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Texas murder suicide

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  • mahtezcatpoc
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070530/ap_on_re_us/children_killed;_ylt=ArLHen307iqUXc2vI53Ai.ZvzwcF In Hudson Oaks, Texas (west of Fort Worth in Parker County)
    Message 1 of 11 , May 31, 2007
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      http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070530/ap_on_re_us/children_killed;_ylt=ArLHen307iqUXc2vI53Ai.ZvzwcF


      In Hudson Oaks, Texas (west of Fort Worth in Parker County) several
      days ago, Gilberta "Berta" Estrada hung her four daughters in the
      closet of her mobile home and then killed herself. Her sister
      Alejandra, who lived in the same trailer park, found the bodies
      Tuesday after forcing her way in when Berta didn't show up for her job
      at a fast-food place.

      At noon CDT on Tuesday, Sun was aligned with the Hyades (it was rainy
      here in Texas that day, too), Mercury aligned with Menkalinan (Beta
      Aurigae), Venus was aligned with Pollux (Beta Geminorum) and the
      Medusa Nebula (Abell 21 Geminorum), Ceres with Alpherg (Eta Piscium)
      and Vertex (M-31 Andromedae, the Andromeda Galaxy).


      She did the job fairly well (Alpherg), but not well enough: her
      youngest child survived. (Fortunately, she--the baby--won't suffer any
      permanent physical damage.)


      Mark A. Holmes
    • Trishmare7@aol.com
      In a message dated 5/31/2007 8:06:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mahtezcatpoc@yahoo.com writes: In Hudson Oaks, Texas (west of Fort Worth in Parker County)
      Message 2 of 11 , May 31, 2007
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        In a message dated 5/31/2007 8:06:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mahtezcatpoc@... writes:
        In Hudson Oaks, Texas (west of Fort Worth in Parker County) several
        days ago, Gilberta "Berta" Estrada hung her four daughters in the
        closet of her mobile home and then killed herself.
        On July 16th, 2002 another Hudson Oaks mother (Dee Etta Perez) shot her three children (ages 4, 9 and 10) before killing herself.  On May 10, 2003 Deanna Laney beat her two sons to death with stones in Tyler, Texas.  On September 25, 2003 Lisa Ann Diaz drowned her daughters in Plano, Texas.  And on November 23, 2004 Dena Schlosser fatally severed her 10 month old daughter's arms with a kitchen knife, also in Plano, Texas (Plano is a suburb of Dallas--on Nov. 22, 1963 JFK was assassinated in Dallas).  Then of course there was the very infamous case of Andrea Yates, who on June 20th, 2001 drowned her five children in Houston.
         
        With the exception of the Yates case all of these child killings occurred in Texas close to the same latitude (area of Dallas/Ft.Worth and suburbs).   Generally 32-33 N, 96 W.  The dates are quite different though. 
         
        I've only had time to look at the most recent murders, but for this latest (I used May 29th), Menkar is the Heliacal Rising Star (Brady's Starlight says of this in mundane: "The nihilist, or a person who goes with the flow"--a nihilist is of course a person who thinks life is so bad and hopeless that non-existence is preferable).  On May 29th the Algol was in paran to the Sun (set as Sun was setting) and we all know Algol's connection with head and throat injuries (the mother hung her children).  Alphard, another star of strong passion (Starlight says "When submerged in the unconscious, it can be murderous and violent in manifestation").
         
        Anyway, I'm out of time, but when I get the chance I'm definitely going to look at these other dates ...
         
        Trish Marie




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      • Nicola Allsop
        Hey Trish Glad to see you home safe and sound, and posting again! I think your comments on those latitude areas are spot on. Did you look them up visually?
        Message 3 of 11 , May 31, 2007
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          Hey Trish

           

          Glad to see you home safe and sound, and posting again!  I think your comments on those latitude areas are spot on.  Did you look them up visually?  Did you notice any Moon going over Saturn or any declinations that were interesting?

           

          I am back now in UK and am a little tired after our South African experience.

           

          Regards

          Nicky

           


          From: thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com [mailto:thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Trishmare7@...
          Sent: 31 May 2007 17:58
          To: thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [thefixedstars] Texas murder suicide

           

          In a message dated 5/31/2007 8:06:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mahtezcatpoc@ yahoo.com writes:

          In Hudson Oaks, Texas (west of Fort Worth in Parker County ) several
          days ago, Gilberta "Berta" Estrada hung her four daughters in the
          closet of her mobile home and then killed herself.

          On July 16th, 2002 another Hudson Oaks mother (Dee Etta Perez) shot her three children (ages 4, 9 and 10) before killing herself.  On May 10, 2003 Deanna Laney beat her two sons to death with stones in Tyler , Texas .  On September 25, 2003 Lisa Ann Diaz drowned her daughters in Plano , Texas .  And on November 23, 2004 Dena Schlosser fatally severed her 10 month old daughter's arms with a kitchen knife, also in Plano , Texas (Plano is a suburb of Dallas--on Nov. 22, 1963 JFK was assassinated in Dallas).  Then of course there was the very infamous case of Andrea Yates, who on June 20th, 2001 drowned her five children in Houston .

           

          With the exception of the Yates case all of these child killings occurred in Texas close to the same latitude (area of Dallas/Ft.Worth and suburbs).   Generally 32-33 N, 96 W.  The dates are quite different though. 

           

          I've only had time to look at the most recent murders, but for this latest (I used May 29th), Menkar is the Heliacal Rising Star (Brady's Starlight says of this in mundane: "The nihilist, or a person who goes with the flow"--a nihilist is of course a person who thinks life is so bad and hopeless that non-existence is preferable).  On May 29th the Algol was in paran to the Sun (set as Sun was setting) and we all know Algol's connection with head and throat injuries (the mother hung her children).  Alphard, another star of strong passion (Starlight says "When submerged in the unconscious, it can be murderous and violent in manifestation" ).

           

          Anyway, I'm out of time, but when I get the chance I'm definitely going to look at these other dates ...

           

          Trish Marie




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        • Trishmare7@aol.com
          Hello Nicky! I can imagine you are a little tired--I was exhausted for the first 4 days or so that I was back, and I was one of the lucky astrologers who
          Message 4 of 11 , May 31, 2007
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            Hello Nicky!
             
            I can imagine you are a "little" tired--I was exhausted for the first 4 days or so that I was back, and I was one of the lucky astrologers who luxuriated in the benefit of all of your and Bipin and Bernadette and Darrelyn's hard work! 
             
            When the story broke here about these latest Texas child murders, the first thing I thought was jeeze, what's up with Texas?  So many mothers drowning and hanging and in other ways killing their kids there.  But then I immediately remembered what Bernadette said about looking at the parans along latitudes when events seem to cluster there, so I looked up all the murders and the cities and there it was--all but the one right along the same latitude (and longitude for that matter).  The Yates case was Houston but that's still close.  That plus using Starlight to find the parans is all I've had time to do so far but am going to research more (just to satisfy my own curiosity) later.  I'll definitely look at whether Saturn goes over the Moon!  Thanks for the reminder on that one Nicky!
             
            (Note to listers: I've recently returned from the marvelous experience of the inaugural Visual Astrology Conference, held just recently in Matjiesfontein, South Africa--the experience amazed me; not only was the transportation and accommodations and meals provided fantastic but the astrology presented has opened up a whole new world, astrologically, at least for me.  I'd been hesitant to go, partly because for the price of the trip I could have bought a lot of books/tutorials/etc and I wondered if the astrology learned would be worth the "price of admission," as it were.  Bernadette Brady's free lecture posted on the web really piqued my already active interest though, and I signed up and bought my very first International destination plane ticket. And holy cow, was the experience and the astrology learned ever worth it!--one of the best values for my money I've ever received.  I've no idea if the Nicky and the rest plan on doing another one ever--the amount of work that went into this must've been staggering--but if they do, my advice to any visual or fixed star astrologer is, or for that matter any astrologer in general is--get your behinds to wherever the conference is held--even if it's half way around the world--you will be glad you did.  I am!)
             
            Still have the Southern Cross and Scorpio in all its glory in my eyes,
            (we never get to see Scorpio like that here in Michigan, alas ...)
            Trish Marie
             
            In a message dated 5/31/2007 12:47:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nicola.allsop@... writes:

            Hey Trish

            Glad to see you home safe and sound, and posting again!  I think your comments on those latitude areas are spot on.  Did you look them up visually?  Did you notice any Moon going over Saturn or any declinations that were interesting?

            I am back now in UK and am a little tired after our South African experience.

            Regards

            Nicky

             




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          • Trishmare7@aol.com
            In a message dated 5/31/2007 12:12:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Trishmare7@aol.com writes: Alphard, another star of strong passion (Starlight says When
            Message 5 of 11 , May 31, 2007
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              In a message dated 5/31/2007 12:12:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Trishmare7@... writes:
              Alphard, another star of strong passion (Starlight says "When submerged in the unconscious, it can be murderous and violent in manifestation" ).
              Oops, I meant Alphard was in paran with the Sun ... on the nadir as Sun rose ... for the same day/place.  (Sorry for any confusion--was interrupted in the middle of typing the post).
               
              Trish




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            • mahtezcatpoc
              ... the first ... drowning ... immediately ... latitudes ... and the ... latitude (and ... still close. ... to do so ... later. I m looking forward to seeing
              Message 6 of 11 , May 31, 2007
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                --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, Trishmare7@... wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > When the story broke here about these latest Texas child murders,
                the first
                > thing I thought was jeeze, what's up with Texas? So many mothers
                drowning
                > and hanging and in other ways killing their kids there. But then I
                immediately
                > remembered what Bernadette said about looking at the parans along
                latitudes
                > when events seem to cluster there, so I looked up all the murders
                and the
                > cities and there it was--all but the one right along the same
                latitude (and
                > longitude for that matter). The Yates case was Houston but that's
                still close.
                > That plus using Starlight to find the parans is all I've had time
                to do so
                > far but am going to research more (just to satisfy my own curiosity)
                later.


                I'm looking forward to seeing them.

                BTW: The Laney murders occurred not exactly in Tyler, but in New
                Chapel Hill, a village of about 1000 adjoining Tyler on the east. I
                don't know how much difference that's going to make.

                I find it intriguing that so many of these cases of mothers killing
                their children are happening in this relatively confined area (in the
                Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex and within a range of about 100 miles to
                the east of Dallas and to the west of Fort Worth). I wonder if there
                are aspects, like progressions to fixed stars, in the Dallas and Fort
                Worth natal charts that might also reflect these events. I'm going by
                Carolyn Dodson's theory that a city's natal chart influences the
                region around the city as well as the city itself, and Dallas
                (population about 1.2 million) and Fort Worth (population about
                650,000) are the two largest of the various municipalities that make
                up the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex.

                I think I'll look that up.

                The data, from Dodson's book *Horoscopes of the US States and Cities*
                (pp.132-133):

                Dallas: February 2, 1856, noon, Dallas.
                Fort Worth: February 15, 1873, noon, Fort Worth.

                ****


                ...Well, Fort Worth Venus, progressed to today's date, is aligned with
                Algol.



                Mark A. Holmes
              • Trishmare7@aol.com
                I wondered that (about the natal charts of Dallas/Ft.Worth) too Mark--thanks for the natal data! More grist to add to the mill (I still haven t had time to
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 1, 2007
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                  I wondered that (about the natal charts of Dallas/Ft.Worth) too Mark--thanks for the natal data!  More grist to add to the mill (I still haven't had time to look at the parans and sky maps for all of the murders yet, but will).  Why are we not surprised about pro. Venus aligning with Algol? (Shudder).
                   
                  Trish Marie
                   
                  In a message dated 5/31/2007 8:41:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mahtezcatpoc@... writes:
                  The data, from Dodson's book *Horoscopes of the US States and Cities*
                  (pp.132-133) :

                  Dallas: February 2, 1856, noon, Dallas.
                  Fort Worth: February 15, 1873, noon, Fort Worth.

                  ****

                  ...Well, Fort Worth Venus, progressed to today's date, is aligned with
                  Algol.
                   




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                • Mark Andrew Holmes
                  ... Plano is just north of Dallas and New Chapel Hill is maybe an hour s drive east (maybe within range of the Dallas natal chart; I don t have Tyler s natal
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 1, 2007
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                    --- Trishmare7@... wrote:

                    >
                    > I wondered that (about the natal charts of
                    > Dallas/Ft.Worth) too Mark--thanks
                    > for the natal data! More grist to add to the mill
                    > (I still haven't had time
                    > to look at the parans and sky maps for all of the
                    > murders yet, but will).
                    > Why are we not surprised about pro. Venus aligning
                    > with Algol? (Shudder).
                    >


                    Plano is just north of Dallas and New Chapel Hill is
                    maybe an hour's drive east (maybe within range of the
                    Dallas natal chart; I don't have Tyler's natal data).

                    Let me look up the dates of those murders and the
                    progressions.

                    Mark A. Holmes


                    >
                    > In a message dated 5/31/2007 8:41:59 P.M. Eastern
                    > Daylight Time,
                    > mahtezcatpoc@... writes:
                    >
                    > The data, from Dodson's book *Horoscopes of the US
                    > States and Cities*
                    > (pp.132-133)(
                    >
                    > Dallas: February 2, 1856, noon, Dallas.
                    > Fort Worth: February 15, 1873, noon, Fort Worth.
                    >
                    > ****
                    >
                    > ...Well, Fort Worth Venus, progressed to today's
                    > date, is aligned with
                    > Algol.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ************************************** See what's
                    > free at http://www.aol.com
                    >





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                  • mahtezcatpoc
                    ... July 16, 2002 (Perez murders in Hudson Oaks): Fort Worth North Node aligned with Algol by secondary progression. Here you have other alignments with stars
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 2, 2007
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                      --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, Mark Andrew Holmes
                      <mahtezcatpoc@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > --- Trishmare7@... wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > > I wondered that (about the natal charts of
                      > > Dallas/Ft.Worth) too Mark--thanks
                      > > for the natal data! More grist to add to the mill
                      > > (I still haven't had time
                      > > to look at the parans and sky maps for all of the
                      > > murders yet, but will).
                      > > Why are we not surprised about pro. Venus aligning
                      > > with Algol? (Shudder).
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > Plano is just north of Dallas and New Chapel Hill is
                      > maybe an hour's drive east (maybe within range of the
                      > Dallas natal chart; I don't have Tyler's natal data).
                      >
                      > Let me look up the dates of those murders and the
                      > progressions.
                      >
                      > Mark A. Holmes
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > In a message dated 5/31/2007 8:41:59 P.M. Eastern
                      > > Daylight Time,
                      > > mahtezcatpoc@... writes:
                      > >
                      > > The data, from Dodson's book *Horoscopes of the US
                      > > States and Cities*
                      > > (pp.132-133)(
                      > >
                      > > Dallas: February 2, 1856, noon, Dallas.
                      > > Fort Worth: February 15, 1873, noon, Fort Worth.
                      > >
                      > > ****
                      > >
                      > > ...Well, Fort Worth Venus, progressed to today's
                      > > date, is aligned with
                      > > Algol.
                      > >



                      July 16, 2002 (Perez murders in Hudson Oaks): Fort Worth North Node
                      aligned with Algol by secondary progression.


                      Here you have other alignments with stars associated with violence,
                      crime or sorrow also:


                      September 25, 2003 (Diaz murders in Plano)
                      November 23, 2004 (Schlosser murder in Plano): Dallas Uranus aligned
                      with Algol by secondary progression.

                      Also, again in both cases: Dallas Mercury aligned with Polaris by
                      secondary progression.

                      Dallas Pluto aligned with Hamal (Alpha Arietis) by secondary progression.

                      Dallas Juno aligned with Castra (Epsilon Capricorni) by secondary
                      progression.

                      Dallas Vesta aligned with Alcyone (Eta Tauri)/Pleiades by secondary
                      progression.



                      Mark A. Holmes
                    • mahtezcatpoc
                      ... Dallas is kind of far away, and Tyler has its own chart; it was incorporated January 29, 1850.
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 2, 2007
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                        --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, Mark Andrew Holmes
                        <mahtezcatpoc@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > --- Trishmare7@... wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > > I wondered that (about the natal charts of
                        > > Dallas/Ft.Worth) too Mark--thanks
                        > > for the natal data! More grist to add to the mill
                        > > (I still haven't had time
                        > > to look at the parans and sky maps for all of the
                        > > murders yet, but will).
                        > > Why are we not surprised about pro. Venus aligning
                        > > with Algol? (Shudder).
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > Plano is just north of Dallas and New Chapel Hill is
                        > maybe an hour's drive east (maybe within range of the
                        > Dallas natal chart; I don't have Tyler's natal data).
                        >
                        > Let me look up the dates of those murders and the
                        > progressions.



                        Dallas is kind of far away, and Tyler has its own chart; it was
                        incorporated January 29, 1850.

                        http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/TT/hdt4.html


                        At the time of the Laney murders, Tyler's Venus had progressed to
                        alignment with Acubens (Alpha Cancri) and its Saturn had progressed to
                        alignment with Baten Kaitos (Zeta Ceti).


                        "Compulsory transportation" (Baten Kaitos) would be a good way to
                        describe not only Deanna Laney taking her boys behind the house to
                        bash in their heads with a rock (Saturn), but also her involuntary
                        committal (again, Saturn: paying a penalty, confinement for a crime).


                        Acubens: "activity, malevolence, poison" (Robson). I remember at the
                        time of the murders there was discussion of how fundamentalist
                        Christianity tends to foster this sort of thing, not only because
                        unstable people are attracted to it, but by skewing perceptions of
                        people in the milieu so nobody sees warning signs that most
                        non-fundamentalists would pick up on.



                        Mark A. Holmes
                      • Trishmare7@aol.com
                        In a message dated 6/2/2007 3:48:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mahtezcatpoc@yahoo.com writes: Dallas is kind of far away, and Tyler has its own chart; it was
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 6, 2007
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                          In a message dated 6/2/2007 3:48:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mahtezcatpoc@... writes:
                          Dallas is kind of far away, and Tyler has its own chart; it was
                          incorporated January 29, 1850.
                          Thanks for the incorporation data for Tyler and Plano Mark! 
                           
                          Trish




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