                > From: roygbenedict@... <roygbenedict@...>
                > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....
                > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 8:54 PM
                > There were five stub terminals near the Loop at various
                > times:
                > 1. 1892-1947 Congress St. Terminal, the original end of the
                > South Side Elevated. Also used as the North Shore Line's
                > baggage room until 1963. . . .
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