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Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....

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  • Seth Bramson
    ... From: Brady Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question.... ... 1) If the CA&E owned the track at ground level to
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 20, 2008
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Brady" <xy47402@...>
      Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....


      Ahoy, Ray:

      >>>Hope you don't mind my "jumping in" here, Brady.

      I'm still a bit confused:

      >>>Welcome to the club.

      1) If the CA&E owned the track at ground level to Laramie, who owned
      the elevated structure?

      >>>Chicago Rapid Transit Co., later CTA

      2) Was the CA&E's elevated in any way continuous and contiguous with
      that of the CTA elevated? Or did CA&E trains simply terminate at
      Wells?

      >>>At some point I THINK that there was an actual track connection at Wells
      >>>Street for the C A & E but I do not believe it was ever used, although
      >>>others hereon will, I am sure, set us both straight. In any case, Wells
      >>>Street was a stub end terminal for the C A & E.

      Sorry if these questions seems basic, but while I know more about the
      North Shore & the South Shore Lines (and, of course, the Indiana
      Railroad System), I don't know much about the CA&E -- yet. Also,
      I'll get around to the Illinois Terminal RR in good time.

      >>>Good. Keep up the interest and the great work. As I tell my students,
      >>>with the coming of the internet, and even with my 51 years of ferocius
      >>>(sp?), hysterical, maniacal collecting, I find something new and I learn
      >>>something new every day.
    • Scott Greig
      This is correct. The connection was known by its tower designation, Tower 22. It lasted into the very early 1960s; after the Garfield Park L was destroyed
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 20, 2008
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        This is correct. The connection was known by its tower designation, Tower 22. It lasted into the very early 1960s; after the Garfield Park "L" was destroyed the stub remnant from Tower 22 into the old station site was used to store work cars.


        --- On Wed, 8/20/08, thegreatthirdrail <thegreatthirdrail@...> wrote:

        > Someone correct me here if necessary, but I beleive after
        > the CA&E
        > was gone, the upper portion of the Wells Street Terminal
        > was removed
        > and there was a connection from the former Met elevated
        > onto the Loop
        > elevated.
        >
      • Charles Happel
        Some of these books are available through Railpub www.railpb.com. I have no financial or other interest in them, but the service is outstanding and there is
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 20, 2008
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          Some of these books are available through Railpub www.railpb.com.

          I have no financial or other interest in them, but the service is outstanding and there is an online catalog in pdf form.

          Chuck Happel

          "That we are smarter than algae is a given. Whether we are wiser
          remains an open question."

          -Robert Frenay


          --- On Wed, 8/20/08, thegreatthirdrail <thegreatthirdrail@...> wrote:

          > From: thegreatthirdrail <thegreatthirdrail@...>
          > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....
          > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Wednesday, August 20, 2008, 2:02 PM
          > > 1) If the CA&E owned the track at ground level to
          > Laramie, who
          > owned
          > > the elevated structure?
          >
          >
          > The CA&E utilized trackage rights over the CTA's
          > (Metropolitan)
          > elevated right of way, much in the same way as the North
          > Shore did.
          > All trains terminated at the Wells Street terminal and did
          > not loop
          > around the Chicago Loop like the North Shore cars were able
          > to.
          >
          > Someone correct me here if necessary, but I beleive after
          > the CA&E
          > was gone, the upper portion of the Wells Street Terminal
          > was removed
          > and there was a connection from the former Met elevated
          > onto the Loop
          > elevated.
          >
          > Welcome to the group, I'm sure the resident experts can
          > answer almost
          > any questions you might have. If you're of a mind for
          > independent
          > research, the best sources of info might be any of the
          > following
          > volumes:
          >
          > CERA Bulletin 105 The Great Third Rail
          > The Aurora and Elgin, by Jim Johnson
          > The two volume CA&E set by Larry Plachno
          > The four volume set on Fox Valley interurbans by Hopkins
          > Stolp Peffers
          >
          > All of these are out of print, but are fairly commonly
          > available on
          > ebay.
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • David T. Koyzis
          There is a photograph of #22 junction from 1955 at the bottom of p. II-5 of The Great Third Rail . The caption says that it was taken out of service in 1958.
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 20, 2008
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            There is a photograph of #22 junction from 1955 at the bottom of p. II-5 of The Great Third Rail. The caption says that it was taken out of service in 1958. On the preceding page at the top is a photo of the same location from 1926 when the Wells Street Terminal was still there.

            David


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Scott Greig" <sbgreig_m1@...>
            To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 4:10:18 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
            Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....

            This is correct. The connection was known by its tower designation, Tower 22. It lasted into the very early 1960s; after the Garfield Park "L" was destroyed the stub remnant from Tower 22 into the old station site was used to store work cars.

            --- On Wed, 8/20/08, thegreatthirdrail <thegreatthirdrail@...> wrote:

            > Someone correct me here if necessary, but I beleive after
            > the CA&E
            > was gone, the upper portion of the Wells Street Terminal
            > was removed
            > and there was a connection from the former Met elevated
            > onto the Loop
            > elevated.
            >

          • RayCosyn
            Brady, thanks for the note. As you can read, it only takes one note to wake this group up. The CA&E still runs brightly thru most of us that rode it. I only
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 20, 2008
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              Brady, thanks for the note. As you can read, it only takes one note to wake this group up. The CA&E still runs brightly thru most of us that rode it. I only wish that as a teenager I had ridden the line west to Wheaton and out to the Fox river, especially the Batavia branch. I photographed much of it during its latter days. Unfortunately one roll never turned out and another was taken in the rain. I now live on the west coast and every time I am in Chicago (summer only) to see my White Sox and visit friends and my sister, I always get on  a bike and ride the Prarie Path envisioning what it was like to have ridden the Roaring Elgin over the same ground fifty one years earlier.  

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Brady <xy47402@...>
              To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 11:38:27 AM
              Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....

              Ahoy, Ray:

              I'm still a bit confused:

              1) If the CA&E owned the track at ground level to Laramie, who owned
              the elevated structure?

              2) Was the CA&E's elevated in any way continuous and contiguous with
              that of the CTA elevated? Or did CA&E trains simply terminate at
              Wells?

              Sorry if these questions seems basic, but while I know more about the
              North Shore & the South Shore Lines (and, of course, the Indiana
              Railroad System), I don't know much about the CA&E -- yet. Also,
              I'll get around to the Illinois Terminal RR in good time.

              Thanks again,
              user xy47402

              --- In thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups. com, RayCosyn <ray.cosyn@. ..>
              wrote:

              >
              > The CA&E had a stub end terminal at Wells street. The cars came in
              on the ground level up to Laramie when they entered the elevated
              structure all the way into the loop at Wells. They were never in the
              subway. This operation continues until the fall of 1953 when train
              operation was truncated at Forest Park where commuters had to
              transfer to the el for the ride into the loop (Garfield Park Branch).
              This level of service continued until end of passenger service on
              July 3rd of 1957. The railroad , at one time owned all of the
              tyrackage west of Laramie avenue. I started riding it in January of
              1954 thru end of service. It was fast, clean and comfortable and
              thing of beauty to behold.   
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message ----
              > From: Brady <xy47402@... >
              > To: thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups.
              com
              > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 8:52:29 AM
              > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] New to group; basic question....
              >
              >
              > Hey everyone,
              >
              > I'm a newby; just joined, and the CA&E is the one Insull interurban
              of
              > which I know precious little. I had the pleasure of riding wooden
              > motor #20 at the Fox River Trolley Museum in June and decided that
              I
              > need to do more research.
              >
              > One basic question, right off the bat: How far eastward toward
              Chicago
              > did CA&E-owned trackage extend. I know there was a terminal at
              Wells &
              > Jakcson, but I've also heard that the CA&E used the CTA elevated
              and
              > the subway in the Loop. What exactly was the arrangement for Loop-
              > bound passengers. How did they reach the Loop? When did Loop
              service
              > end? Pictures of the Wells & Jackson terminal make it look like a
              stub.
              > Thanks!
              > user xy47402
              >

            • Jim Dyer
              Here s more info: http://www.chicago-l.org/stations/wells_term.html It s got the answers to most of your questions. Jim ... Jim Dyer 900 North Kingsbury St.
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 20, 2008
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                Here's more info:


                It's got the answers to most of your questions.
                Jim

                On Aug 20, 2008, at 1:38 PM, Brady wrote:

                Ahoy, Ray:

                I'm still a bit confused:

                1) If the CA&E owned the track at ground level to Laramie, who owned 
                the elevated structure?

                2) Was the CA&E's elevated in any way continuous and contiguous with 
                that of the CTA elevated? Or did CA&E trains simply terminate at 
                Wells?

                Sorry if these questions seems basic, but while I know more about the 
                North Shore & the South Shore Lines (and, of course, the Indiana 
                Railroad System), I don't know much about the CA&E -- yet. Also, 
                I'll get around to the Illinois Terminal RR in good time.

                Thanks again,
                user xy47402

                --- In thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups. com, RayCosyn <ray.cosyn@. ..> 
                wrote:
                >
                > The CA&E had a stub end terminal at Wells street. The cars came in 
                on the ground level up to Laramie when they entered the elevated 
                structure all the way into the loop at Wells. They were never in the 
                subway. This operation continues until the fall of 1953 when train 
                operation was truncated at Forest Park where commuters had to 
                transfer to the el for the ride into the loop (Garfield Park Branch). 
                This level of service continued until end of passenger service on 
                July 3rd of 1957. The railroad , at one time owned all of the 
                tyrackage west of Laramie avenue. I started riding it in January of 
                1954 thru end of service. It was fast, clean and comfortable and 
                thing of beauty to behold.   
                > 
                > 
                > 
                > ----- Original Message ----
                > From: Brady <xy47402@... >
                > To: thegreatthirdrail@ yahoogroups. com
                > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 8:52:29 AM
                > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] New to group; basic question....
                > 
                > 
                > Hey everyone,
                > 
                > I'm a newby; just joined, and the CA&E is the one Insull interurban 
                of 
                > which I know precious little. I had the pleasure of riding wooden 
                > motor #20 at the Fox River Trolley Museum in June and decided that 
                I 
                > need to do more research.
                > 
                > One basic question, right off the bat: How far eastward toward 
                Chicago 
                > did CA&E-owned trackage extend. I know there was a terminal at 
                Wells & 
                > Jakcson, but I've also heard that the CA&E used the CTA elevated 
                and 
                > the subway in the Loop. What exactly was the arrangement for Loop-
                > bound passengers. How did they reach the Loop? When did Loop 
                service 
                > end? Pictures of the Wells & Jackson terminal make it look like a 
                stub.
                > Thanks!
                > user xy47402
                >


                Jim Dyer
                900 North Kingsbury St. #1000
                Chicago, Illinois
                60610
                P: 1.312.321.0504
                F: 1.312.321.0512




              • glen brewer
                Brady. Indeed, yes, welcome to the group. It is wonderful to see a little activity around here! I remember riding to Wells Street several times as a young boy
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 21, 2008
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                  Brady.

                  Indeed, yes, welcome to the group. It is wonderful to see a little
                  activity around here!

                  I remember riding to Wells Street several times as a young boy with my
                  mom. We would transfer to the L and ride around to Marshall Field's. I
                  wish I could remember how we made the transfer to the CTA.

                  Glen

                  Remembering the 'Ror'n' Elgin:
                  http://www.railroadphotoessays.com/forum/showthread.php?t=748

                  Riding the Electroliner:
                  http://www.railroadphotoessays.com/forum/showthread.php?t=792
                • Scott Greig
                  There was a transfer bridge from the platform level of Wells Street Terminal to the southbound Outer Loop platform of Quincy & Wells.
                  Message 8 of 21 , Aug 21, 2008
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                    There was a transfer bridge from the platform level of Wells Street Terminal to the southbound Outer Loop platform of Quincy & Wells.


                    --- On Thu, 8/21/08, glen brewer <gbrewer@...> wrote:

                    > From: glen brewer <gbrewer@...>
                    > Subject: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....
                    > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 4:54 PM
                    > Brady.
                    >
                    > Indeed, yes, welcome to the group. It is wonderful to see
                    > a little
                    > activity around here!
                    >
                    > I remember riding to Wells Street several times as a young
                    > boy with my
                    > mom. We would transfer to the L and ride around to Marshall
                    > Field's. I
                    > wish I could remember how we made the transfer to the CTA.
                    >
                    > Glen
                    >
                    > Remembering the 'Ror'n' Elgin:
                    > http://www.railroadphotoessays.com/forum/showthread.php?t=748
                    >
                    > Riding the Electroliner:
                    > http://www.railroadphotoessays.com/forum/showthread.php?t=792
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • roygbenedict@juno.com
                    1. (a) The CTA and its predecessors owned the track and structure east of Laramie Avenue. (b) The CA&E and its predecessor owned the track from Laramie to
                    Message 9 of 21 , Aug 21, 2008
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                      1. (a) The CTA and its predecessors owned the track and structure east of Laramie Avenue. (b) The CA&E and its predecessor owned the track from Laramie to Desplaines Avenue, Forest Park; but it was sold to CTA after CA&E was no longer operating east of Forest Park, before expressway construction started.
                      (c) The CA&E and a subsidiary owned the track from Desplaines to Mannheim & 22nd St.
                      (d) But the two carriers traded operating rights on those various portions so that CA&E could reach downtown Chicago (Wells St. Terminal at 314 S. Wells St.) and the "L" trains could reach Mannheim & 22nd.

                      2. Those various stretches of line and track joined one another end-to-end at Laramie and at Desplaines. The passengers did not need to consider the different ownership of the different sections.

                      ROY G. BENEDICT | Publishers' services
                      PO Box 368, River Grove IL 60171 � R-Benedict-11@...
                      Voice, message and fax: (773) 625-5263
                      .
                      .

                      Brady inquired:

                      1) If the CA&E owned the track at ground level to Laramie, who owned
                      the elevated structure?

                      2) Was the CA&E's elevated in any way continuous and contiguous with
                      that of the CTA elevated? Or did CA&E trains simply terminate at
                      Wells?
                    • roygbenedict@juno.com
                      A passenger could depart the CA&E at the Wells St. Terminal and walk to destination (not too different from Union Station commuters nowadays). That s correct;
                      Message 10 of 21 , Aug 21, 2008
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                        A passenger could depart the CA&E at the Wells St. Terminal and walk to destination (not too different from Union Station commuters nowadays).

                        That's correct; Wells St. had four stub-end tracks at three platforms, one of which was long enough to accommodate an 8-car train. The track connection to the "L" Loop branched off outside of the terminal. Wells St. Terminal was owned by the CTA and its predecessors but was used mainly by the CA&E. There were "L" trains in the terminal only in the rush hours until 1951.

                        Alternatively, he could change to an "L" train for no additional fare at the same platform at the Canal St. station and take the "L" to any station on the Loop.

                        All that ended in 1953 when the CA&E was cut back to Desplaines Avenue, Forest Park in anticipation of temporary track reroutings in Chicago during construction of the Congress Street (now Eisenhower) Expressway. The CA&E passenger could change to the Garfield "L" at the same platform at Desplaines, but not for free. The CA&E fare was set at 18c less than it had been all the way into Chicago, and any passenger could buy CTA "L" tokens at 5 for 90c. The CA&E ticket agents even sold them.

                        The Garfield "L" trains went around the downtown Loop until 1958 (which was after the CA&E quit passenger service); then they began running through the Dearborn St. Subway as part of what now is the CTA Blue Line. At that time it went only to Logan Square, not all the way to O'Hare.

                        ROY G. BENEDICT | Publishers' services
                        PO Box 368, River Grove IL 60171 � R-Benedict-11@...
                        Voice, message and fax: (773) 625-5263
                        .
                        .

                        Brady inquired:

                        What exactly was the arrangement for Loop-
                        bound passengers. How did they reach the Loop? When did Loop
                        service
                        end? Pictures of the Wells & Jackson terminal make it look like a
                        stub.
                      • Seth Bramson
                        ... From: Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question.... ... Another question and a comment. A passenger could
                        Message 11 of 21 , Aug 21, 2008
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                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: <roygbenedict@...>
                          Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....

                          >>>Thanks, Roy.

                          Another question and a comment.


                          A passenger could depart the CA&E at the Wells St. Terminal and walk to
                          destination (not too different from Union Station commuters nowadays).

                          >>>Only closer!

                          That's correct; Wells St. had four stub-end tracks at three platforms, one
                          of which was long enough to accommodate an 8-car train. The track connection
                          to the "L" Loop branched off outside of the terminal. Wells St. Terminal was
                          owned by the CTA and its predecessors but was used mainly by the CA&E. There
                          were "L" trains in the terminal only in the rush hours until 1951.

                          >>>Was that when the South Water Street and the other (JUNIOR moment) stub
                          >>>end terminal near the loop were also taken out of service?

                          Alternatively, he could change to an "L" train for no additional fare at the
                          same platform at the Canal St. station and take the "L" to any station on
                          the Loop.

                          All that ended in 1953 when the CA&E was cut back to Desplaines Avenue,
                          Forest Park in anticipation of temporary track reroutings in Chicago during
                          construction of the Congress Street (now Eisenhower) Expressway. The CA&E
                          passenger could change to the Garfield "L" at the same platform at
                          Desplaines, but not for free. The CA&E fare was set at 18c less than it had
                          been all the way into Chicago, and any passenger could buy CTA "L" tokens at
                          5 for 90c. The CA&E ticket agents even sold them.

                          The Garfield "L" trains went around the downtown Loop until 1958 (which was
                          after the CA&E quit passenger service); then they began running through the
                          Dearborn St. Subway as part of what now is the CTA Blue Line. At that time
                          it went only to Logan Square, not all the way to O'Hare.

                          >>>From 1957 until 1964 I spent every summer in Chicago. Rode the CTA every
                          >>>year and in the first year or so could still see where the Normal Park,
                          >>>Stock Yards, Kenwood and Humbold Park branches left the main line.

                          In '64 I went out to the then still open and in existence CA&E corporate
                          office in Wheaton and was given the company's accident photo files and all
                          of the extant transparencies. I foolishly sold the accident photo file some
                          years later at a St.Charles show (how I wish I had held on to it!) but I
                          still have and will never let go of the transparencies and good few company
                          negs. The transparencies include several views of the CA&E busses.
                        • roygbenedict@juno.com
                          There were five stub terminals near the Loop at various times: 1. 1892-1947 Congress St. Terminal, the original end of the South Side Elevated. Also used as
                          Message 12 of 21 , Aug 21, 2008
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                            There were five stub terminals near the Loop at various times:
                            1. 1892-1947 Congress St. Terminal, the original end of the South Side Elevated. Also used as the North Shore Line's baggage room until 1963.
                            2. 1893-1948 Market & Madison, the original end of the Lake Street Elevated.
                            3. 1895-1897 Franklin St., the original end of the Metropolitan West Side Elevated.
                            4. 1904(?)-1951 Wells St. Terminal as previously described in this thread. One block east and about 40 feet north of the earlier Franklin St. station.
                            5. 1908-1949 North Water Terminal, a supplementary end of line for the Northwestern Elevated.

                            ROY G. BENEDICT | Publishers' services
                            PO Box 368, River Grove IL 60171 � R-Benedict-11@...
                            Voice, message and fax: (773) 625-5263
                            .
                            .

                            Seth Bramson <sbramson@...> wrote:

                            From: <roygbenedict@...>
                            Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....

                            >>>Thanks, Roy.

                            Another question and a comment. . . .

                            . . . Wells St. Terminal was
                            owned by the CTA and its predecessors but was used mainly by the CA&E. There
                            were "L" trains in the terminal only in the rush hours until 1951.

                            >>>Was that when the South Water Street and the other (JUNIOR moment) stub
                            >>>end terminal near the loop were also taken out of service?

                            >>>. . . In '64 I went out to the then still open and in existence CA&E corporate
                            office in Wheaton and was given the company's accident photo files and all
                            of the extant transparencies. I foolishly sold the accident photo file some
                            years later at a St.Charles show (how I wish I had held on to it!) but I
                            still have and will never let go of the transparencies and good few company
                            negs. The transparencies include several views of the CA&E busses.
                          • Scott Greig
                            I thought Congress lasted as an L terminal until the big station cut of summer 1949? I seem to recall reading that it was used only by a few afternoon
                            Message 13 of 21 , Aug 21, 2008
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                              I thought Congress lasted as an "L" terminal until the big station cut of summer 1949? I seem to recall reading that it was used only by a few afternoon rush-hour trains at the end.


                              --- On Thu, 8/21/08, roygbenedict@... <roygbenedict@...> wrote:

                              > From: roygbenedict@... <roygbenedict@...>
                              > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....
                              > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 8:54 PM
                              > There were five stub terminals near the Loop at various
                              > times:
                              > 1. 1892-1947 Congress St. Terminal, the original end of the
                              > South Side Elevated. Also used as the North Shore Line's
                              > baggage room until 1963.
                              > 2. 1893-1948 Market & Madison, the original end of the
                              > Lake Street Elevated.
                              > 3. 1895-1897 Franklin St., the original end of the
                              > Metropolitan West Side Elevated.
                              > 4. 1904(?)-1951 Wells St. Terminal as previously described
                              > in this thread. One block east and about 40 feet north of
                              > the earlier Franklin St. station.
                              > 5. 1908-1949 North Water Terminal, a supplementary end of
                              > line for the Northwestern Elevated.
                              >
                              > ROY G. BENEDICT | Publishers' services
                              > PO Box 368, River Grove IL 60171 •
                              > R-Benedict-11@...
                              > Voice, message and fax: (773) 625-5263
                              > .
                              > .
                              >
                              > Seth Bramson <sbramson@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From: <roygbenedict@...>
                              > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic
                              > question....
                              >
                              > >>>Thanks, Roy.
                              >
                              > Another question and a comment. . . .
                              >
                              > . . . Wells St. Terminal was
                              > owned by the CTA and its predecessors but was used mainly
                              > by the CA&E. There
                              > were "L" trains in the terminal only in the rush
                              > hours until 1951.
                              >
                              > >>>Was that when the South Water Street and the
                              > other (JUNIOR moment) stub
                              > >>>end terminal near the loop were also taken out
                              > of service?
                              >
                              > >>>. . . In '64 I went out to the then still
                              > open and in existence CA&E corporate
                              > office in Wheaton and was given the company's accident
                              > photo files and all
                              > of the extant transparencies. I foolishly sold the accident
                              > photo file some
                              > years later at a St.Charles show (how I wish I had held on
                              > to it!) but I
                              > still have and will never let go of the transparencies and
                              > good few company
                              > negs. The transparencies include several views of the
                              > CA&E busses.
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Seth Bramson
                              ... From: Scott Greig Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question.... I thought Congress lasted as an L
                              Message 14 of 21 , Aug 21, 2008
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                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Scott Greig" <sbgreig_m1@...>
                                Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....


                                I thought Congress lasted as an "L" terminal until the big station cut of
                                summer 1949? I seem to recall reading that it was used only by a few
                                afternoon rush-hour trains at the end.

                                >>>Well, until the last day the NSL operated around the loop but some trains
                                >>>actually terminated at the Congress terminal, where the NSL had their
                                >>>baggage and LCL room until what year?
                              • Scott Greig
                                You had me a little confused there for a minute. Yes, the North Shore was using the Congress Stub to load their baggage cars up to that cold final day in 1963
                                Message 15 of 21 , Aug 21, 2008
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                                  You had me a little confused there for a minute.

                                  Yes, the North Shore was using the Congress Stub to load their baggage cars up to that cold final day in 1963 (using a small facility built into the adjacent parking garage, after the Congress Street Terminal was razed in the early 50s for the widening of Congress Parkway), but my prior understanding had been that the last "L" service using the terminal had been a handful of afternoon rush-hour trains to Englewood and Jackson Park. And I thought that rush-hour "L" service lasted until the great service revision and station cut of (I think) July 30, 1949.

                                  The old freight elevator and baggage facility remained in the parking garage (clearly visible from passing "L" trains) until the garage was razed a few years ago for the construction of University Center.

                                  Scott.

                                  --- On Thu, 8/21/08, Seth Bramson <sbramson@...> wrote:

                                  > From: Seth Bramson <sbramson@...>
                                  > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....
                                  > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 9:38 PM
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: "Scott Greig" <sbgreig_m1@...>
                                  > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic
                                  > question....
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I thought Congress lasted as an "L" terminal
                                  > until the big station cut of
                                  > summer 1949? I seem to recall reading that it was used
                                  > only by a few
                                  > afternoon rush-hour trains at the end.
                                  >
                                  > >>>Well, until the last day the NSL operated
                                  > around the loop but some trains
                                  > >>>actually terminated at the Congress terminal,
                                  > where the NSL had their
                                  > >>>baggage and LCL room until what year?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • roygbenedict@juno.com
                                  Of course Scott is right. I apologize for my carelessness. The date 1947 should be 1949, the same occasion as the North Water Terminal. ROY G. BENEDICT |
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Aug 22, 2008
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                                    Of course Scott is right. I apologize for my carelessness. The date 1947 should be 1949, the same occasion as the North Water Terminal.

                                    ROY G. BENEDICT | Publishers' services
                                    PO Box 368, River Grove IL 60171 � R-Benedict-11@...
                                    Voice, message and fax: (773) 625-5263
                                    .
                                    .

                                    Scott Greig corrected the message at the foot of this thread:

                                    I thought Congress lasted as an "L" terminal until the big station cut of summer 1949? I seem to recall reading that it was used only by a few afternoon rush-hour trains at the end.



                                    --- On Thu, 8/21/08, roygbenedict@... <roygbenedict@...> wrote:

                                    > From: roygbenedict@... <roygbenedict@...>
                                    > Subject: Re: [thegreatthirdrail] Re: New to group; basic question....
                                    > To: thegreatthirdrail@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 8:54 PM
                                    > There were five stub terminals near the Loop at various
                                    > times:
                                    > 1. 1892-1947 Congress St. Terminal, the original end of the
                                    > South Side Elevated. Also used as the North Shore Line's
                                    > baggage room until 1963. . . .
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