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Fixed star alignments (December 10, 2006) somewhat off topic

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  • msbhavens1
    Actually in Warren Jeffs case it is really about child molesting and it has nothing to do with the authorities out there, it is an FBI case directly, no
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 11, 2006
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      Actually in Warren Jeffs case it is really about child molesting and
      it has nothing to do with the authorities out there, it is an FBI
      case directly, no intervening authority.

      I think that telling adults what kind of relationships they can have
      will always bit you on the backside, adults will have the
      relationships they choose. However, Children really ought to be
      allowed to grow up and make teir own decision on such issues, not
      have a lifestyle thrust upon them. well opinion there. I have too
      many friends who lead odd lifestyles to make summary judgement on
      anything other than the child abuse. Which is what you have in the
      case of that group, in two manners. One, stealing of childhood from
      young women by forcing them into marriage. Not to mention there are
      a number of men who dont think that sex with a 12-16 year old girl
      is child molesting, which in itself is pretty sick. and two the
      abandonment of teenage boys from 13-17 years of age in order to
      reduce the availability of men for women to choose from for
      relationships. the states and town surrounding that cult have about
      had it with the child abandonment issue.

      I suspect that the answer to the problem lay with the abandoned
      young men and backlash is always a problem. But cultivating those
      young men is definitely one way to turn that lifestyle on its head.

      MissB


      >
      > Warren Jeffs is facing justice, but dismantling his
      > little cult won't be that simple; there was an article
      > recently on how the mainly Mormon authorities in Utah
      > have taken an approach where they go after egregious
      > offenders like Jeffs or prosecute polygamists on other
      > offenses like child molestation or rape (when they
      > take underage wives) rather than taking on polygamy
      > head-on, which, actually, is a lot harder to do, the
      > lifestyle is so secretive and entrenched out there and
      > people are loath to rip apart families unless it's
      > absolutely necessary.
      >
      >
      > Mark A. Holmes
      >
      >
      >
      >
      _____________________________________________________________________
      _______________
      > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com.
      Try it now.
      >
    • Mark Andrew Holmes
      ... No, the FBI arrested him after a Nevada state trooper pulled the car he was in over because its license plate wasn t clearly legible and he made the
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 11, 2006
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        --- msbhavens1 <msbhavens1@...> wrote:

        >
        > Actually in Warren Jeffs case it is really about
        > child molesting and
        > it has nothing to do with the authorities out there,
        > it is an FBI
        > case directly, no intervening authority.

        No, the FBI arrested him after a Nevada state trooper
        pulled the car he was in over because its license
        plate wasn't clearly legible and he made the trooper
        suspicious. The FBI is involved in the case, that's
        true, but he is indeed facing state charges. The state
        of Utah, county of Washington (where Hildale is) has
        been holding hearings on his case, and he's also
        facing charges in Arizona (Mohave County, where
        Colorado City is).

        http://www.courttv.com/news/hildale/docs/jeffs_utahbail.html

        http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6523761


        In the early 1950s the governor of Arizona had
        Colorado City (which was then known as Short Creek)
        raided and the polygamists' kids put into foster care.
        Basically, all that did was generate a backlash
        against the law, make people think the Arizona
        authorities were ripping families apart unjustly. So
        this time the authorities took great pains not to come
        across as heavy-handed.

        Cat's Tail (44 Hydrae) aligned with transiting South
        Node: If you want to grab and take hold of a cat, you
        don't just grab hold of its tail (meaning: Act
        carefully so what you do, however justified it might
        be, doesn't generate a backlash).

        >
        > I think that telling adults what kind of
        > relationships they can have
        > will always bit you on the backside, adults will
        > have the
        > relationships they choose. However, Children really
        > ought to be
        > allowed to grow up and make teir own decision on
        > such issues, not
        > have a lifestyle thrust upon them. well opinion
        > there. I have too
        > many friends who lead odd lifestyles to make summary
        > judgement on
        > anything other than the child abuse. Which is what
        > you have in the
        > case of that group, in two manners. One, stealing of
        > childhood from
        > young women by forcing them into marriage. Not to
        > mention there are
        > a number of men who dont think that sex with a 12-16
        > year old girl
        > is child molesting, which in itself is pretty sick.


        These girls were raised to think their thoughts and
        feelings didn't matter because they were female, and
        then they get told to marry men they often barely know
        and may not even like and have one baby after another
        (and I understand the infant mortality rate is pretty
        high in Colorado City-Hildale).


        > and two the
        > abandonment of teenage boys from 13-17 years of age
        > in order to
        > reduce the availability of men for women to choose
        > from for
        > relationships. the states and town surrounding that
        > cult have about
        > had it with the child abandonment issue.


        Jeffs did the St. George area no favors by dumping his
        unwanted young men and teenage boys on it.



        >
        > I suspect that the answer to the problem lay with
        > the abandoned
        > young men and backlash is always a problem. But
        > cultivating those
        > young men is definitely one way to turn that
        > lifestyle on its head.
        >


        Mmmm...We've been hearing about these girls for years,
        and then we hear about what people around St. George,
        Utah call The Lost Boys just before everything starts
        coming together.


        Mark A. Holmes


        >
        >
        > >
        > > Warren Jeffs is facing justice, but dismantling
        > his
        > > little cult won't be that simple; there was an
        > article
        > > recently on how the mainly Mormon authorities in
        > Utah
        > > have taken an approach where they go after
        > egregious
        > > offenders like Jeffs or prosecute polygamists on
        > other
        > > offenses like child molestation or rape (when they
        > > take underage wives) rather than taking on
        > polygamy
        > > head-on, which, actually, is a lot harder to do,
        > the
        > > lifestyle is so secretive and entrenched out there
        > and
        > > people are loath to rip apart families unless it's
        > > absolutely necessary.




        ____________________________________________________________________________________
        Yahoo! Music Unlimited
        Access over 1 million songs.
        http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
      • msbhavens1
        I understand how he was found, but it is and always has been an FBI case. The state charges are follow on, not primary. WJ was on the FBI s most wanted list
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 11, 2006
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          I understand how he was found, but it is and always has been an FBI
          case. The state charges are follow on, not primary. WJ was on the
          FBI's most wanted list for quite a while. This is because he crossed
          state lines with minors for unlawful purposes. Trooper would
          probably not even have arrested him if he hadn't opened his mouth
          and admitted he was wanted. He wasn't the driver after all.
          MissB

          --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, Mark Andrew Holmes
          <mahtezcatpoc@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > --- msbhavens1 <msbhavens1@...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > Actually in Warren Jeffs case it is really about
          > > child molesting and
          > > it has nothing to do with the authorities out there,
          > > it is an FBI
          > > case directly, no intervening authority.
          >
          > No, the FBI arrested him after a Nevada state trooper
          > pulled the car he was in over because its license
          > plate wasn't clearly legible and he made the trooper
          > suspicious. The FBI is involved in the case, that's
          > true, but he is indeed facing state charges. The state
          > of Utah, county of Washington (where Hildale is) has
          > been holding hearings on his case, and he's also
          > facing charges in Arizona (Mohave County, where
          > Colorado City is).
          >
          > http://www.courttv.com/news/hildale/docs/jeffs_utahbail.html
          >
          > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6523761
          >
          >
          > In the early 1950s the governor of Arizona had
          > Colorado City (which was then known as Short Creek)
          > raided and the polygamists' kids put into foster care.
          > Basically, all that did was generate a backlash
          > against the law, make people think the Arizona
          > authorities were ripping families apart unjustly. So
          > this time the authorities took great pains not to come
          > across as heavy-handed.
          >
          > Cat's Tail (44 Hydrae) aligned with transiting South
          > Node: If you want to grab and take hold of a cat, you
          > don't just grab hold of its tail (meaning: Act
          > carefully so what you do, however justified it might
          > be, doesn't generate a backlash).
          >
          > >
          > > I think that telling adults what kind of
          > > relationships they can have
          > > will always bit you on the backside, adults will
          > > have the
          > > relationships they choose. However, Children really
          > > ought to be
          > > allowed to grow up and make teir own decision on
          > > such issues, not
          > > have a lifestyle thrust upon them. well opinion
          > > there. I have too
          > > many friends who lead odd lifestyles to make summary
          > > judgement on
          > > anything other than the child abuse. Which is what
          > > you have in the
          > > case of that group, in two manners. One, stealing of
          > > childhood from
          > > young women by forcing them into marriage. Not to
          > > mention there are
          > > a number of men who dont think that sex with a 12-16
          > > year old girl
          > > is child molesting, which in itself is pretty sick.
          >
          >
          > These girls were raised to think their thoughts and
          > feelings didn't matter because they were female, and
          > then they get told to marry men they often barely know
          > and may not even like and have one baby after another
          > (and I understand the infant mortality rate is pretty
          > high in Colorado City-Hildale).
          >
          >
          > > and two the
          > > abandonment of teenage boys from 13-17 years of age
          > > in order to
          > > reduce the availability of men for women to choose
          > > from for
          > > relationships. the states and town surrounding that
          > > cult have about
          > > had it with the child abandonment issue.
          >
          >
          > Jeffs did the St. George area no favors by dumping his
          > unwanted young men and teenage boys on it.
          >
          >
          >
          > >
          > > I suspect that the answer to the problem lay with
          > > the abandoned
          > > young men and backlash is always a problem. But
          > > cultivating those
          > > young men is definitely one way to turn that
          > > lifestyle on its head.
          > >
          >
          >
          > Mmmm...We've been hearing about these girls for years,
          > and then we hear about what people around St. George,
          > Utah call The Lost Boys just before everything starts
          > coming together.
          >
          >
          > Mark A. Holmes
          >
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > >
          > > > Warren Jeffs is facing justice, but dismantling
          > > his
          > > > little cult won't be that simple; there was an
          > > article
          > > > recently on how the mainly Mormon authorities in
          > > Utah
          > > > have taken an approach where they go after
          > > egregious
          > > > offenders like Jeffs or prosecute polygamists on
          > > other
          > > > offenses like child molestation or rape (when they
          > > > take underage wives) rather than taking on
          > > polygamy
          > > > head-on, which, actually, is a lot harder to do,
          > > the
          > > > lifestyle is so secretive and entrenched out there
          > > and
          > > > people are loath to rip apart families unless it's
          > > > absolutely necessary.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          _____________________________________________________________________
          _______________
          > Yahoo! Music Unlimited
          > Access over 1 million songs.
          > http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
          >
        • msbhavens1
          Also I have to say WJ facing justice isnt nearly as important as educating and re-educating the kids that have been screwed here. sigh... well my two cents
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 11, 2006
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            Also I have to say WJ facing justice isnt' nearly as important as
            educating and re-educating the kids that have been screwed here.
            sigh... well my two cents anyway. MissB

            --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, Mark Andrew Holmes
            <mahtezcatpoc@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > --- msbhavens1 <msbhavens1@...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > Actually in Warren Jeffs case it is really about
            > > child molesting and
            > > it has nothing to do with the authorities out there,
            > > it is an FBI
            > > case directly, no intervening authority.
            >
            > No, the FBI arrested him after a Nevada state trooper
            > pulled the car he was in over because its license
            > plate wasn't clearly legible and he made the trooper
            > suspicious. The FBI is involved in the case, that's
            > true, but he is indeed facing state charges. The state
            > of Utah, county of Washington (where Hildale is) has
            > been holding hearings on his case, and he's also
            > facing charges in Arizona (Mohave County, where
            > Colorado City is).
            >
            > http://www.courttv.com/news/hildale/docs/jeffs_utahbail.html
            >
            > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6523761
            >
            >
            > In the early 1950s the governor of Arizona had
            > Colorado City (which was then known as Short Creek)
            > raided and the polygamists' kids put into foster care.
            > Basically, all that did was generate a backlash
            > against the law, make people think the Arizona
            > authorities were ripping families apart unjustly. So
            > this time the authorities took great pains not to come
            > across as heavy-handed.
            >
            > Cat's Tail (44 Hydrae) aligned with transiting South
            > Node: If you want to grab and take hold of a cat, you
            > don't just grab hold of its tail (meaning: Act
            > carefully so what you do, however justified it might
            > be, doesn't generate a backlash).
            >
            > >
            > > I think that telling adults what kind of
            > > relationships they can have
            > > will always bit you on the backside, adults will
            > > have the
            > > relationships they choose. However, Children really
            > > ought to be
            > > allowed to grow up and make teir own decision on
            > > such issues, not
            > > have a lifestyle thrust upon them. well opinion
            > > there. I have too
            > > many friends who lead odd lifestyles to make summary
            > > judgement on
            > > anything other than the child abuse. Which is what
            > > you have in the
            > > case of that group, in two manners. One, stealing of
            > > childhood from
            > > young women by forcing them into marriage. Not to
            > > mention there are
            > > a number of men who dont think that sex with a 12-16
            > > year old girl
            > > is child molesting, which in itself is pretty sick.
            >
            >
            > These girls were raised to think their thoughts and
            > feelings didn't matter because they were female, and
            > then they get told to marry men they often barely know
            > and may not even like and have one baby after another
            > (and I understand the infant mortality rate is pretty
            > high in Colorado City-Hildale).
            >
            >
            > > and two the
            > > abandonment of teenage boys from 13-17 years of age
            > > in order to
            > > reduce the availability of men for women to choose
            > > from for
            > > relationships. the states and town surrounding that
            > > cult have about
            > > had it with the child abandonment issue.
            >
            >
            > Jeffs did the St. George area no favors by dumping his
            > unwanted young men and teenage boys on it.
            >
            >
            >
            > >
            > > I suspect that the answer to the problem lay with
            > > the abandoned
            > > young men and backlash is always a problem. But
            > > cultivating those
            > > young men is definitely one way to turn that
            > > lifestyle on its head.
            > >
            >
            >
            > Mmmm...We've been hearing about these girls for years,
            > and then we hear about what people around St. George,
            > Utah call The Lost Boys just before everything starts
            > coming together.
            >
            >
            > Mark A. Holmes
            >
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > >
            > > > Warren Jeffs is facing justice, but dismantling
            > > his
            > > > little cult won't be that simple; there was an
            > > article
            > > > recently on how the mainly Mormon authorities in
            > > Utah
            > > > have taken an approach where they go after
            > > egregious
            > > > offenders like Jeffs or prosecute polygamists on
            > > other
            > > > offenses like child molestation or rape (when they
            > > > take underage wives) rather than taking on
            > > polygamy
            > > > head-on, which, actually, is a lot harder to do,
            > > the
            > > > lifestyle is so secretive and entrenched out there
            > > and
            > > > people are loath to rip apart families unless it's
            > > > absolutely necessary.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            _______________
            > Yahoo! Music Unlimited
            > Access over 1 million songs.
            > http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
            >
          • mahtezcatpoc
            ... FBI ... http://www.fbi.gov/page2/may06/jeffs050606.htm WJ was on the ... crossed ... http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Aug-30-Wed-
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 14, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, "msbhavens1" <msbhavens1@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > I understand how he was found, but it is and always has been an
              FBI
              > case. The state charges are follow on, not primary.


              http://www.fbi.gov/page2/may06/jeffs050606.htm




              WJ was on the
              > FBI's most wanted list for quite a while. This is because he
              crossed
              > state lines with minors for unlawful purposes. Trooper would
              > probably not even have arrested him if he hadn't opened his mouth
              > and admitted he was wanted. He wasn't the driver after all.
              > MissB


              http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Aug-30-Wed-
              2006/news/9337137.html


              The point is, this is a case in the news where care must be (and has
              been) taken to avoid a backlash (Cat's Tail?).


              Mark A. Holmes



              >
              > --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, Mark Andrew Holmes
              > <mahtezcatpoc@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > --- msbhavens1 <msbhavens1@> wrote:
              > >
              > > >
              > > > Actually in Warren Jeffs case it is really about
              > > > child molesting and
              > > > it has nothing to do with the authorities out there,
              > > > it is an FBI
              > > > case directly, no intervening authority.
              > >
              > > No, the FBI arrested him after a Nevada state trooper
              > > pulled the car he was in over because its license
              > > plate wasn't clearly legible and he made the trooper
              > > suspicious. The FBI is involved in the case, that's
              > > true, but he is indeed facing state charges. The state
              > > of Utah, county of Washington (where Hildale is) has
              > > been holding hearings on his case, and he's also
              > > facing charges in Arizona (Mohave County, where
              > > Colorado City is).
              > >
              > > http://www.courttv.com/news/hildale/docs/jeffs_utahbail.html
              > >
              > > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6523761
              > >
              > >
              > > In the early 1950s the governor of Arizona had
              > > Colorado City (which was then known as Short Creek)
              > > raided and the polygamists' kids put into foster care.
              > > Basically, all that did was generate a backlash
              > > against the law, make people think the Arizona
              > > authorities were ripping families apart unjustly. So
              > > this time the authorities took great pains not to come
              > > across as heavy-handed.
              > >
              > > Cat's Tail (44 Hydrae) aligned with transiting South
              > > Node: If you want to grab and take hold of a cat, you
              > > don't just grab hold of its tail (meaning: Act
              > > carefully so what you do, however justified it might
              > > be, doesn't generate a backlash).
              > >
              > > >
              > > > I think that telling adults what kind of
              > > > relationships they can have
              > > > will always bit you on the backside, adults will
              > > > have the
              > > > relationships they choose. However, Children really
              > > > ought to be
              > > > allowed to grow up and make teir own decision on
              > > > such issues, not
              > > > have a lifestyle thrust upon them. well opinion
              > > > there. I have too
              > > > many friends who lead odd lifestyles to make summary
              > > > judgement on
              > > > anything other than the child abuse. Which is what
              > > > you have in the
              > > > case of that group, in two manners. One, stealing of
              > > > childhood from
              > > > young women by forcing them into marriage. Not to
              > > > mention there are
              > > > a number of men who dont think that sex with a 12-16
              > > > year old girl
              > > > is child molesting, which in itself is pretty sick.
              > >
              > >
              > > These girls were raised to think their thoughts and
              > > feelings didn't matter because they were female, and
              > > then they get told to marry men they often barely know
              > > and may not even like and have one baby after another
              > > (and I understand the infant mortality rate is pretty
              > > high in Colorado City-Hildale).
              > >
              > >
              > > > and two the
              > > > abandonment of teenage boys from 13-17 years of age
              > > > in order to
              > > > reduce the availability of men for women to choose
              > > > from for
              > > > relationships. the states and town surrounding that
              > > > cult have about
              > > > had it with the child abandonment issue.
              > >
              > >
              > > Jeffs did the St. George area no favors by dumping his
              > > unwanted young men and teenage boys on it.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > >
              > > > I suspect that the answer to the problem lay with
              > > > the abandoned
              > > > young men and backlash is always a problem. But
              > > > cultivating those
              > > > young men is definitely one way to turn that
              > > > lifestyle on its head.
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Mmmm...We've been hearing about these girls for years,
              > > and then we hear about what people around St. George,
              > > Utah call The Lost Boys just before everything starts
              > > coming together.
              > >
              > >
              > > Mark A. Holmes
              > >
              > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Warren Jeffs is facing justice, but dismantling
              > > > his
              > > > > little cult won't be that simple; there was an
              > > > article
              > > > > recently on how the mainly Mormon authorities in
              > > > Utah
              > > > > have taken an approach where they go after
              > > > egregious
              > > > > offenders like Jeffs or prosecute polygamists on
              > > > other
              > > > > offenses like child molestation or rape (when they
              > > > > take underage wives) rather than taking on
              > > > polygamy
              > > > > head-on, which, actually, is a lot harder to do,
              > > > the
              > > > > lifestyle is so secretive and entrenched out there
              > > > and
              > > > > people are loath to rip apart families unless it's
              > > > > absolutely necessary.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              _____________________________________________________________________
              > _______________
              > > Yahoo! Music Unlimited
              > > Access over 1 million songs.
              > > http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
              > >
              >
            • msbhavens1
              I was thinking it was more that his arrest was the BAcklash? He s been getting away with his obscene behavior for some time, now the cats tail is snapping
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 14, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                I was thinking it was more that his arrest was the BAcklash? He's
                been getting away with his obscene behavior for some time, now the
                cats tail is snapping back? I'm rather expecting a sting from the
                scorpions tail here at some point as well. if not an outright
                killing. He reminds me of the kind of case where assassination is
                NOT unexpected, so they definitely have extra detail on his case,
                when moving from custody center to courthouse, but I will be
                interested to see how it plays out. Wonder if he's found a friend
                in the pokey as yet. ;-) not the kind of person I"d like to deal
                with. MissB


                --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, "mahtezcatpoc"
                <mahtezcatpoc@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, "msbhavens1" <msbhavens1@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > I understand how he was found, but it is and always has been an
                > FBI
                > > case. The state charges are follow on, not primary.
                >
                >
                > http://www.fbi.gov/page2/may06/jeffs050606.htm
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > WJ was on the
                > > FBI's most wanted list for quite a while. This is because he
                > crossed
                > > state lines with minors for unlawful purposes. Trooper would
                > > probably not even have arrested him if he hadn't opened his
                mouth
                > > and admitted he was wanted. He wasn't the driver after all.
                > > MissB
                >
                >
                > http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Aug-30-Wed-
                > 2006/news/9337137.html
                >
                >
                > The point is, this is a case in the news where care must be (and
                has
                > been) taken to avoid a backlash (Cat's Tail?).
                >
                >
                > Mark A. Holmes
                >
                >
                >
                > >
                > > --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, Mark Andrew Holmes
                > > <mahtezcatpoc@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- msbhavens1 <msbhavens1@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Actually in Warren Jeffs case it is really about
                > > > > child molesting and
                > > > > it has nothing to do with the authorities out there,
                > > > > it is an FBI
                > > > > case directly, no intervening authority.
                > > >
                > > > No, the FBI arrested him after a Nevada state trooper
                > > > pulled the car he was in over because its license
                > > > plate wasn't clearly legible and he made the trooper
                > > > suspicious. The FBI is involved in the case, that's
                > > > true, but he is indeed facing state charges. The state
                > > > of Utah, county of Washington (where Hildale is) has
                > > > been holding hearings on his case, and he's also
                > > > facing charges in Arizona (Mohave County, where
                > > > Colorado City is).
                > > >
                > > > http://www.courttv.com/news/hildale/docs/jeffs_utahbail.html
                > > >
                > > > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6523761
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > In the early 1950s the governor of Arizona had
                > > > Colorado City (which was then known as Short Creek)
                > > > raided and the polygamists' kids put into foster care.
                > > > Basically, all that did was generate a backlash
                > > > against the law, make people think the Arizona
                > > > authorities were ripping families apart unjustly. So
                > > > this time the authorities took great pains not to come
                > > > across as heavy-handed.
                > > >
                > > > Cat's Tail (44 Hydrae) aligned with transiting South
                > > > Node: If you want to grab and take hold of a cat, you
                > > > don't just grab hold of its tail (meaning: Act
                > > > carefully so what you do, however justified it might
                > > > be, doesn't generate a backlash).
                > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > I think that telling adults what kind of
                > > > > relationships they can have
                > > > > will always bit you on the backside, adults will
                > > > > have the
                > > > > relationships they choose. However, Children really
                > > > > ought to be
                > > > > allowed to grow up and make teir own decision on
                > > > > such issues, not
                > > > > have a lifestyle thrust upon them. well opinion
                > > > > there. I have too
                > > > > many friends who lead odd lifestyles to make summary
                > > > > judgement on
                > > > > anything other than the child abuse. Which is what
                > > > > you have in the
                > > > > case of that group, in two manners. One, stealing of
                > > > > childhood from
                > > > > young women by forcing them into marriage. Not to
                > > > > mention there are
                > > > > a number of men who dont think that sex with a 12-16
                > > > > year old girl
                > > > > is child molesting, which in itself is pretty sick.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > These girls were raised to think their thoughts and
                > > > feelings didn't matter because they were female, and
                > > > then they get told to marry men they often barely know
                > > > and may not even like and have one baby after another
                > > > (and I understand the infant mortality rate is pretty
                > > > high in Colorado City-Hildale).
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > > and two the
                > > > > abandonment of teenage boys from 13-17 years of age
                > > > > in order to
                > > > > reduce the availability of men for women to choose
                > > > > from for
                > > > > relationships. the states and town surrounding that
                > > > > cult have about
                > > > > had it with the child abandonment issue.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Jeffs did the St. George area no favors by dumping his
                > > > unwanted young men and teenage boys on it.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > I suspect that the answer to the problem lay with
                > > > > the abandoned
                > > > > young men and backlash is always a problem. But
                > > > > cultivating those
                > > > > young men is definitely one way to turn that
                > > > > lifestyle on its head.
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Mmmm...We've been hearing about these girls for years,
                > > > and then we hear about what people around St. George,
                > > > Utah call The Lost Boys just before everything starts
                > > > coming together.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Mark A. Holmes
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Warren Jeffs is facing justice, but dismantling
                > > > > his
                > > > > > little cult won't be that simple; there was an
                > > > > article
                > > > > > recently on how the mainly Mormon authorities in
                > > > > Utah
                > > > > > have taken an approach where they go after
                > > > > egregious
                > > > > > offenders like Jeffs or prosecute polygamists on
                > > > > other
                > > > > > offenses like child molestation or rape (when they
                > > > > > take underage wives) rather than taking on
                > > > > polygamy
                > > > > > head-on, which, actually, is a lot harder to do,
                > > > > the
                > > > > > lifestyle is so secretive and entrenched out there
                > > > > and
                > > > > > people are loath to rip apart families unless it's
                > > > > > absolutely necessary.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
                _____________________________________________________________________
                > > _______________
                > > > Yahoo! Music Unlimited
                > > > Access over 1 million songs.
                > > > http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • mahtezcatpoc
                ... Yeah, or you could say that Warren Jeffs has been mistreating the cat and now he s been bitten and scratched pretty good. (BTW, cats in the news today: CC,
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 14, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, "msbhavens1" <msbhavens1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I was thinking it was more that his arrest was the BAcklash? He's
                  > been getting away with his obscene behavior for some time, now the
                  > cats tail is snapping back?

                  Yeah, or you could say that Warren Jeffs has been mistreating the cat
                  and now he's been bitten and scratched pretty good.

                  (BTW, cats in the news today: CC, the first cloned cat, is now a
                  "meowmie." She's had kittens.)


                  I'm rather expecting a sting from the
                  > scorpions tail here at some point as well.


                  Yeah, I guess you've noticed all the alignments of Pluto with stars
                  like Shaula, Lesath, and Sargas in that area. Or Grumium, on the
                  Dragon's beard (been given a yank).


                  if not an outright
                  > killing. He reminds me of the kind of case where assassination is
                  > NOT unexpected, so they definitely have extra detail on his case,
                  > when moving from custody center to courthouse, but I will be
                  > interested to see how it plays out. Wonder if he's found a friend
                  > in the pokey as yet. ;-) not the kind of person I"d like to deal
                  > with. MissB


                  I wonder if Jeffs is going to end up rooming with Brian Mitchell at
                  the Utah state hospital in Provo. Jeffs isn't the florid psychotic
                  Mitchell is, but then again, he's an evident, accused if not yet
                  convicted sex offender who's presided over and nurtured this sick
                  scene out in the southern Utah desert for years and years. I find it
                  interesting speculation, anyway. It would be interesting to listen in
                  on the theological discussions these two could have. <g>


                  Mark A. Holmes




                  >
                  >
                  > --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, "mahtezcatpoc"
                  > <mahtezcatpoc@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, "msbhavens1" <msbhavens1@>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > I understand how he was found, but it is and always has been an
                  > > FBI
                  > > > case. The state charges are follow on, not primary.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > http://www.fbi.gov/page2/may06/jeffs050606.htm
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > WJ was on the
                  > > > FBI's most wanted list for quite a while. This is because he
                  > > crossed
                  > > > state lines with minors for unlawful purposes. Trooper would
                  > > > probably not even have arrested him if he hadn't opened his
                  > mouth
                  > > > and admitted he was wanted. He wasn't the driver after all.
                  > > > MissB
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Aug-30-Wed-
                  > > 2006/news/9337137.html
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > The point is, this is a case in the news where care must be (and
                  > has
                  > > been) taken to avoid a backlash (Cat's Tail?).
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Mark A. Holmes
                • mahtezcatpoc
                  ... ? ... ? ... On Ophiuchus left hand (more like his left wrist?) ... extreme malevolence, mercilessness, fiendishness, repulsiveness, malice, theft, crime,
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 23, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, Mark Andrew Holmes
                    <mahtezcatpoc@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > As of noon CST.
                    >
                    >




                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Jupiter
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > *Zodet's Planetary (ESO:135-PN4 Circini)

                    ?


                    >
                    > *Circinus Pulsar (PSR B1509-58 Circini)


                    ?


                    >
                    > *Yed Posterior (Epsilon Ophiuchi)


                    On Ophiuchus' left hand (more like his left wrist?)


                    >
                    > *Acrab (Beta Scorpii)


                    "extreme malevolence, mercilessness, fiendishness, repulsiveness,
                    malice, theft, crime, pestilence and contagious disease." (Robson)


                    >
                    > Vrischika (Pi Scorpii)


                    Sanskrit = scorpion


                    >
                    > *Fang (Rho Scorpii)

                    Chinese = room (I think Rho Scorpii, which is on the Scorpion's left
                    claw along with Vrischika [?] is part of this Chinese lunar mansion)



                    >
                    > *Jabhat al Akrab (Omega-1 Scorpii)


                    Arabic = the scorpion's forehead


                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Saturn
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Cat's Eye Nebula (NGC 6543 Draconis)
                    >
                    > Ukdah (Tau-1 Hydrae)
                    >
                    > Peanut Nebula of Leo (CW Leonis)
                    >
                    > Lucida Pictoris (Alpha Pictoris)
                    >
                    > Malus (Gamma Pyxidis; marking the obsolete
                    > constellation Malus the Mast of the Ship Argo)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Uranus
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Hydria (Eta Aquarii)
                    >
                    > Ekchusis (Lambda Aquarii)
                    >
                    > Nova Cygni 1992 (cataclysmic variable)
                    >
                    > Scovil's Object (Q1991/107 Cygni)
                    >
                    > WX Hydri
                    >
                    > VY Sculptoris (cataclysmic variables aka novae)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Neptune
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Sualocin (Alpha Delphini)

                    more secretiveness?


                    >
                    > Aldhanab (Gamma Gruis)
                    >
                    > Ghost-Ring Nebula (IC 5148/5150 Gruis)
                    >
                    > EF Tucanae (cataclysmic variable)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Pluto
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Tseen Yin (Delta Arae)
                    >
                    > Lucida Mensae (Alpha Mensae)
                    >
                    > Kelb Alrai (Beta Ophiuchi)
                    >
                    > Iron Star (XX Ophiuchi)
                    >
                    > *Pistol Star (V4647 Sagittarii; at the center of the
                    > Pistol Nebula; one of the brightest stars known)


                    Having to do with guns or with gun violence?


                    >
                    > *Silkworm Nebula (CRL 5385 Sagittarii)


                    Silk, textile production, something developing?


                    >
                    > Garden-Sprinkler Nebula (Henize 3-1475 Sagittarii)
                    >
                    > *Galactic Center (Sag A* Sagittarii)


                    creativity, inspiration


                    >
                    > Girtab (Kappa Scorpii)
                    >
                    > Hyman's Burper (GCRT J1745-3009 Scorpii)
                    >
                    > Aculeus (M-6 Scorpii, the Butterfly Nebula)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Ceres
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > *Sadalsuud (Beta Aquarii)

                    "trouble and disgrace" (Robson)


                    >
                    > *Bunda (Xi Aquarii)

                    in the Water Carrier's shoulder


                    >
                    > *Deneb Algedi (Delta Capricorni)


                    "beneficence and destructiveness, sorrow and happiness, and life and
                    death." (Robson)


                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Pallas
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > *Sung (Delta Aquilae)


                    Chinese = the Sung or Song Dynasty

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_Dynasty


                    >
                    > *Peacock (Alpha Pavonis)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Juno
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > *Pereira's Star (V1494 Aquilae, a moderately bright
                    > nova discovered in 1999 by Portuguese amateur
                    > astronomer Alfredo Pereira)
                    >
                    > (I have "bad experiences, embittering, repudiation,
                    > grievances" for this one)
                    >
                    > *Seginus (Gamma Bootis)

                    "said to give a subtle mind, shamelessness, and loss through friends
                    and companions." (Robson)


                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Vesta
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > *Princeps (Delta Bootis)


                    "gives a keen, studious and profound mind with the ability for
                    research" (Robson)


                    >
                    > *Al Hakim (Iota Centauri)


                    Arabic = the wise


                    >
                    > *Jellyfish Nebula (KFR 1 Crucis)
                    >

                    being spineless, unassertive or irresolute



                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Chiron
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > *Youe (Psi Capricorni)
                    >
                    > *Patchick's Planetary (IRAS 19450+2922 Cygni, named
                    > for its discoverer, Dana Patchick)
                    >
                    > Tarantula Nebula (30 Doradus)
                    >
                    > LU Vulpeculae
                    >
                    > LV Vulpeculae (cataclysmic variables)
                    >
                    > Cloverleaf Nebula (IRAS 19477+2401 Vulpeculae)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > North Node
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > *SS Cygni (cataclysmic variable)


                    hissing?


                    >
                    > Simmah (Gamma Piscium)

                    Simmah = a Mesopotamian fish goddess


                    >
                    > Solarium (Beta Reticuli; marks the obsolete
                    > constellation Solarium the Sundial)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > South Node
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > AM Canum Venaticorum (cataclysmic variable)
                    >
                    > *The Box (NGC 4169 Comae Berenices, a star cluster
                    > near Gamma Comae Berenices)


                    in a box


                    >
                    > *Cat's Tail (44 Hydrae; part of the obsolete
                    > constellation Felis the Cat: marks the Cat's tail)
                    >
                    > Denebola (Beta Leonis)
                    >


                    "gives swift judgment, despair, regrets, public disgrace, misfortune
                    from nature's elements, happiness turned to anger, and makes the
                    native noble, daring, self-controlled, generous and busy with other
                    people's affairs." (Robson)


                    "this star indicates in some degree being 'out of step' or being out
                    of the mainstream of thought, not conforming, by living on the
                    fringe." (Bernadette Brady, *Brady's Book of Fixed Stars* [p. 266])


                    two cat's tails (a cat and a lion)



                    More later.


                    Mark A. Holmes
                  • mahtezcatpoc
                    ... The ginned-up war on Christmas ? Threatened fractures within the Episcopal Church? Political violence in the Palestinian territories? ... his right
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 25, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, "mahtezcatpoc"
                      <mahtezcatpoc@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, Mark Andrew Holmes
                      > <mahtezcatpoc@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > As of noon CST.
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Jupiter
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > *Zodet's Planetary (ESO:135-PN4 Circini)
                      >
                      > ?
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > *Circinus Pulsar (PSR B1509-58 Circini)
                      >
                      >
                      > ?
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > --->*Yed Posterior (Epsilon Ophiuchi)
                      >
                      >
                      > On Ophiuchus' left hand (more like his left wrist?)
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > --->*Acrab (Beta Scorpii)
                      >
                      >
                      > "extreme malevolence, mercilessness, fiendishness, repulsiveness,
                      > malice, theft, crime, pestilence and contagious disease." (Robson)
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > --->Vrischika (Pi Scorpii)
                      >
                      >
                      > Sanskrit = scorpion
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > --->*Fang (Rho Scorpii)
                      >
                      > Chinese = room (I think Rho Scorpii, which is on the Scorpion's left
                      > claw along with Vrischika [?] is part of this Chinese lunar mansion)
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > --->*Jabhat al Akrab (Omega-1 Scorpii)
                      >
                      >
                      > Arabic = the scorpion's forehead



                      The ginned-up "war on Christmas"? Threatened fractures within the
                      Episcopal Church? Political violence in the Palestinian territories?


                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Saturn
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Cat's Eye Nebula (NGC 6543 Draconis)
                      > >
                      > > Ukdah (Tau-1 Hydrae)
                      > >
                      > > Peanut Nebula of Leo (CW Leonis)
                      > >
                      > > Lucida Pictoris (Alpha Pictoris)
                      > >
                      > > Malus (Gamma Pyxidis; marking the obsolete
                      > > constellation Malus the Mast of the Ship Argo)
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Uranus
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hydria (Eta Aquarii)
                      > >
                      > > Ekchusis (Lambda Aquarii)
                      > >
                      > > Nova Cygni 1992 (cataclysmic variable)
                      > >
                      > > Scovil's Object (Q1991/107 Cygni)
                      > >
                      > > WX Hydri
                      > >
                      > > VY Sculptoris (cataclysmic variables aka novae)
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Neptune
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Sualocin (Alpha Delphini)
                      >
                      > more secretiveness?
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Aldhanab (Gamma Gruis)
                      > >
                      > > Ghost-Ring Nebula (IC 5148/5150 Gruis)
                      > >
                      > > EF Tucanae (cataclysmic variable)
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Pluto
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Tseen Yin (Delta Arae)
                      > >
                      > > Lucida Mensae (Alpha Mensae)
                      > >
                      > > Kelb Alrai (Beta Ophiuchi)
                      > >
                      > > Iron Star (XX Ophiuchi)
                      > >
                      > > *Pistol Star (V4647 Sagittarii; at the center of the
                      > > Pistol Nebula; one of the brightest stars known)
                      >
                      >
                      > Having to do with guns or with gun violence?
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > *Silkworm Nebula (CRL 5385 Sagittarii)
                      >
                      >
                      > Silk, textile production, something developing?
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Garden-Sprinkler Nebula (Henize 3-1475 Sagittarii)
                      > >
                      > > *Galactic Center (Sag A* Sagittarii)
                      >
                      >
                      > creativity, inspiration
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Girtab (Kappa Scorpii)
                      > >
                      > > Hyman's Burper (GCRT J1745-3009 Scorpii)
                      > >
                      > > Aculeus (M-6 Scorpii, the Butterfly Nebula)
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Ceres
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --->*Sadalsuud (Beta Aquarii)
                      >
                      > "trouble and disgrace" (Robson)
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > -->*Bunda (Xi Aquarii)
                      >
                      > in the Water Carrier's shoulder

                      his right shoulder (to do good by flooding others?)


                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > -->*Deneb Algedi (Delta Capricorni)
                      >
                      >
                      > "beneficence and destructiveness, sorrow and happiness, and life and
                      > death." (Robson)



                      the recent food-poisoning scare at Taco Bell?


                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Pallas
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > *Sung (Delta Aquilae)
                      >
                      >
                      > Chinese = the Sung or Song Dynasty
                      >
                      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_Dynasty
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > *Peacock (Alpha Pavonis)
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Juno
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > *Pereira's Star (V1494 Aquilae, a moderately bright
                      > > nova discovered in 1999 by Portuguese amateur
                      > > astronomer Alfredo Pereira)
                      > >
                      > > (I have "bad experiences, embittering, repudiation,
                      > > grievances" for this one)
                      > >
                      > > *Seginus (Gamma Bootis)
                      >
                      > "said to give a subtle mind, shamelessness, and loss through friends
                      > and companions." (Robson)
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Vesta
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > *Princeps (Delta Bootis)
                      >
                      >
                      > "gives a keen, studious and profound mind with the ability for
                      > research" (Robson)
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > *Al Hakim (Iota Centauri)
                      >
                      >
                      > Arabic = the wise
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > *Jellyfish Nebula (KFR 1 Crucis)
                      > >
                      >
                      > being spineless, unassertive or irresolute
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      somebody has a bad attitude toward the Iraq Study Group



                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Chiron
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > *Youe (Psi Capricorni)
                      > >
                      > > *Patchick's Planetary (IRAS 19450+2922 Cygni, named
                      > > for its discoverer, Dana Patchick)
                      > >
                      > > Tarantula Nebula (30 Doradus)
                      > >
                      > > LU Vulpeculae
                      > >
                      > > LV Vulpeculae (cataclysmic variables)
                      > >
                      > > Cloverleaf Nebula (IRAS 19477+2401 Vulpeculae)
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > North Node
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > *SS Cygni (cataclysmic variable)
                      >
                      >
                      > hissing?
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Simmah (Gamma Piscium)
                      >
                      > Simmah = a Mesopotamian fish goddess
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Solarium (Beta Reticuli; marks the obsolete
                      > > constellation Solarium the Sundial)
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > South Node
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > -->AM Canum Venaticorum (cataclysmic variable)
                      > >
                      > > -->*The Box (NGC 4169 Comae Berenices, a star cluster
                      > > near Gamma Comae Berenices)
                      >
                      >
                      > in a box
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > -->*Cat's Tail (44 Hydrae; part of the obsolete
                      > > constellation Felis the Cat: marks the Cat's tail)
                      > >
                      > > -->Denebola (Beta Leonis)
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > "gives swift judgment, despair, regrets, public disgrace, misfortune
                      > from nature's elements, happiness turned to anger, and makes the
                      > native noble, daring, self-controlled, generous and busy with other
                      > people's affairs." (Robson)
                      >
                      >
                      > "this star indicates in some degree being 'out of step' or being out
                      > of the mainstream of thought, not conforming, by living on the
                      > fringe." (Bernadette Brady, *Brady's Book of Fixed Stars* [p. 266])
                      >
                      >
                      > two cat's tails (a cat and a lion)



                      Preoccupation with celebrity gaffes? Harassment of religious
                      minorities/secularists in the US, Europe and elsewhere?



                      More later.


                      Mark A. Holmes
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